Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
geoff_ri

Please Help with Leaf Problem

Geoff S
12 years ago

I would appreciate identifying problem(s) and solutions to the following. Pictures below.

I have first year cuttings that have been potted up earlier this spring. They've done well so far, but about two months after potting up to one gallon pots, problems started...rust colored leaves on the underside and on top. When I've held back a bit on water, these leaves shriveled up and got crunchy as opposed to wilted.

The problem showed up after very vigorous stem and leaf growth. I pinched back all fruits (except one that I couldn't resist leaving on). The problem is variable in intensity from leaf to leaf, with some leaves not being very much affected. There also seems to be a difference between plants, with some plants being more or less affected.

I have six plants from cuttings started this past winter. They are of are four different varieties coming from different parts of the country.

One of the affected cuttings is from my own in-ground tree. The in-ground tree and and two other potted plants from the same mother tree that are two years old do not show any signs of problem.

The affected plants are potted in a mixture of about 50% Miracle Grow potting mix, 25% Perlite, and 25% play sand (in bags from from Home Depot). I also mixed in to this medium a little pelletized lime and some Osmocote slow release fertilizer. I tried to go easy on the last two, since I am weary of overdoing it with nutrients.

The plants are in my driveway and get about six hours of sun. There is good air circulation. I try to keep them evenly watered. Other than Osmocote, I do not fertilize. I do water through the plant to the point of draining a decent amount of water through the bottom. I water every two to three days depending on the heat. I also make sure not to over water to avoid root rotting.

My own novice thoughts...

1. Too much sun

2. Fertilizer burn

3. The bagged play sand that I used has some bad minerals or preservatives to inhibit mold/bacteria

I would appreciate any help in figuring this out.

_________________________________________

This plant got a little too dry yesterday, and many of the leaves turned crisp. I pulled off the totally wasted ones, since they did not bounce back after watering yesterday evening.
{{gwi:809295}}From August 24, 2011

_________________________________________

As you can see below, not all of the leaves are affected. There are small leaves growing above this larger leaf that seem to be doing okay so far. The last picture, though, shows new growth that is affected.
{{gwi:809297}}From August 24, 2011
{{gwi:809298}}From August 24, 2011
{{gwi:809300}}From August 24, 2011

_________________________________________

This new growth seems to be very affected.
{{gwi:809303}}From August 24, 2011

Comments (9)

  • igo4fish
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    three things come to mind:

    1) Excessive Salinity in the soil (did you use "washed" sand?)
    2) Too porous growing media. 50%+ is a bit high.
    3) How much (and which type) Osmocote did you use per volume of soil?

  • Geoff S
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Igo,

    1. I'll check the sand bag later tonight to see if it says anything about washed. It was labeled as "play sand," if that means anything.

    2. Does too porous mean that plants to be watered more frequently? Or does this somehow affect root growth? Other problems associated with this?

    3. Re Osmocote, I'm not sure at this time, but I think it is the "green" label vegetable slow release formula...14-14-14. As to how much, I don't recall. I do know that I used less than was recommended. Maybe about 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of potting medium.

  • hoosierbanana
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You have an immobile nutrient deficiency. And possible root problems from adding so much fine sand.
    Salt would have caused problems months ago.
    Sand and perlite do not hold nutrients so what you added in spring is likely gone by now.
    Go buy some seaweed extract and foliar feed as well as add to the pots. More lime too, my guess is calcium or iron deficiency.

    Here is a link that might be useful: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/LyraEDISServlet?command=getImageDetail&image_soid=FIGURE%206&document_soid=SS530&document_version=42330

  • igo4fish
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Actually, under normal circumstances of salt from just watering, Perlite has a tendency to hold onto salts to the extent that it needs to be replaced every few years. So it is conceiveable that it has reached a level to become toxic to the plant if the sand had not been washed out before mixing the medium. The additional problem could be that since the medium is so porous, you are leaching out nutrients at an accelerated rate and subecting the plant to more frequent droughts. Iron deficiency is not the cause as it results in intervenial yellowing and your leaves show signs of total yellowing and necrosis, not just between the veins. My quick solution at this point is to change your mix ratio to a lower % of sand and ensure you use washed sand. May want to use a different brand. Some recommend waiting until your trees are dormant to do this. That may be ok but your growing tips look like they are dying. I routinely do bare roots repotting on figs throughout the season with no harm to the plants. I simply submerse the root ball in a bucket of water and work all the dirt loose then fill with the new mix from the bottom up with lots of shaking of the planter to get the mix between the roots and then water by submersing the potted plant once again and pressing down to remove any remaining air pockets. Good luck!

  • hoosierbanana
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Actually you are making things up. Like I said, perlite and sand do not hold nutrients, or salt, or carbonate ions, prove otherwise. Salt damage is interveinal necrosis by the way, see any of that in the pics igo? I will also add that F. carica is salt tolerant.

    Geoff-There is nothing normal about salt accumulation from watering, unless you are using softened water, but you did not mention that. Barerooting is a bad idea, it would help but only because the tree will get the nutrients it needs from the new mix. Just add lime and micronutrients and ride it out for the season. No need to stress the plant (young cutting with tender roots) more.

  • Geoff S
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I appreciate the differing perspectives. H-banana, do I need to be concerned about fertilizing so late in the season? These plants will be going dormant in October or so (zone 6).

    Thanks,
    Geoff

  • hoosierbanana
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nitrogen Fertilizer would cause you problems, especially time release. Seaweed extract does not contain N and will actually help the wood harden because of the K. It will not hurt one bit. I can see your plants have plenty of nitrogen because the lower leaves are not yellowing. If you used MG perlite it had fert as well, so adding osmocote was not necessary.
    It could solely be a ph problem. If you can test the mix with some litmus paper and ph neutral water you will know for sure. Nitrogen fertilizer tends to acidify potting mix when it gets washed out, so I really think that is what happened. Too much fert and now they are too acidic. Hope you figure it out.

  • igo4fish
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hoosier, apparently you know something that universities and the professional growers do not. They must like wasting money to increase profits. As you requested, read the following links for education. FYI, sodium chloride is not the only "salt" out there. Moving on...

    http://text.lsuagcenter.com/en/communications/publications/agmag/Archive/2002/Summer/Recycling+Perlite+for+More+Profit+in+Greenhouse+Tomatoes.htm

    http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/greenhouse/nursery/guides/ghhdbk/media.html

  • hoosierbanana
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The first article says that greenhouse tomato growers need to replace their perlite because of salt and pathogen buildup, OR they can take care of both with a hot water process. It is obscure to this discussion because: 1. Geoff's plants are not in a greenhouse so they are leached by the rain 2.The timeframe is still wrong (1-2) years before replacement, not 4 months 3. Tomatoes are less salt tolerant than figs, and this article outlines successful tomato growing only.4. there are dead tomato roots in this equation, they prolly contain some salt.

    The article clearly states that salts can be leached from perlite, it tells you to use hot water but remember they are killing insects and diseases too. So your article proved what I said earlier, perlite does not hold salt, because it can be leached easily.

    The second web address is to a basic potting media guide that makes no mention of the topic.? If you think I missed something important then why not post the quote so everyone does not have to copy and paste those links into their searchbar and read through to find what you are talking about. Because they should not just take your word for it, the info you provided is obscure and irrelevant like I said.

    There was one gem that applies to Geoff's situation though, the play sand specifically. His mix has poor drainage and aeration as a result of fine sands.

    "Fine sands (0.05mm - 0.25mm) do little to improve the physical properties of a growing media and may result in reduced drainage and aeration."

    FYI I know there are more types of salts. Your response to Geoff's question was gobbldygook related to this very topic. You say that "salts" are accumulating in his media, but fertilizer salts, you called them "nutrients", are leaching because the mix is too "porous". Care to explain how that is possible?

Sponsored
Fresh Pointe Studio
Average rating: 5 out of 5 stars4 Reviews
Industry Leading Interior Designers & Decorators | Delaware County, OH