Not all varieties will do well in zone 6.
here's a link to a previously discussed subject.

Bass

Here is a link that might be useful: persimmon recommendation for zone 6

Hi Keepitlow,

I live in zone 5, Omaha NE. I Have Several persimmon trees. Russian Hybrid Rossyanka persimmon I bought it at eat-it.com (1/2 Asian/American) hardy to -20, fruit size 3'', Nikita's gift persimmon I bought it at Burntridge nursery (Offspring of Rossyanka and cross it with American persimmon) hardy to -10, fruit size 3''. I also had a Ruby American persimmon I bought it at eat-it.com, fruit size very large 21/2-3'', Meader American persimmon I bought it at Miller nursery (very hardy, fruit size about 2-2 1/2''. Prok American persimmon I bought it at Starkbros.com, very hardy, fruit size is very large 21/2- 3''. You can also try Great wall Asian persimmon I bought it at burntridge nursery, very hardy, fruit size 21/2-3''. Just remember all these persimmons mentioned above are astringent types, which mean you have to let it ripe and soft before you can eat it or else it is real bitter. All these persimmons should do well in your zone 6.

Good luck,

Tony

From what I have seen, read and heard from others it seems that giboshi(smiths best), kyungsun ban si(korean), saijo, sheng, and great wall would be good choices in zone 6. Hana fuyu and gwangyang are possibly the best non astringent choices for zone 6. It seems for colder areas like zones 7 and 6 finding varieties that ripen early and are resistant to SDS(sudden death syndrome) are most important. I have lost several varieties through the years to SDS but the above varieties seem to be resistant to this problem. Edible landscaping carries many astringent varieties that may work fine in zone 6 such as san pedro and miss kim which I have no experience with.

My zone is 6B and I have no problems with Jiro and Ichi varieties. I added more varieties this year, but don't know yet how they will handle my zone.
Olga

Olga,
I am trialing jiro in my garden as I have heard it is a good one for colder zones but my tree is only a year old. It is promising to hear you are having luck with it and ichi. How long have you had these varieties planted? For whatever reason I have not had much luck with ichi in my area. I have tried twice and know of at least 2 other growers in my area that have failed with this one, at least long term. I did have an ichi to thrive for about 8 years with heavy fruiting before giving in to SDS. I was sick when that tree died as it was my favorite variety of all.

My Ichi is only in its 4th year. But is produces fruits for me for the last two seasons. Jiro is also about this age and also gives me fruits, very productive.
My sister who lives just a few blocks from me (the same zone :)) has many persimmons and most of them are 10+ years old.
Her oldest is Jiro and it is loaded with fruits now, hundreds and hundreds of them. Unbelievable. Others are doing pretty well too. She doesn't have much dieback (if any at all) on Jiro, Ichi, Hana Fuyu, Sheng, Great Wall and Saijo. Hachiya gets some dieback, but not much. Her area is sunny but somewhat shielded by the close line of Pines on one side and big fence on the other side. Don't know if it helps her persimmons to grow so well in our zone.
I planted Sheng, Chocolate and Coffee Cake recently. Will see how they work for me.

Olga

I've had Great Wall bearing for several years here - and I know of a fellow in Red Lion PA who's grown and fruited GW and Sheng for decades there.
I've seen Saijo bearing heavily here in town, though my young tree hasn't gifted me yet. Got a single Ichi fruit last year. No damage on a number of varieties I've grafted since 2006 - but no fruit yet, either.
Rosseyanka (AmericanXAsian hybrid from the breeding program at Yalta) is a regular producer of big 3" fruits; been growing it here for nearly 10 years with no winter damage. Nikita's Gift is a seedling of Rosseyanka, backcrossed to D.kaki; I don't have it, but it sustains significant winter damage almost every year at Terre Haute, IN - but Jerry L. says it's a better fruit than Rosseyanka.

Tony in Nebraska -- how old are your various trees? How have they fared in your winters (if it's not their first year)? And, are any of them old enough to bear fruit for you?

Lucky -- thanks for all of the great info you give to all of us. You and Bass (Bonsaist) really are my heros! I just wish I had your climate (well, maybe not all of the summer heat and humidity, but some of it).

Denninmi,

Rosseyanka & Nikita's gift are in their 2nd year and doing real well. The first year I stripped their leaves real early (mid-october) to try to get a head start on dormacy and I also Mulched them with grass clipping pretty high up from the base of the trees, but the 2nd year they are on their own. My Ruby & Meader are in their 4 years and I had a dozen of fruits between the two. The Prok and Great wall were planted in 4-09. I Just stripped their leaves in mid-october of this year. I also mulched them with grass clipping pretty high up from the base of the trees a couple days ago. I will see how this two trees will fair next year.

Tony

Got Ichi here in Michigan, and while I haven't gotten fruit from it yet (this was its 3rd or 4th year, I think) it has grown well for me. Last autumn/winter I lost a large portion of its central leader due to someone damaging it (twisting while trying to rip a branch off). It bounced back and has a new leader this year.

Last Summer 2 fruits formed, but both fell off before growing much. Besides the annual spring leaf curling (psylla, I think) it is a carefree, easy plant with great fall color (purple-ish red). I can't wait til fruit adorns the branches as well.

In hindsight I wish I had sprung for a larger plant when I bought it (I got a quart-sized) and I also wish I had put in the drip irrigation during its first couple years. I planted an Elmo (american persimmon) at my Mother-in-law's hourse this past spring and might add another american persimmon this next spring as well.

~Chills (in Michigan)

Thanks, Chills, I was wondering how your persimmon was doing. Being really close to Lake Saint Clair must help some with the winter lows.

How about your Che and Jujubes? Did they make it last winter?

I got my first Hana Fuyu fruits this year, a very good one for both taste and cold-hardiness. My Hachiya took damage last winter and did an odd thing this year: it must have bloomed extremely late because now it has these golfball-sized fruits on it which are never going to ripen.. very odd! I had thought it was not blooming at all but must have missed when it finally did bloom. I don't think the Hachiya will last too many more years, but I have managed to keep it alive for seven years. My Chocolate has been my best and most productive variety but apparently its pollenizer did not bloom this year -- all the fruits dropped. It has been hardy for me even though it is not known as a hardy variety.

Scott

Scott, this is great. I have high hopes for my Chocolate persimmon. I belive I choose it based on your information on hardiness and taste recommendation.
Olga

Denninmi, Jujube's are still underwhelming with regard to their growth rates. They survive winters with little tip-dieback (though the bark on the trunk of one does show splitting from spring temps). The Che took off this year and more than doubled in size. (new growth sure is thorny, though).

Kiwi's were heavily productive and I'm still picking and eating them (along with pawpaws - got last one yesterday and raspberries).

how did your American persimmons do?

~Chills

Chills, thanks for the report from the East side.

With this bizarro cold summer, I'm not surprised that the jujubes didn't grow a lot. A lot of my things sure were sad this year compared to a more normal year. On the other hand, though, I think I ran my air conditioner about 36 hours total this season, so it was good on the electric bill.

My persimmons are, well, pretty much going to be a total loss. Lots of them, but they won't be edible. They are basically green with orange tint around the edges, and I certainly don't see them ripening unless we have some sort of major turn around in the weather and have a lengthy warm spell. I've heard rumors of low 60's this upcoming weekend, but I'll believe it when I see it. They're behind quite a bit from where they were last year at this time, and last year they barely made it.

Here's my Hana Fuyu grown in zone 6. I must have picked about 100 fruit and this is what's left on it. Most of the leaves had fallen off.
{{gwi:124831}}

Bass

Bass/Bonsaist. Very cool.

I'd really give anything to be able to grow these here. Asian persimmons are one of my absolute favorite fruits. The trees that I have started are getting one more winter overwintering in the shelter of the garage (just above freezing).

I've found a little information on the internet about persimmon breeding research using genetic material from the extreme northern end of its natural range in Manchuria and even North Korea. Does anyone know anything more about this?

Wouldn't it be fabulous to have a true D. kaki (or at least some hybrids between the two species) that is absolutely hardy in Zone 5 or even perhaps Zone 4 some day?

The hana fuyu produces male flowers, so they got pollinated and have a few seeds. I will be collecting them and will try to plant them out. It also pollinated the Great wall which had produced a good crop. I will be collecting seeds from that as well. Those seedlings should be very hardy. I can't go to Manchuria to collect persimmon from there, but I can get them from my back yard.

Bass

"Provenance" is often discussed in forums that deal in hardy palms, hardy eucalyptus, etc by zone-pushing enthusiasts. The seedlings from your trees which can survive in your climate should help to make hardier persimmons in the future.

How long does it take a seedling persimmon to fruit? I bet it's quite a few years. The only ones that ever fruited for me did so in 2 or 3 years, but were from grafts. And, out of those 3, two died in 1994 big arctic outbreak.

>I've found a little information on the internet about persimmon breeding
>research using genetic material from the extreme northern end of its natural
>range in Manchuria and even North Korea. Does anyone know anything more
>about this?

Do you have a link for that?

Dennis,
You need to try Rosseyanka - fully winter-hardy in zone 5. It's been fruiting for Jerry Lehman, in Terre Haute, IN for nearly 15 years now, with no winter damage. It's an AmericanXAsian hybrid, from the breeding program at Yalta.
Fruits are large - 3"+, and most reminiscent of an astringent-til-ripe kaki - 'skin' is fairly tough, and holds the sweet, mostly seedless(I've not found a seed in one yet, this year) pulp in, even when it softens to pudding consistency.

I'll try to figure out how to shoot a photo of mine - it's loaded with fruit right now - I've eaten a few that have softened (when I could beat the wasps/yellowjackets to 'em) but most are still firm and hanging well on the tree.

Would be nice to see some hardy non astringent varieties bred.
Olga

Lucky -- I planted a 'Rossenyanka' and a 'Nikita's Gift' from bare-root in-ground this last April. Both took and grew.

Does anyone in the group have any thoughts of whether I should try to give them any special protection for the first winter?

I was thinking about treating each with thiram (for rodents) and dusting with a fungicide, and then putting a rose cone over each and mulching heavily around the outside once the weather freezes up for good in December, and leaving it on until the risk of extreme sub-zero temps ends in mid-March.

Based on our summer weather, I'm afraid it's going to be a really cold winter here.

Hi Bass,

How low does the temp drop where you live in z6. Your hana fuyu look great. Any winter protection with any of your persimmons.

Tony

Alexander3 -- I found a couple of interesting sites about Chinese and Korean cultivars from the northern end of the natural range in Manchuria/Korean Penninsula last year when I was looking into the most hardy varieties. I'll try to locate this info this evening when I have a little more time. I may have saved some of it on a flash drive at home.

I don't provide any protection for my persimmon. I live in a suburb and don't have my trees out in the open exposed to the cold wind. However temperatures had dropped below 0° a couple times in the past year.

{{gwi:124832}}

Bass

The main challenge with growing Rosseyanka in parts of zone 6 concerns not its cold hardiness but its late ripening tendency (later than a mid-season kaki like Hachiya). If your growing season length is on the short side, it's unlikely to ripen before the first deep frosts of November.

Regarding the notion of a repeat of the artic freeze of 1994 when temperatures over much of zone 6 dropped to near or below -20F, it is likely that most of the kakis exposed will be at great risk of dying. These temperature outliers do occur from time to time, and so understanding the tenuous survival of these trees in zone 6 across outliers is an important element in developing a philosophy for growing them. For me its a gamble - any year can easily be the last for the trees. But the outliers are infrequent enough that we can still enjoy growing kakis in the periods between. So losing your kakis during the 94 freeze is just part of the territory; if you can live with the uncertainties, just plant again.

Good points, creekweb.
Rosseyanka is a late ripener here, 70 miles NW of Nashville TN - I've been eating a few fruits that have softened ahead of the main crop for 3 or 4 weeks, but the majority are still hanging well on the tree, and though they're well-colored, they're still firm - I picked a half-dozen last night that had begun to soften; I freeze them whole and eat them like a popsicle.

I had a number of kakis grafted low(1 ft or so above ground) 8-10 years back, that froze out in their first (typical KY) winter - but Great Wall, topworked about 7 ft up in a vigorous volunteer D.virginiana seedling was unscathed and has fruited almost every year since. Some have advocated 'high-working' as a strategy that *may* help overcome some winter damage, but I'm not sure it'll work in every situation. I had some 'tender' mulberries(Cat's Tail, Pakistan, etc.) that had frozen out consistently when grafted low, so I high-worked them about 6 ft upin a M.albaXrubra, and they lasted a couple of years, but still froze out before I ever got any fruit.

I agree - any year can be the last, and if mine freeze out, I'll just re-graft 'em and make another run at it.

Lucky P.,

How many years did it takes for your Rossyanka to fruit?
I asked scottsmith about multi-graft persimmon a while back, I plan to have 4 different varieties (meader, rossyanka, nikita's gift, Ichi) on a D.virginiana in april 2010, but my tree only four feet tall. Should I wait for another year until the tree reach 6 or 7 feet before grafting to avoid freeze out?

Tony

Tony,
I've got so much stuff going that I've lost track of when most things were planted/grafted, and when they began fruiting. I don't recall when I first grafted Rosseyanka(maybe '98 or '99?) or when it produced its first fruits(3 or 4 years ago?).

Multi-variety persimmons are a different creature than multi-variety pomefruits - as persimmons grow, lower branches decline and are shed off, so potentially, a few years down the road, all but whichever variety assumes apical dominance may be 'gone'

As for ripening, does anyone know what ripens soonest among the hardy ones, like Rosseyanka or Great Wall or Sheng?

>Multi-variety persimmons are a different creature than multi-variety >pomefruits - as persimmons grow, lower branches decline and are shed off, >so potentially, a few years down the road, all but whichever variety assumes >apical dominance may be 'gone'

How about establishing a framework in an open center configuration so there is no leader, just 3 or 4 scaffolds? Will the lower branches persist if there are no higher branches?

Alex

There is a lot of overlap in the ripening times of some of the most frequently mentioned cold hardy kaki varieties, as individual fruits ripen over an extended period. Sheng and Smith's Best perhaps peak a little earlier than Saijo and Korean, and Great Wall a little after that. All of these are significantly earlier than Rosseyanka.

I just picked about 200 or so Persimmon off my Hana fuyu. Not bad for a first year fruiting. It has been in ground for about 5 years, the past two years it set lots of flowers but no fruit set. This year it dropped about 75% of it's crop earlier int he summer. The tree knew how much it can handle. I was left with a couple hundred fruit, and the tree is only about 8' tall.
I have learned a lot from my the behaviors of my persimmon trees, such as pruning, picking, and so on.
All I can say I'm a happy persimmon with that many Large sweet persimmon that sell for over $1.50 at the grocery store. My family has been visiting me everyday ever since they startd getting ripe.

Bass

Alex, that is how I make my multi-variety persimmons - I graft them all at the same height and grow open center. Overall I think the better route is to put 3-4 rootstocks in the same hole, to give each variety an independent reason to live; I have a couple of those I did recently.

Scott

Raintree describes Izu as the earliest ripening and says it is hardy to 0F or maybe lower. Edible Landscaping says it ripens almost a month earlier than others, lists it as zone 6.

Alex

I had izu growing for about 6 years prior to the big Easter freeze of 07 which killed it and several other persimmon varieties. Izu was always ripe long before any other variety I had growing. Its fruits were deep orange and ready for harvest in September. In my climate most others are just beginning to show a color break by the end of September. I may have to get another one as I miss having persimmons so early.

That early ripening quality does make Izu sound very appealing. I tried to purchase wood last year from EL but they didn't have any, though they do sell the tree. Davis does have it.

Bass or anyone,

From what I have read and understand about starting a fruit tree from a seed is that you will not reproduce the original cultivar from the seed. For example, the seed from a Haralson apple will produce an apple tree, but it will not produce a Haralson apple tree. Bass, If you collect the persimmon seeds from your trees as mentioned above and try to get the seedlings to be more cold hardy and I am not so sure that you are going to get the original cultivar because your trees are grafted? Is that true?

Tony

It is true that trees grown from seed will be different than the parents. Apple represents one extreme in that you are quite unlikely to get good fruit from a seed grown tree. On the other hand, if you plant a peach pit from a good peach, you have a good chance of getting good peaches from the resulting tree. I'm not sure just where persimmons fall on that scale, but from what little I have heard, they will be more like peaches than apples.

Alex

Alex or anyone

If I go the the grocery store and buy some plum honey and insert the plum pit in the ground in the fall. Once the seedling have grown to about 2 feet tall, I want to cut the scion wood of this tree and graft it to my multi-grafted plum tree. Could this method give me the same plum honey fruit I bought from the store?

Tony

Just like Alex said that seedlings are not identical to the parent tree. Just like how some of us are not identical to our parents but we may come out looking like them.
I wanted to try these seeds for one reason, the possibilities of having a new cold hardy cultivar.

Bass

I always have assumed that peaches are fairly true to seed because they are self compatible and so the majority of the seed is likely pollinated by its own pollen. Apples that are self fertile such as Gravenstein can come pretty true to seed as well, or so I've read. Genetics is definately not my strong suit, however.

Thanks to ALL for the great replies!

Hi, Bass,
Can you share some experience how you take care of your Hana Fuyu? Fertilizing, prue, etc. I'd like to have one in yard, it has only about 7' x 7' space to grow though, so I'd have to keep it small. Not planning get more than 100 fruit any way. Do I just cut off the growing tips to keep the tree in check? The plant in nursery is already about 6' tall, so it should fruit in 1-2 years I suppose.

Is Hana Fuyu same as Giant Fuyu, tag says "Gosho" too.

How tall is your Hana Fuyu after 5 years?

Thanks,
-Layne

My tree is about 8'-10' tall, about the size of a dwarf apple tree. The tree started flowering 3 years after I planted it. However it dropped all the fruit until the tree was about 5 years old and it was loaded with fruit. Because the fruit is heavy, the branches should be pruned and kept closer to the main trunk. Train it as a central leader standard tree. Don't allow any branches below 4' otherwise the fruit will be touching the ground.
Giant Fuyu and Gosho are different varieties.
Don't fertilize the tree if it's in the ground, that will cause the fruit to drop even more.

Bass

Thanks, Bass.

Gosho is a different Persimmon? They put these 3 on the same name tag, Giant Fuyu (Gosho), guess I can get 2/3 varieties on one plant, maybe just the name tag. I did see one "giant" persimmon on one of the trees, it's fruiting this year already and ripening. The fruit was definitely much larger than what we bought from oriental grocery store (Fuyu).

Many websites say "cut the persimmon tree to 3-4' when planting", wouldn't that encourage branching low? Why would people want to cut the tree short, guess they don't want a whip without a good root system, that only apply to bare root mailing order? If get a good growing tree in pot, I see no reason to cut it short.

Also collected some wild persimmon seeds, think they are D. Virginiana. Will try start my own rootstock. This is addicting! No doubt. :) Nursery has them on D. Lotus only.