Most of the posters here are newby's to recycle/reuse/do without. They are following a trend. When this trend smooths out some will continue their wasteful ways, some will actually live a somewhat improved life. This is the way most people approach a hot item, be the hot item a microwave or composting. They want to discuss their use for the hot item with others of their kind. As far as a tree I prefer what the young girl does with the 40 foot fir that is in her front yard. She climbs it all of the way to the top and sits reading until she needs to come down. I like the 2x4 but don't want them covered.

Hey dirtdigger I think you need to take a look down at my postings below. I posted them several weeks back, but you should take a peak at them.

Unfortunately, some of the trendiness of being green (or having a simple lifestyle) is turned into convincing you to buy new things because they are green.

However, also because being green is trendy, it makes it easier to be green.

Several years ago, I had maybe 3-5 nylon cloth grocery bags. They folded up small in my car, but I usually would forget them. Or I'd use them and never put them back in the car.

Instead, I'd often tell cashiers, "I don't need a bag". A good number of them would take my items out of the bag and put the bag in the trash.

Now there are bags near the checkout lane. I'm reminded to go run out to the car to get my bag. If I forget my bag I often buy one, and give it away to someone else later. Or else I juggle 5 items in my hands while carrying them out. Prominently displaying the receipt.

For a long time, I've wanted a small hatchback. I hate putting bulky stuff into a trunk and I've moved a bit of stuff in my car upon occasion. My goal was to carry my bicycle in my car without a big hassle. So I was thrilled with the new line of fuel efficient hatchbacks. Bought a Honda Fit in fall of '07 when my previous car died.

Paper products now get labeled with percentage of post-consumer content recycling.

Now that I'm older, have more money, and am used to more creature comforts, I probably have a greater environmental footprint.

There's some kind of balance. I moved closer to work, partially for environmental and conveneience reasons. I realised too late that I am at the bottom of a steep hill and can't really bike to work. However, I'm shocked that the bus route doesn't go by my apartment.

I started balcony vegetable gardening in an attempt to help out with the global food crisis. While it ended up being a lot of fun, I don't think it is a cost effective and reduced impact effort.

I don't know. I think it will be easier later. And/or we will have less choice.

Alice

I am not a green whacko or anything, but I think that people have gotten wasteful. I try to recycle my waste, and grow a substantial garden.
I don't, however, see how using chemicals/synthetic fertilizer in moderation is at all damaging to the earth or the body.

Every human is going to consume, and dispose. Considering how long we've been around, it's only been in the very recent past we got smart enough to know resources aren't endless. Well, some of us have, anyway.

No, I don't live in a cave. But I live in a two hundred year old house, made from the earth it sits on, so it's about as close as you can come to a cave, I guess. Considering it's housed nine generations and still cranking, it's a pretty safe bet to say recycling it instead of tearing it down and building a new one every twenty years has saved more than a few trees.

I started living 'green' a good many years ago not because I consciously set out to do it, but because I was so danged poor I had to do it. When I wasn't so poor anymore, I got caught up in the rat race too...for a short while......until I got poor again. Then I appreciate the fact that I can live quite happily without mountains of plastic, paper, new doo dads......and quite well, too. That's when I realised that self sufficiency is empowering. And when somebody's life is filled with interesting things to do and enough work to keep busy, then they don't NEED a lot of 'things'. And if they take care of the things they have, that eventually they'll have everything they need anyway.

A lot of the hype of the green movement is to sell products and make money. There will be people who get caught up in the experience only to tire of it and give up. Lifestyle changes don't happen overnight. And it's going to take awhile before whole communities and countries get the hang of it. But, change will happen out of necessity when we start drowning in our own garbage and those of us who adapt a little at a time are not only buying time for people like you, when the you know what hits the fan and it starting to already, those of us who have made those changes already will have a lot easier row to hoe.

Yes I do know one person who lives in a cave, and he lives there because its different and he can afford it! but most of us have moved out of our caves and primative ways had have learnt to think for ourselves, which includes realising that the world is small and there are alot of us, and in order to rub along and survive maybe just maybe it isn't too difficult to take a bag into the supermarket for our groceries, doesn't mean we don't have a gas guzzeling 3.6 litre car but if we all do a bit, it all mounts up, I think there are in excess of 300 million people in the USA if they all use one less plasic bag in the supermarket in a year! thats alot of plastic, so imagine they a only use 20 each in a year because they forgot their reusable bag? small changes, and imagine you have to pay 10c a bag for plastic + tax would you stick to you non green ideals when you have 10 of them, of course not, and you think I am wrong whats $1 + tax, it works in other countries, I have my handy reusable bags they don't split or brake and are convenient to tote about. its not easy being green, but put it this way, I walked to the local supermarket the other day and a neighbour who didn't realise this is my daily routine clocked me 1/2 mile away from it, by the time she had turned round, gone through traffic lights found a space and got to the shop I was also walking in! and that's with twin 4 year olds who are apt to stop and look at every leaf, ant and piece of trash on the way! she was so insistant she wait to take me home, I used the only excuse I could think of, which she couldn't argue, "I'm British we walk" which is not strictly speaking true, but we walk alot more for everyday stuff, and we have sidewalk everywhere, I am lucky in the US I can make it the 1.7 miles to my local shopping area with 2 blips of businesses who do not have sidewalk, and whichever child is in the stroller has to get out and walk, because I cann't manage it.
I miss passing people in the street and saying hello, athough I have noticed car drivers in the main wave, smile and give way to me and me and my boys, but its just not the same.

dirtdigger, you're right, I'm only willing to be mildly inconvenienced in order to be green. I don't know if that makes me a hypocrite, though-- I don't preach, claim to be an environmentalist, or judge other people for their green/ non green choices-- they're making the same cost/benefit analyses I am, and their conclusions/ annoyance thresholds might be different. I am here to find creative ways to be green that won't inconvenience me, or will make my life easier (If I can compost my kitchen scraps, I won't have to buy as much fertilizer. If I can repurpose something, I can save money from whatever I'd otherwise buy. Also, I get a sense of self-satisfaction about being macgyver-ish) I think the problem, and what's frustrating you, is people who think that everyone should come to the same conclusions about everything, and who try to make other people feel guilty. Those people are obnoxious!! They are probably obnoxious even when they're not harping on about their 12-part recycling systems. Successfully going green is about finding ways to help the environment that make your life BETTER.

:-D

I try to be as green as is practical, which is a significant improvement over the ways I was brought up with. I don't feel bad about trying to save materials/money, recycle, find alternate uses for items that are otherwise trash, garden organically, ride my bike more, or any other "green" type of activity I partake in. The fact that I choose to be conscious about what I consume and reduce my ecological impact does not make me a hippocrate at all.

As for your tree criticism, there's a big difference between cutting down a tree for firewood and clear-cutting acres and acres to export to Japan imo. Cutting down a tree in the middle of the forest is really no big deal if you do it right, since usually there's saplings that will get more light and grow to fill the spot, and the ecological balance of the forest is still intact.

Really, why would anyone be against reducing waste? If someone develops methods to do things we do now but with a lesser environmental impact, what reason is there for objection? If someone alters their everyday lifestyle to reduce their waste, then what's wrong with that? Do you think it would be more "beautiful" if I just didn't bother with composting because some people would use the word "green" to describe it and instead let it be waste in a landfill? Would it be more beautiful for me to use pesticides and synthetic fertilizers than having a perfectly green organic lawn without having to purchase those things?

I don't see the need for your bitterness about "going green", since it has no negative affects on you and at the least attempts to do some good.

I don't live in a cave. I'm a hunter - sometimes a gatherer, and eat what I take. I live comfortably, and I think, frugally. I don't make any big deal about how green I am, and I don't like anyone telling me how green I should be. I don't pass judgments on those that jumped on the 'green bandwagon' that are any harsher than the ones I might have passed on those who were all wearing cowboy boots & hats when "Midnight Cowboy" was popular - just sort of rolled my eyes & said, "Whatever".

Getting back to to the cave thing. I think it not unusual for trolls to live in caves, and it's a good thing to be able to recognize a troll when there is one in our midst because they're often in disguise. For a lesson on how to tell when there is a troll among us, simply reread this thread's original post & you'll know well what to watch for.

Al

What a nit! Poor thing doesn't know that the green people live on Mars and this forum isn't featured there! But I think all the green people on Mars do live in caves---or tunnels maybe?

Keep in mind, this is coming from a conservative who believes in hunting and uses a computer that runs on good ol-fashioned electricity, but who has also lived in a tepee, on a floor of a shed, and in several other interesting conditions while doing relief work. I visit this forum because "green" generally means "frugal". Not in all cases, but I believe in using what is around you as many times as you can, in order to save money. ALSO, I'm a country girl & love nature, so I intend on helping to conserve it as much as possible.

In other words, there are all kinds...

I don't live in a cave; I live in a house made of tires.

It's kind of weird. It's totally hippy. And I feel like it might be one more thing I can do to change my impact. Like many people here have said, it isn't about an image. It's about discovering the things that are important to you and adapting them in your life.

It's true that a lot of people throw out what they have to buy green stuff. But at least in this case... it's not like someone else could put any of these tires on a different car.

Here is a link that might be useful: shots of our tire house

I laughed out loud at the first post. Love it. Yeah, I am a little bit worn from the current trend. It has gotten old real fast. The worst part is that they have to document everything on youtube which is hypocritical in itself but whatever.

What's green about living as a hunter or gatherer? If every person on the planet tried to live as a hunter, we'd pretty quickly wipe nearly every mammal. There simply aren't enough deer or buffalo or rabbits.

This illustrates a common misconception. Living a "natural" life, living the way your grandparents did, and minimizing the harm you do to the planet are three very different things. There are a lot of things we did in the past when there were fewer of us that we can't do now when there are seven billion of us.

Also, my favorite biblical line is "It is better to light a single candle then to live in darkness". I *HATE* "all or nothing" morality. Would you say that if I can't manage to love my neighbor as myself I might as well run around killing and eating preschoolers? Of course not.