Getting back on track, no that does not look like my Sal's.

What?!

Hi Jon:I will remember you that the rooted cutting from you died and you aranged for me that i got cuttings from Leon Edmond that same winter.
And Leon stated that his tree came from Edible Landscaping.Now i have to say that sometimes they look diff.when grown on east coast compared with west coast but if you really think is different we can exchange cutting so we can compare.Maybe Leon Edmond has a say in this.!!!!
Best wishes.

Ya know I was oging to ask that same question, is it possible that a specific species looks different in different climates/soil?

Herman: you're Sal's fig looks an awful lot like my tree, thats why Ive been saying I think its a Sal's fig.

Fortisi The Central lobe on your tree leafes is definatelly lomger than mine has.
You will have to grow a real Sal's fig from a reputable nursery as E.L.,or Paradise Nursery,origine,and grow it side by side with your tree to see if it is the same.
As for me ,mine is traced to E.L. by the person i got the cuttings from so i know it is Sal's fig.
Also this Person"Leon Edmond",is a true fig enthuziast growing figs for a long time so i trust him.
Yes Sometimes fig look different in different climates,that is WHY you have to get it from a reputable GROWER.
Best wishes.

thnx for the advice, Im working on getting me a cutting from someone local in exchange for my unknown! ;)

I hope Leon will respond to some of the questions because I have dealt with EL for about five years and don't remember them ever offering Sal's Fig either online or mail order. But, perhaps my memory ain't what it used to be....Elder

Hi Lou(Elder):Here is the original Email :
me@yahoo.com
From: "Leon_E" View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:40:33
Subject: Sal's Fig
[This message originated at GardenWeb]

Hi Herman:
I'm in the process of getting you some Sal's Fig cuttings. The
original tree came from Edible Landscaping. I'll let you know when I get them.
Leon

Printable View This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message - Mark as Unread ]

Anyway "Fortisi" If you get it from George in NJ,or Bass Bonsaist,in Allentown Pa,then it is from me ,because i gave it to them.So it is time other people spread it farther.
But if you wait another year i am going to have some cutting next year.Right now i do not want to chop out the tree,as is got a nice shape.
The other two guys got rooting cuttings from the original Leon's cuttings.Hope this will help.

Few people realize that in the late 90's, Edible Landscaping offered a large selection of different fig varieties which included Sal's. Even today, they infrequently carry figs which are not listed in their catalogue. You have to periodically call them to see what they have available. Hanc Mathies would routinely supply Mike with unique cuttings from his Long Island Green, English Brown Turkey, and others. However, I'm not so sure if that connection still exists (I am still looking for a Long Island Green fig if anyone has this one).Anyway, I acquired my original Sal's from E.L. I also propagated some cuttings of a Sal's fig from a doctor friend in Tennessee to compare. It turned out that the two figs were identical. Eventually I shared cuttings with various collector friends. As luck would have it, Gene replaced my original Sal's tree which I regretfully lost to a house move. I shared some of these cuttings to friends like Herman. Now you know the rest of the story! Gene deserves alot of the credit for keeping this variety in circulation.

Herman, thanks for the exact lineage of our Sal's.
This is a good example of knowing a fig tree lineage.

Jon what is the lineage of you Sal's?
The two pics of your Sal's fig are not exactly identical
either! Looking at the figs4fun site, the leaves
shown have a very short center lobe. If you draw an
imaginary line jointing the 3 tip, it will form part
of an almost perfect circle. I looked at mine, there
are a couple of similar shape, but the majority have
a longer central lobe.

Leon,
>>>As luck would have it, Gene replaced my original
>>>Sal's tree which I regretfully lost to a house move.
Does this mean that Gene's is from your original EL one?

George (NJ).

Vasile,can you please give us more information on Sal `fig,i belive the origional came from sicily and was given to Di paola brothers from a man of new york.Anyway hope to get a cutting from you next year or so,my figs are doing really great this year,hope some day i can post some pictures on the fig forum,thanks for all the good advise we get from you ,and eat all the figs you can winter is caming soon ,Ciao Giuseppe

George,

Here's the story of my Sal's fig:

In Dec. 2001 Leon sent me cuttings of his Sal's fig which he told me came from R.G. via a doctor in MS. About the same time I'd found that EL had a big potted Sal's fig, so I ordered that via the mail. Since I now had this big potted Sal's from EL, I gave away the small rooted cutting from Leon to a local woman as a 'thank-you' for all the fig cuttings I'd gotten from her (she was in the process of moving to WV). I planted the EL Sal's in my backyard where it still is -- although it has since gotten FMV from the UC-Davis cuttings. It is from this tree that I've given Leon cuttings on a couple of occassions after he lost his in moving, and so this is the source for Herman's tree. In Spring 2003 I was visiting EL nursery to pick up several pots of HC figs to establish an orchard in S. Md., I also bought a potted Sal's to include at that orchard. This tree has remained FMV symtom free and hasn't been exposed to UC-Davis cuttings. The cuttings I sent to Keith in exchange for his LW came from this tree.

In April this post by ejp3 started me to wondering whether EL's Sal's and HC were the same. I feel fairly certain that the first Sal's that's in my back yard is not a HC, but am still uncertain about the second one I bought in 2003.

Here's a quote from a July 22, 2006, NAFEX posting regarding the origin of Sal's fig:

"Years ago a guy named Sal who was successful growing a fig in Connecticut sent me a couple of cuttings. He didn't know the name of it so we called it ÂSal's FigÂ. It has become rather popular and is available from several sources (or at least they say it is a ÂSal's FigÂ.)" Doc L.

Giuseppe, Fortisi and anyone else who's wanting Sal's cuttings this fall -- I've got a big tree that needs pruning so cuttings are no problem. Just contact me offline to arrange a trade.

Every time I hit the submit button I suddenly remember something else I wanted to post.

Here are some pics of my backyard Sal's leaf and fruit:

Gene,

Regarding Mike McConkey's observations, do you think that Sal's and Hardy Chicago may be the same or just very similar? I'm including a link to some more of his fig observations at his nusery.

I also sent you email concerning a possible trade.

Thank you,
Alfred

Here is a link that might be useful: Mike McConkey's Observations

Thanks Gene and Leon For Everything!!!!

First, my apologies to Leon, I was not aware that EL carried other than listed fig trees, and my experience with them only goes back to about 2001.
Second, was glad to see references by Gene and Mike McConkey about the possiblity that Sal's Fig and Hardy Chicago are the same fig. In fact, what prompted me to write my response to the thread was - when I first saw the pictures of Herman's Sal's Fig tree my first thought was, when did he find time to sneak into my backyard and take a picture of my Hardy Chicago?
Won't it be nice when (if) UC Davis gets its DNA index!.....Elder

Lou :I am growing them side by side.Sal's is not Hardy Chicago.At least this Sal's.
Now Gene has another Sal's from EL,that she got later and is mosaic free,and that is the one she is not sure if is diff.from Hardy Chicago.
Now i think you know that Mike is not Growing them ,but he gets them from Wholesale Nurseries.So he can receive the Hardy Chicago,as Sal's and pass it around as Sal's.
This first specimen That Leon had long time ago is different,but you have to look close side by side and observe it for the Whole sommer.
As a mater of fact i can tell you that in my climate Sal's is maturing the fruits a lot earlier than HC.So at the end of sommer HC is left with a lot of green fruits and Sal's is not.
Also when it rains hard HC Ripe fruit skin Desintegrate while Sal's do not.Also the eye is closer with tougher skin Sal's is able to stand rainy wether much better than HC.
Also Sal's Definatelly is more productive,in my opinion.

Thanks, Herman. I particulary like your comment about earlier maturation because my HC only matured half its fruit this year, there must be 50-60 green fruit still on the tree. Guess I'll have to get on the bandwagon and try to find a Sal's.....Elder (Lou)

Hate to tell you this, but my Sal's is from Leon, as well. So now you have a better idea of how varied figs can be in different environments.

Go FIGure!
Thanks Gene (and all).......

You Welcome Lou and believe me it is a Fact.
So does my HC,that is why i was looking for better figs.
Right now i have three HC but i am replacing them and keep only one.Regards

It Is a beautifull Strawberry red,inside.
Can't post a picture now because just yestarday my dogs ate last eight ripe in one shot.I am very mad about it It was now you see it now you don't,all gone.The tree is completelly green now.
I think they developed a desire to eat ripe figs.
The only good thing about it is that they only eat the good tasting varieties.And this way if it is not hanging there it was good tasting yesterday.!!!!!!!!!.
I have a huge beautifull Italian everbearing,that has a lot of huge ripe figs and they do not touch it .When i tasted it it was mediocre sweet wit very few flavor.So i know now i only make jam out of it.It is yhe same as Guilbeau.
Regards

Sooooo!

Anybody has another reputable Sal's fig specimen on this
forum (besides from Gene's 2001-EL's traced one)?
If so, please come forward and post (possibly with some
pics, while there is still time before this winter!).

I know that this fig has for a long time been hyped and
wanted by mostly (including me). It is like hearing a well
hyped-movie that raises ones expectations way up there,
but once you see it, you may ask yourself, what was all
this all about... better if it was an unkown surprise.
Guess that it may take some time (like wine, and my
~4 year old PN that is now actually behaving as
initiallty advertised to fully now it's best. So far
my young Sal's specimem only produded
very small figs that remind (size-wise, only) of my tiny
Celeste and defitenily not an HC.

If no one has any; then one of us (fig-you-know-what!)
should grab one from Belleclair, as a second source
before it is too late!
Quite surprised that the true original source was a CT
unkown name; and not LI, NY - after all! Go figure!

George (NJ).

Sals fig and Hardy Chicago fig confusion.
I spoke to Mike at edible landscaping and he thinks Hardy Chicago and Sals fig are the same fig he even sounded confused about it because he gets them from wholesale growers. I asked him to make sure that the Hardy Chicago that I ordered is Hardy Chicago and not Sals Fig. This hardy Chicago fruited this fall and looks to me to be Hardy Chicago.
I then went to Bellaclaire Nursery and asked Chris if Hardy Chicago and Sals fig were the same fig. He categorically stated that they are entirely different figs and both the figs leaf and fruit are distinctly different with the Sals fig having a much rounder leaf. I purchased from Chris that day a rooted cutting from his original" SalÂs Corleone-Fico di capo- Fico Nera tree, Medium to large dark black with dark red center sweet" My sals fig is young and 12" and looks entirely different to Hardy Chicago I realize that leaf shape changes as it matures but I donÂt believe it could change that much as they appear to me to be very different. Next summer I will post photos.

This is how Chris from Bellaclair describes Hardy Chicago  medium Âlarge purple-brown, dark red center.

If you think your Sals fig Looks like Hardy Chicago then itÂs my opinion that its indeed Hardy Chicago or some other fig as I believe they are distinctly different figs. I will confirm this when my SalÂs fig fruits next summer.

Ed

Thanks edarena,
Hold on to your little Belleclare Sal's fig for dear life!
Let us know how it behaves in the (hopefully not that
distant) future...
George (NJ).

Hello George,
Thanks for the interest with a real Sals fig. If it develops as I hope. I will have some Sals fig cuttings available next fall. You can email me next fall.
Hermans Sal fig looks identicle to the Hardy Chicago that I got from Edible Land Scapeing.
Take care
Ed

Ed (edarena),
I tried to contact you privatly via GW FF but could
not! Pl. contact me asap (via GW) or directly at
gorg2@att.net
Has something to do with Belleclare...
Regards,
George (NJ).

Belleclare had two fig cultivars listed as Sal's fig,about two years ago.Now i see only one.
As far as i can see mine is not hardy Chicago eather,It looks like HC to some people but not to me.!!!!!!

I believe that Sal`s fig is more roundish and a litle bigger than Hardy Chicago ,also Sal` s fig is a litle earlier in riping its figs compared to Hardy Chicago,both figs have a good taste,so for the NorthEast Sal`s fig is the best.Ciao ,Giuseppe

Well, today I bit the bullet and bought the two very LAST
of Sal's figs (Corleone) from Bellaclare. One for me and
one for a friend. Had 3 round nickel-sized purple-red from
my Sal's (EL) and a couple of leaves to show to Chris.
He says that they are different (Sal's) and neither is
an HC...

When mine grows up, I will do more comparing between the
2 Sal's and hopefully (knock on wood) I may also be able
to offer some cuttings too.

George (NJ).

very well done George!!!!!

George this is getting very interesting as well as confusing. You seem to have confirmed my thinking that everyoneÂs SalÂs fig is not the original Belleiclare Corleone Sals fig. To make things even more confusing is if I understand you correctly that HC may also be identified incorrectly. This is turning into a great fig mystery. Who has a real Hardy Chicago aka Benson Hurst purple fig?

>>>George this is getting very interesting as well as confusing. You seem to have confirmed my thinking that everyoneÂs SalÂs fig is not the original Belleiclare Corleone Sals fig.

Yes! Sooo, we must nourish it and make it available
for others...

>>>To make things even more confusing is if I understand you correctly that HC may also be identified incorrectly. This is turning into a great fig mystery. Who has a real Hardy Chicago aka Benson Hurst purple fig?

No! The confusion was between Sal's and HC; not between
HC itself. But you raise a good point! Maybe you should
open a NEW thread about HC. Anybody that has a real
(WHY SO?) 'Benson Hurst'(HC), please come forward!
We can sent wood for a side-by-side comparsion...
Mine came from EL and Herman already confirmed that it
is the same as his (Hartmann) HC.

Interestingly, just got some new green cuttings of my
unkown #11. The original old guy who owned the house
was Sicilian. I took some typical leaves and walked
about my backyard comparing. Stopped 3 times, and each
time it was an HC. FUNNY, I always taught I only had 2!
The fruit is longish dark purple, which does not look
anyway near my HC. Have a pic from last year fruit.
Wonder what this one will end up being...

George (NJ)

All the intrigue of Sal's fig, with it's history and HC makes exciting reading.
I can't wait to try Sal's, (when Gene's cuttings are ready).
There aren't many Connecticut Posters here but I'm near enough to NY and Northern NJ to have similar growing conditions. This year was the worst weather for growing anything except for tomatoes that were the best I've ever had. My two yr. old container fig,(green unknown),that had 3 crops last year with 42 figs on the last crop produced only one crop of 8 figs this year. I moved my spring cuttings inside just in time. We are having 50 MPH winds right now after rain all day.

Thanks to all you Posters for the education and inspiration.

Peg

Just came up on all the postings about Hardy Chicago fig not being true to name. I purchased a Hardy Chicago fig from a nursry about 4 to 5 years back. No longer remember the name of the nursery. I planted the fig on the south side of our house in the V where the chimnney is. So it should have more then enough heat. But every year 90% of the figs never ripen. Around the first week of November we get maybe two or three ripe figs. All the rest are then killed by the frost. It's a shame that some wholesalers out there do not care whether or not they are selling a true item or not. I had been wondering what was wrong with the tree. Then when it did not ripen all the crop this last summer, I stated to think it had been labeled wrong. To make matters worst I ahve been giving out cutings to other fig lovers, who now also are thinking they have a Hardy Chicago. I'm going to dig the whole thing up, and replace it with soemthing like Violetta, as soon as I can find a true source of Violetta. Or a fig that is hardy as Violeta and ripens like Violetta in July. I have read that Violetta is hardy to minus 5 degrees and ripens in July. From all the research I have done in the last two years on hardy figs, Violetta appears to be the most cold hardy fig and the earliest to ripen, that I have been able to identify. I'm in a zone 6 in Connecticut. So from what I have read about the real Hardy Chicago, I do not have the true Hardy Chicago. Does any one have any information on a fig called Northland. Such as how hardy it is and when it's main crop ripens? Bob Harper

hi bob,
now that i look at these figs they look an
awful lot like the unknown variety of mine from italy
that never matures and just as you said it ripened
three figs in late nov.
the thing i'm curious about is i too i have it planted
in the v of the chimney . could it be that this is not
an ideal condition? i also get a lot of die back.
i have friends that do absolutley nothing to their
trees and always harvest something and some from
what i can see are not on south side and sometimes
in the middle of the yard. go figure.

marcantonio

Hi all, it being a little cool outside and not feeling well I started reading about one of my favorite subjects FIGS. In reading I read how a lot of you fig growers are uncertain about what kind of fig you thought you had, Why dont one of you take a well proven fig tree and send rooted cuttings to other growers in at least 6 different areas of the US, that has different climate, soil, and all the other different things that control the growth and development of a fig tree, and all 6 keep records and all report regular on line to all the others all about your trees progress and after say three years, compare all you have to see did all still look alike and produce the same fruit. Also can photos still prove them to be the same or did all the differences in location, soil, climate, and care change them in some way. Now I opened my huge mouth, so please follow this with your comments. SAy what you like Id love to read whether you are true fig lovers or--------HA-HA-HA.

@Bob

I assume you mean the Swiss variety "Nordland Bergfeige" with your fig called Northland.

That's what I've found on different pages:
Warm, sunny, protected and not to dry south walls.
The fig tolerates temperatures of -12 to -15º C.(5 - 12 °F)
Tasty and sweet red-violet fruits.
Harvest time: August until Octobers

Here is a link that might be useful: Northland

They may not look alike but it would be interesting to see what the DNA results would say if a cutting from a real SalÂs Corleone fig from Belleiclare were sent to LSU. Who can say for sure if any or all of the others that have been passed around from other sources are the real deal or not. At this point I am just so thankful that I got mine from George knowing he got it directly from Belleiclare.

I know I said it more than once in emails but thanks again George. I canÂt wait till itÂs big enough to start producing fruit.

I was looking thru some old threads and found this one.
Anyways i bought my Sals from EL sold to me as a Sals,
here is picture.
{{gwi:823867}}
I already miss the taste of these figs especially the rich taste of Hardy Chicago, the Sals turned out nice for drying as it is more sweeter. Brings anxiety to me for next season with this snow on the ground now and the coldest air so far coming later this week with more snow predicted for wednesday night.
Best Health
Martin
Here is the Sal's fruit nice and ripe although fruit came out darker than should of with camera
{{gwi:823264}}
Here is Hardy Chicago i bought from Paradise Nursery's
Fruit picture came out dark with this darn camera, its a nice violet blueish color
{{gwi:788897}}
and the leaf of Hardy Chicago
{{gwi:809694}}

Well Martin thanks to you I have a HC & EL Sal's

Here they are ain't they cute? :-)Notice the killer roots.
{{gwi:829764}}

Cecil,
hope they do well for you in your warmer climate, it will be nice to compare leaf shape one day as i have heard that fig tree's tend to look a little different in other area's.
My neighbors Sal;s 2 seasons old this past summer produce about 3 dozen or so figs and it took longer than mine to go dormant as he had his pot on grass and when he went to move it to store he could not his son much bigger than me was able to as the roots grew into ground , he enjoyed the taste a lot .
Martin