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Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Posted by electricsquid 9b Clearwater Fl (My Page) on
Tue, May 4, 10 at 21:39

Hi All,

I'm looking into growing a grape vine or two here in the yard and I'd like to make sure I choose the right type that will grow well and produce.

The planting zone is on the eastern side of Clearwater Florida, about 2-3 miles from Tampa Bay. This specific area is shown (on more detailed maps) to be a small patch of grow zone 9b (surrounded by 9a).

Thanks for your help :)


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Try Just Fruits & Exotics. They have a good list of Muscadine grapes. Some people have said they have had success with Concord style grapes but I doubt you would get any to fruit well in zone 9B. Muscadines will fruit well though. In fact most of us have wild grapevine growing quite well on our property. Fry, Noble and Alachua are some varieties that people claim are successful in 9B.


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

I have an extremely vigorous vine called 'Daytona', a dark pink grape. I bought it @ the Green Thumb Festival several years ago from J.A. Dodson Citrus & Tropicals.

http://dodsoncitrus.com/

Here is a link that might be useful: Daytona grape


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

There are a few you may be able to try. In the last few years, I've tried to get into bunch grapes. So far, I've gotten venus, suwanee, daytona, black spanish, lake emerald, blanc du bois, black monukka, and champanel.

Almost all varieties of bunch grapes are recommended only on grafted rootstock in Florida, but none of mine are grafted. The least vigorous of these seem to be the venus and black monukka, followed by the champanel. The black spanish has one of the most vigorous root systems I've seen on a grape, and some even claim that these will actually do well in florida on their own roots.

All in all, the lake emerald seems to have a faster growth rate than any of the others. The lake emerald, suwanee, and daytona are also the first vines to actually produce grapes for me, although there were some blooms last year on a few others.

I lost a year on many of my bunch grapes because of planting them directly in the ground, where it was just too wet. I live in a very low/wet area. So, the grapes that actually survived were put in containers that have been sunken in the ground a bit, and they seem to be a lot happier that way. This low area doesn't seem to bother the muscadines at all.

I live a little further north than you but just wanted to give my experiences so far. As far as where to get these from, I got about half of them online and the other half came from lowes and wally world.

Here's my lake emerald with unripe grapes on it, taken just a few days ago. BTW, the mower is in the shop :/


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

i can recommend nesbitt (from just fruits)--prolific, and it produces over the course of six weeks to two months, which is really nice... the flavor is great, and it needs no pollinator. i'm sure there are grapes that are better in one aspect or another, but nesbitt is very good to excellent in all of them...


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Thanks for all the quick responses :)

@bigpaulie1972
"Just Fruits & Exotics" has been a gold mine of info for me. Their "Panic Button" links (in PDF) have given me the needed info for growing blueberries, strawberries, pomegranates, and now grapes.

I've become very interested in the Muscadine variety of grapes, but wouldn't even bother with Concord due to their lack of use in wine making (as far as I know at this time).
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@carolb_w_fl
I'm glad to have you respond. I read in another GardenWeb topic that you suggest "Daytona" grapes, and now I know where you got them.

J.A. Dodson Citrus & Tropicals doesn't have any grapes listed on their website at this time, but that might be due to them being a touch out of season for planting (as far as I know). Fortunately, J.A. Dodson's phone number comes up as a Pinellas Park location (though I think that might be their residence so I don't suggest just showing up). They are about 3 miles from me. So I'll have to give them a call one of these days.
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@xentar
Because I'm interested in propagating whatever I grow, I would not want grafted types. Whatever I choose to go with will need to be able to live/survive on it's own root system. For some reason the whole idea of grafting kinda rubs me the wrong way :P

Thank you for sharing your experiences so far, your knowledge will be helpful in my final choice.

Oh, BTW, I only mow our yard 5 times a year, so don't worry about the high grass showing in that pic. It's a welcome sight.
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So I guess I should have added in the original post (forgive me, I'm a bit sick right now), I am looking to have a very well rounded grape that not only does well here in 9b/10, but can be used for wine making, eating raw, and maybe even jellies or jams (in that order).

I would like to make a wine from these grapes that doesn't require a lot of extra sugar to be added to the mash. I would like to keep it as natural as possible. So I'm guessing that I need a naturally sweet, mildly acidic grape to start with.

Please correct me if I am wrong, I am fairly new to this.


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10????

@an_ill-mannered_ache
I like the "needs no pollinator" idea.
How well does Nesbitt do in making wine?
I'll have to look into that.


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Try "Southern Home" variety, its a bunch grape/muscadine self fruitful hybrid grape that was developed by UF for Florida growing conditions.


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

or wait... christine tells me that there are a couple of great new varieties coming into cultivation that will be available this summer... through lowes.

never made wine with nesbitt... but it's a tasty table grape.


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Cool, I like Lowes.
You wouldn't happen to have the names of these new cultivars, would you? I'd like to do some "ahead of time" investigation.


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Muscadine and Southern home will grow like weeds in southern florida. The "bunch" grape varieties they sell will grow with some care but generally get stressed out in full sun, high heat conditions, dry periods etc.

The muscadines will grow and set fruit with no care at all. Southern Home is probably the best variety. The only reason people even bother with bunch grapes is they want something closer to what they buy in the grocery store or a more "traditional" wine. Really the muscadines have great flavor but large seeds, odd texture etc. they make really good juice.


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

I have been growing muscadines and for what its worth:

Isons- average taste at best. Gave it another year this year but is being replaced. Thick skin, medium large berry but does not excel in taste.

Darleen- very very good bronze, female so make sure to have a self-pollinating.

Supreme- also very good black and it is female too.

Cowart- excellent tasting self fertile black

Carlos- good but not excellent table, suppose to be very good for wine. I intend on making wine next year to try it out.

jb


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

I am looking for some Muscadine and other Grapes seeds
to grow in my tropical Malaysian climate. I will greatly
appreciate your help. I have Papaya, Passion Fruit,
Dragon Fruit, Star Fruit, Muringa, Curry Leaf, Eggplant,
Oriental Greens, and Yard Long Beansseeds to offer.
Thank you.

Durai


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

I watched for the two new varieties that were to be released this summer and sold at Lowes, but I didn't find them. I remember one variety is 'Delicious'. Can't remember the other one right now.

Hello Durai -- One major problem with starting muscadine plants from seed is that they are hybrids. Anyway, on the bright side, you may produce a fantastic new variety.

Christine


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Can Muscadine and Southern Home be grown from seeds?
Can the seeds from grapes bought from the Supermarket
be used to grow grapes?
Hi, Christine, thanks for your input. By the way,
I would like to inform you that I have 7 of your Dwarf
Papaya and 10 of your Red Lady papaya trees that are
beginning to bear fruit.


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Well nearly a year later I'm in Clearwater wondering the same thing about muscadines. Can you fill us in on what you picked and how it worked?

Thanks.

Dunn


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

I chose Charlotte with Cowart as the pollinator, due to their resistance to the root rots. I bought them through Stark Bros. online.

Charlotte grew well. In fact, I was able to bend down and bury the lowest two branches and start up two new rooted vines from the parent vine :) All growing well.

Cowart struggled and finally died, but I think it was due to a weak vine, not the variety as a whole. Stark Bros. sent a replacement (a year later when they ship grape vines again). It got here today and it's going in the ground tomorrow morning. This vine looks much stronger. Lots of roots. We'll see how it goes this year with Cowart.

Other varieties I got a Lowes on clearance this past fall for like $2 a vine. I swear they look like 3-4 year old vines. Carlos and a few other varieties I no longer remember the names of. I think the tags are out in the garden still, I'll check tomorrow. All these clearance plants are wintering over fairly well.

We also spit out grape seeds while eating store bought grapes, all over the yard. Some of them have taken root in a pot by the porch. I have no clue if they are muscadines or not, but they're doing well on their third year.

These vines are mulched with a ground down mix of local tree leafs, pine needles, and pine bark.
They're planted in the same mixture added to the existing soil at about a 75% mulch/25% soil ratio to fill a 2 foot wide x 1-1/2 foot deep hole. Lots of organic matter was added since our soil is 95% sand.

These vines get full sun 65-80% of the day, morning through mid day sun, evening shade.
Watered every two days if it doesn't rain. Basically I just keep them from ever drying out too badly (when the raspberry bush wilts, it's time to water).

I'm not sure if any of our mix ratios, sun/shade ratios, or watering amounts are prime, but so far they all but the original Cowart seem to be happy and growing.


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Very cool, thanks! I'm thinking I'll get a trellis up this year and plant next season so keep us posted. I was thinking out southern home, carlos or noble.

Dunn


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Almost no grape varieties do well in southern florida except "southern home". This is because Southern Home actually has a small amount of a tropical grape species mixed in with the muscadine. At the same time there are wild grapes that grow all over Florida and do well. I ordered some grapes from the united states agricultural research site and I'm looking to breed them. I want a grape that will grow with little to no care in south florida. They have some varieties that should do well, but I will continue to cross breed them and see if I get anything interesting.

The UF varieties like conquistador should do well. I know there are some vineyards successfully growing conquistador. However, these varieties have a few disease problems in the south, but overall should grow. The official florida varieties are mostly adapted for Central and North Florida. They are mostly crossed with native aestavalis. However, in the sandy, swampy and tropical southern low lands varieties crossed with shuttleworthii will do better. They have a villard blanc/shuttleworthii female hybrid that has solid disease and root nematode resistance, produces a good wine etc. should be a good vine to grow in the south and an excellent parent. There is also a hybrid "tropico" with v. shuttleworthii and tropical grape parentage that should do well.

If you do grow the official varieties like conquistador, daytona etc. they will do better if grafted on dog ridge root stock. Southern Home is by far the best if you want something that will grow like a weed with little care and produce a lot of grapes. There are some varieties of muscadine that will do well, depends because some muscadine varieties are native to northern Georgia or Virginia or something and they will grow in Florida, but also don't do real well. There is a difference between the muscadines native to south florida and the ones native to someplace far north of here. The native ones are better adapted.

But that's what I want is something adapted to southern florida that doesn't need any spraying or special care and produces a decent grape better than the wild grapes. Wild grapes are actually pretty good tasting around florida but tend to be extremely small or else with poor texture and large seeds in the case of v. shuttleworthii.


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Hi, maybe I'm not too late. I have tried many table grape vines in Tarpon Springs Fl (9B). Some of them in ground others in containers. Next time I'm gonna plant grapes just in containers. The only and best one is GOLDEN MUSCAT. (actually not typical Florida grape). Start developing bunches already in beginning of February. Fast growing healthy European style muscat table grape. I have got from Ebay. Grow better earlier healthier then the native muscadine grapes in my back yard. The others was'nt even started in February, this one was already full with grapes. Fruiting like a crazy. And I just put some new "no name" white muscat (perhaps Muscat Ottonel) cuttings in sand to rooting, got from a Italian friend, very good and tasty, but fruiting later. I can give you some after rooting. Picture taken Marc 2 2013 Golden muscat

This post was edited by Pista on Mon, Apr 1, 13 at 9:19


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

Golden Muscat is not pierce resistant and will die eventually in Florida. Lake Emerald is a hybrid of Golden Muscat and a native Florida grape that will survive long term in florida and produce a similar (though smaller) grape. I would recommend Lake Emerald as an alternative.


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RE: Best Grapes for zone 9b-10???

I live in zone 9b in California. I currently have Thompson seedless, Autumn Royal, Flame seedless, Suffolk and a couple Korean grapes growing on my property. All of them do very well and I have no problems with any of them. Gophers were my biggest threat in the first years. As long as you mix in plenty of compost at planting, mulch out 2-3 feet on either side and give them potassium and nitrogen at the right time you'll do fine.


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