So true about the economy going out of home economist.

But, in today's litigatious world, it's understandable. If one of those jars broke in your canning kettle, and you hurt yourself fishing it out---either cutting yourself, or burning yourself, or what have you, we all know who's going to pay through the nose. The guy who put the sauce in that jar, is who.

Leigh: That size change on the jars took place within the past two years, on a phased-in approach. Once the new standard was established, they first used up their existing stocks, and then went with the new jars. So it depends on the company how fast the changeover took.

Meanwhile, the through-the-back-door price hikes that occur by making products smaller has been going on, steadily, since 1974. When, for instance, was the last time you saw a 1-pound coffee can? They're now down to 12 ounces. Most #2 1/2 cans now contain only 14.5 ounces instead of 16.
And so on.

All of which is just one more reason why it makes sense for us to grow and preserve as much of our own food as possible.

I'm just wondering how it's affected the anal-retentive cooks who have to follow recipes slavishly. Do they realize that "add one can tomato sauce" may not be the same can that the recipe-writer used???

We save every jar we get, every one can be used for some thing. i just filled and froze 8 32 oz lug jars with peeled garlic and froze it.
We boil bath as much of our fruit and pickles in mayo type jars. Some of the jars my mother canned in when I was young. They still are holding up well.
They have lots of those #63 jar lids on e-bay all the time, but they are pricey, cause they call them "vintage".
The jars might be good for keeping sugar salt ect in if you have the original lids.

I didn't forget, Annie. Just didn't want to grind what few teeth I have left.

I have some of those jars and the new rings slip when i try to can in them so I have to make sure I use old rings.
The flats fit just fine though.
when i try to tighten the new ring it trys to grab but keeps going.
There is a salad dressing company in this area that has the same type jar, just have to make sure I use old rings to can in them.

FWIW, I just put up a full canner load of diced tomatoes, all of them in recycled commercial sauce jars. Not a problem with any of them. Right now there's a second load, this time of puree, being processed, also in those jars.

I hate the idea that they changed the size.

Moosemac

I'd like to add one thing here. Your jar may very well say Atlas, however they are not canning jars as we know them. They were made specifically for Classico. I have dozens of the Bortolli pasta jars which say Atlas and Mason on the same jar. They are all 24 oz. and have the measures on the side. I love them and even use them in my pressure canner.
Bortolli now uses the lug closures. We're now out of luck saving those.

Annie/lad, in my area granulated sugar is still sold in 5-lb. bags. There are also 4-lb. bags, which are extra fine granulated, and often the store brand sugar will be available only in that form. Of course that's more sugar by volume measure, and since so few recipes I have use weight, that's very annoying.

Melissa

Quote: "Bortolli now uses the lug closures. We're now out of luck saving those."

Maybe not. Lug lids are available, and can be used with only a simple change in procedure.

You have to be sure to wipe the thread area extra carefully, because, you cna't get to this area after processing.

I can about 1/2 of my jams in "lug" type jars. These are the ones I use for gifts. The jars and lids are cheaper so I don't care about getting the jar back.

Smokey,
I didn't know lug closures were available. It's hard to believe they cost less than the flat lids I buy for $.99. I do want my 24oz. jars back. They are a favorite.
While going through my stash of jars, I found three "Canadian Mason" jars. The manufacturer is Bacol. These are 24oz. square bottom. Does anyone know of these? Is it possible they were sold as canning jars?

What are 'lug' closures? (sorta newbie canner here)

Here you go:

Here is a link that might be useful: Lug versus CT Closures

Ahhh....thanks Carol. Are they reusable?!?

Some people reuse them but the conventional wisdom is "No", same as the flats when you use lids and rings.

I wouldn't reuse (except of course to store something in the fridge or on the shelf). It's too much trouble making this stuff to risk the failure rate.

Carol

Shirley, My source for the "lug" lids charges 10 to 12 cents each. Most about 10.5 cents. A bit expensive, but does allow me to use jars that otherwise would be thrown away.

I think it's a real shame they have changed the jar mouths so that we can't use canning lids on them. I hadn't realized that yet, since I get those jars only from my sister in FL so it takes a while to reach me. I make my own spaghetti sauce so almost never buy it. I have never had any trouble using those jars or mayo jars or anything like that. Miracle Whip and Kraft Mayo come in plastic now, but still in glass as well, I will keep my fingers crossed. Only jar that ever broke in the canning process for me was one that I dropped TWICE on top of other glass jars on a particularly klutzy evening.

I find that 24 oz. size very well suited for my small household, so I put tomato sauce and applesauce and things into them and reuse those jars much more than my normal quart canning jars. Have also bought Miracle Whip in that size jar recently, I like that size and of course not having to buy the jars separately.

One of my not approved methods that works really well for me, I know all the advice is not to do it, is just to use the original lug lid again. It has to be in great shape and clean of course. I have done that with pickle jars and little jam jars my aunts collect for me, etc. So with the Classico jars, try using the lid again if you are as cheap as me. My ingredients are mostly free so I don't mind if something unseals, or I eat that one first. But I have excellent results with reused lug lids, have always had them seal as far as I recall, much better than I can say for brand new Golden Harvest lids.

The only type of lid that doesn't reseal, in my experience, is for baby food jars. They have some special lid to keep you from using the darn things that way again. Made a mess trying to can some applesauce in baby food jars last fall. Had to use my few precious 4 oz. canning jars instead for my friend's baby. Gave them along with a note that if the jars weren't returned I wouldn't can anything for her every again. Her hubby loves our salsa, and she loves my cinnamon pear toppings, so she gave them all back!

Marcia, who is disgusted with our throw away society

Please post recipe for cinnamon pear topping, I'm over run with small pears, too small to bother canning the "ususal way". Thanks in advance, Shammie

Smokey, please post source for lug lids!

I hate throwing stuff away that could be reused. I'm terrible about hauling stuff to the recycler, because that's a lot of work. But I reuse or give away anything that can be reused. I've run out of uses for old jars around here!

My source is Richards Packaging in Kent, WA.

They have plants around the country, so a web search may turn up one somewhere near you.

I prefer the Golden Harvest lids. I have processed over 400 jars this summer and not one failure. Also, when buying cases of their jars, the lids are not screwed on so tight that you can't use the flats, unlike the Ball jars. We all have our favorites.

I am all for reusing commercial jars for water bath canning only. Canning jars are getting very pricey. I recently paid $7 with tax for Kerr standard pints jars. Getting back to reusing commercial jars the problem with many of them today don't have the right size opening for standard or wide mouth lids. As long as a standard or wide mouth lid can fit properly over the lip of the jar you can reuse the lug lid of the original jar as a clamp by drilling a 1/2" hole in it so it won't act as a seal also. At least that is what I do. It has worked for me so far.

As for lids Big Lots carries the standard Golden Harvest brand lids for 99 cents for 12. I haven't seen the wide mouth lids though.

Big Lots seems to only sell the wide mouth jars, and no lids in a seperate box. A few times, I have seen regular mouth lids however. There was a source for a reusable lid with removable seal, but these are quite costly, even though you are supposed to reuse them. Haven't seen or heard of anyone who has tried them. I just went to that site, and found no mention of reusables anymore. They do offer several other links for home canning.

Here is a link that might be useful: Canning lids dot com

Just found some CLASSICO 4 cheese sauce at the local 99 cent store in So. Calif. with the STANDARD SIZED canning lid on it. I've already checked with a standard jar lid and ring. I'll go for more. Pissed that all my expensive Del Monte DeLuxe Fruit from Costco have the wierd sized lids that can't be used again. What a waste. In my area of So. Calif there is NO glass recycling except fot soda/drink bottles with a 5 cent refund. All other glass bottles, including all the heavy wine/liquor bottles MUST go to the landfill. My recycler said he'd get a $10,000 fine if the State watchdogs fine a wine bottle in his recycle pile. They were regularly accepted until last year when alcohol recycling stopped without notice. Until that time, they had to be separated by themselves but at least they were recycled. No more in one of garbage capitals in the world (California). Maybe one day we will wake up. Recycling in California is actually B.S. for most of the state. Yes, some more progressive cities recycle everything but I moved from Fullerton California 2 years ago in So. Calif. and there was no recycling for anything. Everything went into the dumpster. If you tied up your newspapers separately, the garbage man just threw them in with the rest of the garbage. Where I live now in Corona (in So. Calif.) it is pretty much the same - everything goes straight into the dumpster. A few soda cans and drink bottles (with the 5 cent deposit) get recycled but the majority go into the dumpster and to the landfill. Enough venting for the eve. Jim

hi, I've been canning for about 50 years now, if you count what I did at home on the farm as a kid. I always did everything by the book and was amazed when an "older" lady showed me how to can fruit in reused pickle jars and the like.( I still draw the line on "oven" canning, long water bath times instead of pressure canning low acid foods, and all kinds of what I consider unsafe canning practices. Botulism is nothing to fool with, did you know a taste of contaminated food, spit out, can still kill you!) anyway, I now have way more regular canning jars than I can ever use, and what do I prefer? the used jars with lug tops from jam, spagetti sauce and whatever. and I do reuse the tops. never had any problem at all, except that some of the pickle jars seal so hard that you have to distroy the lid to get it open. I now have a couple of jar openers with straps and handles, one on the lid and one on the jar and it's almost silly how easy they are to open now. also the painted lug lids resist rusting in my damp basement, you can also use a thin layer of vaseline on jars to prevent rust. I use a big double decker American pressure canner, that came with instructions to steam can,instead of water bath. the water level is about 3 or 4 inches. I put all my reused jars, with their reused lug lids, on the top layer of jars. with the pressure relief valve open, instead of closed like for pressure canning, I let the steam build up and when it's coming out the valve really good, then you start the timing for water bath canning. I pack jars with boiling hot food, using a big electric roaster to keep it really hot and not have any burned pan bottoms. I use this roaster for cooking up the apples for applesauce too. during the canning lid shortage of the late 70's and 80's, I taught myself to open regular canning lids,without damaging them, by prying them off with a knife edge. I experimented with these undamaged lids and was able to get them to seal, kerr were no good, ball lids good, their seal looks similar to what the lug lids have. so I find you can be a recycler and safe too. becky

I always use regular canning jars when pressure canning. just haven't tried the lug ones for that. becky

Reusing lids can offer you rust. Even if a microscopic scratch is on the seal and internal exposed area, they will contaminate, and then rust through from the inside. Canning safety is seriously compromised if reusing lids, and lug types are the worst as there is no 'in between' tightness that is needed if the product is to have a proper vacuum at its final stages. Even for that, many reused lids may not give you that vacuum sensing 'dimple' we all hear when the vacuum is being formed. No matter the cost, I would never waste money and my efforts on canning using a commercially produced product which has a 'one time' lug type lid attachment If I were to use old tomato jars, I could expect many problems. Because some of my home canning is somewhat marginial as to heat processes, I would rather be safe on the jar seals, as opposed to dealing with more possible issues from poorly sealed reused jars and lug lids, or regular lids.

hi, the rusted lids I was referring to was with brand new home canning lids. my rust has always been from the outside, so the vaseline coating really helps. Also the dimple you refer to is nice but not necessary, when you can feel the caved down shape of the lid when it is sealed. the button is nice as it won't click when it is sealed. I am concerned about the comment that "some of your home canning is somewhat marginial as to heat processes". That is one of the scariest things I have ever read. Any warm food can make a jar lid seal, it's the processing that makes it safe. Please don't take risks on the processing. Becky

I just finished canning tomato juice in Classico spaghetti sauce jars. I bought the spaghetti sauce at BJ's. They are 32 oz. jars and take standard lids and rings. Our supermarkets only carry the 24 oz. Classico jars and they also take the standard lids. I like the 24oz. size for pickles.

My Mom always reused mayo jars, and I wondered about the classico jars.
But, the only bottom jar blow out this year has been a recyled mayo jar, bummer becuase they were my 9 day sweet gerkins. I can't open one jar around anyone because they are GONE, lol. 3 gallon batches I made this year and I only have 2 pints left for the holidays!
So, now I am using the recyling jars for my dehydrated veggies.
Also, I make those cookie on a jar gifts for my kids teachers, so I will use those instead of pricy canning jars.

Every last mayo jar broke on me, even though they were never used as a canning jar beforehand. Cracks either out the bottom or up the side. The glass on mayo jars is very thin, and not designed for any home canning! Today, many companies prefer to pack mayo in plastic jars. I can't see 'buying' Classico, just for the jars.. I have a TON of tomato sauces I already made, and have not bought a single tomato anything in a store for several years.

I had high hopes for canning all my own tomato products this year, but alas the crop failed me!
There's always next year I guess.

I found this company for Jar lids, both lug and CT (standard thread). They ship to Canada, which is rare to say the least. Excellent service.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fillmore Container

If you plant tomatoes in the same spot every year, they leave fungal infections behind. Later years, early tomato blight can destroy a whole crop of tomato plants in mid summer. I avoid planting in the same place. When I doe see any leaves getting spots, the plants get sprayed with organic fungicides, in an attempt to protect them from further damages.

So far I haven't planted anything in the same spot twice, except carrots... I built a greenhouse this year, but was late getting the plants into it. They grew and grew to 8+ feet tall but even with hand pollination, they set very little fruit that never did ripen and then with the cold wet summer (very little sun) and poor ventilation, it was perfect conditions for powdery mildew that took over everything in mid Sept.
I have more tomatoes growing in my house right now, so should be getting a decent crop in late Nov. Fine with me since that is a better time to do my canning.

Anyone know where to get replacement lids for babyfood jars? I have some from Fillmore Container that sort of fit, but the original lid has plastic inside that molds to the threads on the jar when it's heated. The ones I have are a standard lug lid and it's kind of hit and miss whether they seal.
The sales rep said they would work, but now I am wondering if Canadian babyfood jars and American babyfood jars are not the same.

Metric measurements can cause all kinds of grief if the jars are metric or not. Here in the US metric is not 100% accepted yet and so many makers still use inches. Same with pints/quarts, as opposed to liters.

For powdery mildew there are several anti-fungal sprays that quite safe to apply.

I was just looking at my 1999 USDA canning guide earlier, and was a little surprised to see that they state that commercial jars (mayo, etc.) that accept a standard 2 piece lid can be reused for BWB canning, but will have a higher rate of breakage. I wonder if that's in the new one, too. I see it's available on Amazon now; will have to order it!

The USDA Canning Guide is from 1994. There's a second revision (your 1999) but AFAIK, nothing since then. I see a company called BN Publishing is offering a 2008 copy on Amazon, but I'm betting it's a reprint. I don't know what the copyright restrictions (if any) are for that title.

Carol

It is a shame that Del Monte cannot or will not use standard size jars for their products. My mom has quite a collection of regular, standard size 24 oz Ball mason jars (which are madly coveted) that are no longer manufactured. So the only alternative is to find other sizes that work.
Like so many of you, there have been jars given to me and alot are the Del Monte orchard select jars. The problem is that only the mandarin orange jar is the standard 70/400 mason jar lid, which is compatible with the regular-mouth 2-piece rings and lids that we use in the US. The regular mouth jars have the 70mm mouth on them, and the wide mouth jars have an 86mm mouth.
After doing some extensive searching online, at packageworld.com there is a little article about Del Monte changing jar sizes. Turns out those wierd-size mouth jars are a 75mm mouth. I think they are a 75/450 deep skirted lid. Even after searching thru Crown Cork & Seal's website (alleged supplier for these lids), it looks like the 75mm lid is just not available, probably due to a contractual exclusivity clause. Moreover, Owens-Brockway, aka Owens-Illinois, who was stated to be the manufacturer for this custom-made jar, has no listing of that size nor of its corresponding lid. That just sucks!
However, I did find something interesting while doing research. It seems that Canadians have been using jars with the 78mm "gem mouth" for generations and there was quite a kerfuffle over the last manufacturer d/c'ing the gem mouth line. Ultimately, they have been brought back, and they are available on Amazon.com. They are a bit more money than standard sizes and a little more money to ship thru customs from Canada to the US. Hopefully the 78mm lids will work satisfactorily on the 75mm jars. I am crossing my fingers.
So, with that said, I am expecting a shipment of a pack of gem rings and gem lids in the next week or so. I don't know if they will work but sure hope like hell they do! Those 24 oz Del Monte jars are the right size for so many things, plus the mouth on them is a nice compromise between large and regular. They are beautiful jars and it is a shame to throw them away. I'm becoming obsessed with finding a solution to this problem.
So when these lids arrive, I'll test them out and let you know if they work. I sure hope they do. The supply for these jars is pretty steady and might as well take advantage of it.

Clyde.

I finally threw out the one Del Monte jar I had. The standard flat fit just fine, it's the ring that was a smidgen too big. The No 63 lid mentioned in a post above is very much smaller than a standard flat. I have several boxes of 63's They are quite old, but still seem to be in perfect shape. There are several food items on grocery shelves that take the 63 lid, but I don't save these jars, as they are of many sizes. The store lids on these jars are almost always white with the CT lid and about the size of a small olive jar lid.

Whatever the case, the Mason name and its specific design and standardised measurements is not something most commercial companies want to use for their glass jar products. It may be due to royalties that have to be paid to the original designers. Today, commercailly jarred products tend to have jars that are thinner glass and lack the proper tempering to prevent cracking during a long heat cycle. I would stick with regular canning jars. My last use of glass mayo jars was a disaster. They did work with Ball lids, but the glass cracked up the whole side of these jars. Nasty to clean out all that pickling brine from the canner.

I have had good luck with this Italian company's lids. They carry 3 sizes, all of which are different (both smaller and larger) than the 2 "Mason" sizes used in the U.S.: 56 mm (2-1/4 in); 70 mm (2-3/4 in); and 86 mm (3-1/2 in).

http://www.vasiquattrostagioni.it/english/Quattro_stagioni_linea.htm

Very curious as to whether Clyde's jars fit the Gem lids!

Here in the part of Canada where I live, the same regular and wide mouth jar lids that are standard in the U.S. are the common ones, but you do see Gem lids for sale occasionally, and I understand they are quite common in the Prairies. Yes, there was quite a kerfuffle when the company that now owns both Ball/Kerr and the Canadian Bernardin stopped making them --- folks who had hundreds of Gem-sized jars were pretty cheesed off!

I have about three Gem jars that I got at a garage sale, and have never used because I haven't had lids, but one day I'll get some and give them a try. (Clyde, if they don't fit your jars, maybe I can buy some from you!)

Zabby

Clyde: did the lids work for the Del Monte 24 oz jars? I'm sure glad to know someone else is as obsessive about finding lids!
Laurel
re: jan 23 2009 post

The real problem is as 'I' see it is that people keep on buying products from manufacturers that are changing the way they are packaging (Using non-standard jars, rings & lids) and we are letting them! Boycott them! Stop buying anything that is not reusable. Demand that the manufacturers use glass and not plastic. When their sales fall flat their bottom line will too. They can either go back to standard, reusable packaging or go bankrupt. They went the route of non standard to save money and to yield from pressure from the people that make canning jars. BOYCOTT!!!

Oh goody, another troll who drags up a perfectly forum-relevant 5 year old discussion to rant about boycotts.

Dave

I don't think they were ranting, they were recommending a technique to influence manufacturers. Boycotts work sometimes, but not often. What might help is to write to the companies, but we already know they changed on purpose to thwart home canners, so doubt we'd have much luck. I reread this thread and also want to say ksrogers must be doing something wrong to have so many mayo jars break. I have used them a lot and had only two break in about 25 years of canning. It is important to have a rack or even a folded cloth under the jars to keep them from rattling incessantly against the bottom of the canning kettle. For the Classico jars, I use them with the lids they come with. Works well. My sister saves them for me and I bring them home in my luggage when I visit her.

Well, I miss ksrogers and his cranky-pants commentary. I hope he is well.

Only read the first half dozen of the old comments and they were related to Classico changing the lid size. So here you go: Classico jars are back!

No need to boycott.

Rodney

I have several delmonte jars that I would like to reuse to do some canning. None of the ball lids fit. They are either to large or to small. Anyone have any ideas. If not I guess I'll just toss them out. Seems like a waste

My husband suggested that because their name is on the jar they may not want people to reuse the due to some type liability they think they may have to defend. The world being what it is and everyone looking to sue for what ever goes wrong in their lives.

yes, the delmonte jars are different sizes. Some even have deep lug lids instead of threaded lids. either use them for leftovers with the original lids or for over runs from canning recipes to store in the fridge or for dry storage or anything but shelf stable canning.

They do make nice drinking jars, if you're so inclined.