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fluffyfinch

Violette de Bordeaux from Dave Wilson

fluffyfinch
11 years ago

Has anyone here purchased a Violette de Bordeaux from Dave Wilson Nursery sometime in the past few years? I just picked one up yesterday and the leaves look nothing like the long, five-fingered lobes I've seen in photos. I'm sure it has FMV since the leaves are misshapen and a little blotchy. I've pretty much given up on getting anything FMV-free from a commercial grower. Perhaps the leaves will start looking normal when the tree gets bigger and stronger?

Anyway, if someone here HAS purchased a VdB from Dave Wilson, how was the resulting fruit? Is your tree vigorous and healthy despite FMV?

If anyone knows a source for FMV-free VdB, please pass the info along to me--I really appreciate it.

Comments (41)

  • ejp3
    11 years ago

    I thought I had a fmv free vdb since the plant shows absolutely no sign of it. But when I root cuttings some of them show the fmv. However every one has outgrown the disease. Mine is originally from edible landscaping.

  • sweet_lemon
    11 years ago

    I purchased a VdB from Dave Wilson this year. And I have another from EL. They both are young and just coming out of dormancy and it's too early to tell if the leaves are the same.

  • Kevin Reilly
    11 years ago

    I got one from Trees of Antiquity. Seems healthy to me, I don't know what to look for in FMV though. Attached a picture of the leaves. I think DWN is one of their suppliers , not sure if that is the source of the fig or it's their own (no tags were on it)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Trees of Antiquity Figs

  • bronxfigs: New York City/7b
    11 years ago

    Ordered a fig tree from a well known, western nursery, that ships their trees "in soil". Trees came with FMV, and the varietal identification tag was from DWN. I tossed the tree in the garbage. I was pissed! They sent a replacement tree, in full leaf when shipped...FMV again. A "reputable" nursery should have instantly recognized FMV infection, but they sent the trees to me anyway. I originally ordered a "Texas Blue Giant" and they sent me a tree, with FMV, and with a name-tag reading: "Celeste". They eventually replaced the wrong tree with the right tree, which also had FMV. So, two trees, both with FMV, both from DWN, both in the garbage. Will I order from them again? What do you think? I got my money back. The end.

    Frank

  • fluffyfinch
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Frank,

    I agree that it is definitely irksome when the wrong tree is shipped. And you'd think that nurseries would recognize FMV in their stock and try to get rid of it. Unfortunately I haven't found a commercial source that guarantees no FMV in their figs. I live in the San Diego area and had posted ads on Craigslist more than once looking for FMV-free cuttings of VdB and Black Mission but I had no responses. However, some figs handle the virus well and their crops are seemingly unaffected, so I was wondering if someone had a VdB from DWN that turned out vigorous and fruitful despite FMV.

    My tree's leaves are similar in shape to the one posted by melikeeatplants, but with a little more blotchy-ness. VdB is definitely a bit more scraggly-looking than other figs (like my nice and neat Verdone fig), but I'm hoping the fruit makes up for it. Thanks for sharing your input about DWN.

    I live on just over an acre and for now I keep my FMV carriers planted well away from my (seemingly) non-infected ones.

  • bronxfigs: New York City/7b
    11 years ago

    I remember reading a post, in the recent past, that most growers/nurseries get their fig cuttings used for propagation from just a couple of major, commercial sources. It went on to say that most cutting sources on the West-Coast are full of FMV, so most nursery stock is also infected.

    I happen to have clean, trees that show absolutely no symptoms of FMV and I want to keep it that way. That's why the infected trees went from the shipping box, right into the garbage. Yes, the nursery admitted that their trees probably had FMV, and that's why they refunded my money, including postage.

    Caveat emptor re: figs from West-Coast nurseries. Anecdotal story...just thought I'd share.

    Frank

  • centurion_
    11 years ago

    I would have taken those trees in a heartbeat.

    I have read on the other forum from experienced fig growers that few, if any fig trees are actually fmv free. Some show symptoms, many don't. Some show symptoms one year and appear fine the next, and some seem to outgrow it.

    I have trees from respected growers that have allready shown signs. I think that with fig trees, fmv is a fact of life. Your figs may appear not to have it, but a year or two down the line you may be in for a rude suprise.

    I would like to be wrong on this. But I don't think that I am.

  • kudzu9
    11 years ago

    Centurion-
    I agree with you. If I was willing to only accept fig plants and cuttings that were "guaranteed" to be FMV-free, I wouldn't have much of a collection. And there is really no way to insure that it's not present, anyway, even if there is no evidence at first.

  • bronxfigs: New York City/7b
    11 years ago

    Interesting thoughts and comments.

    Growing figs in Zone-7b is not easy on the fig trees, and the winters can be stressful. Stressed trees with FMV perform poorly. My growing season is very short, maybe three months. I have no time to waste waiting for diseased plants to do what they are supposed to do....make figs. I haven't the time or growing space to wet-nurse a sick tree. Now, if someone gave me a free tree, and it turned out to be infected with FMV, than I might try to nurse it. If my growing season was much longer, I might also try growing infected trees, but it's not, so I don't. Also, why would I risk infecting my symptom-free trees, with diseased stock?

    I paid big money for not only the fig trees, but S&H doubled the price...and I was still sold diseased trees, and not even the variety that I asked for. Yes...I was pissed. There were no provisos expressed, or, implied, when I ordered the trees either.

    In the future, my now, clean trees, may in fact show symptoms, and when they start to give me trouble, they also will be in the garbage.

    Frank

  • wisner_gw wisner
    11 years ago

    If you bring in a FMV infected tree will it spread to your other trees?

  • sweet_lemon
    11 years ago

    I understand your concern Bronx Boy. If I thought my trees were fmv free (they are not), I also would want to keep them that way.

    I hope if you order new figs from another nursery in the future however, be sure to tell them that you absolutely insist on a refund if you get an fmv infected tree - that will save both you and them time, money, and misunderstandings.

  • bronxfigs: New York City/7b
    11 years ago

    wisner....
    From what I read, yes, the infection is spread by mites. How they get from one tree to another, I have no idea. That's why I didn't want any infected plants near my "clean" trees. Why invite problems.

    sweet lemon:
    I did find a source for my "Texas Blue Giant" and I was sent a beautiful clean tree. Before I ordered, I explained my concerns about FMV. As far as they knew, their stock was clear. This is year two, and I haven't seen any evidence of the blight...yet. In future years, who knows?
    I ordered from PINE ISLAND NURSERY, MIAMI, FL. (305-233-5501)

    My original trees may very well have FMJ, and they may show symptoms in the future, perhaps this season. I've had them since 2007, and they're still clean. I simply didn't see why I should keep infected trees around my clean trees...that's why the sick trees went into the trash.


    ************************************************************
    While we are on the subject of trees infected with FMJ:

    I find it very curious that not one of all the in-ground trees, planted in The Bronx, and other areas around here, show any evidence of FMJ. The trees look perfectly clean, lush, and vigorous, and I hardly see any trees that are covered for winter protection. When I was a kid, everyone wrapped their trees for the winter. Now, no more mummies. I do see some trees that have rust-spots, but that's usually toward the end of the season, in September.

    I wonder why no FMV in my area?

    Frank

  • Suzi AKA DesertDance So CA Zone 9b
    11 years ago

    I have 2 VdB, BOTH from UCD cuttings, both with FMV, both are fast growers and both are loaded with figs! I see no problem with FMV,but I do get webbing from spider mites which are rampant. We wash them off weekly, but they come back, and I don't like getting my figs wet. They tend to crack. My Panachee does not show FMV, and they all exist close to each other.

    Suzi

  • noss
    11 years ago

    I think the mites that transmit FMV only survive out West, but could be mistaken. They live in the soil around the fig trees. I've read that you can spread FMV if you cut a tree that is positive without disinfecting the pruner blades, but not sure about that, either.

    Gee, but I'm a lot of help, aren't I?

    noss

  • thisisme
    11 years ago

    Thought I would post a few picks of my FMV Free Violetta de Bordeaux. I had three other large FMV Free Violetta de Bordeaux's that I gave away to members of the Arizona Gardening Forum. This is the only one I have left in the ground. Though I do have three cuttings rooted and leafing out in a pot. I took lots and lots of cuttings from this tree last season hoping to root them and sell/trade and gift them. I put them in water though before the ends had callused over and it ended in a massive failure.

  • Heather Leigh
    11 years ago

    Hi

    This is off topic, but do you know how big the VDB figs get? I planted one the other day, but I keep seeing conflicting information about how large they get. I was hoping it would be a shady tree one day.

  • thisisme
    11 years ago

    Heatherleigh I think a lot depends on how you grow them and what your climate is. Until two years ago all of my trees were in pots which dwarfs them. Not to mention our poor soil and extreme heat also has a dwarfing affect. So does planting trees close to other trees and until a few months ago there were trees three foot away on either side of this one. Not to mention I prune my trees to keep the fruit reachable so they never get very tall. Given all of that I am not a very good person to ask.

    My guess is that if a Violette de Bordeaux were planted in the ground in a favorable climate in good soil in a place with full sun they could get very big if left un-pruned. If a fig tree were to completely stop growing you would not have any new wood and they would stop producing fruit.

    I don't think there is any tree that just stops growing at some set height that continues to produce fruit year after year with out having to prune them. The beauty about fig trees and fruit trees for that matter is that you can keep them at any height you want with a little pruning now and then.

    If someone tries to sell you a tree that never needs to be pruned and never grows larger than a certain size and produces lots of fruit every year just walk away. They are a lier.

  • noss
    11 years ago

    This is me,

    Is it really you? Where have you been?

    That's a beautiful tree and the foliage is so delicate-looking and pretty.

    Nice to see you,

    noss

  • thisisme
    11 years ago

    How nice of you to notice noss. My health was pretty bad the last half of 2011 and I cut way back on my posting. Felling a bit better now. Nearly all of what you see in that tree is new growth. I had cut it nearly to the ground. It came out of dormancy in early March and has grown 3'-4' already. I would not be surprised if it grows 7'-8' this season.

  • centurion_
    11 years ago

    Thisisme, the one you gave me is also now planted in ground. It's just now starting to bounce back after that long transport and sitting in my garage for two months.

    Thank you again, my friend. It's a beautiful tree.

    Dave

  • noss
    11 years ago

    This is me,

    I did notice you were not there. Your name sticks in my mind because there's another fignut whose name is, isthis me? and I think the two of you go so well together and I got suck a big kick out of both names that they stuck in my mind. Isthisme? Lives not too far from me.

    I'm sorry you had health issues last year and am very glad ot hear you are feeling better.

    I was trashed the first part of last year due to medication changes and then my husband was sick the last half. Had to have two surgeries, but is all right now, thank God.

    Hope to see you around even more,

    noss

  • Heather Leigh
    11 years ago

    Thank you Thisisme,

    The man at the store where I bought it said if I didn't prune it, it would get big. Then I did some research online and kept hearing the the VDB fig is more of a dwarf variety and that made me sad!

    Happy to know it will get big and beautiful one day. I do live in Phoenix though. It is in full sun, about 5 feet tall. I just planted it about 5 days ago. I read that I should keep it moist for about 2 weeks and give it B vitamin a couple times. So that is what I've been doing. Do you have any other advice. I planted in in regular AZ clay earth. Maybe that was bad.

    I'm so frustrated. I just realized the fruit trees that came with the house were taken over by trifoliate- I think I have to dig everything up except the tangelo and the ash trees. So, I really want to make this fig tree my pride and joy!

  • thisisme
    11 years ago

    Dave the Violetta de Bordeaux you went home with was bigger than the tree I posted pictures of when you dug it up. It should get huge this year. I took those pictures with the camera you recommended. Best $ 20.00 I have spent in a long time. Thank you for all your help my friend. Tell Glenda we said hi.

    noss glad to hear that you and your hubby are doing better. I have never run into is, thisme? You're right though. Is, thisme? is a lot like thisisme but there is only one thisisme and it's me not he.lol

    Heatherleigh with our long growing season this is a great place to grow figs. There is nothing wrong with our native clay. As far as dwarf goes its a relative thing. When it comes to fig trees dwarf's are still big.

    If you want your tree to get big here is my advice. Add a 3"-4" deep layer of mulch around the tree. This will keep the soil cool and help the soil retain water. Don't drown the tree but keep the soil moist. On the 1st of February the 1st of May and 1st August fertilize it with Arizona's Best Citrus Food. It has a good balance of fertilizers and has some sulfur which is needed in our alkaline soil and water. There has been much debate about vitamin "B". Some sware by it but the general consensus is that it does nothing.

  • thisisme
    11 years ago

    Heatherleigh I almost forgot. Do you mean you think your trees were sprayed with a defoliant? A trifoliate is a variety of orange.

  • greyongray
    11 years ago

    What a timely thread, I just picked up a VDB (from HD but it has Dave Wilson tags on it) and yep, it has FMV. Which was not immediately apparent because for a 2 gallon tree, it's huge - 6-7 feet tall in the pot! But I can see there are a few runty weird leaves and even the large ones aren't perfect. I didn't inspect too much at the time because it looked really good and even had some figs on it (not edible though).

    Since I have just gotten the fruit tree bug this year, and my other 3 trees seem to also have FMV (3 different sources), I'm not ready to scrap them in effort to get rid of the infected stock. But it does seem to be problematic when the trees come out of dormancy and put out stunted little leaves... I don't know, I'm new here and have my "eyes on the prize" of the fruit, but I have to wonder if ficus carica is just so hardy that it thrives in spite of FMV.

    I hear good things about VDB and same, that it is a smaller tree (10-15'), will post when I finally get a fruit I can eat ;)

  • noss
    11 years ago

    thisisme,

    ["noss glad to hear that you and your hubby are doing better. I have never run into is, thisme? You're right though. Is, thisme? is a lot like thisisme but there is only one thisisme and it's me not he.lol"]

    Thanks.

    LOL! That's too cute, thisisme, and you're a poet, too. I thought maybe isthisme was doing a takeoff on your name, but he said no.

    It sounded like she was saying that the rootstock took over the tree that was grafted onto it. Trifoliate is used as rootstock because it's so tough, but it's always trying to take over because of that strength. Turn your back on it and it sprouts. The same thing happened to my neighbor's little lime tree. The lime tree was killed by the cold, so the rootstock took over, but she didn't know it. I saw the graft line and knew what had happened.

    We'll see what she says, though.

    noss

  • Heather Leigh
    11 years ago

    Yes, trifoliate- the root stock used for citrus trees. It was a bummer digging them up, but I planted a pomegranate tree instead! I'm excited about that. Thank you for the advice. I'm going to pick up some mulch next week. I hope it does okay until then. I noticed some new leaves sprouted, but the leaves over all look a little droopy, but still firm to the touch.

  • noss
    11 years ago

    Hi Heahterleigh,

    I'm sorry that happened to you when you thought you were getting good citrus trees. I hope your pomegranate tree does well for you. How come you didn't put in more citrus trees, as well?

    noss

  • Heather Leigh
    11 years ago

    I still have what I think is 4 small lemon trees (we'll find out when the fruit ripens) and one huge minneola- it's very old and full of fruit! Can't wait til X-mas. I guess it gets fruit every other year usually. In February I found one Honeybell on it and boy was it the most delicious one I have ever had! I had space for two more trees in the yard.

    I planted the pom because the do well in this harsh climate and the fig because they are delicious and smell so beautiful.

    I'm actually having some trouble with my little fig tree though. She's suffering in the heat (110 today- supposed to be hotter tomorrow). I reluctantly white washed her today, to help protect her delicate trunk, still haven't picked up the mulch, but temporarily put a bunch of tall grass I whacked this morning over the well and around it to try and block the sun from baking the roots.

    It didn't seem to work. I came home from my job interview at 3:30 to see poor Figgie horribly wilted. I know it's the heat! I gave her more water and covered her with a slightly sheer old curtain for the time being. Do you think that will help? Any suggestions on how to keep her alive through her first Phoenix summer... or better yet how to keep me alive :)

  • centurion_
    11 years ago

    Mulch 4 to 6 (preferably 6) inches deep in a two foot circle around the trunk. Keep the mulch a few inches away from the trunk as best you can, but that kind of heat will definately bake the roots if you don't find a way to keep them cool. Shade cloth would also be good to help it get through it's first summer. I have mine arranged so my new little trees get full morning sun. But here in the Verde Valley our temps run about 10 degrees cooler than yours.

  • noss
    11 years ago

    Heatherleigh,

    Get some shadecloth and make a shield for her as well as mulching her. The shadecloth does keep things cooler. Were you unable to plant her in a place where she only gets the morning sun, or is that just as harsh?

    You got a Honey Bell from your tree? A mineola has Honey Bells?

    I found Honey Bells this past year online and boy were they good. The ones from out West were far better than the ones from FL, though.

    noss

  • Heather Leigh
    11 years ago

    I think they call them Honeybells... that's what wiki said, but who knows.I bought some mulch, but I can't afford the shade cloth right now. The horticulturist that works at Home Depot said it was okay to use my curtain during the hottest part of the day.

    As for where I planted the fig. I didn't know that it only needed morning light. I was under the impression that it liked full sun. I don't know where I got that idea.

    It is in full sun all day, but really- there wasn't any other option with my yard. One day when the AZ Ash tree gets big it will probably filter some of the light. If only Figgy can survive until then. Do you think it will be okay? There is one other spot in the back of the yard that gets a bit more shade from the neighbors humongous eucalyptus trees that hang over my yard. I fear it is too late to transplant though.

    Can I use some citrus fertilizer for my fig?

  • noss
    11 years ago

    Heatherleigh,

    I wasn't questioning whether you got a Honeybell, or not, but was interested in it because I found them this past year and they were so good. I wouldn't mind having a tree that produced Honeybells, so I was hoping you might have more information.

    It depends upon where you live, whether the fig trees need more, or less sun, etc.

    I missed the part where you were talking about using your curtain--Don't know where my mind was at. :)

    Anything that could shade her would help until she gets established. It's rough for them when they're first planted if it's hot. Anything you could put in front of the tree to block the sun would help.

    I hope she will grow big and fruitful for you.

    noss

  • Kyle
    8 years ago

    thisisme,

    How are the fig's doing? I'm in search of a good fig variety that will do well here in the Phx area. I see you have/had the vilolette de bordeaux. I figured I'd post here to see if you or any other phx area members are doing ok with this variety.


    Thank you.

    -Kyle

  • Suzi AKA DesertDance So CA Zone 9b
    8 years ago

    I'm not thisisme, but I got VdB when I lived in La Quinta, CA, same climate as Phoenix. I would not recommend it for any place HOT. It wilts in the heat and you really need to watch that the figs don't get too ripe or they will be dry and not as delicious as their reputation. VdB is a cool weather fig. I now have two of that variety on our acreage in HOT Riverside county. Same thing. Wilts with heat. NONE of my other figs do this. Most thrive, and I do have my favorites. I love sweet, juicy figs!


  • russmaria
    7 years ago

    I live in Vallejo, CA where we have lovely summer weather averaging 78 in the summer, and usually fairly mild winters. I bought a VdB three years ago and planted on a slight hillside in the ground. It gets good sun from about noon til sunset. I have it on a drip system so it gets a small amount of every day. The leaves are not wilted so I assume it's getting enough water. I had thought that by the third year I would have a fairly plentiful crop but it is very sparse. I've read that they are drought tolerant, but then I've also read that I should give it 12 to 16 gallons of water per week! So which is it? I don't know if I'm watering too much or too little. Also, should I be fertilizing it? Right now it's the beginning of summer and I can count 6 figs starting on my tree. Is that about right for this time of year? Will I get a more plentiful crop in the fall? I really love this tree and I'm really forward to eating some wonderful figs!

  • Steph
    7 years ago

    Bought a VdB from Dave Wilson just this year. It's tiny but it's cropping a lot of fruit. If I had a heart bigger than my stomach I'd pull them off and make it focus on growth this year. ;)

    It has the signature VdB leaves like the others posted here. It definitely has FMV. I don't think that's what's making the leaves curl though on mine - my other two Dave Wilson trees also have FMV and their leaves don't curl. I've been told VdB leaves just have the tendency to curl a bit.

  • Hankuu
    4 years ago

    My friend's nursery order 100 fig trees from Dave Wilson this year in January. They were hibernating and couldn't find any problem. But after 3 months when trees sprout, 50% figs got FMV already .



  • garymc
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Tissue cultured plants can be made virus, blight, and bacteria free in the process of propagation. However, if a nursery gets virus free tissue cultured trees and puts them next to ones that have the virus, then, they get it, too. I also see people on here complaining that it takes forever for TC figs to produce, or that they never do, or that you can take a cutting from one and the cutting will produce before the original tree. Another thing people complain about with TC plants is that they are tiny. They start out as a few cells. I have bought TC muscadines and the vines were about the size of a matchstick and the roots were in a bag with much less potting medium than a sandwich bag would hold. But they caught up with the same variety purchased at the same time in half gallon pots within 3 months. I have no reason to believe my fig trees are virus free, so I'm not worried about it. But if I was starting out, I would have nothing but TC plants guaranteed to be virus free.

  • TheyCallMeDave
    4 years ago

    From my experience, it looks like most FMV happens at the beginning when the fig is waking up and leafing out... After a few nodes, the leaves come out normal and fine... The tree also producing fine for me. Don't see what all the Hoopla is about.

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