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| . Trying my hand at half sour pickles. Recipe called for a sealed container put cukes in a glass jar with luiquid and sealed and put out in my warm kitchen for three days they said. I have done fermentation before and thought you need an outlet for gases? I dont want exploding pickles. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Don't seal the jar, if they do ferment (which is what you want), it will explode (or leak all over if the lid doesn't fit really tight). I use a brine bag - just a ziplock bag filled with same brine you're fermenting in, you can squish it to totally cover the surface and fit down in the mouth of the jar, just take it off each day and rinse the sum off. I find there's not really anything to skim. I also started using food-grade plastic buckets/tubs to ferment in - snap the cover partway down and it will push the brine bag down and keep the cukes submerged, don't need to use a plate or weights, just keep a corner cracked open for air. If you haven't seen this recipe, I suggest using Linda Ziedrich's from The Joy of Pickling. Best half sours we've ever tasted! And the recipe is tested - not to mention fast (ready to eat within a week). Recipe can be doubled or tripled if you have a lot of cukes and a big container (just keep proportions the same - salt and water proportions are critical to fermentation). Where's your recipe from? Half Sours by the Quart 1/4 teaspoon black peppercorns, crushed Makes 1 Quart 1. Put the peppercorns, coriander, bay, and garlic into a quart jar. Gently wash the cucumbers, and remove the blossom ends. 2. Within 3 days you should see tiny bubbles rising in the jar; this means that fermentation has begun. 3. The pickles should be ready within a week, when they taste sour and when the tiny bubbles have stopped rising. |
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| If you are only letting them sit for 3 days you can get listeria. They need to be fully fermented. The other recipe sits for at least a week. It is tested, as was said. |
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| Listeria has not been reported in fermented vegetables. Listeria was recovered from fermented sausages and other meats, but not from fermented vegetables. It could be also recovered from some fresh vegetables, but not from fermented. Attached is the good scientific source to read about it. Recipe posted above is good. You can also add mustard seed. I also love to add just a pinch of turmeric. It will not change how they taste, but will give beautiful golden color to your pickles. Olga |
Here is a link that might be useful: Compendium
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| Pickl-it jars work really good, but are very expansive. I use enameled soup pot with plate and weight on the top of pickles. Just be sure that liquid level is above plate. This way you will have proper anaerobic fermentation. Put some dish cloth or plastic wrap to cover the top to keep it clean and to prevent dust, etc from getting into you brine. |
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| I removed lids and placed saran wrap over jars with rubber bands around them and made holes with a needle for gas escape, then weighted down with jars of water. I am a bit worried about above refs to listeria how about if I hot water can them at the end before placing in fridge would taht make it safe, not even sure of recipe now I found it on the net. |
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| Also my home is eighty degrees this must have some relevance to how long to leave these out to ferment |
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| Important distinction needs to be made here: While listeria has not been reported in fully fermented vegetables. Vegetables that have been properly and fully fermented are safe from listeria. However numerous instances of listeria has been reported in improperly and/or only partially fermented vegetables. Too little salt used for the proportion of vegetables or too little fermentation time allowed or improper temperature exposure can all result in contaminated foods. That is Linda Lou's point. 3 days is not sufficient for full fermentation. It takes time for full fermentation to develop and make the food safe. That amount of time is determined by the size of the container, the amount of produce used, and air temps. But during that time OR if that time is cut short, listeria contamination can happen. At room temperature listeria begins to grow within 24-48 hours so to kill it you must allow for FULL fermentation to happen. Safe fermentation is not just a matter of putting some vegetables and some salt into some container and then expecting all to be fine. Fermentaion has guidelines, ratios of salts to produce, and tested recipes just like any other form of food preservation. UNsafe recipes and UNsafe practices do exist with it just as with any other form of food preservation and it is the users responsibility to insure that they are using safe recipes and safe practices. In this particular case, given the lack of clarity in the instructions, the short fermentation time called for, and the information provided there are valid concerns about the safety. gdnh could you please post the full recipe/instructions? "Sealed container" could mean many different things from a tightly screwed on lid to sealed with a bag of brine to using a Harsch crock with the lid on and water seal in place to etc. What is in the brine? What amounts/measurements? Dave |
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| eHow How to make half sour pickles You Need 1 quart jar or bowl 1/4 cup salt tablespoon pickle spices Put the salt into three cups of water and dissolve. Place washed cucumbers into jar along with garlic and pices Pour salt water mixture into the jar on a level that covers the cucumbers. They mus be coverred by water. Do not seal (here I misunderstood, later made correction by putting saran wrap on top rather than jar lids, made holes in saran wrap to let gases out ) Let sit on counter for threee or four days Move to fridge. Is the above OK. If not could I boil them or something, ferment longer (presently day two) Or com0post? (Hate to do it but do not want sickness) |
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| Dave, that is exactly my point. These done for only 3 days are not fully fermented,so they don't have enough lactic acid to make them safe from listeria.Listeria can still grow in the fridge, so that would still not keep them safe to just put in the fridge. Fully fermented is totally different. Thanks for your clarifying this. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Listeria in pickles.
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| forgot these ingredients in above 2 o 3 garlic cloves cukes to fill jar |
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| Link below is to the exact instructions. Please note that in the info you first provided us you have left out some of the info they provided, important info in determining if the recipe is safe or not. Such as use a 1 qt. jar (is that what you used?), So let's start over, ok? First I suggest much more careful reading of a recipe's instructions. Second, longer than 3-4 days fermentation will be needed. HOW long all depends on if you used the right size container, the right amount of salt, weighed the cukes down properly (the Saran wrap with holes isn't a proper weight or cover as it allows air into the jar and scum to form), and the room temps. You will have to monitor the bubbles of fermentation to note when they start to determine how long. At 80 degrees (which is the maximum recommended temperature for fermentation, cooler is better), then IF everything else was done correctly it should take the pickles 5-7 days to ferment to a safe level. Taste them on day 5 and then give them at least 1 more day. Watch the bubbling activity to know. Cooler air temps would take a day or 2 longer. They can then go into the fridge. This is not an approved or even ideal pickle fermentation set of instructions IMO. It is very slack in its instructions. But it can work and be safe IF it is followed to the letter except for the fermentation time it gives - that is insufficient. Hope this helps. Dave |
Here is a link that might be useful: eHow - How to make 1/2 sour pickles instructions
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| saran wrap with rubber bands (holes in saran wrap with needle previously disinfected in flame) weighed down with smaller jar of water on top so cukes are undr liquid, yes to quart jars. Yes to bubbles. This is a good reminder to be more scientific my dad was a scientist so I should know better! |
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| If you're using a quart jar, and 3C of water then that's the same size batch as Linda Z's half sours but 1/4C salt is (please help me with the math!) about twice as much salt as her 1.5Tbsp so might be more like full sours than half sours (which she describes as being in a lower-salt brine, sorry I lent my book out so can't check how much salt/water for a full fermentation). Sounds OK as long as you take the plastic wrap off and use a brine bag instead, let them ferment longer - she says 3 days just to get started! Though maybe with all that salt it starts sooner if you're already seeing bubbles. Let's see, NCHFP says to use 1/2C salt and 4 lbs of pickles for each gallon container so it still looks like you have twice as much salt as needed... |
Here is a link that might be useful: NCHFP fermented dills
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| Sure the recipe is very heavy on salt - that's obvious to most of us. But that goes with choosing to use this particular recipe despite all its flaws - like the author apparently believes that doubling salt means you can cut fermenting time in half - NOT! Choosing recipes and evaluating both the quality of the recipe and the source of that recipe before using it is one of the most important parts of the learning process and everyone has to go through it. It is easy if you stick with the approved sources. If you don't then you head down the path to unsafe and poor quality foods. But that doesn't make this particular recipe unsafe and that is the issue here. Except for the fermentation time, the recipe is safe, it is just poor quality. Dave |
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