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M. coco hybrid!!
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Posted by Greenwitch z9 SoCal (My Page) on Tue, Jan 25, 05 at 22:02
| Someone tipped me off to a source for the rare Japanese weeping persimmon and the same nursery has many Magnolias including a hybrid of M.grandiflora x M.coco - too sweet! I'll try to be discreet:
M-c-r-a-c-k-e-n-s hope that doesn't get me booted!
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Follow-Up Postings:
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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- Posted by JimShy z7 Brooklyn, NY (My Page) on
Wed, Jan 26, 05 at 10:10
| Yes, He's a former student of August Kehr, one of the great American magnolia hybridizers of this century, and always has a drool-worthy selection, though the prices are steep. I'm still looking for a magnolia that's container hardy in NYC, small enough to fit into an 18" box, at least for a few years, and fragrant, too! Hey, I can dream, can't I? Jim |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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| How about a wieseneri, heaven scent or fragrant cloud? Or have a look through these: http://www.burncoose.co.uk/catlg.cfm?opt=M&plant=MAGNOLIA |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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| Mary, I just sent you an email. Is this a local nursery or an online nursery? Is it the link below? Did you see this hybrid? One thing that I discovered when I was doing Internet searches last year is that there is a Magnolia Coco, which is similar to Magnolia grandiflora, and there is Michelia coco, which is very different from the others and which has the round golf ball type flowers. This is confusing because the Magnolia Society as decided to reclassify Michelias as Magnolias so I don't know how they are going to reconcile these issues. The M. coco that we know and love seems to be rare and hard to find and can still usually be found in Chinese nurseries. |
Here is a link that might be useful: McCracken Nursery
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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- Posted by daxin z9 Bay Area (My Page) on
Thu, Jan 27, 05 at 1:46
| It seems that McCrackens has scaled back its Magnolia offerings. The following link is their spring 2004 availability list in which there were a lot more magnolias listed. I was looking at M. Aashild Kalleberg (in place of M. Xwieseneri) and M. stellata 'Scented Silver', both of which are supposed to be very fragrant. |
Here is a link that might be useful: McCracken Spring 2004
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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- Posted by JimShy z7 Brooklyn, NY (My Page) on
Thu, Jan 27, 05 at 10:10
| Mr. McCracken is curator of the magnolia collection at Raulston Arboretum, one of the better-known ones in the country. He also helps breed magnolias for a commercial supplier. The trees on his website are all the odds and ends he's working with or produced or has a lot of, so it changes every year. I'm really curious to hear more about the m. coco hybrid -- somebody buy one, please! And just to avoid some of the confusion, note that the Mag. 'Coco' is a cultivar of m. grandiflora, so it should have 'Coco' in quotes; magnolia coco (FNA michelia coco) is a species. Simple, right? ;>) Daxin -- I was dyin' for that 'Scented Silver' last year, but didn't order in time; although I've also heard it's not as scented as it's name suggests. Still, there's always something on the list I'd love to have, if I could persuade the owners of the parking lot next door to give me, say, half the space for planting magnolias! Jim |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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| Mary and I have been chatting by email and agree that McCracken has a hybrid of Magnolia 'Coco,' not Michelia coco. Since the Magnolia Society has reclassified Michelias to Magnolias, this is surely going to cause some confusion. Also, Mary pointed out that Cistus Nursery has a very nice selection of Michelias. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Cistus Nursery
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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- Posted by daxin z9 Bay Area (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 28, 05 at 1:56
| I visited Cistus Nursery briefly last May. It was only about a half-hour drive from downtown Portland, OR. The site is on an island(not so obvious) and is surrounded by farm land. The nursery is filled with succulents, desert plants, and tender trees and plants. Avid gardeners in California may have seen 90% of these plants here and there, but probably not all at one place. I do remember seeing a lot of 5g Michelia platypetala growing in one of the greenhouses. It is really unfortunate that I just find that they have Magnolia odoratissima listed in their plant list. I just pray that they will put it on their mail order list someday. BTW, Joy Creek Nursery is another half-hour or so further away from Portland along the main highway. Their display garden was very nice and they do carry a lot of perennials. The price on their plants, however, was quite steep, about $10 for a 4" pot. So I was quite disappointed, but then I went to visit Cistus and I was happy again since I did get to see some exotic plants that can justify the similarly exorbitant prices. |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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- Posted by JimShy z7 Brooklyn, NY (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 28, 05 at 11:34
| Mary and Clare -- I respectfully disagree, from the description he gave "small, shrubby, not hardy at all" it definitely sounds like he's talking about the species m. coco -- if it was just an m. grandiflora cross with the m. grandiflora 'Coco' it wouldn't be very exciting, but a cross between the big, beautiful grandiflora and the small, night-scented m. coco seems like it could be amazing! Maybe we should email him and straighten it out once and for all! Daxin, You would have to talk about two nurseries I would seriously love to stroll through in the middle of winter here (currently 10 degrees), wouldn't you? Thanks for the info, actually, I'm thinking of ordering a clematis x triternata from Joy Creek this spring. Anyone know of a better source? Jim |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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- Posted by daxin z9 Bay Area (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 28, 05 at 14:07
| Ms. Dorothy Callaway's book of "The World of Magnolias" has an entry for Magnolia 'Shirley Curry', which is a hybrid between M. grandiflora & M. coco. Part of the text is reprinted in the following link. This hybrid is said to resemble M. grandiflora more and presumably a similar hybrid was made in France in 1842! The name of that one is 'Hartwicus'. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Magnolia Society Cutivars Checklist 'S'
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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| JimShy, I agree with you that it sounds as if he is talking about Michelia coco, but I'm just not sure that he is. I don't think Michelias have been successfully crossed with Magnolias -- only other Michelias. The crossing of these two separate species would be major news since they bloom in different ways from each other -- Michelias from the leaf axils and Magnolias at the branch ends. I see that, since there is a Magnolia wilsonii, the Magnolia Society has renamed Michelia wilsonii as Magnolia ernestii Figlar. I just found the Magnolia Society's listing of a "Magnolia coco (Lour.) DC" under the Section and Subsection of Gwillimia. I think their reclassification of Michelias was not proper to do since they are so different from Magnolias. |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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| Well, I just don't know because McCracken's description certainly sounds like Michelia coco. He says this of his hybrid: "Hardiness is unknown, but M. coco is not very hardy at all, so would think the hybrid would only be a zone 8 and warmer plant. Certainly worth trying in zone 7 and maybe even colder." The Magnolia grandiflora 'Coco' is hardy to Zone 7, but the Michelia coco is hardy to Zone 10, barely. It died in my Zone 10b here last winter. Also, as I said, I don't think Michelias have successfully been crossed with Magnolias. It would be interesting to find out. |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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- Posted by daxin z9 Bay Area (My Page) on
Fri, Jan 28, 05 at 18:26
| I have never heard of a Michelia coco so I did a little internet search, and it seems to be an improved, more floriferous cultivar of Michelia figo mainly grown in Australia. So its name should really be Michelia figo 'Coco'. The very frost tender Magnolia coco on the other hand is a straight species and its blooms are always at the tip of branches as with all Magnolias. All in all, we now have three magnolia/michelias with 'coco' in their names to really confuse us: Magnolia coco
Magnolia grandiflora 'Coco'
Michelia figo 'Coco' It sure is a popular name! |
Here is a link that might be useful: Australian Site about Michelia coco
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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| Daxin, I think that link with the Michelia figo 'Coco' is different from the Michelia coco that I am familiar with. The Michelia coco that I used to own also went by the name of Michelia pumila or Magnolia pumila. The flowers were pure white with no pink, and the leaves were thick and leathery and didn't resemble Michelia figo leaves. Here are a few pictures of mine: 
I am convinced now that McCracken crossed the two Magnolias of Magnolia grandiflora and Magnolia grandiflora 'Coco.' The crossing of Magnolias and Michelias has not been successful done yet. |
Oops!
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| Nevermind, Daxin, I just realized the picture in that link is M. ‘Mixed up Miss’ – hybrid of M. doltsopa x M. figo. Soft pink flowers. |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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- Posted by Ron_B USDA 8 WA (My Page) on
Sun, Feb 13, 05 at 21:45
| Cistus has a retail yard out front, with rows of greenhouses behind. Plants desired but not seen in the public area should be asked about, before it is decided they are not available. If you read the account on the Magnolia Society site, absorbing Manglietia and Michelia into Magnolia had a cytological basis, as well as a morphological one. |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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| This is an old thread, but I just found it and thought I would add what I know. The hybrid that Pat McCracken has/had is Magnolia coco x M. grandiflora. Also, Michelia have been successfully crossed with Magnolia several times(one even crossed with Magnolia acuminata!), although hardly any of these hybrids are available in the nursery trade. Magnolia coco has the round golf ball shaped flowers, I've never heard of Michelia coco, except the cultivar sold in Australia of Michelia(now Magnolia) figo. Lastly, the reclassification of Michelia into Magnolias was made based on DNA evidence, as well as more detailed morphologic studies. The DNA studies show Michelia is very closely related to the subgenus Yulania Magnolias(most all of the spring flowering Magnolias in cultivation as well as many other Asian species). In fact Michelia are more closely related to Yulania Magnolias than many other Magnolias are, like the subgenus Magnolia Magnolias, like M. grandiflora, M. virginiana, M. tripetala, etc. Also, the morphology shows that Michelia flower from branch ends, just like all other Magnolias, except the branches they bloom on the ends of, are called proleptic branches(branches that grow from leaf axils). So, it appears DNA and more detailed morphologic studies show Michelia are indeed really Magnolias. Like Ron mentioned, Talauma, Manglietia, Aromadendron, etc. have all been absorbed into Magnolia, again with good DNA and morphological evidence to support this. |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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- Posted by jimshy z7 Brooklyn, NY (My Page) on
Fri, Oct 6, 06 at 12:10
| Kman, thanks for setting the record straight -- now can somebody please buy one and tell us how it smells!? ;>) Jim |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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Hello,
Me and my Magnolias live in the Sierra Foothills of Northern California. A couple of years ago I purchased a Magnolia coco x Magnolia grandiflora from Pat McCracken. I spoke to him personally about the plant as I was not sure it would survive in my climate. It can get 18 degrees F. on a really cold night here and on occasion we have snow. I also bought it because he said the M. coco was the most fragrant Magnolia in his mind. No one at that time had seen it flower, and mine has not flowered yet either. It is a beautiful plant and is doing well. It is about 3' tall and in a 15 size pot at the moment as the mature size of this cross is also not known. I'm really looking forward to the flower too! Best wishes! :D Jagart |
RE: M. coco hybrid!!
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- Posted by jimshy z7 Brooklyn, NY (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 24, 06 at 9:43
| SJ, Please give us a shout if this one blooms over the winter or in the spring! Jim |
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