The membrane and seeds contain higher levels of pectin so adding those in a bouquet garni bag during cooking improves the odds of setting.

The pith is bitter, so recipes generally recommend removing as much as possible. However, some do prefer a bitter marmalade and have no objection.

Again, pre-cooking the peel reduces bitterness. However, that is more of an issue with some varieties of oranges than others so it's up to you whether you do that or not.

You can adjust the size of the pieces of peel depending upon whether you want a subtle or pronounced peel flavor. If you zest the peel it tends to "disappear" into the mixture. Cutting larger shreds or squares or slicing will result in a more distinct appearance and bite. I have seen some recipes that call for both as a balance.

The last method for mandarins sounds fine but the mixture will probably be somewhat less clear and depending upon how long you pulse may introduce some air. You could also slice them per the second method.

Keep in mind traditional marmalades can take as long as six weeks to set (shelf time) so don't be discouraged if you reach the appropriate temp and bottle the preserve but still have syrup after a day or two.

Carol

I noticed that the marmalade that I made last night didn't seem as thick when I used the plate test as jams generally do - the drop spread thinner on the cold plate. I bottled it at 220 degrees anyway because it had turned fairly dark and the way it bubbled in the pot changed.

This morning it has a good set. I hope that it doesn't get too much stiffer on the shelf because it is already about perfect. It has very little bitterness.

I used 3 smallish lemons, 3 limes (the ones from our tree are much larger than store limes and they are quite ripe - yellow rather than green peel), about 5 mandarins and the rest navels for about 7 pounds of fruit. I used the whole skin of the mandarins because with the loose skin I couldn't peel the zest off. And I put in a big bag of the zest, membrane and pits in - more than 2 cups worth so apparently there was plenty of pectin.

I removed the zest with a vegetable peeler and then did a thin julienne cut - it produced a nice texture of peel in the marmalade.

I may try to do a batch with just mandarins plus a couple of limes or lemons using the whole skins of the mandarins to see how that comes out.

Not sure if I'll pulse the fruit in the food processor or slice - the recipe that suggested the food processor said to pulse 5 times so it was just going for breaking the fruit up a bit and probably wouldn't introduce a lot of air. The pictures in that blog don't look cloudy.

I may need to slice anyway in order to de-seed. She said her satsumas have a couple of seeds per fruit. Our mandarins have a lot more seeds, often one or two per section.

Here is a link that might be useful: Satsuma marmalade recipe

Another question - looking at the satsuma recipe that I linked to - it seems to have a huge amount of sugar: almost 4 pounds of sugar for 2 pounds of satsumas. (I hadn't noticed that before because I was looking at recipes comparing techniques and not paying much attention to the differences in proportions.)

In the orange marmalade I made yesterday, I used about the proportions in the NCHFP no-pectin recipe (though a different mix of citrus) - though that recipe doesn't list fruit weights, I expect that 1 grapefruit plus 4 medium oranges comes to around 3-4 pounds and they used 3 cups of sugar (around 1.5 pounds).

The result seems nicely sweet to me. The satsuma recipe has 4 times the sugar which sounds sickly sweet. I'd probably do something closer to the NCHFP ratio. Do I need some extra sugar to balance the extra pith from the mandarins? I won't be cutting it away, but being thin skinned they don't have that much to begin with.

Here is a link that might be useful: NCHFP marmalade

It isn't a matter of balancing the pith (of which Mandarins have little) but achieving a proper ratio of sugar +acid +pectin to achieve a set. If the sugar is reduced too much then the pectin bonds won't form.

However, having said that, 4 pounds of sugar to 2 pounds of satsumas is incredibly high (unimaginable to me) and I even wonder if it's an error in posting.

Traditionally the sugar to fruit ratio (by weight) is somewhere around 1:1. With a no-commercial-pectin recipe you can fiddle a bit but if you cut the sugar too much below that ratio you risk ending up with marmalade syrup.

At the set point the mixture is roughly 67% sugar. If the sugar is cut too far then the only way to achieve a set is by long-cooking and essentially evaporating out moisture to thicken. But that isn't really a jell just viscous.

In the case of the Satsuma recipe I would never go higher than 1:1. If the fruit is dead-ripe it will naturally have a higher sugar level and you can reduce further and still achieve a good set. However, dead-ripe fruit is lower in natural pectin so old-timers would compensate by making citrus pectin to amend the recipe or by adding seeds and membrane and/or by using 25% underripe fruit, which is naturally higher in pectin.

You can see there is a science as well as an art to preserving.

You can reduce your cooking time and achieve a fresher result in the marmalade by warming the sugar in a shallow pan in the oven, using a low temp. The pre-warmed sugar obviously speeds things up.

Carol

I've made 5 different Ball recipes since Thanksgiving, and instead of supreming the citrus and tossing the membranes, I processed them in a food processor until they were fine and then cooked them down with everything else. The jars look great. The navels had only a couple of seeds per fruit, but I found actual sour oranges in Atlanta and made the Seville marmalade with them. I tried to pick out the seeds, but there were so many that I ended up just juicing them with the hand press juicer instead. I had already cut the zest off, and it calls for a couple other oranges, so I had pulp from those. That's the best marmalade ever! Nice sourness.

But I tried the Ginger Pear marmalade and doubled the recipe. Even after reaching 220F, it didn't gel. A week later, it still hasn't. I'm fine with having gingered pear syrup. But I'll let it set and see what happens. That uses lime zest cooked separately and later combined with the pears, ginger and sugar. Not sure there is enough pectin there to gel, but I'm in no hurry.

Hi Reading lady, by "never go higher than 1:1" do you mean that you wouldn't reduce the sugar below 1 pound per 1 pound of fruit? I went lower than that for the batch with mostly navels and it gelled fine, but it had a big bag of membrane, seeds and pith in it.

For the mandarins, I would include a sachet of the seeds in cheesecloth and the membrane (those tiny segments are way too painstaking to section and the membranes are thin. I'd probably put in a lime or two too - we already have enough frozen lime juice and they will go to waste if I don't use them. -and the pith from those could go in the sachet. But our limes are very ripe - I don't know if the pectin in the pith goes down much when that happens.

I might even try a small batch of lime marmalade. The limes were the easiest of our citrus to work with too - the zest peels easily, the sections are a nice size and regular and there are no seeds to fuss with getting out.

The mix of science and art is part of why I like cooking - in addition to getting to eat the experiment results :)

Thanks for you advice both here and on posts where I lurk.

Hi Chris, thanks for your posting your experience. If I run out of patience on picking seeds out, I could juice some of the mandarins. Ginger Pear marmalade sounds really good - and using limes is a bonus. Please post or link to the recipe.

The ginger pear marmalade is in the Ball Complete book.

Also on their website...

http://www.freshpreserving.com/recipe.aspx?r=115

Here is a link that might be useful: Ginger Pear Marmalade

This post was edited by chrisb_sc_z7 on Fri, Jan 3, 14 at 14:31

I didn't say you couldn't go below 1:1 (and certainly it has been done with success) but it really depends on many factors, including the degree of ripeness of the fruit, its natural pectin level, the acidity, etc.

All I'm saying is as you reduce the sugar the risk of NOT setting increases. You might want to test the pectin level of your juice and that will give you an idea of how confidently you can fiddle with the ratio.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Pectin and Jelling Tests

Thanks for the explanations Reading Lady.. I decided to try both methods. I've made 3 batches of marmalade now and the ginger pear lime preserves.

One with a mix of naval oranges (that was the majority of the mix), mandarins, lemon and lime - the mandarins were peeled and the full peel used because with thin loose skins I wasn't able to zest them. That is quite good.

One with mandarins that was all whole peel - that is fine but my least favorite (as of initial tasting - I wonder my opinion of it will change as it matures). The whole peel makes it more bitter but not so bitter as to be unpalatable. I just don't like the courser texture of the whole peel as much. I don't think I'll bother with using the mandarins for marmalade in the future - they are so much more fussy to work with and I prefer the results with the other citrus. If I did, I'd juice them rather than using full pulp because they have so many seeds - it's too much work seeding them.

One with just limes, zest and pulp (a cheese cloth satchet of some pith and membranes in the mix while cooking to add pectin). That is wonderful. The zest is delicate giving the result some texture. The lime flavor pure, tart and clean. I'd definitely make that one again. The limes were also the easiest to prepare - they zest pretty easily and the segments are pretty uniform and good sized so simpler to supreme and there are no seeds to remove.

I also made a batch of ginger, pear, lime preserves - a Ball recipe mentioned on my thread on the harvest forum. It was a small batch recipe that made 2 and a half pints and its so very good. It's even better than the plain lime. I need to make more of that - perhaps a double batch. Thanks for the pointer to that recipe Chris.

cloud_swift, what proportions/method did you use for the lime marmalade and the orange/lime/lemon mix? I have many pounds of persian limes that I need to can this weekend...

Thanks!