But I did wonder about including the chocolate. I presume it is a recipe considered safe, because I know I got it here (though I uncharacteristically didn't note from whom --- argh, I hate that, I prefer to give credit where it is due), and don't remember any debate or warnings that would surely have ensued if it wasn't; I would have definitely noticed, because I knew I wanted to try it.

But doesn't chocolate contain fat, in the form of cocoa butter, which is generally a no-no? Anyone know why it is OK? Is it because it's a small amount --- 3 ounces of chocoate in a six pints of raspberries?

Or maybe it's NOT safe, I'm remembering wrong, and I need to keep it in the fridge? (There is, frankly, NO question of not eating it --- it is TOO good!)

I've made 7 cups of potentially toxic deliciousness? (Frankly I would probably eat it anyway, it is SO good!)

Also, any ideas on if it matters what chocolate one uses? The recipe said unsweetened squares, and I used a dark (70% cocoa) slightly sweetened Swiss kind, because the squares available were not as good a quality, and if I was going to the trouble of sieving a bunch of raspberries I wanted to start with good ingredients. I assume the only difference is that I ended up adding a wee bit more sugar.

Any thoughts?

Zabby

Generally chocolate isn't "approved" in jams on this side of the ocean, for just the reason you mention, the fat content. However, I would guess that is the assumption; I'm not sure any testing has actually been done. I'm not convinced a little fat in a high-acid high-sugar product is that big a risk. I would be concerned about something like a home-canned fudge sauce with chocolate and dairy, which is a different thing.

Approved recipes I've seen use cocoa, which I just wouldn't put in a raspberry preserve. Like the banana jam with cocoa.

Personally I wouldn't worry too much but refrigeration sounds like a great option. It's not as if it's going to last very long anyway, LOL!

I forget who recommended it - Dorie Greenspan perhaps? Or maybe Regan Daley? Anyway, she said she routinely subs bittersweet chocolate for unsweetened for just the reason you mention - poor quality - and also for an added smooth unctuousness. I've used bittersweet ever since and much prefer it.

Carol

I have popped those jars in the fridge for now but would love to feel confident in it as a canned product is to be able to give some away.

Ken makes an interesting point that chocolate itself seems to be very shelf-stable in a way most fat-containing items aren't. (It EVENTUALLY gets stale, and in the meantime can develop a sort of whitish coating, but that's not harmful or even bad tasting.)

The recipe I used is below. Does anyone recognize where it came from? (That'll teach me not to take note!) Melly, was it you who posted it?

Z

Chocolate Raspberry Jam

6 cups frozen raspberries, crushed or 7 pints fresh raspberries
3 (1 ounce) unsweetened chocolate squares
4 cups sugar
1 box powdered pectin
˝ tsp margarine or butter

Crush berries thoroughly, 1 cup at a time. If using frozen berries, use both liquids and solids; they were all part of the original fresh berry. (Sieve 1/2 of the pulp to remove some of the seeds if desired. You can sieve it all if preparing from those with dental problems. Removing seeds causes waste, so be sure you have enough berries.).

Measure 6 cups of crushed fruit into a 6-8 quart heavy non-reactive saucepan. Break the chocolate squares into smaller pieces and add them to saucepan.

Stir pectin into fruit and add butter. Bring to a full rolling boil. Boil for EXACTLY 1 MINUTE, stirring constantly. Quickly stir in sugar. Return to full rolling boil and boil 1 minute, stirring constantly. Remove from heat.

Skim off any foam and ladle the jam into hot sterilized pint or half-pint canning jars, leaving 1/4 inch headspace. Process for 10 minutes in a BWB. Makes 6-7 half pints.

My apologies to both for not having noted their contributions!

Linda Lou has OK'd it so I am going to give it away with confidence. (My best friend is a chocoholic, and especially loves it combined with fruit; she's going to be my witness at my wedding and I have been looking for little giftie things --- not expensive, just special for that person --- to give the folks who are helping me out, and one reason I made this recipe was thinking it would be a nice part of a gift basket for her.)

I like a soft set as well, but my pectin version didn't set even that far, at least so far, though it is pretty thick for a sauce. I think I did not let it boil hard enough before the sugar. When I saw how hard it boiled for that second minute, after the sugar, I decided the previous minute might not have really been a "roiling boil" of the same magnitude.

It is really surprisingly delicious. A little sweet for my taste, but I am NOT a big fan of chocolate/fruit combos --- generally I love chocolate and love fruit but prefer them separate. But this is lovely, not very chocolatey -- just a very intense raspberry flavour with a hint of chocolate, such as to sort of, as I said, intensify the berry flavour. Really nice.

But now I want to try the Mes Confitures version, too! I wish I'd thought to Google this thread before I made it. A little less sweet would be perfect.

Well, something to look forward to for NEXT year....

Z

You may remember that I made jars of various preserves, etc. for my friend's wedding a couple of years ago (this is the friend who love chocolate, and really appreciates home canned things!).

I really liked that idea, and was thinking I would do the same for my own wedding, but so many people are flying here from out of town --- our families are far-flung --- and I found out (the hard way!) that a mason jar of jam is NOT allowed on carry-on airline luggage in this day and age, so it seemed not a kind thing to give them out!! So I am glad I got to do it for her.

Now my worry is that all the wedding stuff in the early fall (it's in September) will intefere with the tomato harvest! I may have to have U-pick tomatoes for favours....

;-)

Zabby

Zabby

I do have to say, though, I don't worry about Ferber's recipes either, even though she follows the European practice and doesn't BWB. I just can't imagine much of a problem, other than the scant possibility of mold. Hers would be definitely be lower in sugar and I assume more intensely flavored.

I've gotten fairly good at locating items in GardenWeb threads using their native search engine, but really Google is so much easier I don't know why I bother. (Except for the challenge, LOL.)

Carol

Zabby, those carry on rules changed my plans last christmas. I ended up mailing all the jars that I normally would have carried in my luggage.

My true reason for logging onto this thread, though, was to tell you congratulations on the upcoming wedding and I'm wishing you lots of happily ever after.

Virtual hugs to the beautiful bride.

Annie

And Zabby, my very best on your upcoming wedding. A virtual toast to the bride!

Carol

and you are right- it is totally yum-o!

bluejean in ohio

Oh, yeah, except for one half-cup jar, which still seems to be runny. Very weird. And the one that I didn't process but put right in the fridge. Maybe less weird.

margi,
I was so pleased with how a small amount of chocolate taste really worked well with those rasperries!

Annie and Carol, thanks for the good wishes. We had a lovely Jack & Jill pre-wedding party with all my old friends in Toronto tonight, and I brought the hosts a little basket of my garden harvest (sugar snap peas, purple snow peas, my first hot portugal pepepr and a nice deep green anaheim, a few precious early tomatoes, and three softball-sized zucchini, bwahaha!).

Zabby

I have a question that came from reading the old thread. Marcia had mentioned making raspberry vinegar with the raspberry pulp. I wanted to know the proportions of ingredients and how to make it. I have the pulp waiting patiently in the fridge til I find out!

Thanks,
Gwen

Thank you!
Becki

Here's Melly's post of the Ferber recipe with her comments:

I'd like to try the Mes Confitures version. I'm planning to make it this week. She uses extra bittersweet chocolate and less sugar. After I weigh the the raspberries, I'll measure them and compare it to the ball recipe. I think I will cut the chocolate back to match the level used in the ball recipe. I'll use the bottled lemon juice instead of fresh also. Of course this recipe does not use pectin.
Raspberry with Chocolate
2 3/4 lbs (1.2 kg) raspberries, or 2 1/4 lbs (1 kg) net
3 1/2 cups (750g) sugar
Juice of one lemon
9 oz (250g) extra bittersweet chocolate (68% cocoa)

Pick over the raspberries. Omit rinsing them so as to keep their fragrance. Put the raspberries through a food mill (fine disk). In a preserving pan, mis the raspberry pulp with the sugar and lemon juice. Bring to a boil and cook 5 minutes, stirring gently and skimming carefully. Add the chocolate, grated. Mix and then pour into a ceramic bowl. Cover with a sheet of parchment paper and refrigerate overnight.
Next day return the mixture to a boil. Continue cooking on high heat for about 5 minutes, stirring and skimming if needed. Return to a boil. Check the set. Put the jam into jars immediatedly and seal.

I kind of like this method. I use a 2 quart glass measuring cup for the overnight rest. Then I know how many jars to prep the next the day. I'm planning to use a half teaspoon of butter for the help with foaming also. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Carol

Melissa

I'm wondering if you're remembering this comment from a different member instead?

• Posted by melva02 z7 VA (My Page) on
Sun, Jul 30, 06 at 22:51

Here ya go Zabby. I made it the way Melly describes, but since I could only get 60% cocoa for the bittersweet chocolate, I used a 4-oz bar of that (Ghirardelli) and one ounce of unsweetened chocolate. It's delicious. I think I used a mix of red & black raspberries.

Melissa

(And Carol)

Melissa (saving the thread this time)

Memory is very fallible. (And don't I know it!)

Carol

Glad to see you on the Forum. You know, I've never tried that particular recipe, but I can't imagine 70% v.s. 68% would make any difference to those eating it.

Interesting that you cut back to 150g. I'm going to make a note of that. Personally I think for my taste your measure sounds better; otherwise I'd be afraid the raspberries would be lost in the mixture.

I have some good Callebaut bittersweet; now I just have to see what kind of berry harvest we have. It's been such a wet cold spring with terrible late freezes that berry and cherry crops are likely going to be much diminished.

Carol

As for raspberry vinegar, really use any amount of pulp you happen to have. Heat vinegar (I always do at least a quart), and pour it over the raspberry pulp in a jar. Cover, let sit for a couple weeks. Strain. If it seems more raspberry than you wanted, just add some more plain vinegar.

Marcia

Melissa

I ran off and did it myself, May 10. No gifts or favors at all, not even jam or salsa for the eleven people present. Well, thirteen if you count Elery and I!

I'm glad this thread popped back up, though, I never did try this jam and I meant to....

Melly, I'm happy to see you again!

Annie

I did try this jam - it was very yummy! Now that I have my own copy of Mes Confitures, I am trying LOTS of Ferber recipes! I LOVE them!!!

Becki

Melissa

Melly

But berry season is now upon us again---picked two strawberries in my own teeny patch today and saw a few for sale at the farm stand---so it won't be long before I can replenish! (Sheesh, I haven't even made rhubarb jam yet.)

Kayskats, I'm happy to report that I have not had a second wedding; my first and only marriage is still intact, as is my wonderful DH. ;-) We did serve the chocolate raspberry jam as one of several offerings at the Sunday brunch drop-in the day after the wedding. Though IIRC we put the jams away as soon as the croissants were gone because they were attracting yellowjackets like crazy!

And Annie, my dear, congratulations!!! Of all the news I missed while I've been off the list, your wedding is the biggest and bestest! I have been wondering if you'd done it, and am so glad you did. I know you and Ellery will (continue to )be SO happy. Sounds like you found the only man in creation who might BEGIN to deserve you.

Zabby

I remembered that her recipes have been discussed before and that I should BWB, so I'm okay with that. And this thread answered my question about chocolate in the raspberry/chocolate recipe - now I am standing outside willing my raspberries to ripen so I can make that.

I do have a couple more questions though. Carol, you said that you are comfortable with Ferber's recipes .... does that include essentially everything in that book? There are recipes for preserves such as zucchini, or carrot, or other items that I thought were low acid. I don't have it in front of me, but don't remember seeing the addition of anything that would make them acidic. Am I mistaken? Or are you really talking primarily about the fruit recipes that you are comfortable with?

In other words, should I feel free to try any of these so long as I BWB?

And a stupid question - are blackberries the same as black raspberries? And when she calls for "wild" raspberries or blueberries or other fruit, do you all just use regular old ordinary ones? For her green apple jelly, which forms the basis of many other preserves, does she mean "green" as in "unripe" or "green" as in "granny smith" type? And if, as I think, she means unripe, I need to thin the fruit off my apple trees - would I just use what I pull off?

Whew. I know I had a bunch more questions, but can't remember them now. It'll give me an excuse to post again I guess.

I've decided I like preserves. I like not adding pectin, I like that they often seem to use less sugar, and I like the challenge of getting them to the right jell. I have not become skilled at getting the fruit dispersed in the jar though. How do you do it? If I really shake and roll the jars as they set, I end up with jelly up on the lid. If I don't, the fruit all goes to the top.

Thanks all,
Ann

When I spoke of being comfortable with Ferber's recipes, I was thinking more generally of her sweet preserves, not such as carrot or zucchini. That's partly due to my disinterest in preserves that fall on the savory end of the spectrum. I'm not a zucchini preserves kind of person.

So to answer your question (allowing for a pretty cursory glance), the Carrot, Orange and Cardamom wouldn't concern me. You have sugar to bind the water plus a good measure of orange juice and lemon. On the other hand, the Celery and Apples with Mountain Honey and the Zucchini and Peppers with Spices I'd probably steer away from. I'm guessing with the sugar and honey acting as dessicants the risk is small but there are so many good preserves in the world I can skip those without any sense of deprivation.

If I were making them, I'd treat them as refrigerated preserves. Ferber's batches are small and those recipes aren't as "seasonal" as others, so if I were giving for gifts I'd probably make close to the time and pass on with a note to refrigerate and use within, say, three or four weeks.

Green apples means unripe apples. They have the most natural pectin. You can also make jelly from ripe green varieties but the pectin level will be somewhat lower.

Blackberries and black raspberries are not the same. Without getting technical, black raspberries separate from the central core when they're picked and blackberries don't. But you can use them interchangeably in recipes. The results will be different but still very good.

If I used only wild fruit or the varieties Ferber mentions, I wouldn't be able to make 95% of her recipes. Work with what you have that's good.

Fruit floats because the weight/densities of the fruit and the syrup haven't equalized. Before you bottle the jam let it rest 10 minutes stirring occasionally. Then bottle and BWB. That will eliminate (or greatly reduce) the float.

Gotta go. It's cherry season. I did a batch of Bing cherry-vanilla preserves and now I'm pitting pie cherries for the freezer. Then I'm picking some wild cherries for an experimental sweet balsamic syrup with star anise and hibiscus. It should be fabulous with cheesecake and panna cotta.

Carol

Ann, if you look at the page where Ferber gives the green apple jelly recipe, she says more about the apples...basically she says to get the very first apples that are ready.

Also, I personally feel red raspberries are a better substitute for black raspberries. Blackberries just have a whole different feel to me. Still interchangeable in berry recipes, but I'd use any kind of raspberries where she says raspberries, if you want to get the essence of the recipe.

Have fun! I love looking through this book, even though I don't eat that much jam.

Melissa

I don't really know if I would do one of the vegetable preserves, although some do look tasty. If I start considering one, maybe I should ask questions specifically about that recipe at that time.

Sorry to be dense about the apples but...ok green means unripe. The apples on my trees right now are probably only 1/3 to 1/2 the size they will get when they are ripe. I want to thin the apples. Would these work even though they are so tiny or would that just be a waste of effort? Melissa, you say the very first that are ready, that would imply I should not use these but wait almost until harvestable. I need to go read that page again...

Melissa, it's actually the other way around I need to substitute. The recipes I'm interested in call for blackberries, which I do not have. But I do have both red and black raspberries. So I will sub black rasps for blackberries, I guess.

Ah! I've never tried letting the jam/preserve rest before canning! I will do that, hopefully it will help the floating problem.

We didn't eat any jam really until I started on this preserving hobby, now we eat some, but still not a lot. However, I still feel compelled to try all these luscious sounding recipes, partly for the challenge. Then we keep a jar or two and give the rest away!

Thank you!

Ann

Thanks for the h

I'd use the thinned apples. As long as you're willing to allow for a little more prep time with the little 'uns, you should get a good pectin base from them. You're just doing what thrifty pioneers would.

The black raspberries should work very well as long as you go by weight. By volume the raspberries would be a lot less than blackberries. The nice thing is raspberries tend to have more pectin, so odds are it will be a bit easier to achieve a good set.

Carol

For a heavy foaming fruit, I let it sit for a while after I stir the pectin in, and this clumps the foam and it's easier to remove.

Irene

I never add butter to jam. I don't use it in pie fillings either.

Carol

Any advice is always welcome.

Thank you,
Teri

That recipe requires no added pectin as written. If you did want to substitute Splenda instead of sugar, then you would need to use some type of no-sugar/low-sugar pectin, whether it be Ball pectin or Pomona.

I use a bittersweet or extra bittersweet chocolate (between 60% and 72% cacao). I live in a very small town, but I can find bittersweet chocolates in my local grocery store (in the baking aisle).

You might try making it the first time following the recipe, and see if you like it before you start experimenting with Splenda/cocoa powder/etc.

If it would help you any, I did a post on my blog about making it. I used my wild raspberries, but the technique is the same. Hope this helps.

Here is a copy of the recipe I copied from one of our threads:

Chocolate Raspberry Jam
6 cups frozen raspberries, crushed or 7 pints fresh raspberries
3 (1 ounce) unsweetened chocolate squares
4 cups sugar
1 box powdered pectin
˝ tsp margarine or butter
Crush berries thoroughly, 1 cup at a time. If using frozen berries, use both liquids and solids; they were all part of the original fresh berry. (Sieve 1/2 of the pulp to remove some of the seeds if desired. You can sieve it all if preparing from those with dental problems. Removing seeds causes waste, so be sure you have enough berries.).
Measure 6 cups of crushed fruit into a 6-8 quart heavy non-reactive saucepan. Break the chocolate squares into smaller pieces and add them to saucepan.
Stir pectin into fruit and add butter. Bring to a full rolling boil. Boil for EXACTLY 1 MINUTE, stirring constantly. Quickly stir in sugar. Return to full rolling boil and boil 1 minute, stirring constantly. Remove from heat.
Skim off any foam and ladle the jam into hot sterilized pint or half-pint canning jars, leaving 1/4 inch headspace. Process for 10 minutes in a BWB. Makes 6-7 half pints.

Did I copy something wrong or am I missing something about the sugar and pectin?

Thanks,
Teri
Oh, is a non-reactive saucepan like cast iron, or enamel coated and not aluminum?

As for pans, I wouldn't use cast iron either, the acidity in some fruits leaches iron out of the pan. It increases the iron level in the food, which is good, but can also cause a metallic flavor, which isn't so good. Stainless steel is good, and I'd love a copper maslin pan but don't really have room to store any more canning stuff, LOL. Enameled works too.

I haven't made this recipe, but if I wanted to cut the sugar, I'd make the jam and cook it to nearly to jell point. Start checking at 218F with the frozen plate test. Dab a bit on a frozen plate and put it back in the freezer for a minute then check for set. If it's thick enough, add your sweetener to taste and jar it up.

Now, I have to tell you that jams with no sugar at all don't have the same pretty colors that jams with sugar do, and they don't last as long after they are opened.

I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work with a low sugar or no sugar pectin, but I hate commercial pectin because it's inconsistent and I get so many failed batches.

Pomona's is fine, if you can get your hands on some, it's not easily available here and has to be ordered via internet. I think it gives jam a chalky texture, but something like raspberries (unless you remove the seeds) you might not be able to tell.

Good luck, I agree that you should do one batch as written to see if you even like it. If you do, then start experimenting. Many things might work or should work, but don't work, and you only know that by experimenting.

Annie

So sorry about that!

Posted by ReadingLady above
Here's Melly's post of the Ferber recipe with her comments:

I'd like to try the Mes Confitures version. I'm planning to make it this week. She uses extra bittersweet chocolate and less sugar. After I weigh the the raspberries, I'll measure them and compare it to the ball recipe. I think I will cut the chocolate back to match the level used in the ball recipe. I'll use the bottled lemon juice instead of fresh also. Of course this recipe does not use pectin.

Raspberry with Chocolate
2 3/4 lbs (1.2 kg) raspberries, or 2 1/4 lbs (1 kg) net
3 1/2 cups (750g) sugar
Juice of one lemon
9 oz (250g) extra bittersweet chocolate (68% cocoa)

Pick over the raspberries. Omit rinsing them so as to keep their fragrance. Put the raspberries through a food mill (fine disk). In a preserving pan, mis the raspberry pulp with the sugar and lemon juice. Bring to a boil and cook 5 minutes, stirring gently and skimming carefully. Add the chocolate, grated. Mix and then pour into a ceramic bowl. Cover with a sheet of parchment paper and refrigerate overnight.
Next day return the mixture to a boil. Continue cooking on high heat for about 5 minutes, stirring and skimming if needed. Return to a boil. Check the set. Put the jam into jars immediately and seal.

I kind of like this method. I use a 2 quart glass measuring cup for the overnight rest. Then I know how many jars to prep the next the day. I'm planning to use a half teaspoon of butter for the help with foaming also. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Directions were perfect. Thank you all for your help and support.
Teri

"Skim off any foam and ladle the jam into hot sterilized pint or half-pint canning jars, leaving 1/4 inch headspace. Process for 10 minutes in a BWB."

Would that be right?
Thanks,
Teri