Yes thats them .I would think gardners would like them as they are eating machines and imagine anything that could harm plants they will devour granted they eat green treefrogs but they are here to stay
. I have not seen a single green treefrog in my yard only Cuban treefrogs

This guy is inside the lanai which has no plants and no water as of now. It will die as all the others did, my husband told me. It must have squeezed flat to get in underneath the door and cannonot find its way out again.

We have a green tree frog in the courtyard, with plants and with water.

I'm glad you posted that photo florah. I hate to admit it, but I'm naive as far as the CTF's go.
We have one fat fellow that hides out in a spider plant hanging basket all day long and then transfers over to other hanging baskets at dusk. If this is the only one we have (I think so), can they really do so much harm? If they're main diet is bugs, especially mosquitoes, I'll let him stay where he is. Are they known to devour plants as well?
Like I said, I'm naive. My son and I get a kick out of seeing him transfer back and forth as soon as the sun sets. Anyone here have stories or sites I can check out?
Again, thanks again in advance and for posting your photos florah,
Sue.

...I would think gardners would like them as they are eating machines...

They are eating machines but they eat the good and the bad alike. And the reason you aren't seeing the native green tree frog is because the Cuban Tree Frogs have eaten them all or at least eaten the food the greens would have eaten. This is a terribly invasive species.

Sue, I'm glad you asked for more information. I wish all gardeners would be more interested in educating themselves about invasive plants and critters. The University of Florida recommends euthanizing the CTF. I've attached a link to their website for info on the impact of the CTF in Florida. Good pictures of the frogs for easy ID, too.

Kate

Here is a link that might be useful: Univ. of FL on Cuban Tree Frogs

Their main diet is anything they can cram in their mouths. Not just insects, but lizards, green treefrogs and baby birds. Anything. They get quite large and are voracious. Yes, they can really be that bad.

Here is a picture of a larger one. Notice this nasty corpse-grey coloration, warty skin, and the very largetoe pads.

Here is our native green treefrog. Smooth skin, bright green with cream stripe, and tiny toepads, not much wider than his toes. This is the frog that SHOULD be hanging out by your porch light every night.

If I can find the picture Ill-Mannered posted of a HUGE Cuban treefrog with the hind legs of a green treefrog sticking out of his mouth, I would post that, too.

I can't say enough bad things about this invasive and destructive frog. Please read the other posts on Cuban treefrogs, and you will see why they need to be destroyed. Though some experts think it is too late to get rid of them, most seem to think there is still a fighting chance to save our native species. And there are several proposals being made to try to find a wholesale way to fight these noxious pests.

Please, please do your part if you find them in your yard. Since we brought them here, it's only right that we at least make an effort to get rid of them.

Marcia

Kate, you posted while I was writing, and I want to thank you for the link. I hope everyone will read it, and maybe a few more gardeners will join the ranks of those of us who are trying very hard to spread the word about this problem.

Cuban treefrogs are just fine in Cuba and the West Indies, where they came from. They have natural predators there, and they don't cause any problems. But if we don't get them under control in Florida, we will surely lose all of our native green treefrogs, and probably all of our Carolina anoles, too. And who knows what else.

It's a fight we ought to make.

Marcia

Thanks so much Kate and Marcia for providing me with UF's site and your insight as well.
Looks as though I have a little trapping job for my son as soon as he gets up this morning.
I wonder, are black racers ever hungry enough to make a meal out of CTF's? And if the whole area was eradicated of these little monsters, would our beautiful native frogs ever reappear? I would love to see them in the yard.
Thanks again guys,
Sue.
On another note, I see lots of toads in the yard, year round. And now I'm seeing tiny ones as well. Hopefully they're doing their best to keep down the mosquito population. I would imagine that they're pretty tasty too for the black racers.

Congrats on seeing happy toads in the yard, Sue. I wish I had more of them, but they began to disappear right after I moved in, when the Cuban treefrog population was at the highest. Now that I've reduced that drastically, my green anoles are coming back, and I have hopes that the green treefrogs might come back, too.

My sense of it is that if we can get rid of the CTF's (no guarantees that it will happen, of course), the green treefrogs from farther north might slowly move southward again and repopulate Florida properly. And I think it's worth the effort.

Black racers are opportunists, like most predators, and when they are hungry, will eat whatever they can catch. They are GOOD at catching frogs, and hopefully can help in the effort to get rid of the CTF's. (I saw one of my resident racers Friday morning, right outside my front door...wondering if he was drinking from the Ali Baba fountain? He was more than three feet long, so he's living a good life here, apparently.)

I'm glad you were willing to check out the available information and decide to join the fight. Some people won't even discuss the fact that there should even BE a fight. But I truly miss my lovely green treefrogs and want them back again. I won't give up while there's any hope at all.

Marcia

I havent seen a single native since I got here well have seen green anoles but not 1 green treefrog yet zillion Cuban trees and not 1 Southern toad but again countless Cane Toads.
There is a bird preservation behind my house and after it rains the Cane Toads and Cuban trees come out in hoardesit never occured to me that they could wipe out native amphibians but so many that I cant fathom them being stopped without using chemicals which would wipe out the few remaining natives

Are you in south Florida, rascy? Sounds like it. You guys down there are in even more trouble than we are here in central Florida. And from lots more things than just CTF's and Cane toads. I don't know what it will take to sort it all out. And some of it may never be the same again. But up here, there's still hope (at least most of us haven't given up yet) and we are still trying. The affected native species can move back into an area if it gets cleared of the invasive ones, and that's what I'm hoping for. It might not happen, but lots of us are still willing to fight.

Marcia

I fully agree that the Cuban is a invasive but a lot of you "die hards" are just plain out and out ridiculous with these endless post.
You're going up against the Chinese army with a single machine gun,.... sadly you're gonna run out of bullets and you ain't going to win.

Some of what is said is myth or theory.

First all frogs........ every one will eat anything it can fit in its mouth. Check out a pig frog or bull frog for good sort of native examples of big boys who will do this. This is the nature of the frog.
Toads will do it to.

No denying the incredible rate that Cuban breeds or how adaptable they are, but isn't that more as a result of man made habitat which is ideal for Cuban's and not green Tree frogs? We gotta point the finger back at ourselves. Our native wildlife doesn't always like to like so close with us or in structures we build to modify natural habitat.
Natives are losing ground because a little rocky babbling stream in the back yard isn't so keen for them to breed in, nor is a old water swimming pool.
Put in a shallow liner and make it like a roadside ditch with native plants (most call weeds) and you will have greens amongst others. I have them now and somehow a few make it even with the Cubans.

Cool toads like the spade foot are in trouble before the Cuban. There breeding is seldom and could miss a year or two then take place only on 1 or 2 nights when the humidity and moisture level is correct. Like a lot of these amphibians they are extremely secretive. Something the Cuban tree frog is not.
Spade Foot toad doesn't like yards and fertilizer and little gnomes in the corner of the garden with signs that say "a nice spot to sit". Humans do, Cuban Tree Frogs could care less.

How many have ever seen the very common narrow mouth toad (frog) in their yard? Sounds like a lamb but you are not likely to ever see one other than the lamb call at night.

No doubt they do a job on native frogs but they are not without enemy, unlike some claim. I have seen them been taken out within the last month by a small owl at dusk and 2 times by snake - one a black racer during the day time.
They do have predators and I would imagine that the egrets, ibis, and other wading birds I see in my yard have downed a fair share of them that I haven't seen.
These are not Brazilian Peppers exactly though they breed like the Brazilian peppers.

Anoles are diurnal and chances are that the Cuban anole will do in what is left of the native green anole long before the slower diurnal Cuban will. As well the Green Anole is more secretive where it survives because it is more arboreal then the Cuban Tree Frog or the invasive Cuban Anole. Cuban anoles are ground lizards primarily and not hanging above 12' that much.
The aggressive Cuban Anole has done the job on the Green Anole in urban and suburban areas south of Brooksville - Deland line.
The Cuban Tree frog hasn't made any dent in other non-natives that it hangs out with at night. Gecko's or greenhouse frogs. Greenhouse frogs are easy marks.

The Cuban tadpole does eat vast amount of "wigglers" mosquito larva. These tadpoles are in places that normally amphibians wouldn't breed but with a few rain drops the mosquitoes would be there yearly in vast numbers. The majority of Cuban tree frog tadpoles will die when the water dries up quickly and with them a lot of wigglers are gone that would have made it.
Cuban tree frog isn't going to put a dent in mosquito numbers just like those silly electric zappers but they do eat the larva.

I don't see the point and what result are the one man armies of Cuban tree frog killers trying to do?
Look at the real picture, Google it and read several sources. Amphibians and frogs in general are in fact having a damn awful time of any sort of survival on planet earth. They are dying out as a population Genus.
Some frogs/toads like the Marine toad are real threats in ways that endanger people and pets and the Cuban is a much smaller threat.
What will happen if the Argentine horned toad, often called the "Pac man frog" ever gets a foot hold in Florida??? It will make the Cuban look like a good kid on the block.

Keep on killing `em, you get there...............................

Yes I am in South Florida I prefer N.Florida but with work it wasnt possible but the North has more land for less money Doral is insane .

Its like NY prices just absurd

I do agree that its a lost cause ESP in South Florida maybe not N.Florida . My aunt lives in Coral Gables her yard is all cement with swimmimg pool as is her neighbors no real green just cement with pool and few potted plants.
The native green treefrogs ,toads,green anoles cant survive in that but the non natives can .
I think the lose of habitat is to much for the natives.
Here in Main square they are building few 3 story office buildings meanwhile I have lost count how many others are empty for lease,rent,buy thats a lot of green trees,shrubbery lost for native animals.
I think the bulldozer is the main culprit behind the decline of natives granted non natives like someone posted eat natives but the bulldozer eats their land .

MPH, you are certainly free to think me ridiculous if you want (even though it is incredibly rude to SAY it), but I believe some of the info you use as a basis for that judgement is just plain wrong.

I agree that we may be fighting a losing battle in some parts of the state. In other parts of the state, I think we have a chance. I KNOW I have made a difference in my own environment, and I believe if others joined the fight we could slow, and possibly STOP, the tide. Just my personal belief, but there are many experts who also agree.

If you had actually read all of the posts on this subject, you would have seen many comments on the fact that yes, all frogs eat other frogs. But never do the native frogs wipe out the other native frogs. There is a balance in play. That is totally NOT the case with the CTF's, so your "first of all frogs" paragraph has no bearing on the issue.

Green treefrogs have been living and adapting to "man made habitats" for years and years, with good success. I know for a fact that they have been in every yard I've lived in for the last 64, just from my own personal experience. Are there other unknown factors at play in their decline? Possibly. But the single biggest factor that we KNOW about at this time is the CTF. Period. Not myth. Not theory.

We have also pointed out in many of the threads, and this one specifically, that there are some things that will eat CTF's, including black racers, birds of prey, alligators and possums. (We aren't quite so uninformed as you seem to think.) Sadly, those predators aren't making a real dent in CTF populations. Nature is funny that way. Bring animals into an area where the proper checks and balances aren't in place, and that animal will take over.

As for Carolina anoles, we have also discussed them many times on this forum, and the general concensus among biologists is that they have begun to hold their own against the brown anole. They seem to be finding ways to co-exist with them. Not so with the CTF. They have no chance against them at all.

Frogs all over the country are in stress right now due to many different environmental factors. (Most of us know that, too.) All the more reason to try to protect our natives against this particular problem. You don't throw up your hands and say, "Might as well give up! They are on the decline due to other things anyway." That makes no sense to me at all. Surely they deserve even more help!

I have Googled and read many, MANY articles on this subject. Not all experts agree on what should be done, to be sure. But virtually ALL agree the CTF's are a terrible problem, and there are certainly more saying the CTF needs to be destroyed than there are saying forget about it. And thank goodness for that.

And just because there are other destructive amphibians out there that we don't want to see become established in Florida doesn't mean we should ignore the ones aleady here. That argument makes no sense to me either.

You are free to think what you want and treat the CTF in any way you want, of course. But I would tell anyone who reads your post above to do some research of their own, including the University of Florida link Kate provided, before they make a decision on the issue.

In the end, everyone will do what they believe is right, certainly, and I hope that will be to come down on the side of our seriously threatened native wildlife. There are some issues we CAN change, one yard at a time, and I firmly believe this is one of them.

Just my opinion, but I think it is every bit as valid as yours, and those of us who feel this way don't deserve to be called ridiculous by anyone for trying to do what we believe is the right thing.

Marcia

It won't work if you don't try it.

I have rid my yard of Cuban's and the green lizzards and small frogs are back. They were NOT here before.

So true, Katkin. It's amazing what we humans can kill when we put our minds to it...everything from polio to passenger pigeons. Which, btw, were so vastly numerous that their flocks darkened the sky. No one ever thought they could all be killed...but they were. Not that it was a GOOD thing, by any means. But my point is, if we can wipe out millions of pigeons and bison, surely we can wipe out this stupid frog.

Marcia

Get 'em Marcia. The SPEED limit is 70 mph NOT 101; going that fast would be ridiculous!

Killer of all CTFs on Davis Islands.

TampaArt

MPH101's post may not be popular, but in many ways they are right.

The CTF is not a huge threat to the native green anole because they are diurnal and CTFs are not. They don't eat them IN LARGE ENOUGH NUMBERS to be the problem, even if they do occasionally eat one. The green anole's problem has been that the Cuban brown anole has stressed them out, that Florida is overdeveloped and that areas with tall enough trees are becoming less common (Cuban brown anoles are brush anoles that are more common in suburban areas because native green anoles occupy niches higher up in trees), and also the increase in outdoor cats in these suburban areas. Green anoles do not breed as efficiently as Cuban brown anoles, and cats hunting them down affect their numbers more than the Cuban brown anoles. In this case, the green anole is in short numbers primarily because of US, and the CTF is a scapegoat. The Cuban brown anoles of course affected the green anoles, but I see more greens around every year now that canopy trees are being planted in Dade County in suburban areas where there were hardly any just a few years ago. Where are they most common down here in SF, despite the brown anole long being established? Parts of Coral Gables, Coconut Grove, the University of Miami, Fairchild Tropical Botanic Gardens, etc. where there were always tall trees and there aren't a mess of outdoor cats.

The biggest threat to the GTF is not necessarily the CTF, either, although at least it is reasonable to assume they have made a large impact on native frog populations. But how much of it is our fault? GTFs may like your lush back yard, but in areas that are far from forest or wetlands and are mostly developed (like Monroe, Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach Counties) they wouldn't be common anyway. I still see GTFs and squirrel treefrogs out in the Everglades or along Tamiami Trail. Away from humans, they are still surviving. But where it's all buildings and concrete, the Cuban treefrogs end up completely replacing them. Maybe their coloration has something to do with it, but it also seems that CTFs are more comfortable in this concrete suburbia than GTFs ever could be. Again, we are the ones making the environment so much more favorable to the CTFs in the first place.

Cuban treefrogs do have their advantages over green treefrogs--they are better breeders (and their tadpoles have a much higher survival rate, it's pretty amazing), they are so much larger, and they have adapted so much better to living and breeding in our cities and towns. But they shouldn't be surviving as far north as they are, or as well as they are, and WE are the ones helping them along.

I am in Miami, where there really is no point in killing the CTFs. I did try for a while, but like MPH said, it was one of me against millions of them. Where they already took over. But, yeah, in Central and North Florida you may have a good chance. But don't expect Old Florida back. Don't expect all the other creatures to miraculously come back. It may be the coincidental case in your yard, but unless you get rid of people and what we do, most of the damage has been done. It certainly doesn't hurt to kill the CTFs you find, but if you go around telling everyone else to it's a good chance they'll be killing a lot of native frogs they mistook to be CTFs. Florida has more than just a single native treefrog, the GTF, it's just that the GTF is the most common. And most of us can tell the difference between a GTF and a CTF, but a barking treefrog can reasonably be mistaken for a CTF. A grey treefrog can definitely be mistaken for a CTF. Even a pinewoods treefrog can be mistaken for a CTF. So, unless someone knew what they were doing, they could be doing more damage to the native treefrogs than anything by trying to help. After all, it's in our nature.

Maybe it's time to think about eradicating the developers. The only way that our native habitat will return is if we put a stop to all the unnecessary construction and destruction. Easy for me to say and unfortunately $ talks. We can all do whatever we can in our own small way to protect what is left. (Maybe we can call in Carl Hiaason or Dave Barry for guidance)
Sue.

We have addressed the anole situation ad nauseum, but I will once again refer to experts who say that they are beginning to hold their own against the brown anoles. I know BOTH are living in my garden now that I got rid of the CTF's. Only the brown ones were there when I had CTF's all over the place. And guess what? I have seen CTF's hunting many, MANY times in broad daylight, especially about 4:00 to 5:00 in the late afternoon. So their paths most certainly cross the green anole's. There's that argument gone.

There are a LOT of opinions on this issue, many held strongly. I would never recommend killing any frog without a positive ID. That goes without saying. Or at least I thought it did. But it is easy to tell a Cuban treefrog by the fused head skin and the overlarge toepads. Nothing else looks like that no matter what color phase they are in.

I absolutely agree we have been helping spread them. WE are the only reason they are in Florida to start with. But to my mind, that makes it all the more important that we try to stop the spread and at least TRY to fix the damage we have caused. And I agree that they probably can't be eliminated in south Florida. But there is still hope for us in central and north Florida. Many, many experts feel this is an important battle. I plan to fight it until I have conclusive proof all is lost.

And frankly, I think I refuted enough of MPH's post that I don't need to go any farther. Do whatever you think is best, by all means, but I will continue to fight the good fight.

Marcia (and thanks,TampaArt...good luck on Davis Islands!)

It's my opinion that our backyards will never duplicate an undisturbed land area and that while we can attempt to make a wildlife friendly yard, some animals are going to adapt while others aren't. For this type of reason, I don't think the native green frog is necessarily in peril, just because I don't see them in the backyard. Just as possibly the Cuban tree frog might not be in abundance in the Everglades because of more predators.

As far as my own observations go. I'm 45 years old, I have lived in my house 45 years. As a child, my Father regularly took me "hunting" for frogs, lizards, snakes etc. He taught me from a very early age to appreciate all of what nature has. Frankly as far as this piece of property goes with my 45 years of observation.... I don't ever recall seeing a green tree frog. I remember catching the brown ones in the picture above as a very small kid, but I can't tell you if they were a Cuban frog or something else, just that they weren't green. I really don't see that many tree frogs in my yard period. I do have them, as well as leopard frogs and misc. toads.

As a kid the green anoles were everywhere. We would look for them inside the water cup areas of the big Crinums in the yard. Then it seem like overnight they were gone and replaced by the brown anoles. To me it seems like the Cuban tree frogs would be happy with the supply of brown anoles, but nothing seems to put a dent in them. Also as a child we would catch skinks, they were everywhere. I still see one once in awhile, but not like when I was a kid. Even animals like foxes and wild rabbits were here as a child, but are long gone.

In the last few years, my yard has become abundant in the big green Cuban anoles that are like a foot long. These anoles are very slow as far as lizards go and the cats keep them in check. In the last couple of years, I started getting brown basilicks, they are now everywhere in my yard.

I guess my point I am trying to make is, even our own little backyards are subject to the laws of nature and survival of the fittest. Also I would tend to blame the build up of this area for the loss of wildlife, as much as foreign species moving in. I do wish people would be more responsible when they buy exotic pets. Many of our problems would be avoided if people were responsible and not dump the exotic pet in the wild when they no longer want it.

You make some very good points, minibim. We will NEVER turn Florida back into what it was. I'm only hoping we can keep some of it from getting any worse.

I'm a 64 year old Florida native and I've never lived anywhere, city or country, that I didn't have green treefrogs around the lights at night. But that doesn't mean every other yard had them. Just that they were always frequent visitors to yards that supplied (intentionally or otherwise) food, shelter, and a bit of water somewhere.

The Carolina anoles are making a comeback and are adapting to living with brown anoles in the same habitat. That's a sign of nature "rolling with the punches." Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes we have to help it out a bit.

But overall, Florida is being taken over by exotic species, and some of them will never be gotten under control. What it will do long term to the environment is anybody's guess. Probably won't be good, though.

I guess my feelings about the CTF stem from the fact that it isn't too late to stop them in some areas. And I just don't understand why everyone wouldn't want to at least TRY. But I've said my piece on this subject over and over, and many people still don't get it. I think, like sterile Mexican petunias, it's an issue that some folks just don't want to hear about.

To me, that's sad. Yeah, if we could get rid of every single CTF in the state, which we can't, it would only be a drop in the bucket in the war against exotic species. But it could certainly go a LONG way towards helping to save the green treefrog. Which, btw, is definitely in peril, according to every source I've ever read. Some think they will be extinct within the next decade, certainly at least gone from Florida. ALL our native frogs, across the whole country, are in decline due to environmental reasons, including over-development and pollution. But the CTF is hastening the demise of the green treefrog, and will certainly destroy it long before the environmental issues have been resolved one way or the other.

I have always said, everyone will have to make up their own mind concerning what they want to do about these invasive frogs. For my money, it's whackity whack. It helped my green anoles and I think it is the only chance I have of enjoying green treefrogs in my yard again. CTF's belong in their native country and not here. They are not welcome in my yard, but I don't think there is another thing I can say to help people understand this issue. By now, they either get it or they don't.

Moving on, here, to other posts on other topics.

Marcia

There is a cartoon if I can find it will post the link.

Its a golf course with a mini mall in the background .
It has a few brown anoles and Cuban treefrogs playing golf and a sign in the background that reads " Natives not welcomed"

These Cuban treefrog posts very interesting had no idea that they even hunted green anoles at 5pm time

They hunt lots of things in the daytime. I watched one take a four foot leap off the side of my shed to try to snatch a sphinx moth out of the air. Happily, it missed. It wasn't even 4:00. I'm not saying they don't hunt at night primarily. Just that if something tempting comes by during the day, they will definitely go for it. You should see the pictures of them eating baby birds. That would really get ya. Since I can't find one of those right off, I'll share Ill-Man's pic of a dark colored CTF. In case you are wondering, those are the hind legs of a green treefrog sticking out of its mouth. And I don't know for sure, but it looks like this pic was taken during daylight.

Marcia

Thanks rascy for thinking of me. I (we) can all probably relate to the cartoon you mentioned.
Been a long day here. My son had all 4 wisdom teeth removed-everything's fine. Just a stressful day to say the least.
Will touch base with all tomorrow.
Sue.

I wonder if the Florida wildlife org has ever considered breeding green treefrogs in green houses,etc and restocking areas .
Last night after it poured here I had like 10 large cuban treefrogs on my patio screen but again not 1 green.

Rascy, I think there are several experts in the field who have talked about the possiblity of doing just that, but until the CTF's are under control, there's no point. It might or might not work, but if the Cubans were gone, I'm sure some groups would give it a shot. Plus the populations of green treefrogs that survive in areas the CTF hasn't moved into yet would definitely begin to move back farther south. But again, the CTF has to be gone first in order for it to be successful. Big challenge!

Marcia

Oh yes your right it would be self defeating if the Cuban treefrogs werent gone as it would just be feeding them .

Good thing I dont run the Florida wildlife org lol