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Gray Water use
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Posted by yomamanem 7B Georgia (My Page) on Sun, Jul 8, 07 at 11:06
I haven't been on this forum for a while. Has the use of gray water been discussed? I just wrote an editorial in our local paper about the poor instructions by authorities to city and county water users concerning the total water ban (with confusing exceptions) and the lack of accurate information for using "gray" water safely.
I am trying to save gray water from my tub/shower and some from the kitchen sink. I have also hooked up my air conditioners (condensation water) to water hoses that go out in the garden and under trees. I don't have any rain barrels but I will get some.
What are some of you doing during this distressing drought? |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Gray Water use
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| I'm not doing anything to the extent that you are, but I guess I'm helping by hand watering plants, shrubs, vs. using sprinklers. We have a fescue lawn and I'm not watering it at all. I've been looking into several online sites to purhase rain barrels. |
RE: Gray Water use
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| yom, we have rain barrels, so I'm not currently collecting water from the air conditioner in this house (we are in temporary housing while we have a large renovation done in our home). When air gets hooked back up next door, I plan to extend the flexible hose line and make it into a drip system. We are currently looking into a grey water reclimation system (from washing machine, upstairs sink and upstairs shower) that will do two things. It will first go into the toilets to flush them instead of using fresh water for flushing. Any extra grey water (not from toilets, of course) will then go into a tank for watering the back yard and deck planting areas. Overflow from this goes back into the regular water system. I also plan to have a tank for excess run off of neighboring properties installed, with a filtration system of plants and rocks (which can also filter the water from the large grey water tank). To hold grey water for a period of time, it does need to be somewhat cleaner and fresher than just from use, and that is the goal. We want to be able to have enough water for a small urban farm and also all our landscaping and tree needs. GGG |
RE: Gray Water use
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| Still talking about greywater reuse, I see. I, too, haven't been here for a while. Yom: what paper did you put your editorial in? I'd love to read it! GGG: Be careful. In my research on greywater recycling, reuse of greywater in toilets and on vegetables were cited as specific examples of hazardous greywater practices. Such things are the reason that Health Departments have made greywater recycling illegal. I would hate to hear that you have suffered from some deleterious effect similar to the spinach outbreak last winter. I know that was e-coli, but there are a lot of other nasties out there :). |
RE: Gray Water use
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| It is legal and safe in Georgia to use small tank reclimation systems to recycle water for toilet flushing. After flushing, that water is diverted out into the sewage, of course. The tanks inside are fairly small on purpose, they don't hold water for long periods of time so that bacteria don't get out of control. There are a few companies in Atlanta that now install these systems safely for you. Most cities will allow this reclamation ONLY if a certified installer installs a system like BRAC. GGG |
RE: Gray Water use
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RE: Gray Water use
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| Does anyone know of any companies in/around Atlanta that install gray water recycling systems? Or rainharvest collection sytems for irrigation? I've only found 1 company and they won't call me back! |
RE: Gray Water use
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| http://www.rainharvestcompany.com/about/index.php http://www.bracsystems.com/home.html http://www.southface.org/web/resources&services/publications/journal/sfjv105/sfjv105-brookhaven_cistern.htm I would call any company that claims to install sprinklers, drip irrigation etc. and ask if they have the service you require. The more people who request it, the more companies will offer it. You could also contact Southface to see if they have anyone listed in NARI who offers this service. I suspect Rainharvest are swamped with business! girlgroupgirl |
RE: Gray Water use
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| Thanks for all this Atlanta specific info. I esp. appreciate the names of companies who have experience. I agree wtih the first writer, that the information out there is very vague on "how to" creat water conservation systems in one's residence. I am going to contact southface and also the companies you suggested. I live on a spring fed lake, where we swim. I want to be certain that any reuse system we get does not threaten the health of the water in the lake. I am also looking into a pump that can help us use the lake water to irrigate. This seems like an easier, more well known system. I still want to find ways to reuse water though from the house. I have heard that water from the a/c is not a bacteria threat (as can be washing maching and shower/bath water) and can be used directly from the a/c onto the landscape. Is this true? If so, that could be my step #1, to get this going... |
RE: Gray Water use
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| Here is a quote from a book entitled _Sustainable Construction: Green Building Design and Delivery_, by Charles J. Kibert, PhD, PE, professor at the University of Florida, Gainesville, "Although the issue is still being debated by public health officials, no case of illness has ever been traced to graywater reuse." |
RE: Gray Water use
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| Good question, yomamanem. We have the rain barrels, but first you have to have enough rain to collect in them, lol. We had a 55 gallon drum. DH diverted the hose from the washing machine to the drum and then a sump pump pumps the water out through a pipe through the dryer vent and into a hose. We move the hose around the yard as needed. It is a nuisance, but we have plenty of water to water the hydrangeas, weeping cherry and newly-installed row of crepe myrtle. At the kitchen sink, I keep a large rectangular container and collect grey water which then goes into a couple of gallon jugs, most of which gets poured on the ferns at the back door. Really, I am appalled at how much water goes straight from the faucet to the drain without serving any useful purpose. We have just started to think about how to save the shower water without having to carry jugs through the house. Our new dishwasher is a Bosch which uses very little water, but the old dependable Maytag washing machine is a water hog and we're thinking about replacing it with a more efficient front loader, even though mechanically, it still works fine. |
RE: Gray Water use
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| I too am interested in using greywater as well as rain barrels. I found all my questions answered in a great book by Art Ludwig "Creating an Oasis With Greywater" reasonably priced at amazon. I highly recommend this book to amyone wanting to learn about using greywater safely. His book "Water Storage: Tanks, Cisterns, Aquifers, and Ponds for Domestic Supply, Fire and Emergency Use--Includes How to Make Ferrocement Water Tanks" is on order but have not received it yet. " Builder's Greywater Guide: Installation of Greywater Systems in New Construction & Remodeling; A Supplement to the Book "Create an Oasis With Greywater" is a great guide if you are building your own home. |
RE: Gray Water use
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| I have been reading all these helpful responses to my original post. As a matter of fact, I am building a new house and I hope to incorporate some "green" into it. My husband is keeping our costs down as much as possible. Isn't it ironic how things that are good for people and the environment are the most expensive? Healthy food is the most expensive. "Green" construction is expensive. People need to make changes, even little ones, but they are impeded by cost and custom. An incandescent bulb is far cheaper than a fluorescent. No-fat Pringles are twice the cost of regular Pringles. I could go on and on. I would love to put in government approved cisterns, solar panels, etc. but it all adds up if you want to help the environment. Whine whine |
RE: Gray Water use
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| yomamanem, you can remind your husband that green construction pre-pays in many cases, rather than costing more over the long haul. That is, you pay up front to have lower bills later on. This isn't true of all green construction, but it is true for a lot of things you can do when building. |
RE: Gray Water use
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| Yom, during our remodel and renovation we added many "green" attributes to our home. The first was hot water on demand, we had the unit installed very close between two bathrooms so that we have very little time to wait in the shower before hot water comes. That is a key with these systems. Fiberglass BLOCK insulation on the exterior of a block foundation. This is a very unique and unusual thing to do. These are black blocks, which are used to made molds for pipe fittings so you buy them at the pipe fitters (ones who do terracotta or cement). They are about 4" thick and 15" by say 10" (or slightly larger). They have a high R value, and termites will not eat thru them. Our stairwell has about 5' or so of cement block above grade. That was sealed as usual, then the fiberglass put on the outside of that, skim coated and then stuccoed. It looks amazing and increased the R value of the stairwell that is mostly glassed in. In a new construction, I'd have done any exposed block foundation area with this stuff on the exterior. Amazing.
The interior we used spray foam insulation. It's not green from an off-gassing situation at all. We had it done months ago and aren't ready to go back in to live (I have more work to do!) and I appreciated the waiting period. However, the increased insulation is INCREDIBLE and it is the cone of silence in any room that was insulated including a mainly glass, tall stairwell!!
The stairwell itself is a greenhouse. We had to be very careful about the whole heating and air distribution and load in the home (the unit already existed) especially with the stairwell. We haven't vented it so far, but will do so as we see how the air and heat/cooling works for a season or so. What could be just a big, draining load on the systems of the home as a unique purpose now. It also collects water for the plants inside the stairwell via a chain and a rain barrel off the corner of the slanting roof. We bought local. I found lots of things I really wanted, and much of it was made here within 100 miles - such as the ceramic tile in the shower and the china sink and toilet. The plumbing supplier kept the renovator up on all this info because we mentioned up front we'd prefer it. SOme things had to come from China though that I wanted. It was a balance, but I feel pretty good about the choices. Natural vs. man made...some things we purchased were man-made. There are natural choices - terracotta or stone/marble flooring/wood flooring and counters etc. I decided against using them and opted for man made floors and counters. To me they were more practical in price, and actually the carbon to produce stone etc. is MORE than the carbon to produce the VCT floor and laminate counters. Plus they were WAY WAY less expensive. You are absolutely right about cisterns Yom. The state is not taking the "real" measures it could to preserve our water such as guidelines and encouragement of using cisterns, solar etc. With a drought, imagine how great it would be if some of the landscape installers had the ability and access to install in-ground or above ground cisterns? It would keep them financially viable!
Solar will be way, way less expensive in the next 5 years. There has been a flat "screen" that looks like landscape cloth that was invented and marketed last year. That makes panels so affordable, and the systems will be much simplified to interface with the fabric panels. There are many people who have the goal to make things like solar more affordable to those who desperately need to reduce their monthly bills, so all of this is on the way. Everyone can benefit from it. There are so many little things you can do that add up. What I did was lay out the savings over time on paper for the DH. He jumped for just about anything that would pay for itself in 3-5 years (or less...) Good luck!
GGG |
RE: Gray Water use
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| Great ideas. I love the solar panel 'fabric'. Most HOAs will not allow solar panels, but they could not object to the fabric. |
RE: Gray Water use
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| GGG, I loved hearing about what you've done. As for HOAs not allowing solar panels ... I think in the interests of alternative energy, they should think of a way that they CAN allow them. |
RE: Gray Water use
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| I think we'll be carrying the solar fabric where I work. It can be mounted on a variety of substrates and attached to the roof in a very flat panel. There is still limited dealers for the fabric, and I'd like to try using it first before we offer it. Maybe next year (after we've finished renovations at work) we can get some and try it out. Using it commercially is difficult because of huge loads, so I need to use it trying a small load, like greenhouse lighting or fans. My goal is to try it flat mounted (we have a flat roof) and also try traditional angle mounted and see what works best. It would be fun to also set up small do-it yourself solar stations for cistern and rain barrel pumps and other garden oriented single loads. Yesterday was the first "cold" day in the house and I did notice the stairwell was cool. Not too cold to be a greenhouse, but cool (the heat was on very low). We aren't living in there yet (still working on some things) - so I'm still interested in how the stairwell will function as a greenhouse. It may need heat mats. GGG |
RE: Gray Water use
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Yomamanem - look into cellulose insulation. It's 'green' technology at it's best - recycling a waste product(newspaper, etc.), will cut heating/cooling costs by 40% compared to the same R-value fiberglass insulation, it will not burn, and due to the boric acid treatment most states require, it's also insect-repellent(no termites or roaches!) - and, it's a tremendous soundproofing material. And, less expensive than foam.
When a co-worker built her new home a few years back, they found it was less expensive to pay to have cellulose blown in all wall cavities and overhead than to purchase fiberglass batts and install them themselves. |
RE: Gray Water use
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The cellulose is good, but it can pack and break down over time, and has a lower (much lower) value than the foam. It also doesn't protect against insects and mold if that is a problem for you.
I had originally planned to go with the cellulose, but with the wallboard down for renovations, the foam was easy to install and has given us a leap in R-value and soundproofing. In low/flat ceiling areas it is also preferable because you don't need as much as it sprays directly on the supports and under wood, also provides some additional water proofing. Over all, for our needs I found the foam was perfect. Not wild about the fumes though. GGG |
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