Gosh a company trying to protect their intellectual property?????? How dare they (rolls eyes).

Companies exist to make money and that is a very GOOD THING. It is a companies DUTY to grow and make money for their shareholders. 95% of us depend on these companies for our existence either through the products they make or the paycheck they provide. Demonizing companies for trying to make money is not the American way.

Monsanto makes some great products. But they are heartily hated by millions - mostly agrigarian third world countries - whose lives they have made even worse. Most of us on this forum make every effort to work WITH Mother Nature. Monsanto seems determined to boot her off her throne and make mankind pay for their arragonce. IMO
cora

> they are heartily hated by millions - mostly agrigarian third world countries

They are hated even more heartily by every corn farmer I know in the midwest.

The company does not force anyone to use their seed or buy their products. Most large successful companies are hated by some segment of the population.

You are free to start your own company spend hundreds of millions to develop your own far superior crop varieties and then give them away for free.....let me know how that works out for you.

Except that they've sued countless farmers for millions of dollars, wiping out their businesses, because their "brand" of soybeans or what not pollinates other fields. If Monsanto detects even trace amounts of their strains of genetically modified garbage in foreign fields, it's over. It costs hundreds of thousands just for the farmers to get legal defense. Many of them go under.

Here is a link that might be useful: POV - Food - PBS

Yes, exactly what jason83 said. Nobody who raises open-pollinated crops has the freedom to which you refer, bamboo, sorry. And they do go around and sue and insist that crops be plowed under if they think they might have caught pollen from their crops. You MUST be a monsanto farmer or not farm in those areas. It's no secret and they don't pretend otherwise.

Heck, even honest specialty companies like Bob's Red Mill now will NOT guarantee their products to be GMO-free anymore. From their FAQ:

No. All of our products originate from identity-preserved, non-GMO seeds. This means that the seed planted in the ground is non-GMO. We do not guarantee the complete absence of GMO materials in our products because of wind drift, pollinators and our lack of testing equipment.

I agree Corar, what Monsanto is doing is a nightmare. September 17th marks the beginning of the Global Week of Action Against Monsanto being coordinated by Occupy Monsanto and the Organic Consumers Association Millions Against Monsanto. Find a rally (we're having one in Daytona Beach), sign a petition for labeling GMO's, buy organic, tell a friend..
Monsanto is the leading producer and developer of genetically mutated seeds. When people grow Monsantos genetically mutated seeds the pollen from their plants can float thru the air or be brought to my plants by a pollinator and then my seeds from my plants will have those genetic mutations. Those suicide crops from Monsanto's seeds can spread their genetics to my soy and corn.
We don't know how any of these genetically mutated crops are going to affect people and our planet long term but what we do know isn't good. Last year Monsanto was forced to release their own study that showed GMO crops can cause kidney and liver damage..among other problems.
I mean please, Monsanto went from making Agent Orange and PCB's to GMO and Round-up. Agent Orange was supposed to just be a defoliant, not a people killer and birth defect weapon. Look at Monsanto's history, how they've lied and covered up. What will the liability be for GMO?
We need to be really careful of what we let these corporations do for a fast buck! They could irrevocably harm us and our world forever.

If Monsanto continues to market GMO plants, we are going to be in big trouble. We'll never be rid of the stuff once the hidden dangers go mainstream, because by then it'll be too late due to the genes being "out there" and pollinated with everything else.

Their crap is totally unnecessary and I don't see how or why anyone would debate for their side.

I'd rather eat the very dirt and grass out of my own lawn to survive before I'd eat their genetically modified garbage. And it sounds like with the way our agricultural industry is going, the dirt and grass is gonna start looking pretty tasty to a lot of people, sooner than we think.

It makes me foam at the mouth and my face melts when I hear about all the people who are "OK" with this 'stuff.' It's dangerous and unnecessary. If you value life in any capacity, do not buy GMO and do not buy Monsanto's products. Period.

"Do not buy GMO" is good advice, theoretically, but if you buy anything at all at the grocery store in a package, it's extremely likely that it has some form of corn in it, corn starch, high fructose corn syrup, corn starch, and many other euphemisms. And what do you think they are feeding the animals we eat? Your tax dollars are hard at work subsidizing all of this.

The Future of Food
The World According to Monsanto
Monsanto article at Wiki
Corn King
Controlling Our Food
Unnatural Selection
GMO Foods: Panacea or Poison?

If you think the goals of Monsanto (those kind, caring folks who brought us BGH and other wonderful substances) or other companies tinkering with GMOs are for the benefit of the consumer and/or humanity, I would disagree. But please, don't take my word for it. Fire up the google, consult sources you find trustworthy, watch some of the documentaries. Decide for yourself if you think these ideas are good, beneficial.

Well this is all approved and monitored by the FDA, so it's cool, ...right? Take a look at who works at the FDA...

So is there any data on why/how their varieties of crops are far superior?

I just love how some people believe anything websites tell them regardless of the sites bias. Damn the facts, full speed ahead right? The business of Monsanto is to benefit their STOCKHOLDERS PERIOD. If farmers try to pull a fast one and get caught they should pay the price. It is just easier to curse those evil corporations, right?

I'm sorry, bamboo, but I'm not quite following. If I choose to plant an heirloom variety of corn, how am I "pulling a fast one"? Sorry, not understanding your point.

If I choose to grow, say, Golden Bantam corn in an area where Monsanto operates (and that's starting to include a lot more area in Fl since the switch to corn around Lake Okeechobee), I am liable to a cease and desist order from them. You approve of this, I take it?

There is plenty of data -IF you can get your hands on it. And their special seed is no better than heirloom seed that has proved itself for 100 years or more.

About 5 or 6 years ago, I saw a film on what Monsanto did to 'help' several South American countries. If I recall, Chili was one of them. I remember a farmer standing in the middle of a "scorched earth" field, tears running down his cheeks and telling through a translator, how NOTHING would grow on his land. It only took about three seasons to bankrupt this man - he couldn't even grow enough to feed his livestock.
Last I heard, Germany, France and Great Briton have banned all of Monsanto's agri-products.

Bamboo, if anything, watch the PBS documentary called POV - Food. If you'd looked at any of those links AT ALL, your reply wouldn't have been anything like what you wrote, trust me...

bamboo rabbit, I don't know if you are playing devil's advocate or if you are simply unaware of the horrible damage Monsanto's agricultural products have done.
I have a dear friend whose husband died about five years ago as a result of the chemical company he was working for, ignoring his warnings about a 'product' they were developing. She had to take them to court to retrieve a small part of his death benefits because they denied any fault. Husband was a chemical quality control engineer. She is a research specialist. She KNOWS how to find information. She had proof of their lies. What she couldn't prove was that the company bought the judge.
Please do some in-depth research before you continue insulting us.

I should say that my source is not the internet, but corn farmers I personally know in Ohio who have either switched crops or stopped farming entirely. A very good friend's family who have been raising corn on their farm since the 1870s are negotiating with developers now, but of course nobody wants to live anywhere near monsanto farming, so he figures they'll just lose the land eventually.

I'm utterly kerflummoxed that anyone, especially in a garden forum, could think that the ability to stand dumps of toxic chemicals (pesticides, herbicides) that would kill any normal plant is a "superior" quality, and that's certainly what monsanto breeds for, proudly and without attempting to conceal it. Systemic insecticide hard wired in, ability to treat with lethal levels of external applications.

These are facts, easily verified by your trusted source of choice: The Amazing Revolving Door - Monsanto, FDA & EPA

A very basic thing, the right to know if this stuff is in the food you are buying, does not exist. And a lot of very powerful people and companies want to make sure it stays that way. If this GMO stuff's so great, why aren't they proud to put it on thousands of labels?

Who do you trust? Monsanto, or farmers and people who go bankrupt trying to make a documentary to show/tell people what's going on? ...or make a documentary about why they went bankrupt? When someone says something, a company or an individual, consider their motivations because, as bamboo rabbit so accurately stated, "The business of Monsanto is to benefit their STOCKHOLDERS PERIOD."

What kind of company wants to sue organic farmers for accidentally having pollen that they DO NOT WANT accidentally blown onto their property? What kind of company wants to produce a plant that will make the people who eat it sterile? How is it helping 3rd world countries to sell them seeds for plants that don't make MORE seeds so they can plant another crop? Or sue them for patent infringement or failing to renew their right to grow that crop if they do harvest the seeds? Why would there be so many documentaries about the same subject and particular company if there wasn't something serious scaring the heck out of people?

If you are a US citizen (not a dig at anyone, just recognizing people that from other countries with similar climates visit this forum) and would like to let your congressperson know that you think food should disclose GMO ingredients, it only takes a minute to send them an email, even if you have no idea who they are. Type in your ZIP code to get the right person, then click the email button. United States House of Representatives

California will be voting soon, prop 37

The picture below is from Cornucopia.org

GMO = genetically modified organism

More people should think to themselves why they're not too keen to place "GMO" on food labels.

Not only is it going to screw up our agricultural industry, but it looks like it's well on its way to trying to destroy others. Check out the link for a perspective from Vandana Shiva, a scientist and philosopher who discusses the impact of these GMO seeds.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vandana Shiva on the Problem with Genetically Modified Seeds

I made some stir-fry for supper last night. Before I opened the new jar of hoisin sauce, I glanced at the ingredients label and right there in type large enough to read : "non-GMO soy sauce, non-GMO soy beans." It was also all natural, Kosher and contained no MSG. The brand is Joyce Chen.

I'm familiar with Vandana Shiva. We need dozens of her spreading the word and demanding action.

Corar, I couldn't agree more. I bet that stir fry was good. Did you save me some???? :)

It may be a tossup which one will kill a person first: GMO or fry! (I love the fry. So. hard. to. deny!)

Carol in Jacksonville

My problem isn't necessarily with e GMO aspect -- if they want to put the BT gene in the corn directly instead of spraying it with BT when the army worms show up, I don't really care.

What I DO have a problem with is their idea that they can sue anybody who is growing a crop where "their" genes show up in. The farmer has no control over that, and in fact, I think the lawsuit should go the other way. This farmer is trying to grow non-GMO crops and the Monsanto genes are pouring out in the wind and ruining the individual farmers product.

In reality, I think these guys should form a cooperative for legal defense and to fund lawsuits against Monsanto, and ask for donations. I would give a few bucks.

I also take idea with this "shareholder capitalism" model that bamboo rabbit it so on about. The idea that companies have no other responsibility than to shareholders is part of why we are in such trouble as a nation. Corporations have a responsibility to their stakeholders. Primarily this is their shareholders but it is also their customers, suppliers, employees, and the communities they do business in. Otherwise, if the corporation can make money using slave labor to grow coca to make crack to sell to kids who we can them employ to dump the toxic waste I to the river, then hey... Greed is good right?

You should watch the documentary film "The Corporation" and learn about the history of corporations, why they were chartered and allowed to exist originally, and the differences in stakeholder and shareholder capitalism. I really and truly believe that the greed mentality, epitomized in shareholder capitalism, is why we are doing so poorly. (The bottom 98% I mean.)

I would like to have the right to decide if I want to eat corn with pesticide built in, or if I want to eat organic corn. I want to be the one who can decide which is the superior product.

These companies spent LOTS of money to defeat Prop 37 in California, which would have required foods with GMO ingredients to indicate their presence on the label.

Here is a link that might be useful: Companies that oppose GMO labeling

I didn't realize the extent of this...I guess I was just thinking about the produce from the grocery store. So how do we know what's in our cereal, oatmeal, jams/jellies, boxed foods, canned foods..ALL foods...?

We're screwed.

If it has any form of corn or wheat, which most packaged products do, there are almost certainly GMO ingredients. Since 1994 it's been legal to use these items in our food.

I don't think there's any issues with canned food like a specific kind of veggie.

Jams/jellies are likely to have HFCS.

Since Quaker oat company is part of this group, I would assume they've got GMO oats as well.

Yes, even things like grated cheese or ground spices usually contain some wheat, since it's added to prevent clumping. If you look at the websites for people with celiac disease who must have a totally gluten-free diet, it's pretty amazing what they have to avoid or use a special version of, like vanilla extract, for instance.

Time to pay closer attention to the labels from now on I guess. Simply saying "no wheat or corn" isn't going to be as cut and dry as I'd hoped by the looks of things!

Don't forget soy.

I went into this trying to create a list of companies to personally boycott. But not only do I think that's not realistically possible, I wanted to share this incredible, breathtaking list.

Months ago I kind of gave some thought to the list of parent companies published when I first became aware of CA prop 37 and knew some of the things we regularly buy were from subsidiaries of some of the names. So between trying to replace those and reading labels, I thought I was avoiding most GMO products. Now I realize how wrong this thinking was. Completely.

This weekend, I'm going to see if there's anything at all in our kitchen that I can be sure is GMO-free.

I think they've tossed HFCS under the bus to take a public beating and distract from the bigger picture. Have you noticed now many labels within the past year have started saying on the front, large print, "No HFCS?" Or the long version, "No high fructose corn syrup." Some have both versions, you can get your Heinz ketchup with or without it. Now that's democracy!!

I guess I no longer totally believe in "the system". Why is it that the STOCKHOLDERS get preference over the individual who decides to farm the way their forefathers did? Why is the corporate decision made by Monsanto, Syngenta et. al. to create a non-natural GMO, allowed to override that which those gardening/farming have planted before them? Why is is OK for a group of stock holders to be the case for allowing GMOs to exist at the potential risk of an entire global population? In Florida, way back when the US ACOE (Army Corps of Engineers) decided the Everglades were too wet, it was decided to interfere with Mother Nature and crop dust the Maleleuca quinquenervia tree (tea tree) there to reduce the level of H2O as this tree is a great lover of water. There are now acres of trees so dense birds cannot navigate through them and they are an invasive exotic. It's pollen is akin to talcum powder in fineness and it's spread is only capped by freeze zones fortunately. I wish the same could be said by GMOs. Allowing the pollen to be released into the region in which it is planted is to force others to grow the same stuff they have created. Pollen stays in the atmosphere, soil and compromises all other plants of the same genetic strain. I do not agree to have my free choice dictated by others who are beholden to some group of STOCKHOLDERS or their corporate bottom line. They are infringing on the rights of me and all others in their effort to procure and monetarily corral a choice of plant or pig they decide they have genetically 'corrected' for the 'good of humanity'. If you are so inclined to read.....the Wiki-leaks article should clue you in to the relationship between the US government and Monsanto GMOs. Not hype, just what the ambassador stated. I find this whole situation tantamount to dereliction of duty to serve and protect the people they have been sworn to same. (in regards to any government body that preserves and protects a corporate body who serves a group of STOCK HOLDERS over the general public).

I'd done some rading on monsatan way back in the 70's and thought them evil then...that's partially why I started to garden in addition to my now 30 something year old son having been diagnosed with leukemia as a child and me wanting to do everything possible to support his immune system with healthy, natural food. Understanding labels is a good thing; it helps in avoiding most, if not all frankenfoods.

"Understanding labels is a good thing; it helps in avoiding most, if not all frankenfoods."

Bzzybee, there is currently no way to know when a product has GMO ingredients by reading the label.

Check out this handy PDF I got from Dr. Mercola a couple of years ago.

Here is a link that might be useful: non-GMO Shopping Guide

Its not just seeds Monsanto are after. Pigs now.

This post was edited by Shans on Fri, Nov 1, 13 at 6:51

I just bought a UFO Peach Tree which was created by the University of Florida by inserting a gene for firm fruit flesh into a saucer-shaped peach variety that has been popular in Asia for hundreds of years.

If a public institution creates frankenfood instead of an evil corporation, does that make it okay?

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/06/010614063245.htm

I wouldn't mind so much if they were open and truthful in the labeling of the frankenfoods so WE can make the choice when purchasing, but no... they hide it, change names, use mnemonics, buy the old patented names, etc. and use those on food and seed labeling.
The real problem comes from those crooks & scumbags in Washington we re-elect time after time who are in cahoots with the big conglomerations for the kickbacks and donations for re-elections.

OK, I'm now down off my soapbox,
Lou

When did we as humans start exercising our "rights"... And totally disregard our responsibilities as stewarts of this earth? ..it makes me sick...
Call it what ever you want...I call it GREED!