If you raise rabbits you'd not only have a food source but a good source for manure.

Chickasaw plum trees are a good native tree that requires no care and can produce lots of fruit. I have several and the big one looks like it's going to be loaded with fruit this year. Some other native fruit trees and plants that I don't think have been mentioned and don't require any care are crabapple trees, pawpaw trees, and shiny bleberry bushes.

I've also read that cannas are completely edible, everything from their rhyzomes to the leaves and flowers. I'm not sure how you'd prepare them though! lol

Currently, I'm growing potatoes, pineapples (4 of which are currently going into bloom), garlic, all kinds of herbs, and will be planting a bunch of sunflowers soon. Mom, next door, is getting her veggie garden cleaned up and ready to be planted now. She usually grows tomatoes, peppers, collards, brocolli, cucumbers, pole beans, egg plant, and squash. She also has lots of raspberry plants!

We've talked about plowing up the area around the chicken pen and planting corn but first we'd have to take down a tree.

I keep meaning to plant a couple chickasaw plum trees - next year perhaps I'll remember. I think we have a volunteer southern crabapple in the citrus orchard.

I have such a small yard that I'd really have to think hard on how best to maximize the use for food from the garden (crisis or not).
Has anyone ever seen a cost analysis of an individual gardens production per square foot? For example, based on grocery prices should I grow pineapples or tomatoes in a given space? I would definitely grow basil, dill, rosemary and other spices.

I'd love to find out what the square foot cost of veggies/fruits are to grow. Any suggestions?

I love this discussion! I've been trying to figure out edibles and this has a lot of things beyond all the cucurbits that I have had little luck with. Currently I have tomatoes and various beans, as well as herbs, and in the fruit dept-- mulberries, blackberries, and two tiny citrus trees.

In a crisis, I would be relieved to have a chance to hunt down those stupid muscovy ducks. I know that might offend some, but they're non-native and quite offensive on their own. And all the gourmet cooks say they are delicious!

I want to plant peanuts as it is; I never see plants. Any notes on how I could start this? The extension didn't have much info.

Shelbey

Shelbey, peanuts are easy! The local squirrels plant them all over my property. They grow fine in pots or in the lawn(G).

All you need are some squirrel nuts(G). (raw peanuts, in the shells).

Lisa

Amaranth grows well in Florida. There is the kind for leafy vegetables and the grain kind. If you grow the grain kind, you can eat the young tender leaves in salad or cooked like spinach, then later harvest the grain.

I haven't grown it yet, but am going to try it this summer. I'm not sure when the best time of year is, but they are supposed to like it hot. I imagine you would want to time it so that the grain isn't ready during the rainy season. I imagine it might get moldy, but I don't have any experience growing it.

Maybe, us folks living in HOA land could trade grain for eggs.

Has anyone else grown grain amaranth? Please share your experiences!

New, I grew grain amaranth last year (in Mass):

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Florida it isn't, here, but nevertheless summer is hot and humid for a good while. I harvested the grain later when it was less humid. It's a fair amount of labor for not a lot of seed, but the stuff basically grows itself. No pests, no trouble, huge plants as you can see. It self-sows like mad, so I expect to be seeing a lot of it in a few months.

i grew some, from ECHO. did great. tasted like a slightly nutty, very mild spinach. good stuff.

they say it's very sensitive to nematodes.

FRUIT-grapes, bananas, and any berries I am am learning to grow. Tomatoes, always, potatoes would go a long way. I figure if we are desperate there aren't going to be any ordinances against having cattle and barnyard animals. I would buy a cow and a steer(to reproduce) cow = milk and maure. Slaughter the cow only after she could produce another female to carry out the reproduction process and provide milk. Chickens, of course = Eggs, food and manure. Sell the extra manures on EBay so I could afford gas to drive to Ricky's, enjoy some of his Cannabis, get the munchies and eat all HIS food before coming home!

I'm with you Sumala. Pigeon peas everywhere! Perennial tree-like plants that grow in the poorest soil, and are so generous. May want to tuck a few of those little cannabis seeds on those vacant lots too. NIMBY though!

Cindee, I hate to tell you this but if you are looking for reproduction with "...a cow and a steer...", you'll be waiting a REALLY long time. Might want to try a bull instead!

I like the plan to sell the manure on E Bay and then drive to Ricky's though!

Kate

Rocky mountain oysters,Cindee?

Very interesting thread
I would love to have chickens for fresh eggs, a milk cow and more tropical fruit

For veggies, I am shipping my parents from Belarus here! My Dad is an agricultural engineer, and on 1/5 of an acre, in approximately 4 months of warm weather he grows enough fruit and veggies to feed him and Mom all year long. Mom makes super yummy wine and pickles!

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Olya

Oooooh, currants! I haven't seen them since I was a kid in New England.
It's amazing how lush and productive those northern climates can be during their few warm months. Is it the soil, longer daylight hours, more industrious gardeners (naw that's not it)?
Would love to meet your parents, Olya. They remind me of my grandparents, where I spent my early years. Every square inch of the yard was both productive and beautiful. And nothing was ever wasted.

coffeemom - my e-mail to you with the invite bounced back.

OOOPS, Solstice-been off the farm too long.........OK Some one Gimme bull to survive!

Oysters, YUK, Kristi. I will still go to Ricky's, by way of Olyas...look at her produce. She could feed us all!

I don't think your plan will work, Olya.
Not confident your dad's expertise/experience will have prepared him for Florida. :-)

Treefrog, yup, these are currants! My last name, Smorodinova, actually means currants :)

Lakeron, naaah, I think my Dad can adjust ;-) His specialty is soil - he even worked in Africa for 3 years! And for fun, he does grafting :) All the fruit trees in the garden that are grafted - he grafted :)
I remember as a kid, we were walking in a forest, and my Dad spotted a wild cherry growing in the shade, young plant. He got all excited - excellent rootstock, we are digging it out! Brought it home, got it established and grafted a fancy cherry on it ;-)
I think, with love for gardening + a bit schooling, anyone is ready to take on a challenging climate :):):)

Olya

i've been meaning to post this pic from ECHO's farm day a few weeks ago... ECHO does a very cool wick garden... ultra low inputs. nothin' fancy:

Instead, they use old bits of fabric (nylon, presumably -- it wouldn't rot) and discarded rubber and plastic mats. A bucket with a three-eights inch hole drilled into the lid (above) is filled with compost and manure "tea".

The bucket is inverted, and the fertilizer solution flows out. When the carpet/mat becomes saturated it creates a vacuum that seals the hole and the water flow ceases. Evaporation and absorption lowers the water level, the vacuum is broken, the solution flows out...
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Any kind of mulch (they used pebbles, old tin cans, and coarse, shredded plant debris) keeps the mositure in and provides a mooring for the plants' roots. Hydroponics simplified.

Circle of life, un-Disney-fied. The chickens in the coop are fed a mix of grains and greens. The greens grow on top of the coop (same wick garden set-up -- you can see a bucket peeking out of the upper-right-hand corner). The greens and wick garden keep the coop cool. The chicken waste drops through to the pavement below, then goes into the barrel of manure tea. The tea goes into the wick garden. The greens go into the chickens... Out comes the poop and the whole thing starts again. Ultra low inputs (just some grain), ulta low space requirements, and you get three "crops" (collards, eggs, and meat) from one set-up. Very smart.

In preparation and because it is fun, I have been saving seeds from store produce - tomatoes, melons, cucumbers, squash etc. I grew tomatoes from those seeds this year and they are doing great. You never know what you'll get. Maybe not as many tomatoes as regular seeds but very good. I also tried germinating dried beans and lentils last year. They came up but weren't in a good location so died out. No luck on the cucumber seeds so far.

I am a country girl at heart in HOA land - I would love chickens. Ill-mannered, What a cool coop with vegetables on top!

I hope it doesn't come to that, but if things get bad enough the HOA's will probably be lax on their rules. Of course by then a chicken and rooster would probably cost an arm and a leg. I would think hopefully there would be alot of victory gardens in public areas, easements, etc. It seems ashame to waste the areas when we could grow some of our own food.

I like the peanut idea. I am going to look for raw peanuts to grow. I don't know about pigeon peas. Here is a link to thread on them:

Here is a link that might be useful: Pigeon peas

I have to try that irrigation, fertilizing system Ill. I hear it works well for cucumbers and squash too. I've never been able to grow beets or swiss chard here.

We might learn a lot about gardening during a crisis by looking at Cuba after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Here are a couple of interesting articles I just ran across.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/280951_focus13.html

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2005/04/0080501

Thanks for those great links treefrog!

That chicken/collard contraption is astounding - hard to believe that the collards could be so lush and thriving in what looks like a little bit of straw and no soil. Very cool. And handily beats the nematode problem. BTW, did anybody know that rice is a significant crop in south florida? I didn't, and I spent a lot of time in the major rice-growing county - palm beach. I wonder if a dry-land variety could be grown farther north. Did they have rice at ECHO? Seems like it would fit their scheme perfectly......

they had a couple of cool rice paddies -- one flooded, one dry-land technique...

Here is a link that might be useful: rice at ECHO

treefrog,
we don't have to look as far as cuba (tho those were some really interesting articles) -- detroit's already entered into the post-apocalyptic age...

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/0081594

(it's a fabulous article, but i'm not sure non-subscribers can read it...)

treefrog
a second thanks for the articles. you are better than Mother Earth News. (How do you find them?)

Now how do I put some of those Cuban organic strategies to work in my yard which I have tried to make organic?

I am especially interested in their whitefly control since being infested last year. Cuban farmers have so much knowledge learned the hard way.

Most information given out in the US tries to steer me toward pesticides, probably because there is more money in selling that product. Some of the organic solutions I've tried don't really work that well, or maybe I'm too impatient.

I'll read the articles again, print them out and highlight specific cures. Please post anything new you find, it's good news to share.

Denise

My goodness, yet another project for my long-term list: growing dryland rice in central fla (it's my favorite grain, and if supplies get more precarious in the future - has anybody been tracking the developing global rice shortage? - growing my own could be necessary). I'm starting to wonder if I'll live long enough to do half of that list......

Thanks for the rice photos, Ill.

Its a b****h being a vegetarian. I am not a vegan however so I produce lots of eggs, goat milk, yoghurt and cheese. Also have 25 big old pecans. I am working with moringa and chaya now and as well as regular veggies and fruit, I grow coffee, tea and cocoa. I love growing the exotics. I use solar heated greenhouses. The best thing about living in North Florida is having real grass. It is so important for the goats and other livestock. Also being able to grow all those great winter greens (which I hate but are good for the livestock)

new to the forum, i do some what agree we need to start being responsible for our selfstarted last year clearing out the overgrowth, planted a garden 30 x5 , planted 2 mango trees glenn, pickering, 2 peach trees, avacado, star fruit, pomagranates
what else will grow during the dog days of summer in extreme soth fla.

Wow, we are really getting serious with survival gardening ideas. Treefrog, thanks for the cuban articles, I really enjoyed them.

One thing folks have not mentioned is heat for cooking. Has anyone built a solar cooker?

Another thing is that folks talk about rabbits, but from what I read, young domestic rabbit breeds can not tolerate green stuff but need rabbit pellets, will they be available??

Aquaponics seems like a good direction, but once again, it needs fish food for input.

I have a 5000 watt PV system, but will need another type inverter if the grid is down. Keep saying I'm going to change it out, but haven't :>(

bernie

Your existing system is grid-tied?

I plan on only two things. Growing corn and having a still. I'll barter moonshine for food.
Seriously, I'd add a wood stove for cooking and whatever heat might be needed in FL. I remember from my childhood seeing my grandmother cooking on one in rural Alabama, in a tin-roofed farmhouse with only a Warm Morning stove for heat.

solar power is expensive and battery storage inverter takes up a lot of room, i like the still idea,. i do not think we could go back to our grand fathers way of living . but i do belive there are rougher times ahead. higher gas means higher food bills in a already tough economy, permaculture is a state of mind, you do not need to grow everything neighbors helping each other is how we will survive. but food is a issue

Richard, do you have experience growing maize for grain in south florida? I suspect not, and that there will be serious difficulties due to several factors at least.

That aside, there could hardly be a less sensible use of the resources required to make a corn crop than to use it to make alcohol which then reduces the health and productivity of humans. What a great plan for a situation that would by definition be precarious.

PNBrown, yep , I'm grid tied and have net-metering with FPL. They credit me with kwh's on months that I generate excess the next month. Florida paid me $20k and I got a $2k tax credit. Did it in 2008 and the system has made up the difference in electric cost since Aug 2008.

So the problems with grid-tie as a useful off-grid situation is the emergency disconnect required by FPL and the fact that you don't have a separate 12v household wiring system.

Presumably you could have a 5000 watt inverter(!) - imagine the cost - and have an entirely separate connection to your household AC system, if you could persuade FPL that it was safe for their grid repair needs. Not likely. Not to mention that would be the most wasteful way to use the current. Cheaper to install a limited 12v DC wiring system. Buy an old rv and you'd have all the appliances and light fixtures.

> Growing corn and having a still. I'll barter moonshine for food.

I think you'd need a lot of sugar cane and a cane mill, too, at least based on the descriptions of 'shining in Marjorie Rawlings's books.

This is a fascinating thread.

A 5kw xantrax inverter that can run grid, battery, or generator is the same price as the PV4800. No difference IMHO whether I disconnect the grid and run on a whole house generator or run with the xantrax battery plus PV's. Currently the whole neighborhood runs generators to the house grid when FPL is "off line". Everyone is well aware of unplugging the grid line before turning these systems on. Some are automatic, mine is manual.

Good grief, PN, lighten up. That was meant to be funny.

Okey-doke, Richard. I get a little worked up over wastage of good tortilla corn.

I all the planting and growing food and energy and animals and canabis and moonshine and electric grids and allllll that....

Do not forget to to move in some family members and get your weapons ready, cuz somebody is goin to have to protect your family and your crops 24/7 from the masses that have not or will not plan for what is coming.
Hopefuly it won't go there.....JUST SAYIN

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Does anybody have seeds for any 'man eating plants' like Triffids or Audry?

Lou

LOL....Lou I like that!!!!!!!(still lauphing!!!!)

If you find any of those man eating plants will you please share with me LOL
Hugs, Carmen

Perhaps in a crisis okra and beets would be outlawed. One can only hope. And, Lou, your reference to the movie "Day of the Triffids" brings back some memories. Not only could plants kill people, they got up and chased them.

Maybe I could grow Soylent Green? Got some neighbors looking a little plump and ready to pick. Get Charlton Heston to help me.

Interesting discussion. Reading what others have said set me to thinking. It seems it would be best to consider growing foods that give high yield with not a lot of effort and they have to be foods that I like!

I would definitely do sweet potatoes and some kind of bean. But what foods can you grow without the use of pesticides in Florida? I would use onions, garlic and herbs to help keep some of the bugs away. I've read also that some insects don't like marigolds. I'd have to research more on using plants to protect other plants from bugs.

Of course, citrus fruits, mangoes and bananas. I read recently about a peach tree that has been developed to grow in Florida. Tomatoes, squash, peanuts. I like the idea of chickens for fresh eggs, but I couldn't slaughter them myself. (Yeah, I'm a wimp.) And a dairy cow would be useful too.

But if things got really bad and you couldn't get butter or vegetable oils, I guess olives would be nice.I have no idea how many trees you'd need to be able to press enough oil to make it worth while and if you've got olives,capers would be nice too. I would really have to try growing coffee.

>And a dairy cow would be useful too.

While I'd rather have a nice amiable Mistress Moolly for a lot of reasons, it seems to me that for many people a goat or two would probably be more practical, especially if you don't run to acreage. :)

I did a search for Southern Crabapple and this came up lol. This thread is 12 yrs old. People were thinking about a crisis and now here we are! This is an interesting thread.

What else would people add to this list?

And... is anyone growing the Southern Crabapple (Malus angustifolia)?

I just found this thread too. Wonder if these guys planted any of this stuff?