What are some humane techniques to scare the nuisance cat out of my yard? I live in a city lot and my backyard is completely fenced, but the cat just jumps over the fence obviously. I was thinking of getting a high power water gun but those toys don't really hit a distant target thats runs away as soon as it sees me. Are there any products that contain predator urine so the cat will think a predator is lurking? Again, i'm looking for humane techniques. Not really interested in county Animal Control either, I heard rumors they putdown unwanted nuisance cats. I don't mind if the cat lives around the neighborhood, but I just want it to stop hunting the visiting birds!

I'm a cat lover, as I have 4 cats but they are all indoors. I was just reading a past Yahoo Questions post where someone asked about the high powered water toys to get rid of stray cats, but alot of responses bashed the poster saying it could hurt the cat? They're not made of paper LOL

Gary

I volunteer for this animal rescue organization: http://www.friendsofstrays.org/

If you can capture the kitty, you can take it to the shelter. It's in St. Pete. It's a no-kill shelter and it will be vetted and spayed/neutered, socialized and put up for adoption.

Many times, if a stray is killing birds (or other wildlife) and not eating, it can be due to not learning 'how' to eat from the mother cat, and not because they are not hungry. That's why you can see some very thin and hungry strays. They learn the survival behavior from the mother cat. Instinct allows them to hunt, but they have to learn how to eat the prey.

Leading scientists, and even the Audubon, have determined that urban sprawl, fragmentation of forested ecosystems, the increase in motor vehicles and the related increase in roads, and the use of pesticides, fertilizers and poisons do much more damage to bird and small vertebrate species than do domestic and/or feral cats.

However, cat predation, and its 'supposed' effect on vulnerable species, is frequently used as an argument in situations such as this one.

Live in a small condo and my yard has a wooden fence that the cats scale and walk along. No water hose connection and not many other options. Neighbor leaves his cat outside all day along with food and water and doesn't shoo away strays that make his yard their home. I'm perfectly fine with a non-lethal BB gun. I'd probably get a tent and campout for a chance to take out my frustration on the buggers.

So far the only other things i could think of was planting climbing roses to create a thorny net over the fence or making some sort of critter spray since the store bought ones were worthless.

Gary

I try to stay from these *cat hating* threads.

Olya - feeding FIVE outdoor TNRed cats and refilling 4 bird feeders on regular basis....

I guess I should just shoot them with a non-lethal BB gun, since their parents refuse to keep them inside their house.

sharbear, I'm sure the intentions were just to hunt and kill, kind of like a game. I didn't interrupt anything because I saw him running off with the bird in it's mouth over the fence. I peeked through the fence to see where it went. I later checked the same area where the cat fled, and I saw the dead bird laying there. From what I could see, it didn't look like it was a meal. Actually the same cat was in my backyard about 15 minutes later staring at a pair of Doves on the ground.

I might just have to deal with it though, because a few days ago I saw a friken hawk sitting by my pool. LOL I can't win! As long as my cardinals, bluejays and titmice don't get hurt I'm fine. =)

It's about choosing to be cruel or choosing not to be cruel and knowing the difference.

http://www.messybeast.com/zoonoses.htm

As for how many birds are killed by cats, the answer is "hundred of millions each year". For more information, check out the link below. I've written about this subject many times and, in my own yard, I use a bb gun.

I love all life. I despise people developing and building beyond control, wiping out forests,using pesticides and herbicides without thinking about consequences (just read an article today about the pesticide widely used in the US is linked to "castrating" male frogs...lovely) and wiping out all life that is deemed *unsuitable* for their properties
I despise people who hate cats. We all are entitled to our opinions, don't we :)

I prefer this place to be *personality* free. I like gardening and I want to talk plants, without the ugliness. I do not want to see poster A and think what I think of them - they hate cats, yuck, I would not want to be friends with them! ...but I guess, ignorance is bliss and I just do not want to know it. ..hehehe

As to BB guns (not that cat haters will care) We care for colonies in USF vicinity (no birds there, mostly cement, apartment complexes, dumpsters and feral cats left behind by students who moved on to better and bigger) We trap, neuter, return and feed. The campus allows for TNRed cats. These cats do not bother anyone...

This cat was living peacefully, neutered and vaccinated. One day the caregiver noticed an eye injury. The cat was recaptured and taken to the vet - turns out, it had BB pellets in the eye. The eye since then has been removed.

To each their own...I am not out to change any minds, and thanks for not insisting to change mine.

Good will to all, including the cats that I hope stay out of my yard!

Gary

Well obviously it did!

olya, you have a warm and fuzzy thing going on with cats. Not everyone does.
Some people look at them as nasty, rear end licking, disease carriers.
By taking these cats back, feeding and maintaining a feral colony of cats where their is a high population of people, you are forcing people to live with them.

Bottom line is this. Don't complain about a wild animal that is out in the wild that gets hurt. What if it had been run over by a car?

If you don't want it to get hurt, take it home and keep it in the house.

Look, dear poster - I really have no interest in prolonging this rather tedious discussion. Sure, we have different opinions, on topics well beyond animals. There are plenty of things (I am guessing), you and I, just as an example, disagree on.

If you don't want it to get hurt, take it home and keep it in the house.
I like the spirit. One cannot save every wild animals (possum, skunk, you name it) Wild is wild indeed, as you suggested. So let it be where it is. The only difference I made, I came out and fixed the handful of cats already there, to prevent the future litters...you cannot possibly blame me for every animal, however nasty and icky, that ever done you wrong. For all you know it, I voiced my opinion just like plenty others did - I did not release cats into the wild and I did not feed them to procreate - and you might very well be *barking up the wrong tree*.

With all due respect, I would like to bow out of this (rather pointless) discussion (especially when certain posters choose to become combative and personal) You do not like icky cats, I seem to like them - and it is where it is to remain, so why go on? You cannot possibly hate everyone who likes something you do not.
Adios and good night, shall we?

Gary, thank you for your opinion and concern (and politeness). If one can fix stupid and irresponsible, the problem on unwanted and abandoned animals will go away. Big IF there.

Good luck to all -- and have fun planting and digging in the yard.
Olya

p.s. Dear Original Poster, aren't you glad you asked? :)

oh yeah, and its still "weak." lol

olyagrove is right that we'll never agree, but I felt the other point of view should be made visible too. It's done.

Gary

On a funny note, now RACCOONs are after the bird feeders at night LOL. They actually pulled and broke the plexiglass that holds all the seed inside, so now it's all over the place. Thats a pretty strong raccoon! I went to Atlas Glass today and purchased this material thats like plexiglass but its unbreakable. They told me NASCAR uses this material on their windows. If the raccoon breaks this material, I'm going to go nutts

I'm sure almost everyone has heard about invasive species, boa constrictors, cuban tree frogs, iguanas, etc.

How is this any different than boa constrictors?

To keep this discussion ugly free

The cat (Felis silvestris catus) has been domesticated by people for at least 9,500 years. When it was convenient, cats have been kept around as mouse and rat control.
I find it ridiculous to insist that the feline is invasive, given the long history of domestication. By the same criteria, we - humans, as a species - are just as invasive. In fact we are. Thanks to evolution, we developed brains (because we could not run fast enough) and have come to dominate all other species...

Gary, I love birds and I have rehabbed birds. What I find appalling is the spirit of "if you mess with my - I will kill ya". Be it a tomato, or form of entertaining (birds)

I believe cats should be kept inside. For their safety. But we are dealing with feral cats, born to abandoned animals. Animals abandoned by a***holes and your fellow citizens. I do not find it very compassionate to kill off every creature that had the misfortune to be born on the streets.
I wish we did not have feral cats having to live and fend for themselves.

I believe in prevention - regardless of whether it people or cats. If we can prevent stupid and misfortune, wonderful. If we failed to prevent, then we need to deal humanely with the problem.

I will agree cats are problem to wild birds when I see us all tackling the leading causes of dwindling of the populations - overpopulation of people, destruction of habitats, excessive use of pesticides....

My opinion. Thanks. No need to dice and slice it and point out every *perceived* flaw. Opinions are that they are....opinions. I am not telling everyone to stop believing in gods, am I?!

How is a feral colony of cats any different than a feral colony of boa constrictors?

Both are released non-native pets, both eat mice and rats, both should be kept inside for their own safety, both born to abandoned animals, both are invasive, and both displace native animals.

How is it any different?

to re-iterate,

The cat (Felis silvestris catus) has been domesticated by people for at least 9,500 years. When it was convenient, cats have been kept around as mouse and rat control.
I find it ridiculous to insist that the feline is invasive, given the long history of domestication. By the same criteria, we - humans, as a species - are just as invasive. In fact we are. Thanks to evolution, we developed brains (because we could not run fast enough) and have come to dominate all other species...

Are humans invasive? Or do we have to eat mice to qualify?
How long does a species have to live in the habitat to be considered NOT invasive?

And how does this prolonging of the thread helps the OP and her original quest for humane ways of deterring a cat? (If you want a whole new discussion on icky-butt-licking-cats, then maybe you should start one on the Conversations page?)

I haven't seen too many feral colonies of humans released back into the wild. LOL

How is a feral colony of cats any different than a feral colony of boa constrictors?

Since I was a early supporter in the thread of the BB gun method, let me just say, I think we were all supposed to take it with an amount of jest. It probably is the most effective method but I doubt most people would put the time or effort into hunting the "icky-butt-licking-cats."

Don't make message board discussions about your principals and character. This is not the forum for that. And you'll only start a flamewar that'll make you seem unreasonable.

Back OT, there are other ways to make your garden less hospitable to cats. Placing the feeder over water might help, I'd imagine. I had to chase a cat out of my mulched raised bed because my neighbor makes it sleep outside even in these frosts and the strays he feeds chase his own cat out of their yard. No way I can keep him away besides sticking sharp implements in the unplanted squares.

Oh no! I said sharp!

Feral/wild animals are not domesticated.
Wild horses are not domesticated.

Assumption, dear poster. I would rather see no dead birds, and no abandoned animals. And I would much-much rather see this place void of rabid ugly posters - to me, this is a happy *Florida Gardening* place

Happy Gardening. I seriously need to stop looking at this thread :] Have fun duking it out, you all are right.

I have not given my personal opinion about cats at all.
I have not called anyone stupid, ignorant, rabid, or any other names,
and I certainly haven't told anyone to take it somewhere else.

I asked a question.
How is one invasive species any different than any other invasive species?

""Posted by corrie22 (My Page) on Wed, Mar 3, 10 at 8:21

olya, I didn't say all of those things you accused me of saying and did not give my personal opinion on cats at all.""

I live inside a preserve.
Fish and Wildlife considers feral cats an invasive species.
Feral cats are not allowed here where I live.

Again, you can tell yourself that shooting a BB gun is "harmless". It is not. It is cruel and punishable in most counties. If you are fine with that, that's your flaw and your conscience.

Also, physics easily disputes your claim of "no harm" by deliberating shooting a BB gun at an 8-10lb animal. Physics is not an emotional opinion - it's math and science.

But, if you need more convincing, Florida law says anyone is guilty of animal cruelty who "unnecessarily overloads, overdrives, torments ... or unnecessarily mutilates, or kills any animal."

I'm pretty sure...shooting a BB gun at a cat would fit the legal definition of cruelty:

Florida's animal cruelty statute (Florida State Statute 828.12) lays out what constitutes misdemeanor and felony animal cruelty:

Misdemeanor: A person who unnecessarily overloads, overdrives, torments, deprives of necessary sustenance or shelter, or unnecessarily mutilates, or kills any animal, or causes the same to be done, or carries in or upon any vehicle, or otherwise, any animal in a cruel or inhumane manner, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or both.

Felony: A person who intentionally commits an act to any animal which results in the cruel death, or excessive or repeated infliction of unnecessary pain or suffering, or causes the same to be done, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $10,000, or both.

Source: Florida State Statutes 2009

Oh, just for fun...here's more info:

http://www.floridaanimallaw.com/

Again, if you need more info, I'm happy to provide you with a physics equation outlining terminal velocity of projectiles which explains the soft tissue damage and/or permanent injury and/or death that a small animal target can obtain.

Now, regarding the "psuedo-research on song birds killed by cats", it's a flawed and outdated study by Churcher/Lawton. Most modern environmental scientists have debunked their claims of holding cats 100% responsible for impacting songbird population declines.

Loads of interesting reading and links to articles on this topic here:

http://www.stanford.edu/group/CATNET/articles/understd_pred.html

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html/cat_predation.html

Regarding, the Boa-Python, monitor lizards et al, those reptiles are an invasive, exotic species. Cats are considered companion animals as they are considered domesticated. Pythons are not domesticated -- even those that live happily with people.

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission requires licensing, permits and HUMANE methods of killing the pythons. Also, since the hunting is in the Everglades National Park - the key word being "national" which means, native species are protected by FEDERAL LAWS, ie: non-native, exotic, invasive species can be eradicated, ie: pythons. This can be done legally. And, with Federal and State funding.

You're obviously just flame-baiting the conversation by trying to steer the discussion into that direction. But, in case I am mistaken, I thought I'd try to explain the obvious to you.

More info is here: http://www.nps.gov/ever/index.htm

I'm certainly not anyone's moral compass - nor do I wish to be - but, cruelty is cruelty. You do actually know this - you're just choosing to rationalize your actions.

According to the Global Invasive Species Database,
out of the top 100 world's worst alien invasive species,
they list feral cats as number 38.

http://www.issg.org/database/species/search.asp?st=100ss&fr=1&str=&lan g=EN

I lost! ROTFLMBO

" Even the Gods are helpless against ignorance ".....

I'm certainly not anyone's moral compass - nor do I wish to be - but, cruelty is cruelty. You do actually know this - you're just choosing to rationalize your actions.

You're obviously just flame-baiting the conversation by trying to steer the discussion into that direction.

Second:
Consequently, persons who release cats into the wild or who maintain feral cat colonies could be found liable for a take under section 9 of the ESA if maintenance of feral cats in the wild is found to kill or injure wildlife by degrading habitat.
Persons who trap cats for the purpose of TNR have possession, charge, or custody of those animals, and therefore are the owners under Florida law. When those persons subsequently release the cats back into the wild, they are abandoning them.

Here is what feral cats do for us:
Rabies*
Feline Leukemia Virus
Feline Panleukopenia (feline distemper)
Feline Infectious Peritonitis
Feline Immunodeficiency Virus
Feline Viral Upper Respiratory Disease
Cat-scratch Disease*
Toxoplasmosis*
Lyme Disease*
Roundworms*
Hookworms*
Plague*
*Transmissible to humans

Legality of shooting the disease ridden vermin:
The shooting could fall into a legal gray area in which police can't make an arrest unless an officer witnessed it, Holmes said.
"If an allegation of a firearm being discharged doesn't occur in the presence of a police officer, the officer cannot make an arrest, under state law," Holmes said.

I could also trap them and take them to be euthanized if that'll make you happy, but from now on I won't give them the chances I did before to learn to avoid my property.

THEY KILL BIRDS WHETHER THEY ARE AT A FEEDER OR NOT, so don't be so STUPID (your word you used for me).

More info for you to ignore:
CONCLUSION
Florida is a state with many native endangered and threatened species. Some, like the
Lower Keys marsh rabbit, Key Largo woodrat and some subspecies of beach mice, are teetering
on the edge of extinction. Florida also has an enormous population of non-native, free-roaming
cats. Ironically, the cats, rather than the native wildlife, seem to have the more vocal support.
Proponents of TNR and feral cat colonies have exerted tremendous pressure on local officials to enact ordinances permitting the establishment and maintenance of cat colonies, and in some cases, even to spend taxpayer dollars subsidizing the programs. Unfortunately, many well-intended friends of felines are determined to ignore the evidence that proves such programs do not work, are inhumane to the cats, dangerous to the public, and lethal to Florida’s native wildlife.

Any thread that turns from a discussion into hatred spewing - where people are typing with obvious blood pressure rising, when people threaten to start shooting *dang* cats from now on (because the poster you disagree with cannot be hurt directly, the *logical step* seems to be a threat to hurt the subject of the discussion)..any threat that jumps from OP asking for humane ways of deterring cats , to personal attacks (sure, from both sides) ...and then somehow winds up on religion and abortion (which I most certainly support)

...any thread like that should (my opinion - hate me for it all you want) cease to exists. It is nothing but pure hate.

I practice compassion for all living things, and, having worked and (continuing to) with both animal rescues and wildlife rehabbers, can bet you I saved more animals, on all sides the equation, that most can here imagine.

The bulk of my work (volunteering work) is fostering and taking animals off the streets, when adoptable. To date, I have fostered close to 200 cats that found homes through Tampabay rescues. 200 less animals on the streets, and I am proud of that (it costs Animal Services, on average, 90 dollars, to house, euth, and dispose of an animal otherwise -that is on average of 200 x 90 dollars of tax money saved...and I do not know of ANY TNR programs in Florida that get a dime from a tax payer)
I am sorry, I do not need anyone to preach to me what I should be doing instead.

I ,for one, am happy my lovely garden is not bordering any of yours - and unfortunately, I really would not like - in the future - to participate in any further discussions (garden or otherwise) with some. It is rather unfortunate.

Plenty people willing to debate the topics you brought up.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/hottopics/

I do not think we can damage the relationships and images any more beyond of what has been done...so what the heck. Duke it out.

------------------

Sally, I meant to ask, but wanted to avoid this thread at first ...but since I am at it, pray tell about your roses. I have *always* wanted to try Ebb Tide, but I have stayed away for the possibility of black spot. Is this your first year growing it? Where did you get it?
What a stunning rose - unbelievable color. I wonder if it will bleach in the hot Florida sun.

The rest of us are just having a conversation.

Olya, you sure are bossy.
Considering the name calling and personal attacks started with you and your side, maybe you should take your own advice.
I suggested to cease fire. You might want to call it "bossy"
Pray tell where I started the attacks. I posted my opinion, I confirmed the fact that BB guns can hurt an animal (I did not complain, as you suggested), and you chose to jump all over my response.

Well sure, you have a wonderful day yourself. I myself wont get to your level and wont advertise that since cats are being harmed by you, I will from now on start shooting birds. Neeh, not my kind of thing.

I don't hate cats.

You do not hate cats, well good!

Messages that drew fire were posted before mine. You seem to fixate on my opinions. Strange, but hey, it is a public forum.

As long as you keep replying to me, I'll keep replying to you. LOL

"I try to stay from these *cat hating* threads.
and I do. I stayed away from posting until it was unbearably difficult...cant help it you know! And again, did you feel that this was a message directed at you? I did not wish to single you out, believe me. No interest in poking at any particular poster.

As long as you keep replying to me, I'll keep replying to you. LOL

gotcha...

Nope, dear poster, not at all.

It was your message directed at anyone that disagreed with you. You are the one that lumped anyone that disagreed with you into "cat haters".

If you want to explore the bottom of the barrel, check the mirror.

I spend the vast majority of my time either working hard towards my PhD, or bettering my yard. I came to this country with 50 bucks in my pocket, without a single relative, worked 40-60 hours a week to pay for college.
I graduated with 4.0 and seeking a career in Biomedical engineering, to bring better understanding and possible answers to better us all.

I volunteer when I can, and mostly foster little kittens - which means, taking them off the streets finding them homes.
I do not condone the deaths of any animals. I find it unfortunate that we have to kill cats, but at the same time, this is happening all over the country.
I do my part, a little part, to help those I can.

You know, you might think you have a good opinion of me, or know me in any way.
But I honestly do not think I qualify to be termed bottom of the barrel I know it is hard to stay above calling names - but it is possible.

So if I ignore you, will you go away?! :)

LOL of course not.
When you stop asking me questions or directing replies at me, I will stop answering your posts though.

Just in case anyone is interested, my standard Boca Boys Dry Rub works just as well on feral as domestic cats. And my Jamaican Jerk Rub can take any bird your feeder will lure and make it a tasty appetizer.

Just in case anyone is interested, my standard Boca Boys Dry Rub works just as well on feral as domestic cats. And my Jamaican Jerk Rub can take any bird your feeder will lure and make it a tasty appetizer.

Thank you, we (I think, opinion) a bit of humor to diffuse the situation! hehe :)

I grow mostly antiques and disease resistant shrubs. If you like purples, Burgundy Iceberg and Night Owl have done rather well for me (both going on two years)

Wild Blue Yonder is grandiflora and I have not had very good luck with grandifloras

I just recently ordered two roses from Chamblees. Francis Dubreuil is one of them, and I am looking forward to this rather unusual china. I almost ordered Maggie, and now kind of regret I did not....

Not trying to divert the topic - I do find rose talk interesting.

Personally, I had a similar thought about the social ills going on in the country and the passion displayed here about one species but clearly it's not fair to draw comparisons to animal rights and human rights or to make assumptions about others stances on one based on the other.

I had to go around the garden and pull cat hair off of my seedlings today. There are either too many or one poorly-groomed or sick cat that is shedding nearby. You actually see the fur float by in the air like ash or snow occasionally. It truly is disgusting. Not "cats." But floating cat hair floating over the fence and landing on my future food.

*WARNING* Please don't attack that statement about other animals touching my food because I do KILL insects and rodents with NO regret. I have yet to intentionally harm a cat. *WARNING*

Also, this entire thread did not advocate the use of the BB guns. I believe one poster may have and I jokingly co-signed. Just so that topic isn't revisted as the evil of this thread.

Good info about maintaining feral cats. I believe what my neighbor does may constitute caring for them if he leaves food out knowing several stray cats come into his yard for that purpose. They wait outside his door in the morning and meow, awaiting a meal.

I still plan to use rose bushes in LARGE wall planters to discourage them climbing on my fence. I don't think climbing roses would be all that advantageous because I wouldn't want my thorny plant to be "invasive" on his side of our shared fence. How's that for irony.

What about a bougainvillea or two?

The feeders that leave food out without fixing cats are a menace and do more harm than good. When colonies get huge, and resources are rather limited, and most of the energy is wasted on mating, animals tend to look sick
Unfortunately, trapping and killing off the cats does not discourage the feeder to continue, and pretty soon new cats show up to fill in the void (vacuum effect!)

I get to fight with these *caring* feeders on a regular basis. Not only do they harm the animals by doing the bare minimum, they also give a bad name for any rescue person trying to help - as most unknowing folk who seem to be unhappy about the feeder letting the animals breed without little concern - they seem to lump these feeders with people who (like me) try to reduce the population by socializing, fostering, adopting out, and, as a last resort, fixing and releasing back.

I do not have a problem with Off topic. I suggested Hot Topics, as that is the place where the particular topics suggested (abortion, religion) would get a tremendous following.

I have two DA roses, Pat Austin and...cant remember the name of the second (second image) Both have done great for a few years

I do not spray, so black spot resistance is rather important. Grandifloras seem to go *naked* in summer

From Roses Winter 2008/2009

From Backyard Fall 2008

Now what am I supposed to do about that guys?

Its clear this guy fancies his pet and "outside cat." He won't keep him inside during the day or night. Neutered or not its still a nuisance. I already tried a round critter spray. Next step is for me to have it trapped and taken away. I've spoken to him about it once before and nothing has changed. Gonna take a picture of the cat in the trap and send it to him anonymously. [/twistedhumor]

From Backyard Summer 2009

Right now, lots of new growths on the roses - they sure do like the cold weather

I love China Dolls. I had that I moved carelessly, to a better spot and lost it. My second rose from Chamblees on order is Climbing Pinkie, to put instead of China Doll (they did not have China Dolls) Pretty rose, what a shame to have lost it.

You might be surprised to see this rose...again, cant remember the name and too lazy to out and look. It is a rugosa hybrid! Granted, it is not growing like crazy, but it is managing - and the flowers are so fragrant. I grew up in Russia and the smell of rugosas is very dear to me

From Backyard Summer 2009

If you like purple - and I love purple roses..here is a Burgundy Iceberg. It is, surprisingly, just as vigorous as Iceberg itself. No particular fragrance, but a nice rose to look at ( I planted it next to Pat Austin - you can actually spot a unopened bud...I like the purples and oranges combination)

From Roses Winter 2008/2009

I am amazed how well Pat Austin grows in Florida. Yellows are often plagued by black spot, but not lovely Pat!

Posted by ljlloyd (My Page) on Fri, Mar 5, 10 at 18:05
Now what am I supposed to do about that guys?

ljlloyd, here's an article on how to safely trap cats. It looks like exactly the same article that Fish and Wildlife mailed out here.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2067802_trap-feral-cat.html

.

Posted by saldut 9-10 st pete, fl (My Page) on Sat, Mar 6, 10 at 16:27
Quote: ""I think some people just hate cats, I have seen it with my kitties, a neighbor across the alley comes out and yells at them if they wander thru' her yard, she gets all red in the face and looks like she's ready to have a heart-attack...""

Posted by ljlloyd (My Page) on Fri, Mar 5, 10 at 18:05
Quote: ""lol, no lie. Just got home from work and haven't been inside more than ten minutes when I see the neighbors cat hop the fence and start digging up my mulch for a place to squat. lol.
Now what am I supposed to do about that guys?
Its clear this guy fancies his pet and "outside cat." He won't keep him inside during the day or night. Neutered or not its still a nuisance. I already tried a round critter spray. Next step is for me to have it trapped and taken away. I've spoken to him about it once before and nothing has changed. Gonna take a picture of the cat in the trap and send it to him anonymously""

Then no doubt you are support "Right to Life". Oddly, people who are the most adament about animal right are the first to the same to human babies. It's a bit of hipocracy, don't you think?

Then no doubt you are support "Right to Life". Oddly, people who are the most adament about animal right are the first to the same to human babies. It's a bit of hipocracy, don't you think?

Huh?! What am adament about and where would you like to point out hipocracy?!
I can see talking about cats- since that is what the thread is about , and plants - since that what the forum is about...but these leaps to religion and abortion, it is rather puzzling. Almost as if some are constantly searching for an excuse to accuse others of beliefs they perceive wrong.

Honestly, your message is so misspelled and so contorted, I am not exactly sure what you suppose I support and what you believe is right.
-- And, truthfully, it does not matter to me either.

I think your question/comment is more applicable for
"wanna talk religion and abortion" department. Do you know what their beef with rose growers is? hehe

With that said, Cat Haters 4, (Flower) Growers: 3, Wingnuts: 0

;)

Then you keep labelling people cat haters and wingnuts. I guess you want to keep it all going for some odd reason.

#1. I find it personally amusing. Please feel free to amuse yourself as well. Let's enjoy life.

#2. To defuse serious tension with obvious jest.

#3. I'm labeling myself a cat hater as well. If you really did look at my previous words and not just scan for something to throw back at me, you'd see that I'd qualify as much as anyone else on this board.

#4. Anyone who brings religion or politics to this discussion is as much of a wingnut as a person who says they don't like cats is a cat hater.

It's not that serious. Get a grip. Get a clue. Get a life.

Yes, I'm a troll. Please go back and read all my trollish comments in this thread. Thanks much, fellow cat hater.

I love all animals. I live in the country now and have had some issues with feral hogs tearing up some of my landscape. I don't like them. However, unless one charged at me, I don't think I could bring myself to shoot it. I'm going to invest in some hog fencing....for 10 acres.

Feral cats kill birds for one reason and one reason only. To eat. Human activity would make this feral cat abandon it's food to run for safety. However, well fed domesticated cats, let outdoors, will sometimes kill a bird and not eat it. This is because of instinct and not hunger.

We have some wild bobcats that patrol around our barn at night. I am thankful for that. We have no rats in our barn. I might add that we still have an abundance of birds. Despite the bobcats, and despite the zillions of hawks coming out of the timber woods all day long.

What I have created, and am still in the process of creating, is a bird habitat that includes trees that produce berries, and grasses that produce seeds. Flowers will attract insects for them to feed on. I have a pond that they bathe in. I love birds and other types of wildlife. I no longer set up artificial bird feeders because I found MANY types of animals, particularly squirrels, would have at it and kill the birds. They become an easy target for hawks. It is much better to mimic nature's food supply and provide plants for the birds to forage their food from. The key is to provide a balance of nature.

I have 5 cats that were rescued from a shelter. They have become like family. I keep them indoors, for their safety.

This thread is one of the nastiest I have read in a long time. Shame on you.

Sandy

Cats aren't endangered by any stretch of the imagination but a lot of the songbirds that they kill are. If you believe that the life of one house/feral cat is worth the life of one endangered Scrub Jay then you have to understand what that rationale brings with it.

Songbird populations are rapidly declining all over the country and while cats aren't the sole cause, they certainly make matters much worse. On the other hand, cat populations are skyrocketing across the country as humans put up housing developments in rural areas. Cats aren't in any danger of going extinct or even in becoming scarce any millennium soon.

So is it worth it to kill a few cats to save the genetic diversity of Florida's natural wildlife? I personally think it is. A feral/outdoor cat is a direct result of irresponsible pet owners and in my opinion their cats should be taken away from them.

You speak of a balance of nature. Well house cats aren't a part of any "balance" on this continent.

Whether you chose to do so or not is up to you. I used to put seed out also. I don't any more and actually have more birds. The squirrels figured out how to get into squirrelproof feeders, and were destroying nests and throwing out the baby birds onto the ground. They had impacted the birds in a far greater way than any cats I had observed. At least cats keep the rat population down. Squirrels just try to destroy your house. They are cute.....from a distance and in their own habitat.

Wilmington delaware, I do like meat, and I do hunt sometimes for food. I might take your suggestion and fill my freezer up.

By the way, all animals exist on this earth for SOME reason, and was never based on whether it fits into someone else's agenda. Doesn't matter if they're endangered or not. They were created for a purpose. WE have messed up the balance. So many pets have been considered "disposable" in this society, and irresponsible people decide they are inconvenient and toss them on the street or dump them in a shelter. The animals do what they need to do to survive. It's the human that caused the issue, not the animal. I've seen so many people with the attitude that they would rather spend $200 on some gadget rather than $60 dollars neutering a pet. They shouldn't have the pet in the first place. So then the pet does what is programmed into them. Just like us.

I'll say it again, the tone of this thread is especially nasty, and this type of nastiness is not worth my ever returning to.

"WE have messed up the balance. So many pets have been considered "disposable" in this society, and irresponsible people decide they are inconvenient and toss them on the street or dump them in a shelter. The animals do what they need to do to survive. It's the human that caused the issue, not the animal".

You stop your line of logic where most defenders of outdoor/feral cats usually do.

You are 100% correct in saying people are responsible for the mess of unwanted cats destroying our native wildlife. So if people created the mess then it is up to people to correct it. Strays and ferals should be rounded up and humanely euthanized, instead of simply being released to continue to wreak havoc all across Florida. That is where the Feral Cat Colony people fail to understand the damage of what they do. While they may think they are doing something humane and useful, they are actually doing terrible harm to the environment.

Why do rats and squirrels not deserve the empathy given to cats, when there is no big difference between the two, except cats kill way more wildlife. You pick and choose what life has value, so do we. Just we favor native wildlife, and believe that cats are too destructive to have a place in our wilds.

"I wasn't making any judgements whatsoever."
Perhaps you can define what "shame on you" actually means, because that sounds quite like a judgement.

Sandy, I would challenge anyone to show they've planted more natives on their property than me. I've specifically researched wildlife friendly plants (mostly for birds and pollinators), and have over 20 native tree varieties, not to mention shrubs, grasses, etc. I've read that in today's world a feeder can keep birds from starving if there is a bad year (such as the freezes this year). I understand there is much debate on it.

We're all making different distinctions based on our values and disagree. Some people consider it ugly when they're the recipient of negativity, yet are not as empathetic when they do it to someone else. You only see your side and demonize those who don't.

I personally think we should call "cease fire" Spring is here, the garden is calling and there is no need for ugliness from either side. Granted, we ALL participated, and I apologize. It is not worth it.

I wont convince someone who believes that cats need to be gone otherwise. And I am sorry I cannot be convinced to instead of fixing a cat to euthanize it. Then why go on at each other?

I do TNR, yes. I keep my own cats inside - I have a few ferals that I feed - all been vaccinated and fixed. My yard is full of huge oaks, has a pond, and lot of wildlife. Possums poo in the pond, birds sings songs all day long, raccoons sometimes go through the compost pile and make a mess, squirrels cause chaos in my bird feeders. My ferals are lazy *sses and wait for wet food. I would give them lots of attitude if they caught a bird, and they generally hang out by the pond watch the fish...
I am sorry, I understand the arguments the other side is presenting me with, but I will not kill these cats in my yard...

I have not added a single cat to the problem we are facing. My main goal of TNR is to reduce feral cat population. I do not want to see hundreds of cats on the street, but I cannot catch and kill either. So I find the alternative some might consider cruel, but it is a slow process of reducing numbers. Most cast we catch are on dumpsters and near people - because like some of you pointed out, WE the people, destroyed the habitats and more cats are now being supported by us. Yes, because of us the numbers went up and unfortunately where where the great populations of people are - the birds are long since gone (apartment complexes, commercial buildings)

My own cats- yes they are indoors. I try to take cats off the streets - most TNR folks do. If the kitten has potential, we socialize. I socialize months at a time, just to prevent that kitten from going back. Life in the house is much better for the cat.

A lot of my cats are disabled...I have a cat who is missing a leg and shoulder, a deaf cat, a cat with all its teeth gone and FIV+, I have a cat with neurological disorder ( cerebellar hypoplasia)...and so on. All came from the streets and found while we did TNR.

This last weekend I caught 8 cats. Three were pregnant. Three litters prevented. I am sorry, I cannot kill the cats, but I can fix them. As far as you are concerned, I did not add to the situation, I did not make the situation worse. These cats were there already, on their way to multiply. At the request of appt management, I got them fixed.

My neighborhood was a mess when I moved in. Two households with lots of outdoor cats. I went and talked and personally did all the work...and most of the paying to get their cats fixed. Now it is nice and quiet, no cats fighting and spraying, no kittens - I must have fixed 15 (8 from just one house!)

All I am saying, I am not releasing new cats in the environment. You can blame me for not killing the cats while they are in my possession or you can blame me for doing anything at all. If someone goes out there and traps them to get them killed after me, there is nothing I can do. I did what I could to simply prevent anymore.

I wish there was a way to make both parties happy. I wish people did not release unneutered animals and left them fend for themselves. I wish people would not abandon animals.

Please, I am not out to argue...I am merely trying to present my side of the story, so no need to pick through my speech and comment on every sentence of it. I am done arguing and I am done picking on any one in particular, and I would appreciate if all sides did the same.

Just a few months ago I was driving by a house in a Spanish neighborhood and saw a teenage kitten. I stopped and talked to the people - broken English, rather poor area - the lady explained to me that she had no money to fix the cat AND the cat's tail had been injured severely and half of it fell off. The other remaining half was infected.
I asked the woman to surrender the cat to me, and since the little girl was friendly, I fostered her. Humane Society helped with tail amputation and put her up for adoption.

Otherwise, this cat, if she survived, would be breeding in no time.

Once, I was biking to Publix in the evening and saw little fur balls running all over road. I asked the people - and sure enough, mother cat on premises, they could care less. When asked to surrender the kittens, the people asked if they could hold on to them for a little longer till they grow up, so their kids have something to play with. Unspeakable.

I took possession of the kittens, finally (a few days later) and spayed the mother cat.
Full of fleas, skinny tiny thing...

From Foster Kitties Dec 07

Little Sonia was left at Sonic drive through in atrocious state

From Little Sonia

I cared for her and she found a home within ONE day when she went for adoption (Sonia in the middle):

From Foster kitties October 2008

These guys ALL came from feral moms. All hissing and spitting. No, I am not a horrible TNR person who thinks all feral cats should live outside. I spent countless hours working with them socializing them...and they all never went back. All fixed and adopted.

From Kittens November 2008

Take a look at my gallery. Hundreds of cats, rescued off the streets. I do not have the heart to kill those I could not take off the streets - well, that is the kind of heart I have.

And unfortunately, there are too many people out there who do not care about birds. Who do not even care about fixing their own animals. They will feed, and that is where their care ends. All I am trying to do is to find a middle ground - I am not claiming my approach to be THE solution. And while we are all as a society looking for a solution, I will continue rescuing kittens off the streets and placing them in homes and I will continue my effort to prevent more from being born.

Please take notice, I did not personally attack any single on of you posters here. You can present your side of the story if the need arises in the same manner as well.

For all it is worth, I apologize on behalf of all cat supporters about that, regardless of who wrote towards who! Name calling has been thrown in all different directions - regardless of who started it - and it was uncalled for. I am guilty as charged, as most are here on this thread

Olya
p.s. incidentally, I blame the never ending rain for my extreme wordiness. Although I am happy to have this rain, I am rather antsy to out and continue my never-ending yardwork!

Looking at this photo, just wanted to add a few words about the other two kittens (I have lots of stories to tell, unfortunately)

From

Call it fate, or just an accident - I was in a neighborhood I really do not often come to. Saw orange kittens outside - every time I see kittens, I am on alert :) Kittens can be socialized, and kitten mean unfixed moms near by

I knocked on the door. The people were extremely defensive, they would not give up the kittens and they did not want any help. I left my phone number.

Days later, the people called me. Two years ago they got ONE cat. Never fixed her and let her roam in the yard. The next year, she had a litter of five. All stuck around - 3 girls and two boys. The family was just starting to think they have a problem, when the second generation made kittens. Well fed, big yard - of course they will multiply!

I am not lying to you. I ended fostering a litter and finding a foster for two more. That is THREE litters from one yard. One cat was caught pregnant, and the litter prevented. Each litter on average was 4 kittens, so we fostered and adopted out roughly 12 kittens. Add to that a potential litter of 4 that was never born, these people were looking at a total of 16 kittens in one year, and more coming years later.

And wouldn't it be easier to just get that one mother cat fixed? Thinking of that particular situation makes me shake my head - why are people so irresponsible. They care, they often do, but a lot of them cannot look beyond the potential consequences.

And why killing in their case would not work? Because these people would get bitter about losing their animals, but they would continue feeding and attracting more animals, allowing them to procreate. It is like a bottomless bucket.

Now they have 6 fixed cats, and that is where it is to remain for the time being.

Olya
p.s. Pasco county has a ban on feeding ferals and no support on TNR - incidentally, they have one of the worst feral cat problems. Hillsborough county moved in the direction of TNR support and the numbers of animals euthanized, at the tax payer expensive, have steadily been decreasing. We are making a tiny difference, there are less cats out there.

You claim it's wrong for people to appoint themselves the judge of who lives and who dies, even when the destructive evidence of doing nothing stares you in the face. Humans impact the world around them. There is no changing that fact.

While I disagree with Olya in the end result and overall effect of TNR, I can certainly understand why she feels the way she does and I do applaud that she has invested a lot of thought and conviction in trying to do the right thing.

Skinnyhoops, just get a supersoaker water gun and keep it by the door.

Even if you miss, the cats will avoid your yard after a couple of near-misses with getting wet.

(from a cat and bird lover who thinks the politics in this have managed to blur a lot of people's vision.)

Signed, Dances with Wolves
http://www.amazon.com/Buck-Predator-Bomb-Coyote-Urine/dp/B001IVZ9ME/re f=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359597164&sr=8-2&keywords=coyote+attractant

http://www.amazon.com/Code-Blue-Howlin-Coyote-Attract/dp/B001SH7W0U/re f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359597164&sr=8-1&keywords=coyote+attractant

http://www.amazon.com/Wildlife-Research-526-Calling-8-Fluid/dp/B0050HB VNI/ref=pd_luc_bxgy_01_01_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1