Kate,

I hope you get your wish and everyone plays nice. I do not believe in Global warming or climate change. My reasons are quite simple. The temperature on Earth has varied through the years as long as we have kept track of it. There have been many little ice ages through the history of Earth. I also remember as a kid in NY a summer that had many 100 degree or over days. I remember clearly because it was so hot that summer I suffered from heat stroke anytime I stayed out too long. Even passed out several times at Hershey park. Now just because I do not believe in Global warming does not mean I think we can just waste energy...as far as I know we have not come up with any inexhaustible supplies of fuel, and the population is growing constantly. I'm more worried about our water supply than our energy consumption. I wish the politicians would bring more attention to our shortening supply of water which is a real concern as opposed to global warming which is not proven. Water is a problem, Florida and Georgia were fighting over water rights just last year.

If it's Global Warming then why did friends visiting from St. Louis three years ago have to be hospitalized from heat stroke during Spring Traing baseball games (while we were cold at the games this year.)

I'm thinking weather trends vs. global warming. All I know is my veggies taste better than usual, and my herbs that would be toast by now are surviving because the weather has been cooler.

Danny tells me there will be floods all over the midwest because of the floods in N.D. He's seen it time and again over.

Global warning or weather patterns?

I'm with trinigemini. This seems to be an Al Gore thing and I'm not really sure his movie was based on facts. I guess at my age, I'm just tired of being told what to do.I mean the Gov't once told me to "duck and cover" and that would protect me.
I also think that since Florida gets 2 invasive exotic plants or animals a month, that that would be a bigger problem along with the water storage problem.
I want to be the best steward of the land that I can be.
I also thought turning off my lights for an hour was stupid.
OH OH here it is...
DON'T MAKE A STATEMENT.....MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

"duck and cover"... BRILLIANT :-)

I remember practicing 'duck and cover' in grade school! I still have a vision of the nuns making us huddle under our desks but all they did was turn their backs to the windows as if the nun's habit would offer all the protection they needed!

I'm still struggling with the whole global warming thing but I don't understand the anger it generates in some people. Some of the facts are impossible to ignore; it seems to me that it's the interpretation that can go several ways.

• Climate change doesn't mean that every day will be warmer than last year or 10 years ago, it just means that average temps will increase over time.

• The glaciers are receding and in some cases disappearing. The change has been dramatic. That is a fact. Whether it's just a normal fluctuation or a sign of impending disaster is open to interpretation.

• Someone said recently that only some glaciers are receding while some are growing. I did google searches under every key word I could think of and didn't find a single case of a glacier increasing in mass. If someone has that information, please post it because I would like to check it out.

• While science can show that there have been many natural fluctuations in climate over the millenia (sp?), the numbers seem to show that this change has been much quicker. Again, this is where interpretation of the numbers comes in. More study seems like a good idea.

• Who benefits from lying about this? I've seen accusations that the whole climate change theory is a liberal conspiracy but I don't get that. I admit to being pretty liberal on many social issues, but I'm a conservative on most financial ones. I don't think most big business is evil, even when choices are made that hurt some employees. It seems to me that Big Oil would naturally take a stance against accusations that they are causing global warming, but that's only a small part of the theory of climate change. Why is the everyday gardener ("the-man-in-the-garden") so adamant that this is all a liberal plot? Seriously, I'm not generally considered to be stupid by people who know me well, but I don't get this. I'm listening if you want to enlighten me!

• I think there's some confusion about Earth Hour. Earth Hour is the brain child of the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) the world's largest animal protection/conservation group. They are non-governmental and are supported by millions of people, liberal and conservative alike. The event, in it's 3rd year, wasn't meant to save energy or to teach people to live without TV for an hour. The idea was that if there was a drop in energy use during that hour it would be a message that people are concerned about wasteful energy consumption and possible climate change issues. It was timed so that the results could be presented to the United Nations Climate Change...

Kate, Like you I tend to be a social liberal but a financial conservative. I tend to distrust anything I see in the news...even CNN proved itself to me to be nothing more than tabloid TV when they ran that stupid Anna Nicole story for months on end. I think what people have to remember is that we have not been keeping track of temperature for that long and it has been inconsistent at that. A few hundred years if even that long. Think about how we would get weather information from places like africa and the middle east, where the entire country is unstable it is hard to get accurate information even pertaining to weather at least thats what I heard somewhere...I think it was my environmental law class but I can't be sure. I think I was also watching discovery channel once where they did a special on greenland or the glaciers or something. But they had mentioned that before way in earth's history...greenland was green and was not covered with the ice it is now. Now that ice is starting to melt....but it's not like it was always there. And don't they also say that most of the earth was covered in Ice once which is how cavemen traveled from one continent to the other?

Many people on this forum are proponents of organic gardening (another good topic for an open discussion!) and I wonder if they have similar opinions about climate change.
I certainly do - I really liked your well written message, thank you!
I too do not understand why this topic is considered "librul" conspiracy...Maybe, I do not get it - and just like you, Kate, I have a science background and currently working towards a PhD. If anyone is willing to present the facts on the conspiracy - I am honestly willing to listen and be open minded to learn the fact...
ALL I want is to do my part to protect the environment and keep our planet clean...
My husband and I recycle and conserve anything that is possible, because we feel that is the right thing to do...Why is it conspiracy, why is it a bad thing?

It might be the case that we are looking at the issue from different prospective. From my perspective, whether the climate change is proved or disproved (which, for the planet, would definitely be better), anything "green" that comes out of it, cant hurt this planet and us!

By now most people are aware that the founder of The Weather Channel, John Coleman, said global warming is "the greatest scam in history".
There is so many scientific and political evidence that
Global warming caused by human activities is a scam.
I suggest that any one who wishes to find the truth on this topic to do a search in google or any other search engine using phrases such as "global warming fraud" and other similar wording and read it for yourself. There are frightening reasons of what will happen to our country if
the ultra liberals have their way. There are many natural
factors that causes earth climate to fluctuate. If an apple falls on our head let's not scream" the sky is falling".
Felix

I'm not thinking liberal conspiracy. I just mentioned Al Gore.
However this administration has discussed taxing us on how many miles we drive, raising taxes on fuel, taking other action that seems questionable all under the guise of being "greener"
The truth is cars are much cleaner now and so is the air.
Lawn mowers on the other hand pollute big time but I don't want the Gov't controlling them.
In related news: USF is building a lab to test for global warming.

Kate,

Your last message what so well written. I too have wondered why certain people get so worked up at the prospect of global warning. Their posts are so filled with denial that I wondered what was behind it.

Countrynest, your response is still filled with rhetoric and does not give us any enlightenment as to why you feel this way. I almost sense fear behind your statements. Why is it so impossible for you to believe there is global warming without it being a political arena? I don't understand the correlation between the two. Many on your side of the fence can not explain their stance...more like just spewing out phrases. Making statements without explanation. What does global warming represent to the conservatives? Do you feel something would be taken away from you?

I have discussed this with a few people on my side of the fence, and they seem to think that the denial is money based. That if we believe in global warming, the government will impose severe restrictions on big business. Big business, restrictions, not cost effective=somebody being hurt in the pocket. Is this what it's all about? Leave us alone to do whatever we want so that we can make some bucks?

I did participate in the Earth hour and try to live my life to have the softest impact on our beloved earth. No politics involved, just respect for our mother nature.

Wanda,we all do rhetorics,including you. One defenition of
Rhetoric is the art of using language as a means to persuade. Even the acusation of rhetoric is rhetoric.
Now to the question of why I and many others get so excited over the lie(rhetoric) of global warming. Yes I am scare,scare of the "change"(rhetoric)that our government
will get larger making all of our decission and forcing us
to live in a society with no liberty. I rather die than lose my liberty. I have lived in a communist society and I get very emotional to see the freedom that I enjoyed and I see that it is disapearing. I believe in conservation just don't force it on me but educate me. There are so many scientific facts backed by a multitude of scientist whom the media and other ,yes,politicalforces that are shutting up the facts to the point that lives are at stake. Positions are at at stake.
I pointed for you to do the research,I do not have the time to do it for you. I'm gardening,he he he.
The push of global warming is for governments to do the pushing and implementation of policies and LAWS to dictate to you and me how we should conduct ourselves. That is politics,absolute politics, nothing else but politics.
Global warming represent to the conservative a weapon being used by the liberal establishment to cause fear of inpending doom in order to control the masses. That is an explanation in a nutshell.
Liberty will be taken. Yes,it also involves money. The greatest transfer of money ever seen.
If you look into the research as I said above you will be enlighten. Our climate is changing but is being changed by factors beyond our control. For instance the sun flareups and factors that has to do with the tilting of the earth on it's axis. Many other factor that just like in thousands of years ago the earth went into a glacier age. The process continues. BUT! I do not worry about our cimatic change nor our political change not even my getting older and losing my health. Because the same one that created the earth will keep it as it should. He sets up Kings and puts down kings and kingdoms. From dust I come and to dust I shall return. My spirit will return
to God.
If you choose to believe these fine but if you choose not to believe it that's fine also. For we have choices.
Choices I want to have and not be forced to do what I do not want to do if it lines with the Bible.
I hope that I have answer your questions and given you some enlightment.
Forgive me for spelling errors,that part of my brain
is not working well,he he he!
Felix

Mars and other planets in our solar system have also been heating up...so unless there are humans hiding out there that we don't know about the increased temps on earth have nothing or very little to do with us humans. the increase is due to solar flares up on the sun and other things...it has nothing to do with human activity on earth. I also question the motives of people who go on and on about global warming like Al Gore and then proceeds to use much more energy in his daily life than the average person.... even his home uses much more energy that an average person. It burns me up that he goes on about preaching and then believes because he buys carbon credits that its okay. If carbon was a problem then how is one person using more and another using less solving the problem when the net usage is the same? All this does is allow the rich to use and waste energy while the poor suffer. i think the Kyoto Protocol is just political propaganda. It does nothing to stop the pollution it merely attempts to hold the current pollution levels the same. I truly believe that nothing we do affects the earth that much. Oh we may kills some species to extinction and use more resources than we need, but the fact remains that the Earth will recover. maybe not in our lifetimes, but the only one we humans hurt with our pollution is ourselves (and other creatures). When we drive ourselves to extinction with overpopulation and overuse of resources, the earth will rebound and reclaim our cities. I mean here in Florida in our own yards we battle nature all the time.....rarely if ever do we win for long and it takes constant vigilance to tame the earth. Have you ever seen abandoned lots....the vegetation starts to take over very quickly. So while we may pollute and make the air unusable for ourselves....the Earth will adapt change and survive. I think politicians need to start putting it in that perspective. "Don't overuse fuel because your air will smell bad and make you sick". But politicians want to scare people into believing the Earth will suffer which is just not true.

. I truly believe that nothing we do affects the earth that much. Oh we may kills some species to extinction and use more resources than we need, but the fact remains that the Earth will recover.

I hope you are right. I do not agree with it, but would love to be proved wrong - I sure hope you are right...

And for those who could care less about the rate of species extinction and pollution of water and air, maybe the selfish reason of preserving one's health would be motivating:
From National Institure of Health: Cancer and the Environment
Or another link, on the same topic
Or, google "micropollutants in water" to learn more about the water we drink...Incidentally, my best friend is doing her PhD on the topic- it is scary that water filtration we use today is inadequate at filtering out micropollutants such as antibiotics, hormones and pesticides - and they all go straight to you and I to drink...
Here are a few random links:
http://www.lmvp.org/Waterline/fall2003/changingface.htm
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/Publications.htm?seq_no_115=202291
http://phs99.blogspot.com/2005/06/floridas-water-crisis.html

And speaking of species extinction - a rather interesting read
Or, this lovely chart...
{{gwi:2102742}}

And honestly, if we are so keen on "taming the Earth", maybe we as a species deserve to go extinct - and sure thing, the planet will rebound, over a course of thousands and thousands of years. But at what cost?

Olya, thats exactly what I'm saying it may take thousands of years for the Earth to recover from human habitation....but I believe that it will. I have no proof of that other than what I see when I leave my yard alone :-) Although when major volcanoes erupt which has happened in history they spew much more pollutants into the air than we do and while that disaster usually has horrible consequences for people....the earth is just fine as it just burped up some gas which has probably been bugging it for sometime :-)Also when we have used nuclear weapons, the people died and suffered but the earth is recovering. And we might take all the current species of wildlife down with us, but somethings will survive and adapt and life will go on...just without us...and honestly if we destroy all life on earth...then we deserve to perish. Now does this mean Global warming? No to me its just wasting the resources that are finite, like water. Species aren't dying out by the thousands because its getting warmer...they are dying because their habitats are being polluted and getting smaller. I think in the scheme of things global warming is not much of a factor in destroying the earth...we have bigger problems and I wish the focus would shift to those.

I forgot to say that the chart above does not take into account the mass extinction that occurred in the time of the dinosaurs. Didn't almost all life on earth end then.....and there are theories it was due to a volcanic eruption. :-)

forgot to say that the chart above does not take into account the mass extinction that occurred in the time of the dinosaurs.
You right, it does not. The chart does show an alarming trend: a clear dependency between the growth of world population and the rate of extinction

World population chart:

Species extinction chart
{{gwi:2102742}}

While I am not disputing the fact of mass extinction, I am merely trying to point out that is a rare, independent, and not a very relevant event to depict for the second chart. It is not to say, the event should be disregarded - no, but it adds little importance to the current discussion (of our species impacting and , in my opinion, destroying our planet)

I was just pointing out that even if almost all life on Earth died Earth would recover and be repopulated. I also agree that human population growth leads to the decline of other species....but I do not believe it is due to global warming. It is due to urban sprawl which diminishes their habitat which also gets polluted by human waste whether or not we directly move into their area. I'm not saying that because there is no global warming there is no problem. I'm just saying the problems are alot more complex and comlpicated than the Earth supposedly heating up.

Oh, I am not a global warming fanatic - if it is disproved, great, good for us. However, I am all for turning attention to what we, the humans, do to this planet and how negatively we have been affecting this planet.
Whether we go under the slogan of global warming, or go after ocean and air pollution, it does not matter to me.
The bottom line remains: we , as one species, through our carelessness and selfishness, are quite capable of destroying this beautiful planet, and we are doing so quite remarkably.

I agree.

Your response, countrynest, has given me some insight into the feelings behind the denial of global warming. You also stated in this post that you do believe our climate is changing but that it is not man made. So basically, you don't want to be blamed (as a member of humanity) for what is happening because it might impose restrictions on you.

As for doing research on climate change, it's not necessary for me. I didn't ask for proof of climate change, I asked what drives a person to make adamant statements regarding this subject and what it represents to them. I believe in climate change and witness it on a daily basis. And if I were to do research, I certainly wouldn't google "global warming fraud". How jaded is that?

As for big government imposing on us, believe me, I understand how you feel. The previous administration did a great job of trying to take away many of our civil liberties. But, I digress. I'll meet you over at Hot Topics for that one.

In the meantime, happy gardening.

Well I am impressed with the banter back and forth on the subject of global warming. It is a linguistic moniker given to a series of events that are categorically causing stresses on the planet, changing weather patterns caused by severe habitat alterations including; water withdrawal, clear cutting, controlled burning, air and water pollution, particulate matter air pollution, just to name a few.

If we as a race of individuals were not here would some of these characteristics still exist. Sure, some dominant species would take over an area of the planet and alter the balance there, perhaps that species would spread itself over vast territories and the entire dynamic of those regions would be altered.

The point I want to make is that as you all state, nature repairs itself. Given time and our absence (why do we have to be absent?). I have children, soon maybe grandchildren and I can not conceivably leave them a tainted environment, when by my actions I can prevent or repair damage caused by past and perhaps present decisions.

I believe that living on earth is a test. We are given a life supporting paradise and asked to care for it no matter what entity we believe in. Our management skills have been overshadowed by words some people get hung up on, like liberal, conservative etc... When did you last here about a corporation that imposed strict environmental standards on themselves without pressure from some outside influence. If all people had the sense to see the need to use resources wisely than there would be no need for any kind of oversight whether governmental or citizen based.

Whether or not you believe the hype of global warming or just feel that nature will take the course of eliminating us from the equation, I don't want to see my children's future eliminated because of a lack of understanding on my part.

I want to go on record that I think it is all peoples responsibility to care for what we have inherited from previous generations and to see ourselves as part of the solution not just the on going problem.

I am not a believer in things just because someone tells me that its so, I can see, feel and hear for myself. I see, hear and feel a planet that is crying out for a little concession, and I am going to do my best to help the cause.

If anyone wants to affix a label on me, let them do so. I am hurt only when people fail to feel the stirrings of an overburdened environment. We as gardeners know the enjoyment and fulfillment of assisting nature to support diversity. Let us hope enough of us exist to produce a future filled with these opportunities.

zoozue - those last 2 sentences are so eloquent - thank you for writing that!

I think it's funny(& a pity) that there seems to be a lack of awareness of just how much $$ has been spent by large polluting industries & their legislative allies to create the idea of a 'debate'& 'doubt' over the scientific fact of global climate change - down to the success of promoting the term 'global warming' over more accurate 1s....

Here is a link that might be useful: SourceWatch.org

I don't know what your problem is with Felix. I can swear he is a good stewart of the land. He even raises bees and is very concerned about the loss of hives in Florida.

I don't know how you witness climate change on a daily basis.

I get the $$$$$ connection. I am aware of the golden rule. He who has the gold makes the rules. That's why I believe Big Sugar destroys more of Florida than global warming. I also believe building will never stop just because we don't have enough water for anyone.

I have never gotten the oriental need to destroy rhinos, whales or any other living creature for a powdered aphrodesiac, but that's not global warming either.

I do have a problem with some of this administrations solutions, like this ethanol one. I also don't want to be taxed on the miles I drive or have a huge increase on the gas tax to make me drive less.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ethanol

I don't know what your problem is with Felix. I can swear he is a good stewart of the land.
Felix is a good and sweet man - I enjoy his posts on the Florida Gardening forum...BUT: I will refrain from talking to Felix about anything rather than the Florida gardening...Felix has views that are radically different from mine - on Hot Topics forum I made it a rule for myself not to respond to any threads he starts...Because I want to continue enjoying his posts on the Florida Forum and his responses to mine...
Without knowing Felix here on the Gardenweb, I would have a very different idea of him from his non-garden topics :)
The bottom line, no one is perfect, and no poster should be expected to "know" the other person as "such and such" :)

Ok,there are different views but why attack him for his views when Kate said to play nice?

Agreed, no attacks should be coming from either side
Olya

I think it is a huge mistake to start making fuel out of food.

Some of you guys make me laugh,I'm serious about it. Now that is a contradiction,laugh and serious.
Wanda,you are right,I do not want to be blamed for destroying our planet for all my life I have been a good steward of the gift that God has given me. Now, I do not want to be gullible to the opinions that the media is pushing. At the same time I am concern for how men has corrupted our physical enviroment and spiritual. But we can not legislate out of our existence our precious liberties. Wanda,I'll meet you in the school yard after school. Lol. (just kidding I'm a lover not a fighter.)
Coffeemon,you are so sweet to come to my defence. I am really touch. Why is everybody always picking on me? LOL
Olya, I love your passion for the cats and I have always like you and want to meet you one day. You say I'm radical.
But if Being led by the words of the Bible is radicle then Yes,I'm radical. On hot topics I have come to the defence
of traditional values that the western civilization has had
for a longgg time. Our society has changed drastically and what was sin way back it is still sin. For mens personal opinions are not what I follow but the word of God. That is why I can love a prostitute,a drug addict,an adulterer,
a murderer,a sodomite and so on. I do hate sin. I've also discussed the killing of babies and my distaste for the current administration. I also disliked Bush's policies.
So as others here can perceive that is not radical. For our forefathers had the same views. Today "looking bad"
means looking good. "You are bad" means you are good.
We are living in a bizzarro world where what is traditional
is called radical. But Olya, If you and I were to meet,
You would feel very confortable. I do not bring sensitive
topics into the conversation for I know that it ruffles feathers. But what many people do not understand is that all people have a God given right to their own opinion.
I'm not a judge and each one has a free will. I do not want my government to take that from me. Also I do not push my faith on anyone at the same time I do not want someone to push a new version of religion. People now
have a religion where mother earth also known as gaia,
spelling. I love nature as a gift from the God of Abraham,
Issak and Jacob. In the Bible it states that in the end time people will worship the creature rather than the
Creator.
Olya I hope we can be friends in spite of our views.
Our common love is gardening so we can talk gardening and I will hate to hurt you or anyone else.
Oh,am I still playing nice? Hey I'm human. If I had achieve perfection there would be no reason to continue
on earth ich is my school.
Felix

Felix,

Loved the comment "Meet you in the school yard after school".

Wanda

Wanda,how well I remember those threats. I always avoided
those bloddy nose confrontations specially when they were bigger guys. he he he

I have a science background, so for me, there isn't a big debate for me.

Thoughts:
1: Al Gore. The movie was too fluffy. I realize he was trying to reach out to the broader audience, but it wasn't enough science for me. Call me a geek....

2: Ethanol. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Not thought out properly. So, we convert our farm fields to this ethanol corn and South American is destroying rainforests in order to grow corn for said new fuel....we need to be feeding people with corn.

3: Listening to pundits online or on tv isn't the way to go. If you really want to understand global warming read a scientific publication. Be careful on listening to a non-global warming scientist...many are in the pockets of big businesses.

4: There is a huge difference is weather patterns versus climate change. It annoys me to no end to listen to this yearly when the north gets too much snow and they complain about 'where's global warming??!', when the bigger picture is noticing when the earliest signs of spring are, when does winter start, noticing the migration of the birds, plants that are moving northward that used to have a southern limit. THESE are the changes you should be noticing. It's called phenology. US Phenology Network.

5: I know some people mentioned here that just because they don't 'believe' in global warming that doesn't mean they don't care about the environment, which is great. I like to hear that. I can't stand to hear people go off that they don't believe in global warming so it doesn't matter if they drive their car the world over, or throw their cigarette out the window, or leave litter on the beach. Trash and pollution have huge impacts that are costing us taxpayers a lot of money every year. If you don't 'believe' in global warming, at least recycle, reuse, grow your own food (easy on this forum!), and find better alternatives to chemicals you use around your house. You can make the area around you healthier at least!

6: Trinigemini, I'm going to point you out here, sorry...you said something about the government just wants to make you think the Earth will suffer but that you don't think that is true. The earth IS suffering from everything we do. With 6+billion people, we have a huge footprint. This isn't the wild where there are other predators to take us out. We're conquering diseses all of the time, which IS good, but it's also allowed us to continue on the path we are. So say, if the many third world countries were to be brought into first world status, do you not think that they would exploit their natural resources to the point that we already have? Damming rivers, relocating water, pushing plants and animals into extinction, polluting cities, producing mounds of trash. This will happen. It's inevitable if we keep increasing our population. There is a threshold of having a balance of keeping our ecosystem in a shape that still benefits us but also allows it to survive, and then we can keep going because if we have supposed...

mistiaggie, I believe the Earth is suffering....but even if we humans have no predators to take us out...I think we ourselves will take us out....by everything you have mentioned...the pollution, the lack of resources combined with growing populations. I just don't think that global warming is whats going to kill us off. I think we will destroy ourselves way before the Earth heats up enough to do it for us. And after we are gone and the Earth has had time to recuperate from us differnt species will take over.

"Be careful on listening to a non-global warming scientist...many are in the pockets of big businesses."

The warning above means to me "No Scientific DEBATE on "Global warming" . The pro Global warming scientist are in the pocket of liberal governments. The non global warming scientists are being silence by the mass media and being black mailed and black listed. Some losing grants and positions. I have a Bachelor in science but no big deal. People with no education are being put down by those that did get a liberal education in liberal colleges.
How well do I remenber how socialistic most of my educators were. Those with no education also can see the situation at hand and make a valid decision.
Plants moving north? I keep trying but Florida citrus belt
keeps going south. Global warming is a theory that liberals are passing it as facts. Same with Evolution,a theory not a fact. It has not been able to be replicated in a lab. In a time of global economic chaos,throwing money after a theory,when people are hurting economically in my opinion is very unwise. Of course it would not cost us anything to be good stewarts of our enviroment. All in balance.
Conserning population,well, what is the answer? Are we to pass laws as in China? Force sterilization? Invent epidemics, going to war,encourage same sex relations?
If we think like this we could go crazy as our governments are doing by creating a "bizzarro world" . Scare tactics create chaos.

Felix

Wow, Felix, I feel like you didn't even listen to what I said.

As for liberal colleges and degrees, I went to a hugely conservative school, Texas A&M, which by the way has the George Bush library. So, how's that for liberal? Oh, and the Texas governor, Rick Perry, graduated from there, another huge conservative. So, thanks for the broad sweeping generalizations.

People who do not have an education generally take all of their information from the news sources which in general skew things and want to make a big story. They do not research topics thoroughly. Of course, people living their life in general aren't or may not make this a priority, if you're living in poverty the last thing you are worried about is what Al Gore has to say on the news, you are worried about feeding you and your children and keeping a roof over your head.

But, the vast majority of people with at least a high school education, decent career bases have the potential and resources to actually make valid attempts at researching information correctly and then making a judgement on it.

Maybe some of these scientists who are losing grants and positions are doing so because they cannot produce research that adequately backs up their statements and hypothesis??? Please, I would like to see a link to information of a professor/researcher who this has happened to. If you can support what you are saying I would completely be more willing to listen to your side of the argument.

As for populations....no, I'm not of the mind of forcing people to have sterilizations or limiting the amount of children you have, but I know people who do think that way. I do believe in the power of free will. However, I do believe that with better education there will be more people having less children (unless you are the Duggar's!). With birth control being available more, especially in developing countries, the continued growth of populations would be able to stabilize.

Show me one legitimate non-global warming scientist WHO IS NOT on the payroll of Big Oil or Big Business and I will gladly listen to them. Heck, show me one that is on the National Academy of Sciences. I will take an honest look at it. If you can't provide that, then I really can't take you seriously.

Mistiaggie,Please understand that I am not attacking you.
person or inteliggence. Also to a conservative as myself when you throw names like our former president,George Bush,
Is not making a statement of conservativeism. Bush was very active in big government,mass population control and
bringing us closer to socialism.
I have seen very good videos and read very good data on global warming being the biggest scam.I consumed all of it
for my own study and have not kept a list for you or for me to reference later on. I wish I did. Also my limitations
due to the stroke makes my finding things harder. I apologise but here are some scientists that are not on the global warming scare machine: Timothy F. Ball, former Professor of Geography, University of Winnipeg;Robert M. Carter, geologist, researcher at the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University in Australia;
Vincent R. Gray, coal chemist, founder of the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition;Hendrik Tennekes, retired Director of Research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute;Antonino Zichichi, emeritus professor of nuclear physics at the University of Bologna and president of the World Federation of Scientists ;Khabibullo Abdusamatov, mathematician and astronomer at Pulkovskaya Observatory of the Russian Academy of Sciences;Sallie Baliunas, astronomer, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics;Reid Bryson, deceased, former emeritus professor of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences, University of Wisconsin-Madiso.
The list of such scientists goes on and on. Onfortunally the media seems to obscure those that are not endorsing the hype. The statistics that Al Gore has given are so exagerated and have been showned.
Felix Becerril

To add coal to the fire so to speak because I really am enjoying this debate. :-) People seem to be playing pretty nice :-)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7984054.stm

Thanks Felix for the list. I will sit down sometime soon and look them up. I did find someone else last night who used to be with Nasa but is now retired but came out more on the 'meh' side of things for GCC and it was interesting to hear what she had to say.

It's funny to hear you didn't like Bush!! I always forget there are people out there who were further right than him! To me, he seemed soooo far right, but that's another debate.

Trini, I heard the ice shelf thing, too.

I just know that many Alaskan native villages are having a rough time with warming right now. I know this for a fact because of my job and listening to discussions about it and it is a serious problem with people who live off the land in the far north. I really wish it was more widely known.

Anyway...;) I think we can agree that bromeliad's don't kill trees at least!

Mistiaggie unfortunately there are alot of native/indigenous problems that are being untold....not just in relation to climate change but many other things. Which is why is gets me so mad when CNN and other major networks run mindless stories over and over again.....Anna Nicoles death...for three months...come on....there is just so much else that goes on. No wonder our population is so uninformed. I dont even watch the news anymore....unless hubby puts it on.

As for the Broms on the trees .... HA :-)

Climate change? And here I thought it was because I was getting older! Who knew!