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Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Posted by desertdance So.CA LowDesert (My Page) on
Thu, May 27, 10 at 21:20

Gurney's sold it as an Italian Honey. It now has baby figs. I am not sure what I really have! In another thread, I was told that Italian Honey is not dark. It is green! Here are the babies, and they have these stripes? and you can see they will not be light green. Oh please don't say I have a BT!! Please!! Image and video hosting by TinyPic
Is it the dreaded BT? YIKES!
Suzi


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

From what I can see of the leaves and the figs, it looks just like the Italian Honey Fig Trees Gurneys sent me in October. So far they are both doing great. My one little fig is also purple BTW.

Let's just wait a little and see what happens....


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

OH, Thank you! On another thread someone said Italian Honey's are green, so I was worried. Yep! We will wait and see what happens!


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Hi Desertdance,
does your plant fruit and leaves resemble these pictures.
Here is picture of fruit at similar stage as yours
Photobucket
Here is fruit a week away from ripe.
Photobucket
Here is the tree
Photobucket
Martin


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Suzi,

Your tree is definitely NOT an Italian Honey fig tree. The leaves of an Italian Honey are much different than the deeply lobed leaves of your fig tree. The color of the IH fig is not dark; rather, it is usually a greenish/yellow color. The interior pulp color of the IH fig can be from clear to honey in color....depending upon the strain and growing area. I should be able to ID your tree when you post pictures of the ripe fruit.

FYI....Only Vern's Brown Turkey has leaves that are somewhat lobed as your tree. The insipid tasting California Brown Turkey does not have leaves like your tree.......nor do the leaves of your tree look like the excellent tasting "Southern" Brown Turkey. And yes I said EXCELLENT tasting Southern Brown Turkey (not to be confused with the South"eastern" Brown Turkey cultivar AKA Texas Everbearing).

Bottom line........
The California Brown Turkey is a lousy tasting fig....the Southeaastern Brown Turkey is a much better fig, and the pure Southern Brown Turkey is an EXCELLENT taste fig which is reputed by knowledgeable people in my area to be a bud sport of the SUPER tasting Celeste cultivar.

Dan


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Leaves and fruit look like my Gurneys Italian Honey Fig Martin. Especially the first pic.

Could you ID those pics?


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it BT?

Thanks Dan. We posted at the same time so please disregard my earlier follow up question.

To sumarize then, the pics appear to be a Vern's Brown Turkey AKA Texas Everbearing Brown Turkey?

Will this be a large tree? Gurneys claims it will be a smallish, compact tree.


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

So, I would not be disappointed if my tree is an "Excellent Tasting," Vern's Brown Turkey? Is that the one that tastes like strawberry? Not sure where Gurney's is located, but the fact that I am in California won't contaminate my fig to be insipid tasting, right? LOL

I rushed outside and took a full shot of the tree, and here she be! Image and video hosting by TinyPic

I would be very happy if this Fig is Vern's Brown Turkey. At least I have back up! I have rooted cuttings of Black Mission and Panachee, both of which are supposed to be delicious. I fear that my Violette de Bordeau cuttings might not make it.

Thanks for the ID! Your leaves do look a lot like mine!
Suzi


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Well, the awful truth has hit home! I searched the web for the name Vern's Brown Turkey, and I found that this delicious varietal does not have a red eye, and mine have a red eye from the moment they are conceived. YIKES!!

Does this mean that the fruit inside will be reddish?

So it appears that Wabikeguy and I were "hoodwinked" by Gurneys. It is no fun to purchase something that was mislabeled, but now the adventure begins!

Martin, your pictures look very much like my tree. You did not mention what variety your pictures are. But thank you again for that recipe link on the other thread. Even if this turns out to be the "Insipid" tasting Brown Turkey, it might be delicious grilled, with a little bacon wrap and maybe some red onion or something, served on a bed of arugula and tossed with some goat cheese....

I'm starting to love my little Brown Turkey of the unknown kind!!
Suzi


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Ya....mine are in the ground and are about the same size. I planted them a couple feet from the garage, thinking they would be small trees, as advertised. So it would be real good to know just what they are, and if they're going smallish as claimed, or much larger trees.

I personally don't care if they are brown turkey or not, as long as the figs taste good. Although I must admit....it would have been nice to actually recieve what I ordered.

Martin...would you please ID that tree you posted pictures of? It sure does look like the two I've got.

Thanks..............Dave


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

It would be great if Martin would ID his pictures, so we would know. Martin, please ID!! :-)

Dave, wanna team up and ask Gurney's for a replacement? Hmmmmm I need to go check my emails and see if I still have the invoice.
Suzi


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

My plant pictured is a Violet De Bordeaux purchased by me from
edible landscaping.
I went to Gurney website to see what type of fig plants they are selling but saw no fig plants on the site.
When your fruit ripens take picture on tree of it and cut in half and take picture.
This will help further ID what you may or may not have.
Martin


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it BT?

Thanks Martin. I only have one little fig on the "Gurneys Italian Honey" trees, but I will definately do that.

After reading you last post, I just went out and compared my "Italian Honey" figs to the VDB I have in the back yard. They do look alike. No figs in the labled VDB as yet.

Suzie, if these do turn out to be VDB, I for one, would have no complaint.

Dave


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey Is It French?

And if they do indeed turn out to be Violette Du Bordeaux, shouldn't they have been labeled "French Honey" fig trees?

(Sorry...I couldn't resist).

Dave


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Dave, call them. You will get a credit, for whatever that is worth. If they mistakenly gave us the Lady Violette Du Bordeaux, absolutely! No complaints, but I did complain because I didn't get what I ordered, and there you have it!!

Enjoy your credit, and I think we Scored!!
Suz


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

At the time of purchase what types were listed on there site.
Martin


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they tagged it as an Italian Honey

We purchased what they advertised. Evidently, Gurneys were sold the wrong stuff from their suppliers, but I am really happy that this fig is the only one I really wanted! Violette du bordeaux.

I do get confused, because I have a grapevine that was queen in prohibition... Alicante Bouchet, and she is the queen of the vineyard. All these French names..........


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

What i should have asked here .
Was at the time of purchase Violet De Bordeaux listed on there site.


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Dieseler, no. They advertised Italian Honey, dwarf fig. And that is what we thought we bought.


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Awesome. Thanks for checking on that Suzi. I would have ordered these if I had know then what I know now. So we lucked out.

Maritn, I cannot remember what other varities they had last Winter. I was looking for a couple of semi dwarf varieties to go into a confined space, and these seemed to fill the bill.


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

What i should have asked here .
Was at the time of purchase Violet De Bordeaux listed on there site.

I placed my order late in 2008, and they delivered in 2009. Does that help?
Suzi


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The Order was for Italian Honey, Dwarf.

They did not offer Violet de Bordeaux. They offered Italian Honey. Dwarf. No complaints any more. Just answering your questions. I ordered late 2008. I received my order in 2009. Now, what makes you think we do not have the lady, Ms. Violet De Bordeaux? And if not that, what red eyed figgy with those leaves that match yours, do we have?
Suzi


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Desertdance ,
Now, what makes you think we do not have the lady, Ms. Violet De Bordeaux?
im not thinking one way or the other. ; )
Im just trying to help by showing what a VdB looks like and nothing more.

I have seen a website or 2 over some years that listed dwarf fig as only name listed with no real cultivar name just Dwarf Fig and resembled my VdB , i have also seen Vdb advertised as having dwarf type growth on some websites which is not at all true in my experience with this cultivar.
As mentioned in above post when fruit ripens this will further help identify what you may or may not have when picture is posted. Time hopefully will tell .
Martin


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Just to clarify. This was sold as an "Italian Honey Fig." It was described as a dwarf variety. There were a couple of others listed, which I can't personally remember. One of the others could have been a VDB.

My one little fruit doesn't look too healthy, but I will cut it and get some pics of it and the tree when and if it ripens.


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

My whole soul and body hopes that our Gurney's figs are Ms. Violet Du Bordeaux! So now we wait till those baby figs get ripe. In a month or two one of us will take a photo of a ripe fig, and hopefully we will rejoice!!

When I purchased that fig, I didn't know about this web site, or that there were differences in figs. I just thought a cute dwarf fig would be fun, and since I like all things Italian, an Italian Honey Fig sounded perfect! But now, with all of the education on this site, I'm getting very picky!!

Ignorance was bliss! It's comforting to know that wabikeguy is in the same boat! I have a feeling this is going to turn out really good!
Suzi


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

The fact that these figs are coloring up at such an early stage also helps with identification. Most figs develop color when much closer to being ripe. Among those that I have seen color early are Violet de Bordeaux (Negronne), and Petite Negri (which might be VdB or a sport of VdB) which is often sold as a "dwarf".


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Ah its good to be picky and wanting to get what one orders.
Especially when space is limited.
Here is another that colors a little early on and has a similar fruit shape as VdB but not Vdb , they did not ripen for me as tree still was not mature at that point maybe this season.
If i was to take a guess about your plant though at this early point i would say so far it does look like Vdb or a sport of it. I have been wrong before many times and hate to get ones hopes up high, i must say though VdB is a great tasting fig in my opinion.
Hope you enjoy this picture and i did not mean to stray off subject but you mention Italian and this one from Italy(my heritage) called Negretta.
Photobucket
Martin


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

A red eyed fig assures that the fig pulp will be red in color. I agree with others that the characteristics of your fig tree resemble VDB (leaves, early fruit coloring, and dwarf tendency). I would not complain if it turns out to be a VDB as it is an excellent tasting fig. The Italian Honey is juicier and a milder tasting fig than VDB......some people prefer juicy figs. VDB has a richer fig taste and has a similar taste profile of a good Black Mission fig. VDB wants to grow in a more open pattern and suckers very easily.

Dan


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Thanks Dan and Martin. Between the pics and the descriptions you two have posted, I am becoming more and more convinced that these are VDB's. My two are definatley favoring a wide, multiple trunk growth habit.

Dave


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Martin and Dan, I enthusiastically agree with Dave in thanking you both for giving us such good support! Mine also has that wide multiple trunk growth habit. I'm looking forward to the first taste! There are 6 figgies at the moment all different sizes, but they probably need a nice dose of summer to ripen. Thanks so much!

Suzi


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The Taste of VDB

I wish we could edit our posts so I wouldn't have to post again, but I found this description of the flavor of VDB on the UC Davis Website, Among the most distinctive figs in the collection, Simon notes, are Violette de Bordeaux and Panachée. "Violette de Bordeaux," he says, "has purple skin and brilliant red flesh. It tastes like the best raspberry jam you've ever eaten, and is loaded with aroma, too."

Can you hardly wait to taste it? Sounds yummy!
Suzi
PS Here is what it says about Panachee (I have that one also, and my cuttings are growing). "Panachée is a robust, highly fruitful tree. But what really sets it apart from other figs is its beautiful, bright-yellow skin. Each Panachée has green stripes, called ribs, that run from the stem down to the bottom of the fruit, like the longitudinal lines on a globe. Inside, it's fire-engine red, with a delicate, strawberry-like flavor."


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Hi Desertdance,
some say Panache looks like a striped hot air ballon and likes a long hot season.
Another fig that suppose to have wonderful flavor and needs a long hot season to bring out the ultimate it has to offer is Black Maderia. See the picture in link.
The madeira has FmV but after first year with fertilizing each week the plant will start to grow and next season much better. Some say it may be the best tasting fig out there but thats always up for debate amongst the many different palates of fig growers. Just like me i basically grow dark types for personal palate reasons.If your season is long and hot this may be a fig to try.Check out the fig grown in California.
Martin

Here is a link that might be useful: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=2157665&highlight=black+madeira


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

YIKES Martin! You win! I put it on my wish list! We have now got taste profiles for two of my Figs.

Panachee, delicate strawberry flavor
VDB, Best raspberry jam you ever tasted!

So what would the flavor profile be for the following? Do not say excellent flavor! That means nothing! Does it taste like a bite of nutty honey? blackberry? Peach? Go for it Martin:

Black Mission
Black Maderia

TIA! Suzi


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Suzi if i may call you that,
gosh its hard as some folks will describe same fig differently,
To me only
Mission has a rich figgy taste, slight sweetness but not overpowering my favorite type of taste in a fig and lingers on afterwards for a little bit.
Madeira i have yet to taste although i have a plant going into its 3rd season but set back because of previous cool weather, its suppose to be wonderful from many many other comments i have read.
Miss VdB has kinda fruity taste and rich taste combined that linger afterwards fig is eaten.
Oh another type i have yet to taste because its stunted, stubborn, affected with FmV severly and probably one of the most hurt by Fmv is Ischia Black which is supposed to be another fig thats fabulous but difficult to grow. I have 1 going into its 3rd season but very tiny plant and have one being experimented with by someone as well.

After a few years one tends to figure out what taste they like in a fig or if not just likes most figs to eat. Some folks will develop a preference though.
Just sweet overpowering ?
Rich fig taste with little sweet?
Rich fig taste, little seed crunch with little sweet?
Fruity Taste?
Bland tasting (flat)not much taste to stand out. Some say thats a common Brown Turkey, i had brown turkey many many years ago that was decent and not bland but admit there are many other types that are better , for a first fig tree one cannot go wrong growing a brown turkey in my opinion to learn the habits of fig trees. ; )

These are what those you mentioned with VdB thrown in taste like to me and may not to others though. Sorry if i strayed off topic a little bit.Now i have a taste for a ripe fig but have to wait till mid to late August for them to start.

Martin


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

FYI.......I grow many different varieties of figs here South Louisiana. When the summers are dry in my area, my climate is very close to that of a Mediterranean climate. My soil type is Mississippi River Delta soil which is ideal for growing figs. All fig cultivars can ripen to perfection in my yard under those ideal conditions....even the late ripening ones.

From my tastings.......
Black Mission has a unique flavor profile and a particular mouth-feel that I can ID blindfolded. It is rich tasting with a good sugar to acid balance. They have an excellent seed crunch to them that I really like.

VDB is a sweeter fig than BM with more definite complex fruit (not figgy) notes to it. It tends to be a bit more juicy than the drier/coarser Black Mission.

Col De Dame White (from UCD) is hands down the best tasting fig I have ever eaten. Figs that have ripened on my tree, have been to-die-for good. It is hard for me to imagine a better tasting fig. However, I will continue to search for that perfect fig. I have a newly rooted Black Madeira (from a UCD cutting) that is replacing the Madeira that I lost. One day it will have fruit for me to make a comparison. The Col De Dame White needs a long growing season. It will produce very good tasting breba figs. However, main crop are better tasting. They have a thick skin that must be removed before eating. The eye is nearly closed and the figs are bug and crack resistant. It is highly immune to rains. The interior pulp is red and its unique flavor profile is very complex and simply awesome.

I also have a Panachee that will fruit for me this year. It is reputed to be a bud sport of Col De Dame White. I have high hopes that it too will be an excellent fig in my climate.

The second best tasting fig that I have ever eaten is one called Bourjosotte Gris. It too is a late ripening fig. It has a very pronounced strawberry flavor which lingers on the palate for several minutes after it is eaten. No other fig comes close to matching the intense strawberry flavor that this cultivar produces. It tastes more strawberry than a real strawberry.

Dan


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Thanks for that Dan! Now I see how this works! You buy one fig, and it turns out to be a mystery fig, but your fig buddies tempt you by telling you how lucky you are to have gotten this fig by mistake, and they go on to tell you about some that are = if not, better, so then the wish list begins....

I see exactly how this works! :-)
Suzi


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

That is EXACTLY how it works. We fignuts just keep on searching for the perfect fig........

Dan


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

I think at this point you should just hope for a fig you enjoy and forget putting a label on it. I understand you have gotten a lot of good input, and it is often easy to identify what something is not, even if the experts here after seeing further info on the fig think it could very well be VDB I personally would never label it as such as even the very best educated guesses may not be correct. I am not expert that is for sure, but some figs could be so similar, I would not label it as any known cultivar, as that is one reason why we have so many differant plants by the same name. If it doesn't appear to be what the providing source said it was I wouldn't be so set on labeling it and furthering the misinformation, so I would personally just hope for a Great tasting/performing "unknown1" if it is shown not to be the advertised cultivar.


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Say Dan, when you say Bourjosotte Gris is a late fig, can you tell me when I can expect mine to ripen? I have one and it is growing nicely. Dennis


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Dennis,

There is a thread on the figs4fum forum where I had posted all of the ripening dates for my figs......along with a visual description and a taste desciption of the different cultivars that ripened in my yard. I deleted my post in that thread and kept a copy. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find it at the moment. To the best of my recollection BG was ripening in late October in my yard. I should get better ripening data this year.

FYI----a couple of forum members have reported that their BG figs all dropped before ripening. That was not the case with my tree. It ripened all of its figs. BG is a vigorous grower and wants to be a large tree. MAYBE container growing is what casues it to drop its figs....not sure at this time. It is an excellent tasting fig. I hope to get an indication of its productivity this season.

Dan


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RE: Is it an Italian Honey or is it the Dreaded BT?

Hi, did anyone ever figure out what this fig ended up being?


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