Good find! I wonder how you get them off? I usually destroy the metal ones by using a pointed can opener which releases the vacuum. I wouldn't want to do that with a reusable lid.

Zeuspaul

It's a plastic flat with a rubber gasket similar to the rubber gaskets used on the old bail jars. The rubber gasket makes re-use possible, though over time the gaskets would need replacement.

I think the name of the man who sells them is Loren Steig. One caution: I understand from comments he made on another Forum that some while back a large batch of flats which failed quality-control "disappeared" and are perhaps the same ones being marketed on ebay. He is not selling there.

I have not used the Tattler flats and have no opinion on them one way or another.

They have been discussed on Harvest previously. A google search should bring up one or two threads.

Carol

Read through quite a bit of discussion on them over on another canning forum. Mixed reviews but several people there were using them. Apparently you remove them by slipping a table knife between the rubber gasket and the jar top.

Dave

I think they are a joke. It says they MAY be reusable, not that they are. From what I can determine they will not save you any money. It is cheaper to just buy regular lids and rings.
Reusing any rings like that would be like reusing the flat lids. Not a good idea. I think you would wind up with lid failure. My suggestion, stick with the tried and true.
Have you figured out how much it would cost to buy the pieces to go with the rings ?
I emailed them a while back, asking for samples since I work at the extension office. Never heard from them. If they were so interested in promoting their product I would have thought they would have jumped at the chance to share a sample with me. If they were great, they sure would have gotten good advertisement.
Just my 2 cents worth.

This bring up the question about the Weck jars - which I mentioned before. I've used them only recently canning some mixed juice, but can't say that only one time is any criteria of their "lasting" ability.

They use a rubber ring, similar to the old fashioned bail jars (yes - I'm old enough to remember them). They have a glass top that is held in place by several clamps while being processed (have only used BWB on them).

When opening, the rubber ring has a pull tab, which releases the vacuum. The jar is then capped with a nice plastic lid and can be refrigerated that way.

Personally, I like them and am eager to try them - as soon as fruit harvesting time arrives. However, as I stated in my posting, I'm not sure how often these rings can be subjected to this process, before they need replacing.

Bejay

Here is a lengthy discussion from another forum that the wife frequents if you want to read it.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Tattler lids discussion

The lids are reusable, the rubber seal may be reusable. I don't think you can compare the rubber on the reusable lid to the compound on the metal lid. You can't turn the seal over on the metal lid and the metal lid compound seems to maintain the imprint of the jar rim. Calling them a joke seems a bit harsh. It seems the intent when they were developed in the seventies was to have a reusable product. There are still people today who prefer reusable to disposable products.

The product is being reintroduced in part because they are BPA free. Also because the little guy can now compete due to the Internet.

I wouldn't be interested in the Tattler lid if I wanted to save money. It is the BPA free aspect that interests me.

If you crunch the numbers they aren't a bad deal. The cost of a lid and seal is 80 cents for three dozen or 72 cents for six dozen including shipping. Compared to 14 cents each for BPA coated metal lids it takes about six years to break even. Depending on how many uses you get out of the rubber seal you may end up ahead of the game with the reusable lids. And you can pass them on to your grand kids.

For a BPA free canning solution they are a better deal than the Weck jars. The break even point for the Weck is twenty five years or more. However the Wecks are prettier and I find glass lids more acceptible than plastic. If I had the bucks I would go for the Wecks.

One of my canning pet peeves is purchasing the lids. It is the most expensive part of my canning process. Most costs are fixed and eventually pay for themselves, the tomatoes are *free* and the energy costs are what they are.

I was ready to replace my jar collection with Wecks. Now I think I'll opt for the reusable lids and a few Wecks just for fun.

I am willing to spend more for better quality food. I grow my own food because I want to know what's in it. Introducing BPA into my organic food is something I prefer not to do. Now there is an option for BPA free home canning at little to no cost. Count me in. The wife will be happy because she doesn't like BPA and she likes to recycle/reuse.

Zeuspaul

Some metal lids advertised as bpa free

Here is a link that might be useful: bpa free lids

jonas, thank you for the link for the BPA free lids. I think that is a good deal. I will check my stock of lids and see if I have plenty. Since the shelf life is about 7 years I try to stock up on them when I get a good deal. I know they will last.
When I ordered all that I have now I got them from some guy on ebay.
Sorry for sounding so harsh about the other lids. I guess I feel a bit upset that they have not returned my emails. I thought they would be happy to allow people to try them, knowing if they are that good they would get a lot of business by word of mouth. Perhaps I will try again to see if they reply to my email.
I wonder what type of plastic they are if you can pressure can in them ?

The Tattler plastic is an FDA and USDA approved, food grade product known as Polyoxymethylene Copolymer (POM) or Acetal Copolymer.
which doesn't mean anything to me. BPA is also FDA approved.

They can also be used for pressure canning.

I emailed Fillmore Container from jonas link to ask what kind of plastic they use to coat the metal. Also to see if they are suitable for pressure canning. They don't provide much detail in their description. At 16 cents each including shipping they are on a par with Walmart prices for standard BPA coated canning lids.

Just because something doesn't contain BPA doesn't mean it is safe. I would like to know if we are exchanging one risk for another.

I believe Tattler has been inundated with emails. They were out of production and just selling their remaining stock. That's probably why they were not trying to promote their product with free samples.

Word of mouth facilitated by the Internet seems to have enabled them to go back in business. It looks like their first production run will be shipping in April. These are my impressions from the little research I have done.

Zeuspaul

Zeuspaul, you are right, we really don't know at this point if the risk is just a different one or not. I wonder how we can find out for sure. You also make a good point of so many things being said are safe, yet have all kinds of risks involved. We live in this chemical ridden society. So hard to not be exposed to toxic things.
I can understand them not promoting free samples, but since I work in the field of teaching food preservation I would think they would be willing to answer my request in some manner. Even if they say "no", at least I would get a reply.

Perhaps you used the email address on the box which is outdated. Their new address is lcstieg@sbcglobal.net

Zeuspaul

Will someone in the know tell me why/how the Weck jars are any different/better than the old fashioned bail jars with rubber gasket? I have a couple boxes of those old bail jars that I can get new gaskets for from Lehman's but I have always shunned these as nothing more than pretty storage jars. Now I am beginning to wonder why? All this BPA hoopla is making me feel so discouraged. Advice please, does anybody out there ever use those old jars?

Abhaya

The old jars are more irregular than the Weck jars. It's a matter of engineering. The seals are less predictable because there isn't the same precision. Not to mention with old jars there's an issue of brittleness related to age. You risk shattering with the application of heat.

Carol

All this BPA hoopla is making me feel so discouraged.

Keep in mind that at least some of it is hoopla and blown all out of proportion.

If you want to try some of your old jars - I'd stick to BWB - get yourself some of the gaskets and try some "canning water". That way you can discover which ones seal well and which don't and then decide if you want to use them for canning foods.

Dave

According to Weck

Is there any other reason why WECK does not produce home-canning jars with mechanical sealing devices?

Yes, and it's a reason of utmost importance: Your personal safety. In case the contents of a jar should spoil for any reason (for example, as described in Case 2) the gases formed by spoilage inside the jar must be free to push up the lid so that it lies loosely on top of the jar. This warning signal is so clear and strikingly plain that it is best suited to protect you and your family from the dangers of consuming spoiled canned food unknowingly. For this extremely important reason of personal safety, a reason which is still more important than the practical ones mentioned above, WECK has consistently refused to produce jars with mechanical wire bail seals for home-canning purposes. In case of spoilage, these mechanical seals cannot produce the strikingly clear warning signal of the loose lid.

Sounds like marketing to me.

Some have reported difficulties pressure canning with Weck jars. The seal pushes out between the two clamps during pressure processing. Weck says you should use three clamps instead of two for pressure canning.

I am not so concerned about the BPA in the Ball lids.
Since it only sits on top of the jar and my food isn't sitting on the lid. Perhaps Ball will address this issue later on and inform us about their products.
As for now, we still only recommend using the standard metal lids and rings for use in processing foods. The others we tell people to use for dry storage.

I do agree it is very discouraging I personally am sticking with ball lids there is so much chemicals that can kill you now it is sickening who is to say that tatler plastic is safe or that rubber seals or even the glass itself is safe.... Makes a person crazy thinking about it in the end we all get dead anyways

Thanks all for your voices of reason. Trying to keep everything in perspective is daunting anymore. I'll just keep on canning with my Ball rings and lids as well. Knowing where my produce comes from and growing most of it myself should be enough!

Abhaya

zeuspaul -

I'm not sure what is meant by using "home-canning jars with mechanical sealing devices" as Weck does use clamps - however, they are not kept intact.

My experience with the Weck jars - only in BWB, however, is that the clamps are only used during processing. When the jars are taken out of the canner and cooled, the clamps are removed - leaving the rubber ring between the 2 glass surfaces to maintain the seal. In that regard, it works like the Ball lids - after the cap is removed - to keep the jar sealed. If the seal is broken, the lid will become loose - an indication that the contents may be unsafe.

Also - not sure about the seal "pushing out" during processing. Does that refer to the rubber ring? I believe they do recommend using 3 clamps, but not sure if that is to restrict the ring or the pressure inside.

I do like the idea of the food only coming in contact with the rubber ring and lid, which is glass. I know that the Ball metal lids are coated to be relatively safe, but I also am a bit unsure about any foods (especially acid) coming in contact with metal.

Since becoming involved in growing and preserving my own food from garden produce, I am aware that using the commercially canned foods of acidic type - give off a metallic taste, not noted in home-canned produce preserved in glass-type jars. Whether this is due to the food kept in the cans too long - past expiration date, or just coming into contact with metal initially is not known.

As most of my own canned foods are being constantly monitored for "shelf life" I haven't noted any metallic influence from Ball lids to date. I try to use foods before "expiration" times (1 to 1-1/2 yr turnover).

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Bejay, I believe Weck is referring to the French and Italian Bale-Wire Clamp Jars. The French and Italian mechanical devices are left intact even after processing. There is a hinge on one side and if you release the clamp on the other side the seal will probably break.

Also - not sure about the seal "pushing out" during processing. Does that refer to the rubber ring? I believe they do recommend using 3 clamps, but not sure if that is to restrict the ring or the pressure inside

The ring pushes out. The pressure still must be relieved. Three clamps brings it closer to the American style which has even pressure on the *ring* from the screwed on lid which must be only finger tight.

I do like the idea of the food only coming in contact with the rubber ring and lid, which is glass. I know that the Ball metal lids are coated to be relatively safe, but I also am a bit unsure about any foods (especially acid) coming in contact with metal.

There shouldn't be any contact with metal even with the metal lids. The metal lids are completely coated with plastic which contains BPA.

However BPA bonds break down in an acid environment. Heat facilitates the process. I have seen the failure of the coating in high acid relish after many years of storage. The plastic coating breaks down and then the metal is exposed. The food does not have to be in direct liquid contact. Acid is present in vapor form too. Remove the cap on a jar of vinegar and your nose will tell you acid is present in gaseous form. I will never again can high acid food with BPA coated metal lids. It may take years to expose the metal but the BPA starts breaking down from day one. I don't think there is a question as to whether or not BPA gets in your food. The question is how much and is that small amount enough to be concerned about. When I read that some have reported that parts per trillion is now a risk vs the old parts per billion I became concerned about even the very small amounts introduced with home canning lids. That's about 1000 times less than what was once considered safe.

As most of my own canned foods are being constantly monitored for "shelf life" I haven't noted any metallic influence from Ball lids to date.

I agree home canning only exposes the lid and is surely a lot safer than food in complete contact. Shorter shelf times can only benefit. However taste is not always a good indicator of safety.

Zeuspaul

I emailed Fillmore Container from jonas link to ask what kind of plastic they use to coat the metal. Also to see if they are suitable for pressure canning.

I received a reply from Fillmore Container. The long response time was due to the fact that the gentleman further researched the BPA free canning lids.

He responded that upon further research the lids do contain BPA. He also indicated BPA free lids are being tested and may be available late 2010.

Zeuspaul

Good to know and it looks like they took down the listing for them too after he learned that. Good for them!

Dave

What price are they asking for these lids, and/or what do they intend to charge for the newer kind? Did they let you know?

This would be interesting.

Bejay

No indication of price for the new BPA free lids that maybe available late this year. They don't look like they will be available for this canning season. The lids they had which were thought to have been BPA free were on a par with Wallmart prices when you include shipping.

Too bad someone doesn't just come up with a glass lid for our existing canning jars. There is probably more profit in a throw away lid.

I am anxiously awaiting my first order of six Weck jars.

Zeuspaul

Zeuspaul -

You might be interested in Melly's posting earlier today. She writes about her experiences with her Weck jars, which may be of interest to you.

Good luck with your Weck purchase. I'm using a few today - to freeze some orange juice, but hope to put them to good use later - possibly berry juice when my boysen's come in. Then I will do BWB. Putting glass in the freezer isn't such a good idea, but they probably won't be there long.

Bejay

For any interested the web site for the Tattler reusable canning lid it is www.reusablecanninglids.com Complete informaiton for this product is available on the site. This a time tested and true product developed to furnish to the home canner a product they could depend on year after year. Testimonials (addresses available to verify authenticity) give evidence to the rubber ring being used for 25-30 years. The lids themselves are guaranteed to last a lifetime or free repalcement. Hundreds of thousands have been sold and used without a request for a single replacement. For the naysayers feel free to use the BPA laden metal lids. Our product contains NO BPA. Our 2010 production is currently being shipped to hundreds of new customers, with many more daily. Considering the purchase of the Tattler reusable lids will last indefinately it is a very economical purchase. This a Made in U.S.A. product keeping jobs in America, from this we will not deveiate. For additional information visit "ask Jackie" a Minnesota based blog and "Back Woods Home Magazine". Jackie has tested, and given a strong favorable review in her magazine for her followers. We also have an 800 number on our site for any questions. Check it out, if you can find something better by all means buy it.

I am sorry, but the rules are NO ADVERTISING.

Why are these not sold in stores ?

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