i have aegopodium podograria variegata growing in dry shade and it has been a good ground cover people just do not know in most cases where to use this plant and that is why they have most problems with it. in dry heavy shade it does not spread fast. I have other groundcovers that have spread faster than the podograria. If you are the kind of gardener that pay attention to your plantings and you plant this in dry shade you should not have any problems. this advise is for the variegated variety not for the green which is very invasive even in the shade. something else, the variegated variety does not flower so much so if you cut the flowers off before they go to seed you should not see any seedlings ( this plant do not come true from seed) I personally do not think it is so hard to dig. but this is just my oppinion and many people in this forum will try to kill me if they read this post. but if you still want to replace it a good substitute will be geranium micorrizum, japanese fountain grass hakenochloa macra aureola, pulmonaria, lamium, japenese painted fern and epimedium ( the last one very good for dry shade).

I agree there is a place for goutweed in certain growing conditions. If there is a location that won't support the growth of grass, why not plant some goutweed in that area? It would probably thrive and you do not have to mow it.

Your suggestions are very good though and I have been looking for an excuse to plant some epimedium for quite some time. Thank you.

Monika6, carlos
We must wisper our thoughts about goutweed. I never suggest it because everyone jumps when I suggest this ground cover and I just love it. I have had it around hostas and the way it weaves it is very pretty and not agressive. I often wonder if people have it in a lot of sun and wonderful weather for very long periods of time so it is not taken into consideration that if you live in a colder climate it does not progress as fast in our zone.

I must add it has been there for 5 years. People ask me what is that pretty ground cover and when I tell them what it is the first thing They say "Oh I heard that is agressive pull it out".

I suggest try it and if you see it is growing fast pull it up it is very easy to pull.

Monika, LOL! we could sneak out at night and plant it in all the alleys where nothing ever grows except beer bottles, and garbage. We could be the secret Goutweed club.

You must be good at your profession. So many people just close down on this plant until they see it used properly. One of my friends that told me to pull it out finally asked for some and now she loves it. She constantly tell me how she had heard it was aggressive so she never really looked at it and did not know it could look good. She uses it in her container planters and on a slop that would not grow anything.

I received this plant when my neighbor was pulling it out from a place you described (a little strip next to his driveway) why was he taking it out you ask? Because someone told him it was aggressive. Where was it going to aggress to? His driveway? The cement street? On the other side of his drive way was asphalt.

OK I will stop now. I think I made my point. I have to go put on my shield in case someone sees this.

Marquest,

Tee,hee,hee! The Secret Goutweed Club. I like it.

Who decided turfgrass was the best cover for a front lawn anyways? As soon as grass experiences the least bit difficulty it goes dormant or gives up. It wants watering, fertilizing,and protection from a dandelion. Nobody ever lets it grow tall enough to hide a beer bottle.

Do you know which other plant name needs to be secretly whispered? Ribbon grass. It has all of the same attributes as goutweed.

By the way, my profession is stay at home mom for three boys. The slide shows are just for fun.

Oh I thought you were a landscape designer. You seemed to have a handle on goutweed most people start running as soon as the word is said. I did not know you had the hardest job out there. Good Luck! LOL.

Now on to other plants that should be secretly wispered

Ivy - let it grow up your house and it will pull the mortar out of the bricks, it kills trees. Yet people suggest this all the time.

I think I will start a new question and see what we can get and you can use it in your next presentation. I am not going to list Goutweed. its a secret...

Marquest and Monika (whispering)
Can I join your Goutweed Fan Club? I the varigated in quite a bit of shade rambling through my hosta. I consider it a rambler, but not aggressive. Nothing glows quite as well in a dark corner and it actually shows off some of the darker hosta.

Yeah!!! The club is growing. Schenley you do know stones will be thrown at you. You will be made to feel like a crazy weed grower. Someone that does not know the difference between plants and weeds. LOL!!

Also, the Hosta rambler I am using mine in the same situation as you. It is pretty in the evening, it glows.
I am trying to incorporate it in a moon garden setting.

Welcome to the secret Goutweed club.

Thanks Marquest...mums the word!
If we go out under the cover of darkness and randomly plant goutweed in selected places, I'll bet the unknowing and uniniated will all be converts. They just lack our good taste and vision!

BTW...great idea for a moongarden.

Oh my... I go away for two days and look what happens.
Welcome,Schenley!

If the Secret Goutweed Club starts to plant alleyways by the light of the moon people would come around to appreciate Goutweed's charms. Perhaps some day there will be entire boulevards planted with the stuff rather than struggling grass and weeds.

Have you read the "Worst Perennial 1993" thread in the Perennials forum. Goutweed is a star there.

I found these in a book of mine, Variegated Plants, by Susan Conder. The perennial suggestions all bear a very close resemblance (in appearance, height, habitat) to aegopodium. I, too like the way aegopodium looks, but after losing perennials at my mom's to its' agressiveness, I would never allow it in my garden.

Take a look at astrantia major "sunningdale variegated."
There are 3 kinds of variegated brunnera.
Geranium phaeum "Variegatum"
Heuchera "Snowstorm"

Hmmm,more plants for thought. Thank you for finding them.
I have never seen a variegated hardy geranium but like the group as groundcovers of great beauty. I have absolutely no experience with brunnera.

I love this monster plant, can I join the club too? .

Sure Carlos we welcome you with open arms. Did you read that it is a secret club? Shhhh...Don't tell they will hang you if you tell to many people that you will use/like this plant.

Okay now, by definition a weed is a plant that is happily growing somewhere we DON'T want it. So.... the variegated isn't a weed, right? I too ADORE the variegated version of this plant but am seriously, strenuously, AGGRESSIVELY fighting the other. It's choking hostas, daylilies, shasta daisies, rhododendrons, even after we thought we pulled it all up, under 20 inches of new compost/garden soil and 6 inches of mulch this monster keeps returning. It WON'T pull up and now it's literally coming up in the middle of all my 'new' plants. Ideas anyone? I've put in a pond and so moving all the desired plants and instituting the RoundUp solution isn't going to work.

Brunnera Jack Frost is easy in the shade/part shade, big leaves and adorable little flowers. Heuchera's have been semi-evergreen for me so that would be a plus in your 'waves'. Have you thought about variegated boxwoods sheared to stay low? Don't know how much effort you want to put forth but they are apparently very slow growing. How about Lamium Silver Beacon?

Hello Loniesmom.

I have returned to read these suggestions because one of my groudcover waves, Artemisia lactiflora "Guizho" turns out to be four feet tall when it flowers. Well...who knew?

I will be keeping my eyes open for the epimedium and brunnera. They sound like just the thing.

Regarding the green goutweed in your pond perennials. What if you get a foam brush and a small container of Roundup PLUS pesticide resistant gloves and start painting the leaves. Pick leaves isolated from the rest of your perennials. The plant will translocate the chemical from the leaves to the roots and eventually die out.

Hi Monika;

I hope that artemesia was at least at the back! I could use something like that in my yard if only it would be happy in the shade. Your idea of painting the leaves with Roundup makes such perfect sense! Now why didn't I think of that - maybe because I'm too close to the weeds to see the garden, eh? Thanks I'll try it as soon as I can and let you know.

Happy Gardening!