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judyj_gw

Problems with a strep

judyj
9 years ago

Hi Folks,
Thought I'd post this here. Of five streps I ordered in July from the Violet barn, three of them are showing some silvery spots on the leaves. Doesn't look like powdery mildew but it is affecting the leaves. One of them has also taken on what I'd consider to be a bad coloring. The name of that plant is Tropical Sunrise.

I'll attach pix, but it's hard to see the silvery spot. It's the spot on the left leaf right towards the front a little over halfway down the leaf on this first picture.

Should I cut the leaf off at that point? The second pic will show the coloring-which I typically equate with a problem.

These guys are grown under lights on capillary matting, and fed each watering at 1/8 strength. The others are not showing the green coloring, but one has the silver spots on two of it's leaves. Another, the silver spot has become a defect, e.g. the leaf in that spot has a dead spot.

Does anyone know what this might be or how I can find out?

Appreciate any help you can provide-thanks so much! This is my third set of streps from the VB, and I've never had these issues before.

Best,
Judy

Comments (54)

  • dbarron
    9 years ago

    Somewhat off topic..though support I guess. Today I came in from shopping and noticed one of my strep leaves looked a bit droopy...I picked up the pot and examined and remembered I'd watered yesterday.

    Beats of panic went through my chest as I hoped that I hadn't jumped the gun on watering too soon (lol). I went away for an hour and when I cooked lunch, I looked again, and it was turgid again, so not sure....

    So, basically, upset about nothing probably....but we do care for these little plants, don't we ?

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    LOL! Yes we do!

    Maybe it's one of those weird "Go figure, right?" things!:-) I'll turn off the lights for a couple days. Maybe I put them in there too soon. Never had any sent so small. Thought they were ready, but maybe they have not been able to assimilate /photosynthesize that much light.

    It certainly won't hurt anything-and the silver spots still don't look like a fungal disease. Plus, dang-it, they're all trying to bloom! They will likely get enough light from the windows for a while!

    What are you growing for streps? :-)

    You're certainly a calming voice! :-)

    Best,
    Judy

  • dbarron
    9 years ago

    I'm strictly small potatoes, I have one windowsill fit for streps (and only one). Most of my gardening is outside. I've killed many streps, on and off. I never really figured them out till last year (watering really)...though I've grown orchids before...you'd think there's enough similarity to many orchids that I would have gotten my head around it.

    I have a dwarf (least I think of it that way), Bristol's Tye Die, and two russian #'s (7046 and 7001I think) (7046 I think is named Garu now, it's blue heavily netted black with yellow on throat, 7001 is salmon pink with yellow and netting)

  • User
    9 years ago

    Judy, I may have bad news for you. From the picture you supplied and how you are describing how it appears on the leaves, I am leaning to my hunch when I saw the picture. Powdery mildew.

    It is not the end of the world. Unfortunately, once a leaf gets powdery mildew, you can spray the area with fungicide and it will disappear for awhile. From experience, many times it will reappear because it gets into the leaf's tissue.

    If I am correct, because the plant is small, I would treat the leaf until the plant gets larger. Spray the other leaves to keep it from spreading and getting a foothold on other leaves. When the plant is large enough, cut it off! Continue to spray your plant and provide air circulation. Spray for a few weeks after cutting the leaf to be sure and do not crowd plants so air can circulate between.

    It happens to the best of growers. And at some point in time we all go through this.

    Dave G.

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Dave,
    What should I be spraying it with? I've read that Lysol is no longer a viable option....doesn't work.

    And surely-this must have come from the vendor's? None of my others are showing this, only the ones on that tier of the min-green house (bottom).

    I can just get rid of them, though I'm not happy about it-and obviously they cost money. But I'm not willing to sacrifice my others for these....

    Yikes....

    Thanks Dave-
    Best,
    Judy

  • User
    9 years ago

    Judy, you don't need to toss them. Get some Physan 20. Mix per directions. The powdery mildew if in the leaf tissue will reoccur but if you are spraying regularly when it appears will not spread. I would let them grow out and cut affected leaf as soon as possible. I have had plants do thie same as you shown and did manage the mildew until I could cut the leaf. If it is toward the end of a leaf, you can cut just that section off. I would cut it at least 1/2" further into the unaffected section to be sure.

    Being at the bottom of your shelves the atmosphere maybe cooler. Powdery mildew occurs many times under 3 conditions 1. Cool, damp conditions, 2. Temperature fluctuations that vary widely and 3. Poor air circulation.

    It happens to the best Judy. Just keep those plants quarantined from your others until the mildew is cut off. If it really bothers you, take a healthy leaf to set and root.

    Dave G.

    Dave G.

  • dbarron
    9 years ago

    As a general rule, powdery mildew is a response to environmental stress weakening the plant. It shouldnt spread to other plants, though chances are spores are already in the environment. Do not despair!

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    OK will do, won't freak out. But if it's in the tissue, then I don't see how I can successfully propagate. Dave?

    Guess I thought that PM was something that was er, blowable. There isn't any dust on these guys.

    However, this year, because of the excessive amount of rain we've had, I've lost several outdoor plants in the garden. Three to PM, but make no mistake, I don't touch them without gloves and there's no way of passing it along (clothes change too).

    Maybe our humidity levels are so high they're affecting the indoor stuff. Yet I try to ignore it. It's kind of like going to try on a pair of shoes you really like, but they don't fit. Then coming back round to the store 1/2 hour later and checking to ensure they haven't changed size! :-)

    At this time and going to look at the bright side. We all have these things and have to deal with them as they come! :-)) Thanks All!

  • User
    9 years ago

    Judy, it will only be in the tissue of the leaf that is affected. Whoever it appears it is mostly likely in the tissue of the leaf of that area. That is why it reappears after treating. The leaves without pm can be propagated.

    The affected parts can be cut off once you feel the plant is big enough. The upside is it will encourage new growth!

    Dave G.

  • dbarron
    9 years ago

    If conditions improve, it probably won't reoccur.

    I still say that shipping (and possibly heat ? stress during shipping) could have brought it on. I've opened up shipments of plants before (yes, it was silly of me to order in high summer), that seemed like they had been in a sauna. Amazingly plants usually make it...but geez, what I put them through!

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Dave, would this be the problem with the weird yellow coloring as well? That seems a different problem but I've not had to deal with the PM before.

    Thanks-
    Judy

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    It does appear I have to order the Physan. No one carries it nearby.

    It's no problem though, I'll order it tomorrow. In the meantime, several of these had pretty long leaves where the "blight" was and I cut those down quite a bit.

    Does anyone know-can one use Physan as a preventative? I'll look it up on Google, but just thought I'd ask.

    Thanks!

    Best,
    Judy

  • User
    9 years ago

    Judy, the yellow in the leaf is not related to the pm. It is usually a deficiency of a nutrient. Try to use a fertilizer with micro-nutrients. Personally I use Better-Gro orchid fertilizer 20-13-14. Sometimes plants start out with a yellow look to them and then turn a normal green as they age.

    Jules is a variety that I have that is notorious for that. Starts out yellowish green then turns green as it matures.

    Dave G.

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks Dave! I'll do that!

  • merkity
    9 years ago

    i just read somewhere that a 1/10th solution of milk/water will get rid of mildew. looks like it needs to be a weekly spraying. i am planning to try this on my garden outside - ugh!

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Boy I'd like to know how that works out Merkity. I'd read somewhere that you can propagate Irish moss by mixing a bunch with buttermilk and pouring it where you want it. So I'm curious to see if a milk product will work. I'm a little nervous that it might perpetuate the problem, since it the moss seems to thrive with it.

    Please let us know!

    Best,
    Judy

  • dbarron
    9 years ago

    Buttermilk is just used as a carrier for chopped up moss in that case. I wonder about milk controlling it...does it contain an active ingredient? or is it just the film of milk on the leaf (I wonder).

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Don't know-never had the guts to try it, LOL!

    On the happy side, it turns out the strep with the yellow coloring-well it appears to be normal to that strep! I looked it up and yep, it's got far yellower leaves than other streps! :-)

    Best,
    Judy

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Haven't ordered the stuff yet, but after trimming the leaves, am no longer seeing any signs of the silvering. Right now I'm taking that as a good omen, but ordering the Physan anyway!

    Thanks all-
    Best,
    Judy

  • dbarron
    9 years ago

    I hope I can say, 'I told you so.', but we'll have to wait and see.

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    :-) I hope so too! Thanks!

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Well a little too soon. Trying to order some physan 20, but Amazon's giving me issues about shipping and everyone else wants a minimum order Anyone here ever order it before, and from where? :-)

    Best,
    Judy

  • User
    9 years ago

    Judy, I buy mine on eBay. Just type Physan 20 in the search. I don't remember who I got it from. Sorry!

    Dave G.

  • treehugger101
    9 years ago

    Judy, I bought by baby streps from VB the same week you bought yours. Both of mine from that supplier have the silvery spots. I am so glad you posted this! I ordered Physon from Amazon. Hopefully, it will get here. None of the my other streps have it. I LOVE my streps!!! They have muscled out all of my other houseplants and succulants. There is just something about them...

    Terri

  • dbarron
    9 years ago

    I wondered if it was the heat in shipment, but maybe VB is infested (lol).

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    :-) It's seems hard to imagine that two separate orders from the same place at the same time going to entirely different places in the US would spontaneously develop PM when it wasn't present before!

    Hi Terri,
    Just to let you know-Physan 20 will only control it, not eradicate it. If you read up a bit, Dave mentions that once it's in the leaf tissue it will only be controlled, not eradicated.

    Though I used it on my streps, a few of my AVs also came down with it. I ended up buying Spectracide Immunox multipurpose fungicide and using that. It is probably the equivalent of Phyton 27 (note the difference between Physan and PhyTON). Here is a link someone from the AV group sent me:
    http://www.physan.com/african_physan.html

    Both Phyton 27 and Spectra Immunox are supposed to eradicate it within the leaf tissue-we'll have to wait and see.

    With AVs, I can at least pluck the affected leaves of pretty quickly, but wanted something more definitive. I washed all my trays with the Physan 20 solution (you'll understand when you read the article), and sprayed all the affected plants with the Spectra. Physan 20 can be used to help prevent PM also, so I also added solution of that to the capillary mats I'm using. Keeping my fingers crossed! By the way, I didn't buy Phyton 27 because Spectra was available at Lowe's locally.-didn't have to order it!

    I wonder if we should be telling Rob at VB about this...

    Hope this helps-
    Best,
    Judy

  • treehugger101
    9 years ago

    Judy, I emailed Rob about this. He basically told me he was not going to do anything about it, it is everywhere, blah blah. I have 25 streps now and only his had the powdery mildew when I opened the box. It is a shame because one I really wanted though these two were the tiniest plants I have received from anywhere. I will cut my losses, spray the plants, move them to a different room and buy from other suppliers.

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yeah, that's me now too-now that you've told me Rob's response. Sad but what else are you going to do?

    I've got now multiple plants also. The PM ended up leaching onto a few AVs, but it's all looking clear now. They didn't have it before these guys from Rob's so I guess I'm done with him for a while.

    When you get ready for more streps-check Gary's out. His were flawless when I got them yesterday. A little pricier (only the really fancy ones-the others are actually less than Rob's), but much larger.

    Thanks for letting me know about Rob's. That's just too bad.

    Best,
    Judy

  • dbarron
    9 years ago

    I'm sure glad I ebay'd vs Robs (lol). I did think about ordering from Gary, but my shelf runneth over.

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yes, I think it wise of you. From now if I want a Rob's variety, I'll stick to Ebay!

  • treehugger101
    9 years ago

    Judy, I wound up cutting off the powdery mildew from Rob's two plants, disinfecting the hard surfaces, isolating the plants somewhat - I only have one rack of lights- and using Immunox. Now 5 of my others streps have powdery mildew. I am going crazy. What should I do? By the way the Immunox did nothing.

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi Terri,
    What strength were you using? Did your leaves get marked up? From what I've read, the tissue infected with the PM will die, leaving brown spots. I can actually tell where mine have been sprayed. It also discolored a couple of my variegated semi AVs, though the plants appear fine. I ended up with 12 of them affected (Streps and avs) so don't despair!

    The dosage is 1 fluid oz per gallon of water. Initially I mixed it at half that strength but luckily one of my AV friends got back to me pretty quickly with the correct dosage.

    And though you've got only one light stand, you will probably want to move all the affected plants out of it, clean it again. The spores can travel pretty quickly, particularly where there's good air movement.

    Let me know what strength you used, and we'll go forward from there. We may even need to ask Spectracide how often it can be used.

    Best,
    Judy

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Terri,
    I've started to do some more reading. Merkity may be correct about the milk. Here's one article I've found, though I'm taking it with a grain of salt:
    http://www.420magazine.com/forums/how-grow-marijuana/72170-how-do-i-recognize-control-prevent-powdery-mildew.html

    It seems there are different strains of PM, and who knows what Rob's got where, maybe several different types.

    As Dave said previously, humidity definitely has a play and that's one of my problems.

    One of the leaves of one of my streps seemed to have it even after I sprayed, so I marked it with a permanent marker and resprayed with the Physan 20. So far it hasn't come back. I'm going to give it about five more weeks before I take what is a good leaf and plant it.

    Do you get yourself some Physan 20 if you can. It's good to clean with and far less toxic than the Spectra to you (hope you were wearing gloves!)! :-)

  • User
    9 years ago

    Judy, I just happened to tune into a garden show that I listen to each weekend at the right time. Though I have read many articles using milk, it never seemed to work from my experience.

    The expert said to use sour milk, to strain any chunks it may have and mix it 1 part milk to 3 parts water. Sour milk has some enzymes in it that attacks the fungus in powdery mildew. Maybe worth a try! I will be trying a small batch and give it a shot. It's that time of year I have to watch my plants for it.

    Dave

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I'd really like to know how it works, Dave. Although, I don't know where to get milk that will sour before going bad. The article I posted above may have mentioned using un-pasteurized milk. We can probably get that from some of the goat farmers around here. Maybe that will sour first. I think using lemon has been known to sour milk as well (but I wonder if it will with pasteurized milk).

    Best,
    Judy

  • dbarron
    9 years ago

    Err Judy, souring is what we typically call it when the milk goes 'bad' :0
    Maybe our usage is wrong..but that's what I grew up with.

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yeah, that's what we called it also when I was young. However, it's not actually the same thing. Spoiled/bad milk can contain all kinds of nasty toxins and junk that will hurt you. Soured milk is I believe from acidification. That's why you can take a little lemon juice and cause it to sour. I've seen my mom do this for some recipes when I was little.

  • treehugger101
    9 years ago

    Judy, The physan 20 worked wonders. The plant leaves look gorgeous. I wonder how often to use it?

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi Terri,
    I believe you can use it once a week or so. However, keep in mind-it just controls it, doesn't get into the cells like the Immunox is supposed to. So maybe-once the physan has cleared up the surface, follow up with spraying with the Immunox. That's exactly what I did.

    Best,
    Judy

  • fortyseven_gw
    9 years ago

    Judy,
    If you have not ordered from Lyon's, suggest you try them next time? In many years of ordering, I and colleagues have never had an issue. They stand behind their products and replace any that fail.

    Are streps disease prone?
    (AVs in the house are good for folks with allergies, one reason is no fragrance, not sure about streps.) Joanne

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Hi Joanne,
    I have not had any problems with disease (other than the PM that came from VB) at all. Too let you know how hardy these things are... the first one I got from VB early last spring was growing well, until I put it in a grow tent with a bunch of basil, thyme etc seedlings and a couple baby avs. Those were the only lights we had at the time.

    The heater we had in there-well the thermostat failed and the heat was up to 140 F. It fried everything except...the strep. It had a very tiny hint of green (about double the size of a pin head) left on it. I repotted it, took care of it, and within two months it had grown brand new leaves and begun flowering.

    The only thing that will kill them quickly is over-watering -much more sensitive than AVs in that respect.

    Lyon's has some nice ones, but I'm going to stick with the Polish type for the most part, and they have very few of those.

    If there's something you're looking for in particular, Joanne, please let me know. I've got several babies potted up and will have more in a few weeks. These are not Polish-haven't put leaves for those yet (but will in a couple of weeks), but some of these are quite nice! It's too late (too cold) to ship from here any more but come spring time I should have the Polish as well!

    Best,
    Judy

  • treehugger101
    9 years ago

    Judy, I moved the streps to another room after spraying with the Physan 20. They are HUGE now and not one bit of powdery mildew. I guess the humidity from the kitchen was making the problem worse. I moved my orchids to that spot and they love it. Now everyone is happy.

  • judyj
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Awesome Terri! That's great news! I had to cut back on the humidity as well, and I'm happy to say (knock on wood! :-) ) that I've not had any more problems either! Also would have to say that using the spectracide at the recommended dosage (as given on the AV forum) DID have some consequences to the AV leaves-but only the variegated ones. The places where the PM was on the strep leaves died off (spots). But at least it's gone, yay!

    Joanne,
    It'll be a few more days, sorry for the delay on the pix! :-)

    Best,
    Judy

  • taxonomist3
    9 years ago

    careful with the physan 20, it can turn the plant yellow and cripple it further.

    The only times I've seen my plants decline like this is when the roots were being eaten by fungus gnats. I can always tell when they've invested a plant because they always seem to go after the strep roots and then insides the strep. I've lost a good number of streps this way, however, now at the first sign of decline, I retreat with imidacloprid granules. This seems to work well.

    If you've not noticed any bugs flying around or (if you lift up the plant and examine the soil carefully for worm larva inching around), then I'd consider a different cause.

    Aside from a weakness to fungus gnats, I've noticed streps are fairly resilient to everything else. - just my personal experience.

  • fortyseven_gw
    9 years ago

    Thank you, Judy. I will let you know in spring. You probably read on the AV forum some use Sulfur. You can do a search using the words sulfur or PM.
    From what I have read, PM is a concern with AVs also ordered from VB. It has never been an issue with Lyon 's.
    They are also a big enough company to be able to replace any defective product.
    As for a trade, I have only AVs. Not sure if you want any more AVs.
    Thanks again, joanne

  • User
    9 years ago

    Judy, do you have an update on your plants? Were you able to get control of the powdery mildew? How are the plants with yellowish leaves doing?

    Dave

  • dbarron
    9 years ago

    Dave, it seems Ms Judy has dropped off the face of the earth. I've been emailing her since January and no reply. Maybe her computer crashed or a life crisis.

  • Rosie1949
    8 years ago

    You can also "sour" milk with vinegar. I am sure the internet is full of ways to get milk to the sour stage. Rosie

  • judyj
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Folks,
    Sorry, I've been offline for several months.
    Yes, Dave, I was able to get rid of the PM. I'll post this weekend what I used. Between the info you and someone on the AV forum provided, it worked.

    The only caveat was that the solution DID cause browning of the leaves on the variegated AVs I used it on.

    Now, though I'm not completely starting over, I've got a lot of catching up to do.

    Best,
    Judy


  • judyj
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    What I remembered is that the Physan would dim the PM a bit, but did not get rid of it (It's not supposed to of course). After going 'round with spraying and cutting infected leaves, I got a bit frustrated. I ended up using a pretty mild solution of Spectra Immunox, which did work. Caution though, it's very toxic.
    The yellower leaves turned out to be specific to that particular strep type. Took a while but I found a couple somewhere on Google. Hope this helps someone. Somewhere I've got the ratio for the Spectra. If someone needs it, please just ask and I'll dig it up.

    Best,
    Judy


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