You don't need to pressure can them. There are safety-tested recipes which only require boiling water bath. Be sure you don't alter the proportions of vinegar, water, peppers, etc. Be scrupulous in following the instructions.

The link below brings you to a Colorado State Extension page with recipes for marinated peppers and pickled hot peppers. Neither requires a pressure cooker.

If you scroll down the page, you'll also see instructions for refrigerated pickled peppers. They give a life of six months after aging (also refrigerated).

I hope this helps.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Making Pickled Peppers at Home

Whoa! 5 cups vinegar and 1 cup water? That's a higher proportion of vinegar compared to processed peppers. I was hoping for the opposite...not needing as much vinegar if they weren't going to be stored at room temperature.

Why is that?

Refrigerator pickles are now not considered safe due to the link to listeria. So, if you make them, do so at your own risk.
Listeriosis gained its fame after the first reported outbreak associated with coleslaw in Canada in 1981. The bacterium Listeria monocytogenes, which is widespread in the environment, causes Listeriosis. The pH range for the growth of L. monocytogenes was thought to be 5.6-9.6, but new research results show that the organism can grow in laboratory media at a pH as low as 4.42. New research results further revealed that L. monocytogenes can survive and grow in refrigerated foods with pH values of approximately 4.0-5.0 and salt concentrations of 3-4%; thus home-fermented dill pickles fit this description .

I would recommend making one of the recipes suggest by Carol and water bath process them.
If you want them more crisp, then you can purchase Pickle Crisp by Ball. You add it to the jars or the brine, according to the directions on the package. This year they came out with new directions on the useage. It is the same ingredient used by commercial industry to keep pickled products crisp.

OK - Very good explanation! I'll go full strength on the vinegar and follow the recipes!

Thanks Linda Lou and Carol

Hi Linda Lou. I thought the prohibition for listeria was refrigerated dills only, in particular dills fermented at room temp for one week then refrigerated.

So the Extension agencies are now recommending no refrigerated pickling whatsoever, not just fermented dills?
No sauerkraut? No kimchee that isn't processed?

Wow, that would definitely change some things.

Carol

Carol ... a week or so ago I forwarded you an exchange of emails with Dr. Andress (in switching IPS, I've lost access to my emails - temp, I hope) about this subject ... as I recall, what she said was the NCHPF would not recommend refrigerator storage of "PARTIALLY fermented" cucumbers at this time. There is an ongoing study.
This was in reference to a recipe for refrigerator dills in early editions of "So Easy to ..." It involved soaking in a salt brine -- no vinegar. Kay

Kay, thanks. I checked my inbox and my spam folder. Apparently it didn't arrive. I'm sorry it didn't because it's an intruiging issue.

I also sent an email to Dr. Andress. Poor woman, she's going to get tired of answering all those questions, though it does sound as if right now the jury's out on some of these things. "PARTIALLY fermented." That's interesting.

If so, the refrigerated peppers would be OK, I believe, because they're just packed, covered with hot brine and refrigerated. Hmmn. Any FRESH-pack pickle?

That leaves a lot of recipes in "Joy of Pickling" to re-assess.

Carol

Sauerkraut is still fine. Though, I know it does say to store fully fermented sauerkraut in the fridge for several months but for longer storage to process. I know Elizabeth Andress talked about fermenting it at the conference last week.
I know, I have been hesitant to email her so much ! I have a lot of questions to ask her. Time ran out and was unable to ask them.
So, I could be wrong about the pickle thing, but until we know for certain I would not make them. Some info I read didn't say just dill pickles. "but new research results show that the organism can grow in laboratory media at a pH as low as 4.42." That is my concern, how will we know if they are safe or not ???
She talked about how pickled foods start out with a natural resistance to the acid. She was saying how we need to heat okra in the brine to pickle it. I had never heard that before. That is also why salsa is not safe to just pack raw and can. It needs that heating to start the action of the acid. She said it "equilibrates" the ph faster. It was very informative.
Sometimes the more I learn the more questions I have.
There will be a new USDA guide coming out fairly soon. She thought it would already be out by now. There isn't supposed to be a whole lot of new things, but I do know it will have better explanations of acidifying tomato products.

That's really interesting, Linda Lou. It sounds as if we're coming to one of those points in food preservation where one study is going to have consequences with a whole range of products.

And I didn't realize there was a new USDA guide coming out. Hopefully that will clarify some of these issues.

Currently it sounds as if fully fermented products and products that are not fermented but heated in brine (which I assume would apply to those pickled peppers above if they were heated like the okra) are OK.

But right now I'm kind of relieved I don't do refrigerated pickles. I guess there is some sort of advantage to a lack of space.

Carol

Because I like a half decent crispness to pepperoncini peppers, which are a very thin skinned variety, I pickled them in straight vinegar and salt. The brine was mixed, peppers were de-stemmed, individually pierced with at least one small hole, and placed in a large air tight container while a vacuum was pulled on them for about 20-30 minutes. The vacuum was released, brine level was adjusted, and then the vacuum was applied again for several more minutes. The peppers were removed and quickly added to canning jars, along with fresh full strength vinegar and salt mixture. Each jar had the vacuum applied again, and the liquid level needed to be readjusted several times to get them to soak up as much vinegar, and pull out as much air. Just before a final vacuum, the lid is set on the jar, and the final vacuum is pulled for a few more minutes. Once its released, the force pulls the lid into the jar and makes a perfect seal every time. I do add a ring after rinsing the jars off. This process has given me up to two year old pepperoncinis that are nearly similar to fresh pickled as ones done a few weeks ago. I am not saying this is 100% safe, but with a high vacuum, full strength vinegar, and all sanitary practices used in the making of these, I have been able to nearly duplicate the commercial process. All that is needed now, would be a small amount of calcium chloride to help in keeping these delicate peppers from turning to mush. My vacuum source is a commercially made vacuum pump with an added liquid trap, as it could get brine pulled into the pump, should the brine expand beyond the intake hose of the pump. My half sour cukes stored in the fridge from last summer are now gone..

PS: Posted the process last year too, and still stick by it just for these pepper varieties only.

Ken, I strongly suspect that your favorite ingredient -- need I say it, vinegar -- is going to come into play. Maybe a combo from the get-go. I have a sneaking suspicion that we ignore the combined benefits of multiple perservatives.

Carol, Linda Lou: if you read the listeria abstract, you'll note that salt brine for seven days lowered the listeria count significantly. However since most recipes call for refrigeration at that point and "eat after 3 days", that's what the research studied and found a level that deterred them from putting out instructions for this method. You will note there was is no warning against this method, and it was dropped by the USDA around 1988. I had hoped to get an inkling of what the new research is looking at ... (maybe add a bit of vinegar as Claussen does or use a lower % brine and longer "partial fermentation") . The study is a part of the 2006-2008 plan.

All I know is ... lovers of chinese pickles, kimchi, half sours, sauerkraut, etc. are going to go right on eating their favorites while chuckling at us. This is, after all, not botulism. Most people will be effected little or not at all ... it's just us elderly, those with compromised immune systems and young children who should be careful.

Since cornichons use undiluted vinegar and a fair amount of salt, I would think they continue to be okay but way too sour for me.

And if you like sweet pickles, you can always put them in the freezer.

Freezer Cucumber Pickles

Makes 4 pints.

7 cups unpeeled cucumbers sliced thin
1 cup onions sliced thin
1 cup red bell peppers sliced thin
1 tbsp kosher salt
1 cup white vinegar
2 cups sugar
1 teaspoon celery seeds

Sprinkle salt over sliced cucumbers; let sit one hour. Make syrup with vinegar, sugar and celery seed. Bring to boil till sugar is dissolved. Let cool.
Mix cukes with onions and pepper, Put vegetables (with juices) into sterile jars and fill with syrup. Freeze.
Can thaw and eat after 24 hours.

kay

This is just a little bit of info I found. Being diabetic I really am careful with my food.
Elizabeth Andress did not give any information about the refrigerator pickles at the conference. One of the things I wanted to ask was about that subject.
LISTERIA
What is Listeria monocytogenes?
Listeria monocytogenes (Listeria) is a pathogenic (disease-causing) bacterium that is food borne and causes an illness called listeriosis1. It is frequently overlooked as a possible cause of illness due to its unique growth capabilities. First, it is somewhat difficult for laboratories to grow, and when they do so, Listeria can be confused with common harmless contaminants and disregarded. Second, most bacteria grow poorly when temperatures fall below 40°F, while Listeria survives in temperatures from below freezing (20°F) to body temperature and it grows best at 0°F to 50°F,1 including the temperature range that we use for refrigeration. As a result, Listeria may be transmitted in ready-to-eat foods that have been kept properly refrigerated. Its ability to grow in such diverse environments is just one of the many challenges presented by this dangerous bacterium.

It is estimated that Listeria causes approximately 1,600 cases of listeriosis annually, resulting in 415 deaths.

Where does Listeria monocytogenes come from?
There are many opportunities for contamination with Listeria during the process of food production because Listeria monocytogenes is ubiquitous in the environment.1 For example, it can be grown from wild and domestic animals, birds, insects, soil and wastewater, and vegetation. As it is a bacterium found in soil and vegetation, it is easily contracted and transmitted by herd animals. Listeria is found in grazing areas, stale water supplies, and poorly prepared animal feed. It can live in the intestines of humans, animals, and birds for long periods of time without causing infection. The bacterium is often isolated in cattle, sheep, and fowl, and is also found in dairy products, fruits, and vegetables.

Here is a link that might be useful: About listeria.

Until the refrigerator dill study I was more familiar with listeria in terms of fresh cheeses.

I do know it's possible, depending upon the strength (or degree of compromise) in your immune system, to have a wide range of reactions to exposure, from not getting sick at all to fatality.

I do agree, kayskats, I can't imagine sauerkraut or kimchees aficionados changing their habits, but now that I think about it, those are fully fermented and can be kept without refrigeration if you're fortunate enough to have the right conditions (though I have no plans to make kimchee and bury it!)

Carol

listeria:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/listeriosis_g.htm#greatrisk

I just received an email from Dr. Andress at the NCHFP regarding the refrigerated pepper recipe. Apparently fresh pickles made and then moved directly to the refrigerator are fine, so there's no problem with the refrigerated pepper recipe mentioned early in the thread.

Nor are fully fermented products like sauerkraut a problem; currently the prohibition is with partially-fermented products initially left out at room temperature and then refrigerated following that.

Here's the original question and her comments:

Question: "Do the listeria studies on dill pickles also apply to other refrigerated pickle products, i.e. this recipe [I appended the pickled pepper recipe], sauerkraut, kimchee, etc. Should they all be avoided?"

Response: "There is nothing wrong, to my knowledge, with a fresh prepared refrigerator pickle that is always kept refrigerated, like the one you cite. Listeria bacteria can multiply at refrigerator temperatures, although very slowly, so for this reason as well as others, a mildly acidic pickle product will have its shelf life partially determined by the exact recipe and refrigerator temperature. Many other things will affect the final refrigerated shelf life of each recipe and now the product is used during refrigerated storage.
The concern over a former USDA recipe called 'Refrigerator Dill Pickles' is that those directions (and there are other sources of this still out there) called for a week storage at room temperature in a salt solution BEFORE refrigeration. This is the process that was withdrawn by USDA in 1989. It was a partial fermentation.
A fully fermented pickle or sauerkraut, fermented at room temperature, if fermented fully to a good conclusion, can also be kept refrigerated without these same concerns."
Elizabeth Andress

So there it is. (For now, LOL.)

Carol

Carol, I wanted to ask her about the refrigerator pickles, but didn't get the chance.
I see they did remove it from their website at U of Georgia, but is still on Michigan State and others. They are even dated 8-3-99. Also, nothing was said at our last training sessions, either. The extension educator wasn't even aware of the link to listeria in the refrigerator pickles. It can be so hard to keep up with things.
Thanks for posting what Ms. Andress said about it.

I guess that if I want to head towards the direction of cooking and extreme heat, I would expect a mush fit for a toothless person who can get sick from eating something that might be just slightly bad. Honey comes to mind with botulism.. For me, I head in directions were I used excessive acids and salt, along with some of the common perservatives like sulfur (sodium metabisulfite), or ascorbic acid, etc. These as well as removing air from a jar mechanically, gives me a bit more faith in my procedures to help assist me in getting a texture I like to chew, not gum.

I just read in the herbs forum about a person that has way too much dill. Remember last year, when no one could find dill seed heads?? Maybe we should overnight a bunch of dill seed heads to those in need..

Is a new USDA guide out yet?

My pepper slice pickle jar in the fridge must be at least 3-4 years old by now. 50/50 mix sugar and 5% vinegar. Heat the vinegar just enough to dissolve the sugar and cool in fridge before slicing peppers into it. Remove peppers as you need them and add more later. Unbelievably good on a hamb in place of a regular pickle slice. The colors are incredible and when rinsed and dehydrated for powder the result is fantastic.

But now I'm worrying abt listeria. The pH is not going to change much even with the removing and adding new slices.

So what would you do? Continue the practice? I still have a couple quarts Heinz 19% acid vinegar that could use if need be.

JohnT

jt,
I wish I knew. I started my quest because I love deli half-sours which are fermented in a salt brine for 7 days and then refrigerated. NO vinegar. I know that listeria is killed at pastuerization temps and evidently when a product is fully fermented. I just can't get any info about the effect of vinegar on listeria.
The Chinese have made pickles the way you do your peppers for hundreds of years, even have special jars for it.
Most modern day refrigerator recipes (Joy of Pickling, Ball, Topps) call for immediate refrigerator and specify much shorter (refrigerator) shelf life ... weeks or months.
I'm afraid the NCHFP study isn't going to answer our question because the 2006-2008 plan refers to "partially fermented."

Kay

When I make half source for the frisge, I just use pickling salt and water, or for more dill flavor, one of the dill mixes from Ball or Mrs. Wages. I always taste the brine to make sure its not too salty or too bland. Add the very fresh pickling cukes, fresh dill seed heads (when still green and swelled) and garlic and let the batch sit on the counter for only a day or two. Then it goes in the fridge, but I do add about a tablespoon of white vinegar to halt further fermenting. These last me nearly a year in the fridge, provided they are not all eaten first. Didn't grow cukes year, but had LOTS of dill which I dried and packed in quart jars under a vacuum.

recipe from Colorado State Extension service ... it's similar to your pickle pot except you replace peppers as you eat 'em. (On this site, they say recipes are tested for pH.) Note the sentence about letting the jars cool before putting on the scresband. That way, you don't even have a heat seal, nor do you have an atmosphere where botulism can grow. Unfortunately, our questions about listeria remain.
Kay

Marinated Refrigerated Peppers
Remember, all pickled pepper products stored at room temperature must be processed, to avoid the risk of botulism toxin development during storage. The boiling water bath processing step can be omitted if pickles are stored in the refrigerator. Use the following procedure.

Wash peppers. Small peppers may be left whole with two small slits in each pepper. Core and cut large peppers into strips.

Sterilize jars, lids and screwbands. Pack peppers tightly into sterilized jars, leaving 1/2-inch headspace.

For each 6 cups of brine, combine 5 cups vinegar, 1 cup water and 1 tablespoon pickling salt. Bring to a boil, reduce heat and simmer five minutes.

Pour vinegar solution over peppers, leaving 1/8-inch headspace. Remove air bubbles. Adjust headspace so that brine covers all peppers. Wipe rims.

Place sterilized flats on jars. Do not put on screwbands. Allow jars to cool. Put on screwbands and wipe jars. Refrigerate six to eight weeks for the pickled flavor to fully develop. Keep refrigerated and use within six months. This pepper product allows the peppers to marinate in a high acid solution, at a cold temperature, and in the presence of air. These conditions are not favorable for botulism toxin formation. It does not ensure against other types of spoilage.