Eeewwww.....yuck! Sounds like a huge mess, Dave.
That's kind of why I want a sturdy shelf!! Usually it's just bread dough rising and not overnight, but it's often balanced precariously somewhere.

Zabby, I can't remember the brand on my stove. I'll look tonight and try to take a photo too.

Hey, anybody know why we don't have a Conversations board like there is on the cooking forum??? We could take these OT discussions there!

Deanna

Dave writes: > I started doing this wood stove thing a few years ago with Kefir, which, theoretically, does not require the warmth of yogurt. For that matter, there is Kefir, and then there is other Kefir.

So true! Dom's Kefir In-Site IBS, Crohn's Disease, lactose intolerant? Health nut? I have 2 pints of organic diced onions and 1 pint of onion/hot peppers mixed going now that I inoculated with the live grains to make a relish that I intend to add to every burrito that I make for freezing or a spoonful to any fresh salad I make. My cultures are kept in 45° fridge, 30s° fridge and at room temps. The warmer temps are, the faster things work.

I started with comercially packaged dried Kefir powder & now use live grains originally from Russia sent to me by a local devotee. I've mailed to friends in small pill bottles with 100% sucess. Just add a few large grains to some milk and mail. Instant starter kit that is much better than dehydrated powder.

jt

All right, all right ... I've been reading this thread and have to chime in now.

I agree with some of the others that have said "sheesh, the things this forum gets me into!" I think I am going to have to try yogurt also.

I have seen "yogurt makers" in kitchen stores - from reading all these posts, am I to assume that a yogurt maker is simply a chamber to keep the yogurt at a specific temperature? And maybe a few clean jars? (I put a link to one below) Sheesh, I thought it was something technical!!

I also want to know, if we are going to start eating our homemade yogurt (greek style or otherwise) with honey drizzled on top, do I need to order my honeybees now for spring delivery? Because I assume all forum members will be making/harvesting their own honey soon :)

Seriously, I'm glad this thread came up because I really do want to try yogurt and you all make it sound quite doable.

Ann

Forgot the link to the yogurt maker ....

Here is a link that might be useful: yogurt machine

I've got the honey bees........I just need to find some kid with a long skinny arm to reach down into the tree and get me some honey!!! LOL

I actually used to buy quarts of honey ($7) from a guy across the road from us. He hasn't had his sign up though for the last couple of years so maybe he got rid of his hives.
I still maintain it really helped with my DH's allergies to grass pollen and poison oak.

Deanna
(who wasn't planning to make yogurt either....see apple thread).

Prairie - I had to laugh out loud about ordering the honey bees. Ain't that the truth :-)

I have a yogurt machine. Got it as a gift many years ago and I guess I forgot about it when I moved. Mine holds 8 little cups....total of 2 quarts of yogurt. It has a little timer on it that turns it off after a set amount of time...and sets off a little beeper to let you know it's time to move it to the fridge. It's nice for individual servings that you can quickly pull out of the fridge. It's pretty foolproof....but it's nothing overly technical....or specifically needed. I actually have once again been enjoying yogurt made from it after this thread got me motivated.

I was asking about the rubber mat above, because I was thinking it would also be nice to make quart size quantities for cooking, freezing, etc. Scraping the yogurt out of the smaller jars when you need a larger quantity is a pita.

Oh prairie, you really needn't spend any money on a yogurt maker. Unless you put your bowl of milk and yogurt starter out in the snow or in your fridge, it will turn into yogurt without fussing with specific temps. People from cultures where yogurt is a staple food have been making it for thousands of years without benefit of electric gadgets. Most people keep their homes warm enough for the yogurt cultures to live, it's just that warmer temps speed up the process. An oven with a pilot light, a table next to the heater grate, close to a lamp, a south windowsill on a sunny day...just somewhere warm.

Gosh, we've got gadgets for everything available to us now, don't we? Some really are useful...I love my crock pot for certain things, my hand held emulsifier wand, my food processor. But then there are the things I've been given and never use...the omelet maker (whats wrong with a frypan?), the margarita machine (my blender is easier to use and clean), the hamburger press (I have hands). :Drofl

Ann, LOL about the honeybees!

I also like my yogurt with granola. Now, I've been making my own granola since college 20 years ago, when I was a member of a student co-op (where I learned all the really USEFUL stuff, like granola making, bread baking, food safety basics, teamwork, running a meeting, dealing with difficult people, etc. --- ask me how often I use the knowledge I got from my actual degree....).

But that's not nearly hard-core enough for this forum. It's time to plant my own oats! Now where did I put that seed catalogue.... ;-)

Z

Catalogue... Don't you mean MANY catalogs? Here, I must have received about 40 in the last 3 weeks.

Ken,
I meant my oat seed catalogue, of course.

I found it filed between the flax catalogue and the specialty ostrich chick breeder's listings. ;-)

Zabby

Hmmm, sounds like a real specialty... Here, we have Agway and they carry all kinds of grains for feed and seed. I like going there when the baby chicks and ducklings are in.

Wheeee - So I had to try it. Because I had some sour dough bread starter in the fridge - but no yogurt for starter - thought I'd work a little late in the lab.

My only milk was some canned stuff - so added a can of water - brought the mix to a boil - cooled, added a tsp of my sour dough starter, then poured into my handy-dandy commercial 5 cup automatic electric yogurt maker.

So - this a.m. the finished product - not yogurt but curds and whey! What to do? I drained it in cheesecloth, pressing out the whey - tasted and it was really passable sour cream.

So - OK - why did my sour dough starter make curds and whey instead of yogurt. Did I not boil the milk long enough? Was the canned milk to blame?

Could I make a passable cheese from this? It actually tasted quite good.

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Sourdough is probably different wild bacteria from yogurt bacteria I must assume. Ultra pasturized as well as canned milk makes a less dense product due to killing off more of the necessary enzymes needed to clabber to a yogurt. You can, however add sour cream or yogurt to a sourdough bread to help it get more sour character. To make a cheese, either place in fine cheese cloth and drain, or add a little rennet to help it thicken a bit more.

Well, pairie love, I don't have bees but I get all my honey from a local guy who does have hives and gives me wildflower honey in exchange for homemade jam. The barter system is alive and well here, LOL.

Zabby, let me know when you get that grow-your-own-oats thing down. My 'spare acreage' is all taken up in hay for stock, but I do make my own granola. With local maple syrup from another farmer who trades for beef.

Dave, I wish I had a wood stove. When/if I get one, I'm going to remember not to leave my yogurt all propped up somewhere, LOL.

Bejay, darned if I know, but at least you got something usable!

Now, I gotta stop at the store for milk, time to make the yogurt.....

Annie

Link to the other recent thread, which is obviously duplicating efforts here.

Here is a link that might be useful: Yogurt thread

Ken, the other thread had a very specific question.
Nothing wrong with it existing as well as this one.

Annie, any recommendations on oat varieties? I've got a spare 3x8-foot raised bed that lay fallow last year. (Closest thing us in-town folk have to "acreage.") ;-p

Zabby

Zabby, no recommendations on "tried and true" oat varieties, LOL, because I don't grow 'em. My neighbor swears by something called "Dane", he says it's early enough for Michigan's unpredicable and short growing season, but also tells me there is a "hull-less" oat available now. Copenhagen seems to like the "Dane" very well, but after all, he is a horse. LOL.

Annie

I'd volunteer some of my honey - unfortunately, they swarmed a few months ago, and my "upscale" neighbors called the exterminators! I still see a few going in and out, but guess I'm going to have to live with "progress" here.

Hope I can keep my hens.

Really did enjoy whatever that turned out to be from my yogurt experience. How long would it take to make cheese from this? I think I added salt to a previous trial.

It did firm up quite a bit after putting in the fridge and lost a lot of the sour taste. I'm really tempted to make more.

Bejay

OK, you guys have talked me into buying a yogurt maker since I don't have a wood stove, gas stove with pilot or southern window. Is anyone making yogurt ice cream? Any recipes? Also, how long will yogurt last in the fridge before going bad?

Store bought yogurt (flavored) has a shelf life of about 3 weeks. I had a friend who delivered it and would bring home boxes of nearly expired product. Once in a while I would see a couple that had mold forming on the surface. It was the Yoplait brand.

Okay, had some of my homemade yogurt for the first time tonight and it wasn't too bad. Mixed a little Equal and a dab of vanilla in a bowl of it. Put a couple of T. of yogurt into skim milk in a quart canning jar. Started it out wrapped in the heating pad, then finished it by sitting it on top of an upside down cake pan on top of a cooling rack on the upper level of my woodstove. It wasn't as firm as the commercial yogurt, but its edible, I liked it and will continue making it myself.

Thank you for starting this thread, Rachelellen, and thanks to everyone who submitted tips for those of us who have never tried it.

Remember, you can make it as thick as you like by letting it drain in a colander lined with a clean dishtowel or muslin cloth. A little while ago, I let it drain too long and ended up with a texture almost that of softened cream cheese...my husband loved it!

Has anyone ever made their own sour cream? I was wondering if I made my own buttermilk with milk and lemon juice would it work to make the sour cream?

I don't know, but have a hunch that someone on this forum will be sure to try it. LOL.

Now let me see - Hmmm - lemon juice or vinegar??

Bejay

Yup, I've already tried it (grin) but my instructions say to use buttermilk.

Homemade Sour Cream
From: Paula Peck's The Art of Fine Baking (1961)

2 cups of heavy cream
5 teaspoons of buttermilk

Combine cream and buttermilk in a screwtop jar. Shake the jar for a minute. Let stand at room temperature for 24 hours. If room is especially cool (on a cold winter day) let stand an extra 12 to 24 hours. Cream will thicken. Refrigerate at least 24 hours, preferably longer, before using.

NOTES: Homemade sour cream can be kept in the refrigerator a whole month, and it will get thicker and thicker and better and better. It can be whipped, if you make it with heavy cream, but be careful not to overwhip, as it will turn to butter in a flash.

I don't know about that butter thing, with today's dairy products, but it makes pretty good sour cream!

Annie

I have some similar instructions for making what they call "Creme fraiche," which is a slightly sour cream --- less sour than what I would by in the store in a tub. Presumably it gets more sour as you let it sit longer (the "better and better")?

Z

I keep a can of dried, powdered buttermilk handy. Its been great when added to some blueberry muffins and some other things I like to make and bake that call for milk, and I have none in the house.

I wonder if dry buttermilk would work to make sour cream? It seems like there couldn't be any cultures in it. I like using the dry for baking as it's always handy. I just mix it in with the dry ingredients and then add water separately...skips having to mix the dry into the water and getting all those lumps.

ksrogers wrote "There are some decent rubber heat mats that will work well for plant starting and also yeast."

Lots of people use to have water beds & they gave them up but still have the flat heaters that go under the bag kicking around. I posted on FreeCycle asking if anyone had one they didn't use any more & got two! They make great heating pads for starting seeds or all sorts of other things.

Annie,

I just had my first taste of the "Homemade Sour Cream".

It's the best I have ever tasted! I'll be making homemade from now on.

Thank you for the recipe.

Lynn

Lynn, you are very welcome. I like it a lot better than the commercial stuff too, but it sure isn't low fat!

Annie

I wonder if you could use buttermilk powder....hmmm.....

What do you think?

Deanna

I just bought a big bag of dried buttermilk. I can't enjoy it in anything unless I also take lactaid. Sour cream for me is like dynamite, while cheese and yogurt don't seem to bother me very much. Lactose intolerance is hard to deal with and has been traced back through my ancestors who were not brought up on much of any dairy products. I think the powdered buttermilk may be freeze dried, so it will probably kill off any of the natural bacteria that is needed to get it working again. Besides that, buttermlk is mostly the whey, and is the partially solids and liquids left over after butter is made.

> I think the powdered buttermilk may be freeze dried, so it will probably kill off any of the natural bacteria that is needed to get it working again.

Maybe not. There used to be a microbiologist in the tomato folder that might know. Does anyone here know?

I just looked at my two kinds/brands, and neither stated any freeze dried method. They do, however, contain whey and even some other essential enzymes. Its worth a try. It may be like a typical sour dough culuture where drying will not harm it. While on that, sourdough bread done by one chef on the Food Network, had only flour and water and let it sit a few days to make its own culture without adding any kind of yeast or other starter. I expect that method to be a bit too unpredictable and subjct to what ever is in the flour or water alrady. Maybe something toxic??

OK, I experimented with this....nothing scientific, you understand.

I bought a pint of whipping cream.
Added 3 rounded teaspoons of dry buttermilk powder.
Left on the counter overnight.

Nothing but warm cream with a few lumps of buttermilk powder that didn't quite dissolve.

Put in a warm water bath in the oven with the light on for about 6 hours...

Nothing, see above.

Added a little bit (2 teaspoons maybe) of plain yogurt.
Left in warm water on the counter overnight.

Voila!!! I made.........something. ??!!
The question is: Is it sour cream or is it the creamiest yogurt ever?

The flavor is almost right in the middle.
Texture while still room temp is like yogurt.

So, I'm not even sure what I learned except that I wouldn't recommend the buttermilk powder to make sour cream!

Deanna

Deanna - good girl!

That's what I like to see, somebody that can't resist "touching up" (improving) recipes.

I just tried my canned evaporated milk recipe in my yogurt machine. This time - I used some of my sour dough bread starter (always ready in the fridge now), to which was added some of the whey that was created from the last yogurt batch I made. (I also had some great sour dough bread in the meantime as a result).

So - this time, after overnight cooking, it created 1 jar of curds and whey and 4 jars of yogurt.

I then drained the curds and pressed them with a weighted cup and saucer whilst in the strainer. It made cream cheese. Outside of the fact, that the canned milk left the color a bit "cream" it tasted just like creamed cheese.

The other 4 jars would pass for sour cream or yogurt. The tops of each cup have some moisture, that could possibly be used to make sourdough bread culture.

Oh - hi Ken - would you care to comment?

Bejay

dgkritch,
What you made is 'creme fresh'. The French method of clotted cream.

Bejay,
That would be interesting. A friend uses sour cream in his very hard, crusty, bubbly bread. It helps to strengthen the sourdough thats also in it. For me, evaporated milk seems a bit too much like its cooked too long. It might be fine in a Ley Lime pie, (the sweetened condensed type), as the lime will kill that cooked flavor overtone. If I were to want to make a richer no fat milk, I would use the Milk Man dry milk powder (with a kiss of cream- motto by Familiar Foods)) . This is the best tasting powdered milk you can buy. Locally, its not sold here anymore, so I used to buy it direct from their distributor. Now, with lactose intolerence and the Lactaid company discontinueing ther liquid lactaid drops, I have to buy regular lactaid milk (no or low fat).

Well, cool. I'm glad it has a name!!
Supposedly I have a little french in me.....maybe that's where it came from!

Deanna

Anyone still looking for the seedling heat mats and lives where there is a Rural King store might want to check there. I just saw a flyer from them showing the mats for $22.99. Thery also have a heated germination station for $29.99 and a 4' grow light system for $56.99 - I think you could make your own for a lot less.

By the way, my 5th quart of yogurt is ready to eat. I started with skim milk and two tablespoons of store bought yogurt and have used the homemade to start every quart since. With each quart it gets thicker and better. I'm hooked, but my DH insists I'm going to poison myself. I'm restraining myself from trying to make the sour cream, but I know I'll probably wind up doing it, too.

Well bcskye, I've been making my own yogurt for years, and haven't poisoned myself yet. When and if it goes bad, it'll be obvious enough that you won't have any notion of eating it. :D

I'm sure it won't poison me and I'm enjoying every spoonful. I'll let him think what he wants so I can have it all to myself. ; )

A 4 foot two bulb flourscent fixture can run about $12, and two grow bulbs will cost about $4 each. Home Depot is where I get mine and I have 9 of these fixtures in my plant/seed starting shelf system.

I use a 2 qt yogurt maker. Its just a tub lined with styroform from a commercial cheese place I found on the internet. Its a round one just like the ones that used to be popular in the 70s. It has no element, but I make standard yogurt according to the directions, heating the milk, and it's perfect every time. I use a thermometer so it's approx 108F when I put in the little jar of storebought yogurt. It's about 105 when I pour it into the yogurt maker. Put on the lid and leave it about 8 hours and it makes perfect yogurt every time. I use 2% milk with about a cup of power added.

I also add sweetener before I pour it in.

I used to have one of those makers with the little jars. Didn't make much for the trouble of washing all those little jars. The 2 qt tub is much better. When I made it in the little jars I would put in a couple of tblsp of strawberry freezer jam before pouring in the yogurt mix. Yum Yum! Perfect fruit bottom yogurt and with the jam I didn't need any sugar on it.

I did it! I made yogurt! I'm excited! I added a tablespoon of fruit flavored jello in with the yogurt and have a lovely pink fruity yogurt!

I just put it in the fridge to chill. It did sit out for about 22 hours to set. (I was at work) Is there a risk of it being spoiled and making us ill?

Now you can go to the next step and make yogurt cheese. Its spooned in to a coffee filter and allowed to drain for 24 hours. Adding rennet will also thicken it a lot too. Because the yogurt culture that was added is active, it quickly multiplies and will kill off most bad things. Ultra pasturized makes it almost shelf stable, so it shouldn't go bad. The worst would be salmonella, but that can't survive in the naturally acidic innoculated milk. About the worst thing is it could sour, but thats very obvious by the off smell and appearance.

I make homemade yogurt all the time. I really like straining it (for greek yogurt) and adding grated english cucumber (well drained), minced garlic, lemon juice, salt and pepper for tzatziki. Great on crackers, veggies, etc.

I buy the culture from the New England Cheesemaking company (I like the sour culture) and follow the recipe of the guy on YouTube - type in Greek Yogurt. The guy from Colorado with the little Greek flag is the one you are looking for.

I have also the cultures for sour cream and creme fraiche, but have not had the occasion to make them yet.

To answer your question, I do not think you need to boil the milk, but it does need to be heated to the right temperature. To set the yogurt, I just use my oven. No heating pads or extra stuff...I put my oven on for about 3 minutes at 200 (the lowest setting) and then put my bowl in the oven (covered) overnight. (It is not even close to 200 degrees) In the morning, I put coffee filters in my colander and put the yogurt in that (refrigerated) for about a day. I use the unbleached coffee filters instead of the cheesecloth as I was concerned about getting the cheescloth clean enough between uses. You can use this yogurt for making more batches, but since I make a gallon at a time of milk, it lasts me and my family over a week.

So I'm wondering if I can use my crockpot on warm setting to make yogurt in. Otherwise, I guess I could do the oven idea from mrskirky. Anyone tried a crockpot before?

You would need to get the very low heat required for it to clabber. Not sure how low a crock pot will go as to temperature. Some people simply use a heating pad.