Botulism thrives in a "NO oxygen environment.
In fermenting pickles at room temp, there's still oxygen.
In a sealed (BWB canned) jar, there isn't.

Find a tested recipe for fermented pickles and I think you'll like the results (if you're looking for a crisp, sour pickle).

Lot's of things were done "back then" that were not safe. They just didn't know it and survived the odds. Some people probably died and the science (or desire to investigate) wasn't there to determine why.
Please use an approved recipe. It's sure easier on the mind!!

Deanna

1. Fermentation is a very specific process during which lactic acid forms naturally. So while it's true pickles in a salt brine don't have vinegar, they do have acid, just in a different form.

Not only that, but if you read through some of the previous posts about natural fermentation, it can be rather tricky. You have to be extremely careful about salt proportions and you have to monitor cleanliness, the state of the cucumbers at various stages of the process and the ambient temperature, among other things. There are many ways for fermentation to go wrong. Pickles can spoil and can produce rather nasty molds.

2. Many people aren't aware that originally (going back more generations than your grandmother) many of these old pickle recipes with less vinegar and more water actually used considerably stronger vinegar than you can buy now. So it may be that it's not 50-50, but if you're using 10% even up to 20% vinegar as opposed to 5% vinegar it's not the equation you think it is.

3. Pickles sitting in a vinegar-water mixture, with or without spices, are not fermenting. They do season, and during that process liquid leaches out of the cucumbers, weakening the vinegar solution further. So if it's not strong enough initially to compensate there can be problems.

4. A BWB can make things worse rather than better if the formula for the pickles isn't inherently safe. If you have pickles that are lower-acid than they need to be and then you seal them in a vacuum at temperatures insufficient to kill botulism spores, that's a problem.

What it comes down to is your personal priorities. All we can do is give our take on things. But you decide. So if you value the pickles as they are and don't wish to change, that's up to you. However, we can't tell you it's a good idea.

And "room temperature" isn't entirely accurate as cool storage during the fermentation process is recommended in all the recipes I have used.

So as Carol said, it is basically your choice. If you can get the strength vinegar that Grandma used, great, but also keep in mind that it isn't the ratio of vinegar to water that makes pickles soft and mushy. Lots of us make great, non-mushy pickles using the current standards. ;)

Dave

In all my years and my mom and her parents, we all made half sour dills the same way and I am the only one who refrigerates the jars once they are slightly fermented. My grandmothers pickles would only last a few days, so she would make more, once the level dropped in the jar. Once in a while a white scum formed, so she took out the pickles and refrigerated them, and cleaned out the jar, made a new batch of salt brine and started more cukes the day after.

Before mine get in the fridge, I add about a tablespoon or two of vinegar to the 1/2 gallon jars. This helps to stablize them and stop any further fermenting under refrigeration.

Carol

Dave

The brine for the passed down recipe I had been using was 1 qt vinegar, 3 qts water, 1 C salt. I tried making the pickles using 2 qts vinegar, 2 qts water (and the salt) after it was pointed out to me that todays vinegar isn't the same acidity it was was for those old recipes - but it just wasn't the same dill pickle taste we'd enjoyed. Still have it in my recipe folder but I don't use it.

I'm really surprised to also find out that garlic can cause or inhibit botulism growth. I was always told in the herb world that garlic had anti-viral, anti-bacterial, and anti-fungal qualities. People even use it when ill for those reasons, therefore I didn't think any germ, bacteria, or virus could survive in garlic. If anything I would have thought that adding garlic would actually ward off botulism or any other bacteria lurking around, making the pickles even safer. I am sure glad that was cleared up for me as well, it has been quite a learning experience. Thanks to all of you for the valuable information shared, you all may have just saved a life or the lives of my family members without even realizing it. I am indebted to all...Thanks again...Lisa

People working at the NCHFP and the Extension services carefully test recipes to arrive at optimal safety AND optimal flavor. If they can find a safe way to process a pickle with less vinegar, they will do it. But those recipes are lab-tested and verified.

The difficulty is when people pack cucumbers too tight in the jars, use jars of a larger size than the recipe calls for, use lower-acid vinegar, fudge on the processing time (start counting before the water's up to temp), add ingredients the recipe doesn't call for (i.e. garlic or hot peppers or fresh herbs) then you can have problems. Canning recipes have to be pretty precise.

Garlic is healthy. So are a lot of other low-acid veggies. But when you seal garlic in an anaerobic environment (i.e. no air) then you create the conditions things like botulism enjoy. Botulism spores like warmth (but not pressure canner temperatures), low acid and lack of air. That's why it was mentioned that some vegetables require a higher % than 50-50. It just depends.

When you can a pickle one important thing is not to pack the food too tightly in the jar. You want plenty of acid swirling around those low-acid foods.

Carol

Your confusion about all this is quite common so don't feel alone. It is the main reason we strongly encourage those not trained to understand all the "exact science" aspects of canning to stick with tested and approved recipes only. That way you KNOW the food is safe for you and your family.

With experience and training (readily available to most) you can come to know and understand all the ins and outs, what changes can and cannot be made, and how various foods and liquids interact with each other to make food safe or unsafe. For example, why garlic can inhibit bacterial growth in one situation but only make it worse in another.

And on the "others say..." please keep in mind that there is a lot of info out there and the source of that info has to be credible - many aren't. Many folks will "say" something is safe simply because, right or wrong, they have always done it that way and are still alive to tell about it. Maybe they have just been lucky rather than safe. ;)

Dave