Z as in Zantedeschia? No. What color is it?

Z as in zingiber.

I assume that the color will be red. It supposedly blooms from the ground (like shampoo ginger) and from the tips of the stems too. Mine has not bloomed for me, I hope it will next summer. The sites on the net say hardy to zone 8 but most of them are very conservative. I was hoping that someone in zone 7 had tried this one out doors. I grow shampoo ginger out in my garden and was hoping that I could grow this one too.

Zantedeschia?? yikes, wrong forum for those aroid things.

Zingiber zerumbet 'Twice as Nice' is my introduction. It was distributed (against my will) through a certain TC lab that was supposed to be growing it exclusively for me. So, I don't know for sure who all has it and has been selling it (or what they say about it) but I can say that anyone saying Zone 7 hardiness is probably guessing and not saying so from experience.

It may very well be that hardy, but it has only been available for a very short time so most people are experimenting with it for the first time this year, though the first plants went out last season. I've had it in zone 8 for a few years, and know of others in zone 8 and 9 that have overwintered it, but no info from zone 7 yet (good or bad). The rhizomes are smaller so that may have a negative effect vs the normal species that you grow. It spreads well, so leave a piece in the ground next year and let us know how it does!

With new introductions like this, it usually takes several years to get good feedback from zone 7.

Tim Chapman

Tim, can they do that? Is that legal?

I knew that you had introduced the Suelee Rainbow but I don't remember reading that you introduced this one. I bought this one on ebay, I should have checked your web site first.

I am actually zone 7b (not much difference). I can grow some things that are hardy in zone 8 (bulbs and such). The rhizome was very small and pitiful, I worried about it surving. It finally started puting up shoots and looks great. I will grow it in the greenhouse this winter and then set some out in the garden in the spring, I will let you know if it survives.

I won't go into it too deep on that situation, but I can honestly say this company is not paying royalties to me and a few other people that are responsible for most of their new introductions. We WERE working with them, but I certainly never will again. The concept was simple enough, I get new material propagated exclusively for a couple of years then they could sell it abroad while I get a very small royalty. Legally the royalities are only collected by them, but the forwarding of them to the rightful owners has been ignored. Unless there is a patent, they can of course buy these plants on the market with no obligation of royalties. It (to me at least) makes more sense to work with breeders and collectors to get the best plants as soon as possible and be geared up and ready to go when you have the greenlight. That way you'd always have the access to the new and best material and the breeder/collector has a solid year or two to recoup their investment with no competition. It now takes me a bit longer to get new stuff going in numbers, but its happening. Unfortunately TC labs are notorious for screwing people over not just in the US, but everyone I've talked to in the trade has had the same problems with different labs in different countries etc.

Sulee Rainbow is an introduction of mine (not my hybrid though). I'm working with that breeder on more cool stuff. Sulee Sunrise and Sulee Sunset are in the works. Most of the introductions over the last few years were from just a handful of people. The last two of mine to go through the TC route were 'Twice as Nice' and Kaempferia rotunda 'Silver Diamonds' (haven't received a penny for either of those). I did get a whopping check of $18.00 for Globba pendula 'Silver Comet.' I can't say who you can trust for sure, but I certainly can tell you who you can't! lesson learned. Their loss. Silver Comet and Twice as Nice will always be two of my best introductions, but certainly not the last great intro.s to say the least. On a tangent, I do promise to stop using "Silver" in plant names after 'Silver Elegance.'

On a bright note though, there is always tons of new stuff in the works (by me and others). It always amazes me just how much undiscovered material there is, let alone hybrids and other breeding projects.

Tim Chapman

Sorry, I do actually know that Zantedeschia is an ariod.
I thought I was on the aroid forum. Been up too long.

Tim that is a scary thought. The buyer (like me) is completely unaware of who is being cheated and who is not. We can't possibly know where the plants came from. Even the wholesaler would be unaware of who was being cheated and who is not.

If you had a patent pending would they have been able to get away with this? Since there are obviously many of you that have been taken advantage of is there someone or somewhere that you could file a complaint with, what about a breach of contract?

The end consumer isn't supposed to be aware or concerned about such things. It shouldn't even cross someone's mind that these kind of problems exist.

The problem with pursuing anything legal is that the costs to do so far outweighs the money owed. A friend of mine did have a patent on their material, and they are the only ones that I know that did get paid... eventually. The royalty administration company wanted their $ so they made sure their client was paid up so they could get paid. Patents are expensive and of course really can't be had for anything other than hybrids or some unique mutation. 'Twice as Nice' would qualify as it is a unique plant that appeared once in the wild and is no more. One would have to plan on selling thousands and thousands of something to make it worth getting a patent, as well as investing in the marketing etc. For me it just isn't a practical idea right now. Down the road you'll see more gingers patented, but the market really isn't there yet for most types.

The people that were using TC for introductions obviously are changing their strategies. It doesn't really affect much for me (since the money never was there anyway). I have to put more of an investment of time and money to get stuff done elsewhere. The people that depend on TC for material and the customers are affected the most. New material is not coming out as fast as it use to, and the new stuff will come from a much smaller group of retailers than before. The average gardener that only buys locally and isn't on-line looking for the latest and greatest isn't going to be exposed to new gingers until years after they normally would have been. The retailers that aren't pursuing new material themselves are also going to suffer, only having access to the same varities that everybody else has had for some time now. New material is the life blood of most people in the nursery business.

I'm not happy about it all obviously, but for me its just a setback in the grand scheme of things. I can't believe it was worth it for them to lose their sources, but who knows.

Tim Chapman

For what it's worth, we all owe Tim for his good work in seeking out and introducting new gingers for us to enjoy. I know both the tissue culture lab and the eBay seller in this case, and the eBay seller is totally innocent. She simply purchased a couple of trays of tissue culture starts from the company that cheated Tim out of his royalties - not knowing where they came from. What amazes me is that the TC company did not even bother to rename the plant to hide the source. Pretty blatant.

Well, I'm sure to the TC companies it seems worth it but only for the short haul, it can't be worth it in the long run.

For people like me that are obsessed with plants (I only want them all) the TC companies were a blessing. I have a family to help support and can't find the time or money to trek thru the jungels to acquire the plants that I want. Not to mention the fact that I would be the one person that would be hauled off the prison for stealing/accidently acquiring the forbidden plants, like the worsleya (blue amaryllis).

Too bad to hear about your tissue culture problems. Sounds similar to the story of Mark and his Globbas. Actually I think he got screwed over even with a patent! I'd be willing to bet what they did was illegal because you had a contract with them and I don't think they are allowed to subvert it even if they technically buy one on the open market. Unfortunately the legal battle would cost far more than you would have ever gotten in royalities. I think that is what they count on.

My guess is that they probably only pull this on small customers. If they tried it on someone big like Burpee or Monrovia (its just an example, I'm sure they TC in house) they'd be hauled into court in a minute. Its just a way for them to make money off the little guys while presumably doing more legitimate business with the bigger players.

-Kyle

Mark used the same company. He is the one I was referring to with the patent, that (from what i understand) finally got some payments. The issue of reculturing something is about to happen from what i understand. Not one of mine, but another plant that they were supposed to keep exclusive and didn't. It was pulled, and from what I have heard they are now going to produce it openly now. I don't know what the agreement was on that plant, but its still a slap in the face to the person that put it in. In my earlier post I was actually referring to them just buying plants and TCing them, not circumventing previous contracts (dealing with new material). There are no restrictions for nonprotected plants. This would of course involve some thought as to what would make a good product and the extra work of ordering the plant etc .. all without the fun of ripping somebody off.

Tim Chapman

hi
just wondering what it costs to get a tissue culture done for your rhizome, do you have to get a minimum number or can you get a few or a few hundred?
thanks...