Return to the Georgia Gardener Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
pomegranates

Posted by esthermgr (My Page) on
Thu, Jan 21, 10 at 11:18

UGA's website said that most named pomegranates do not fruit well in GA, but that there are lots of unnamed "mutts" forgotten in old yards and homesteads that do fruit well. Does anyone have a pomegranate in ATL that fruits well? If named, would you tell me what type? If unnamed, could I come get cuttings from your old faithful mutt?


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: pomegranates

"russian" and "wonderful" do just fine here. Rumor has it that Russian tastes better.


 o
RE: pomegranates

I don't know about _Punica granatum_ 'Russian,' but it is not too unusual for _Punica granatum_ 'Wonderful' to experience winter kill during a severe Southeastern winter. However, if 'Wonderful' is killed to the ground, it will normally regrow from its root system. I have run across a few more cold tolerant pomegranates on the Internet. I think Plant Delights Nursery and Edible Landscaping offer these more cold hardy pomegranates. I think The Chilly Palm Website also lists a reliably cold-tolerant pomegranate.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Russian and Wonderful are the most commonly planted in the city. I know lots of folks who have them, including my neighbors and myself. Mine are in pots still (small) they had no problem with our last freezes.
Lostman from the Atlanta fruits yahoo group and some others also recommend them. No winter kill to the ground here, we don't get cold enough in Atlanta. Edible Landscaping offers another variety "Angel" I think it might be called, red angel. They are hard to find, often out of stock but equally as cold hardy. Nobody stocks them in Atlanta that I know of yet.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Wonderful, may be fully hardy in Atlanta proper with the urban heat center, but I encountered extensive freeze back basically to ground level on the young plant I had, just a little north in Cherokee county, I will probably be giving that cultivar another try, but it will even be a little further north this time. The listed "Russian" from Edible Landscapes is supposedly a very cold hardy cultivar, which was procured from a test station in Georgia. I think there is more than one Pomegranate listed as "Russian" however, and I think the one listed by Just Fruits and Exotics sounds like a different source plant, and they list theirs only to zone 8b. I am as well interested in establishing some, and most the information I have found is that most of the colder hardy cultivars are of Russian origin. I put in a request to UC Davis for cuttings of Kazake and Salavatski of Russian origin as well as Entek habi savehi, I believe from Northern Iran. Kazake, Salavatski have been reported to fare pretty well in Zone 6, but I am not aware of any nurseries that carry them. Search the "fruits and orchards" forum here and there is lots of discussion on pomegranates. I thought I remember a post from someone about one of those old home place plants posted here around Lake Hartwell I believe that fruited well. I as well am interested in obtaining cuttings of cold-hardy productive plants. One thing to note is I have heard these more cold tolerant plants usually have a harder seed.but I ecountered extensive freeze back.


 o
RE: pomegranates

  • Posted by brandon7 6b (like 7b now) TN (My Page) on
    Fri, Jan 22, 10 at 20:34

I'm pretty sure Strudeldog is correct: there is no real cultivar named 'Russian'. Edible Landscaping uses the name as a trade name. They may not even know exactly what they have.

'Wonderful', although hardier than some cultivars, is not nearly as hardy as some others. Many of the cultivars offered by the NCGR, for instance, have proven superior in many ways including hardiness.

One of the Gardenweb members from KY has been trialing a number of the NCGR cultivars for a few years with good results so far. I will be adding about a dozen new varieties this spring.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Hardiness is one thing, ability to tolerate humidity and summer rains is another. In the Southeast, we need a plant that can tolerate both. Many of the new cold hardy cultivars can not. I would say that Kentucky has quite a different climate than we have here in most of Georgia.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Those who claim that it doesn't get cold enough in Atlanta to kill a common pomegranate to the ground must not have been living in the Southeast durring those extremely cold winters of the early to mid-nineteen eighties and also to have forgotten the recent Easter Freeze that wreaked hovoc on many tender ornamentals. Recent winters have been relatively warm in the Southeast, allowing many tender ornamentals to flourish with a false sense of security.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Actually, ggg, summers here in my part of KY are not that different from what I experienced growing up at Auburn, AL(War Damn Eagle, y'all!); it gets hot & muggy here, too - temps into the 90s & low 100s with 150% humidity, just not for as long. How the Russian/Turkmenistani selections will cope with heat/humidity, I don't know.

I had 3 Wonderful poms growing at Auburn that I started from cuttings from a neighbor's tree when I was about 8 years old. They've been growing there for over 45 years now - 2 were in a fairly protected spot in the yard, shielded on two sides by the house and outbuildings, and on a third side by a big M.grandiflora; little or no die-back - ever. But the third one,planted in an exposed site near my dad's vegetable garden, was damaged on a regular basis, and has never assumed half the size or productivity of the ones in the protected site. But jay makes a good point about the possibility of a particularly cold winter nuking 'em back to the ground, even in a good site.

Lots of rain late in the season will result in splitting of the rind and some loss of fruit quality.

No fruit yet on any of the 25-30 'cold-hardy' pom varieties I'm trialing here - Salavatski & Kazake have been in the ground for 3 years now, with little to no die-back; time will tell if ANY of them will survive and produce here.


 o
RE: pomegranates

"temps into the 90s & low 100s with 150% humidity, just not for as long"

So does Toronto, and also Washington DC. They don't have the same climate as most of Georgia do either! Completely different climactic zones.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Lucky was one of the folks I was referencing, as well as another individual in PA that did have fruiting on an unprotected Salvatski outside, and others in TN and MD reporting these cultivars showing promise for marginal areas. I just know my Wonderful did not make the cut in the Atlanta metro area, and though I know Pomegranates do not seem to like our Humidity, I have seen nothing to state that the ones showing more cold hardiness handle it any worse than Wonderful, and would be interested in seeing any info as to such. I dont know how many people have tried them here. Lostman I believe has The Edible Landscape "Russian" which I believe has even been speculated by some to possibly be either Kazake or Salavatski , maybe he will comment on how it handles humidity


 o
RE: pomegranates

I have some of Lostman's Russians (in pots, not yet in the ground) and Farmer Greg from Greenleaf Farms Wonderful (as he knows it, that's what he had) also in pots. I've had Greg's for two years in three gallon pots now, and they don't get any special treatment but being ignored! They do just fine.


 o
RE: pomegranates

  • Posted by brandon7 6b (like 7b now) TN (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 1, 10 at 20:00

"Hardiness is one thing, ability to tolerate humidity and summer rains is another...I would say that Kentucky has quite a different climate than we have here in most of Georgia."


Here are the actual statistics for the morning/afternoon Average Relative Humidity for each month from NOAA. Not a lot of difference between KY and GA.

Lexington, KY - 81/69 79/64 77/58 76/55 81/58 84/58 86/59 88/59 88/58 85/57 81/63 81/68 yearly avg.- 82/60

Louisville, KY - 78/65 77/61 76/57 76/52 82/56 83/57 85/58 87/57 88/57 85/55 80/61 79/66 yearly avg.- 81/59

Atlanta, GA ---- 79/59 77/55 77/52 79/50 82/53 84/56 88/59 89/60 88/59 84/54 82/56 80/59 yearly avg.- 82/56

And even right on the coast...
Savannah, GA - 83/55 82/51 84/49 84/46 86/51 88/56 89/58 91/60 91/60 89/54 87/53 84/55 yearly avg.- 87/54


 o
RE: pomegranates

Good stuff, brandon.
I knew that summers up here *felt* as hot & muggy as the ones I remembered growing up across the Chattahoochee River from Columbus GA - and I'm located quite a bit south of Louisville or Lexington; much closer to Nashville TN than either of those 'northern' cities.
Winters are colder and longer here than down home. I don't really have any major doubts about whether poms can mature fruits here - winter survival with minimal to no protection will be the make-or-break feature.


 o
RE: pomegranates

In the Atlanta area, you would need a cultivar reliably hardy to 10. That is probably your 30-yr average minimum. Forget trying to find something reliable to
January 1985's -5F!

You could always plant on a berm to resolve the drainage problem. Atlanta is not as humid as one is led to believe. NYC is more humid, Memphis is more humid, ......


 o
RE: pomegranates

  • Posted by rjinga middle ga, zone 8 (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 14, 10 at 21:33

I took cuttings off a 40+ year old unknown variety "mutt" this past spring and out of about about 20 cuttings, I got about a dozen or more to root and they regrew their leaves. My DH remembers eating pom's from this tree as a kid (he's 40 now) The tree is near Hawkinsville GA which tends to get even colder temps than where I live (near Macon)

I have had these cuttings in my GH as soon as started getting colder, so this spring will be the tell tale if they made it ok.

I was also given a tree that was potted up (also not sure of the variety) it was covered on several occasions on frosty nights) it did not come back this past spring.

I have another that I got this past year, and it was a "wonderful" , so we will see if it made it through the winter. It was also potted up, but it's roots got through into the ground and I could not move it.


 o
RE: pomegranates

These are from the Hartwell "mutt" which I have not seen but is supposed to be a large tree. This year a lot of the pomegranates from the original tree split due to the rain. I have a small bush that I started last year from cuttings.

I also have Koine and Ink from UC Davis, both just a year old.

< img src =http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa93/Scott_GA/pomegranates.jpg>


 o
better link

Maybe this is a beter link?

Here is a link that might be useful: pomegranates


 o
RE: pomegranates

Scott,

How did you select those 2 to try from UC Davis? Just curious if you found a descriptive page I have missed that covers more than the name and country of origin. I am hoping to get the the ones I requested from there. It will be my 1st shot at rooting one. A few I have found info on some googling, but some of their listing I found no info on. Your Hartwell mutt sounds interesting, Big lakes sometimes provides a warming effect for small areas I wonder if that has helped it mature large without freezing back. Lets hope it does well in other locations as well. That it is a large tree is promising, I would think it would have to survived single digits at some time.


 o
RE: pomegranates

This link provides some information on the Turkmenistan pomegranates. Go down to the end of the article..
http://www.fao.org/docrep/x0270e/x0270e04.htm#LOC_P3987_207354

I was interested in one that was longer keeping and produced good juice, so went with Koine-Kasyrsky kislosladkyi krasnyi. I also got a Parfyanka, but couldn't keep it alive. Also see:

www.crfg.org/chapters/santa_clara/FruitLeafNovDec08.pdf

also see why I got Ink --Large, sweet (brix 17.6 second only to wonderful and eversweet):

www.crfg.org/chapters/santa_clara/FruitLeafNovDec08.pdf

www.borglum.com/crfgr/august_newsletter_2009.pdf

http://www.angelicaherbs.com/detail.php?id=576

http://edvaldivia.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=681

http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-12-06/home-and-garden/17522566_1_pomegranates-tasting-california-rare-fruit-growers/2

We'll see how they do in Georgia.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Thanks for the links, some good info there. Ink was very favorably reviewed hope it does well. I just received a couple rooted cuttings, and should get at least something from UC Davis material this month and Hopefully I have some sucess rooting those.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Have any of you had any experience with a newer pomegranate called Angel Red? I have ordered two from Johnson Nursery in Ellajay. Much of what I read rates them as likely the best pomegranate nowadays. I am in Barnwell, SC. Thanks for any information. John


 o
RE: pomegranates

johnhenry, I do grow Red Angel. I have not yet sampled mine. I purchased it from JOhnson - and it has been hardy and now very productive in it's 2nd year in the ground. Growing beautifully!!


 o
RE: pomegranates

The real name for Angel Red (a trade name) is 'Smith' (Punica granatum 'Smith'), in case anyone is searching for more info on it. Unfortunately it's a patented variety, so cuttings can't be propagated freely, which is a shame since I'd like to try it.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Are they being sold in nurseries, or mail order is the way to go?


 o
RE: pomegranates

I've grown all of mine from cuttings (most from the UC-Davis program) except maybe one (can't remember for sure about one). They are so easy to grow from cuttings, that I think it's well worth it. There are a number of mail-order sources though. Bay Laurel, Burnt Ridge, Edible Landscaping, Johnson Nursery, Raintree, and Rolling River are but a few of the mail-order sources for pomegranates. You may also find more with the list linked below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sources for Fruit Trees and Plants


 o
RE: pomegranates

Thank you Brandon!


 o
RE: pomegranates

UGA has been studying pomegranates since 2007. They did publish the varieties that fruited most heavily out of the 20 or so that they had at Tifton, GA.In GA Nikitsi Ranni and Cranberry were at the top. It was targeted towards commercial growers though, so that means peel color is factored in as well as hardiness and taste. I'll post the link if anyone wants.


 o
RE: pomegranates

I found some that appear to be cold hardy. I don't know much about this site, so I'm not advocating them, but they do have some interesting plants.
The Fleichman is supposed to have soft seeds and be hearty to 15F.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pomegranates


 o
RE: pomegranates

I have a 40 year old pom which has lived in an exposed clay soil in northern Virginia, (Chantilly), min temp in that time was minus 8 F, Humidity and heat can be terrible there. VERY small fruit, but tastes good (not very sweet, but tangy and good flavour)(seeds forget eating), but the arils make a very tasty treat for breakfast. (Will have one tomorrow morning I picked a week ago.
As this is clearly a VERY hardy variety, I would like to graft it with some of the others I am trialing. Anyone have any experience with this? Rootstock hardiness does not necessarily translate into hardiness of what is grafted, but might add a few degrees ?? Any comments??
Happy to trade for some hartwell cuttings.
PJKFARM@gmail.com


 o
RE: pomegranates

"I would like to graft it with some of the others I am trialing. Anyone have any experience with this? Rootstock hardiness does not necessarily translate into hardiness of what is grafted, but might add a few degrees ?? Any comments??"

Without some huge benefit, I personally wouldn't want a grafted pom. They are way too easy to grow from rooted cuttings and the plant suckers to the point that a grafted specimen would require unnecessary maintenance, IMO.

The problem with pom hardiness is much more about the ability of the fruit to ripen well in colder climates rather than the actually plant hardiness (at least for most types and in our climate zones). I really doubt the grafting would change much, and I can't see benefits that would justify the effort.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Angel Red gave me 65 HUGE poms last year, very nice fruits. This year half that. Still delicious!


 o
RE: pomegranates

ggg,

How were the seeds on those? Everyone says that the Angel Red is packed full of arils in each fruit, but that the seeds are just as hard as Wonderful, if not harder.


 o
RE: pomegranates

I don't have a problem with the seeds. Seems like an average "crunch" to me. We enjoy them!


 o
RE: pomegranates and trade list

girlgroupgirl I saw your want list - have quite a few you might like or that are on your list. Can trade for cuttings!
all organic! Need email to contact.
Peter


 o
RE: pomegranates

I just got my shipment of the softseed varieties:
Parfyanka, Desertnyi, Sirenevyi, Sin-Pepi in 1 gallon pots.

I live in a northern suburb of Atlanta I am debating weather to grow them in pots to be brought in during the winter or risk growing them outside in a sunny spot.

Anyone have these varieties that can offer some suggestions? Thanks, Chris.


 o
RE: pomegranates

We have Desertnyi planted out in the open this past spring. Will know something, maybe, this spring as to how it does. If warm winter, will need to wait another year and so far, looks like we are out of luck. I do not like the big freezes, but we now have probably 20 or more hardiness tests going on and with all our warm weather, no results (and it hurts when one has a nice plant of some size after three or four years that gets nailed when there is a cold blast.......Drop me a line in May and I can tell you what has happened along with climate notes for this winter.


 o
RE: pomegranates

I'm curious too. Since we're in 8A now (metro area), they should survive. I've got Satsumas and Meyers that work just fine, so I don't know why Pomegranates wouldn't work. I hear the fruiting can be hurt by the frosts though. Richard Ashton recommends early fruiting varieties if you want soft seeded poms. I have Sverikranny (very early, soft seeded) and Salavtski in the ground with second spring coming.

girlgroupgirl said Angel Red worked great, but it is also early. If Desertnyi and Parfianka can survive a Georgia winter or spring, I would for sure get one of the two. I heard Desertnyi does well in some parts of Texas and FL, but no news from GA, Al, SC or other parts of the SouthEast....

Please keep us posted...


 o
RE: pomegranates

Update: Might as well keep this thread going. My Salavatski never woke up, but the Sverikranny did. I got a Parfianka to replace it, so I guess I'm all in on the soft seeded varieties..


 o
RE: pomegranates

Hey manfromyard, I have looked online for the Sveriknanny vairety you mentioned and have come up empty, does it have another name? If you dont mind asking, where did you get it? I would really like to find a soft seed variety that I can keep in the ground here in Atlanta, thanks, Chris.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Chris,

I got that one from Rolling River Nursery. I looked for the early ones that Richard Ashton named in his book. I figured those would be the best bet to get the soft seeded fruit for those of us in 7b, 8a. Sumbar,Sumbarski,Syunt, Medovyi Vahsha, Angel Red and Granada are also early, but Granada and Angel Red have a little harder seed (more medium than really soft).

Angel Red is pretty common now, and most nurseries (even Johnson and Ison's) have it now. Medovyi Vahsha I got from cuttings this year at UC Davis as I could find no one with it. Hope they root well as they are leafing out really nicely. The others you have to time Rolling River's stock or maybe try sending an e-mail to Green Sea farms in Florida....

I attached a link to Rolling River as they do seem to have a few of Sverkhranniy in stock at the moment...

Here is a link that might be useful: Rolling River page with stock listed here...


 o
RE: pomegranates

my grand mother has a couple of of pomegranates in her yard thats been there about 60 yrs or so nobody knows what kind they are but they are full of soft ball size fruit every yr


 o
RE: pomegranates

my grand mother has a couple of of pomegranates in her yard thats been there about 60 yrs or so nobody knows what kind they are but they are full of soft ball size fruit every yr


 o
RE: pomegranates

Just an update to this thread. Cutting grown from Hartwell "mutt" pomegranate is now 5 years old and produced 20 pomegranates this year. Koine-Kasyrsky kislosladkyi krasnyi (same age) is still alive (surviving a low of 12F last winter), but hasn't put out any fruit yet. Ink died.


 o
RE: pomegranates

Per the suggestion of manfromyard, I ordered from Rolling River a Sverkhranni and Sumbar and my shipment just arrived.

Here is a list of varieties I am now trying to grow, I am in a northern suburb of Atlanta.
Most plants I have had for 1 and 2 years so no fruit yet.

In ground plantings:

R-6 Al Sirin-nar
R-8 salavatski
R-26 Afganski
R-30 Kazake
R-31 Saartuzki
R-33 Surhanor
Sverkhranniy
Sumbar
Kaj-acik-anor

Planted in pots:

Parfyanka
Desertnyi
Sin Pepe
Fleischman
Angel Red


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Georgia Gardener Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here