Is this the one you mean? Just now found it. Do you think it is any good?

Here is a link that might be useful: Hardy Gingers

Yes that's it. I will order it this week and take a look at it. Hopefully it will make a good addition to the limited press available on Gingers.

Scott

I just got the copy of the Hardy Ginger book I ordered in the mail. Overall it is a nice contribution to the horticulture of the family. But be careful with some of the names, in my quick scan of the book I saw both Globba pictures are misidentified. I'd be interested to hear what other errors people find.

Now for my tirade. The author has used our discussions on Gardenweb in this book without acknowledging us individually or as a group (he mentions Gardenweb in the back of the book, but doesn't claim it as a source of information). I say this because a few things about Globba could only have originated from me. I'm the one who figured out Globba Golden Dragon was G. colpicola, that the G. andersonii in cultivation is really G. macroclada, and that the plant being called G. cathcartii is really G. racemosa (to name a few examples). And I haven't published any of this in a scientific journal yet, so it had to come from my posts here. I will admit the possibility that Tim or Tom Wood could have passed on similar discussions that I've had with them, but even so he should have said they were sources of information rather than just good hybridizers and nurserymen.

On the one hand I'm happy that he is using the correct names for these in his book. But there is as much or more incorrect information under Globba as well. If he had contacted me I could have straightened out more names and some incorrect information under his discussion of the genus (and for other gingers as well). I'm sure others here would have done the same.

Anyway, its not about some ego thing that I need my name to be in his book. Its just that it is bad form to not cite or acknowledge your sources. Also, I'd bet I'm not the only one here that this has happened to. And if he had bothered to track down some of us during the writing of the book the end result would have been more accurate.

I'm happy he did the book and I'm glad I bought it. I just think a little more effort on his part would have made it better.

-Kyle

i should be getting this book any day now, so will comment on it then.. but on a side note about information sources that you'll appreciate Kyle:

The Genus Zingiber (same book series as the cardamom book) has a section for 'other zingiber species' in the back. I kinda figured they would have referenced me or my site as some of the descriptions were ripped off verbatim. In addition, some species were exclusive to my website and nowhere else in the world. I even referenced a different plant in one of the zingiber descriptions, I was the only one selling either one of these plants so it seems rather hard to believe the info came from anywhere else... especially when the word choice is the same and in the same order :-). for a industry profile book like that, a quick reference to the info source would have been all I'd have asked for.

...next ranter please.

Tim C.

I haven't had a chance to read through it entirely but i'm finding several mistakes, some minor some rather serious. I'll agree that some referenced material is not properly referenced.

In some sections it is evident that many listings were gathered from online catalogs and not much was done to filter that info out. Example: 3 separate listing for variegated Costus speciosus as if they are different cultivars... in reality they are just different names for the same identical plant. Several plants listed as hybrids are not at all, and are just unidentified species.

Kyle: The source for the info you mentioned was dave's site. The author did do a lot of reading on dave's site as evidenced by some listings that are only mentioned there. There is a problem with some of these references, as the info is incorrect, but now they are in print. One of the main ones for me is Kaempferia 'Titan' listed as a banta hybrid and under cultivation by me. I had never seen this plant, only heard about it. I had mentioned during a talk that I had hoped to work with john to release down the road as it did sound like a great hybrid. John and I both laughed about this cause he only has a few plants and wished i had it in production.. me too. :-) Maybe in a couple years that statement will be correct though.

In addition to the globba photo errors there are a couple others, two images of C. sp.aff. sumatrana one labeled correctly, one as c. yunnanensis etc.

I will say its aggravating to see all of the Roscoea photos (most of which are very good images) as it reminds me that we can't grow them in the southern heat. Awesome looking plants though. Those in PNW and east coast with milder summers should be trying these plants out. I'm trying some Cautleya out here this year from rhizomes. seeds failed for me, but maybe i can get these guys to make it through the summers.

Tim Chapman

Does he even mention Dave in the book? In some ways I feel a little better if Dave's website was where he got my information (he still could have acknowledged it though!). I see his website buried in the bibliography section with the comment that is was accessed Feb. 1, 2003.

I guess what bugs me is it would have been easy for him to find and contact people like me, Dave, and Tim, but he appears not to have done so. I feel the book is a good contribution to ginger horticulture, it just bothers me that it could have so easily been made better. Anyway, it seems obvious that the book was written by someone without any previous ginger experience who was assigned to do a book on gingers.

Maybe some of us will just have to get together do our own book someday!

-Kyle

I hesitate to enter a serious discussion like this , but being a newcommer to gingers and hardly an expert, I wonder if the term "hardy" applies to any gingers planted in areas colder than zone 6 or 7. If so, I'd be interested in the book just as means of finding some that could winter out in zone 5-6 with perhaps a good heavy winter mulch. I don't think the term "hardy" used in connection with most warm temperate to sub-tropical plants really applies to our traditional sense of the term "hardy" unless were talking about cold hardy temperate plants. I still think in terms of hardy as meaning the plant roots can withstand freezing in the winter, and that usually those frost free ground areas only entend as far as zone 6 sometimes?? I like to learn as much as possible about all types of plants, but my budget being what it is , I also like practical applications in the books , so I can also grow the plants convered in the book.

The book is written by a British author who is supposedly trying to make the book generally applicable to temperate regions, but it is obvious he is really only familiar with the British climate. It is most obvious in his discussion of Roscoea. They grow fantastic in the UK and are probably the most cold hardy gingers of all. He can't understand why North Americans do not grown them much. The answer would be that, except for the Pacific Northwest, the summers are too hot (or the winters too cold to grow any ginger outside) for them to survive.

I understand your desire for a book on growing gingers in temperate areas. Unfortunately there really aren't any now outside of this book. The book may be of use to you, but you could get as much or more information from checking this group, going to Tim's website (http://www.gingerwoodnursery.com), and Dave's website (http://www.gingersrus.com/).

By the way, I think growing gingers most anywhere outside of the tropics and subtropics (i.e. in N. America anywhere north of south Florida counts) counts as hardy. This is because the vast majority of gingers are tropical plants. Even the deep south is pushing the cold tolerance limits on many species. For example, absolute coldest night of the year in Bangkok, Thailand (Thailand is one of the most diverse countries for gingers) will be around 60-65 degrees F. And if you get into Malaysia and Indonesia it won't ever even get that cold. I think your concern about extremely hardy gingers could be covered in any book on ginger cultivation by giving minimum temps and climate zones after each species.

I think sometmes that most Americans , not having lived in the "true" tropics , with the exception of Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and other U.S. protectorates, with the exception of Key West , which has a truly "tropical climate".can appreciate how sensitive some of those tropicals are to "cool" and not even cold temperatures, and I think some recent reading on Heliconias brought that to light since they won't tollerate soil temperatures of much below 60 degrees at night and though that may not kill them, the tops can die back. or their metabolism won't work right at those temperatures and the leaves turn almost "white". I'd suspect many of the gingers must have the "warm" soil even when the air temperatures may drop into the sixties at night, and not getting the constant warmth they may be hard to flower. I'm very surprised to hear from relatives and other Californians that there are many gingers grown there now, though I don't remember them from when I'ved there twenty years ago. California can go through considerabel chilly wet weather sometimes for weeks in the winter, with lows dropping into the thirties, and that to me seemed beyond the adaptability of most "tropical" gingers. Even soil temperatures will get quite chilly after weeks of 50 and 60 degree temperatures.

One thing to note is that the gingers most common in the trade are, in general, from the upper edge of the tropics and into the subtropics (i.e. southern China and the foothills of the Himalayas). The further south you go in Asia the less species you will see in the trade. Something as common and popular as Etlingera is rarely grown outside in the US because it just won't tolerate cold. Even supposedly cold hardy genera have many species that aren't so tolerant, take Hedychium longicornutum for example. Beautiful plant, common in southern Thailand and Malaysia, and not at all happy with the winters its more northerly relatives can handle.

There are approximately 1500 species of gingers in the world. Be happy for the minority that can tolerate the miserable winter conditions we consider normal!

-Kyle

Unfortunately, much of the content of this book has been taken off the web; mainly from Dave Skinner's website. He mentions a number of hybrids that are not available and it is obvious that at least a third of the variteties that he mentions he has never seen. Therefore, he is in no position to state that they are hardy, particularly when he mentions an Amomum that wouldn't survive outside of Zone 10. He also mentions some Chinese Hedychiums that, having been to most Chinese botanic gardens, I beleive are not under cultivation anywhere.

Hi Tom,

Haven't heard from you in a while. Anyway, Tim and I had been considering writing a letter to the Royal Horticultural Society (they published it) about our disappointment with the book and to point out some of the numerous errors. Maybe we should get serious and write that letter. Your input on this would be great and the three of us could cosign the letter. If you are interested email me (you can do this through the forum) and we can put something together.

Mark Newman was also quite surprised by the book as he said the author had not contacted him or RBG Edinburgh about it. Pretty sad considering that they probably have the best Roscoea collection in the world.

Kyle