10 minute BWB sounds awfully short for a spaghetti sauce - even plain tomatoes. What is the source of the recipe? Can you post a link or type it out?

It's typed out in my canning binder, but I can't remember who I got it from now. Here's the recipe...
Spaghetti Sauce Recipe
Makes 4-5 quart jars

16 cups tomatoes - blanch, peel, and blend
3 12 oz cans of tomato paste
4 chopped yellow onions
2 large green peppers
4 cloves of garlic pressed
3 t oregano (dried)
3 t basil (dried)
3 t Italian seasoning
1 t parsley (fresh if you can)
2 T salt
3 T sugar

Saute onions and peppers in a tablespoon of oil in a pot.

Add the remaining ingredients and let simmer for at least 2 hours - I usually simmer for 5-6 hours.

Using hot jars - add 2 T of bottled lemon juice to each jar and then fill with hot spaghetti sauce. (The lemon juice ensures the acidity is correct to prevent bacteria growth)

Hot water bath for 10 minutes.

That isn't a tested canning recipe.

1. I'm not sure 1 Tbsp of oil isn't a problem, oil is usually prohibited in canning.

2. Water bath time for plain tomato sauce (no vegetables) is 45 minutes for quarts, not 10.

3. That's an awful lot of low-acid vegetables. Probably at least 4C of onions, and another 4C of peppers? Plus the garlic and fresh parsley. 2T of lemon juice isn't going to make it safe to BWB.

The closest approved recipe I see right now (without digging through books) is NCHFP Spaghetti Sauce Without Meat. That calls for 30lb of tomatoes, only 1C of onions, 1C of peppers, 1 lb of mushrooms (optional), 5 cloves of garlic and 4 Tbsp parsley to make 9 pints (though processing time is given for quarts as well). Processing time for that is 25 minutes at 10psi.

There may be an approved salsa recipe with that ratio of low-acid veggies to tomatoes, but it's going to call for a lot more acid (edited to add - "to BWB").

Why don't you try making the NCHFP recipe (adjusting the dried spices, salt and sugar to your taste) instead? Or freeze yours.

Here is a link that might be useful: Spaghetti sauce NCHFP

This post was edited by ajsmama on Wed, Aug 20, 14 at 13:05

I agree that there is no way that is safe for BWB canning. And it isn't even safe for only 10 min. of pressure canning. 25 min. minimum @10-11 lbs if you are going to use that untested recipe. Longer would be even better.

Length of cooking time before putting in the jars is not relevant to safety as just cooking doesn't get it hot enough.

Dave

Dave - do you think it would be OK at say 25 min, 15 psi with all those peppers and onions?

No reason to use 15 lbs unless required by altitude. Onions and peppers aren't the real issue. The unknown density created by all the tomato paste is the real issue.

As I said above minimum 25 min at 10-11 lbs. IF one was going to use the recipe. And the more I think about it 35 min like tomato sauce would be better, 45 min as for tomato paste would be even better, and 75-90 min like for mixed vegetables would be even better.

The 90 min for quarts would be the only thing that could make it a guaranteed safe recipe since it has never been tested.

Dave

Since you said longer was better I was wondering if higher pressure/temperature was better. Like doing Crushed Tomatoes for 10 minutes at 15 psi instead of 15 min at 10 psi.

I really don't think I'd add the tomato paste at all, or cook for that long. I was surprised you said that recipe could be canned for that short a time, or at all.

Tomatoes with Okra or Zucchini calls for 7 lbs of tomatoes and 2.5 lbs of okra or squash for 9 pints and processing time for that is 35 min at 10 psi. Of course the 90 minutes as for Mixed Vegetables would be safe but how would it taste? The peppers and onions would disintegrate.

I really think the NCHFP with seasonings adjusted to taste is the way to go rather than guessing at processing times for this recipe though.

I was surprised you said that recipe could be canned for that short a time, or at all.

I didn't say the recipe should be canned. Said several times it is an untested, unapproved one. But could it be canned? Sure, people may can anything they want and many do. And the pH isn't the issue with it, the density is.

The OP asked what a possible PC processing time would be if it was PC'd rather than BWB. We pointed out the 25 min called for by NCHFP's Spaghetti Sauce, the closest approved recipe to it and I said that was the minimum time but more time would be better.

What the OP does with it from there is up to her/him but I in no way gave it a stamp of approval. Any untested, unapproved recipe is always done at your own risk.

I was wondering if higher pressure/temperature was better. Like doing Crushed Tomatoes for 10 minutes at 15 psi instead of 15 min at 10 psi.

That is trying to generalize from one specific set of instructions. Those guidelines are specific to that set of instructions only. There is no reference chart that establishes a consistent correlation between time and pressure so we can't assume that a higher pressure automatically compensates for what may be a too short time or that 5 or 10 mins more would be enough time. It would be guesswork.

Dave

Longer is better, and after you said that I figured higher pressure was better too, wanted your opinion. Another close recipe gave 10 minutes longer. It's all guesswork, and I'm not comfortable with any of it. But it's up to the OP to decide - I don't even know if she has a real pressure canner or only a cooker, has tested the gauge, has a weight set or only 15 lb regulator (another reason I brought up the 15 psi for 25 minutes) - but she's got some info to think about now.

I don't even know if she has a real pressure canner or only a cooker, has tested the gauge, has a weight set or only 15 lb regulator (another reason I brought up the 15 psi for 25 minutes) - but she's got some info to think about now.

All good points and questions. Hoped to have a reply back from the OP by now.

Dave

She probably ran screaming from the computer, regretting that she ever asked! ;-)

Haha - I almost ran, but i'm learning so much! I wish i'd get e-mail notices when there's a response on here, Your wisdom is priceless, but I have to keep coming back to the forum and searching for my thread to see if there's activity.
I do have a Presto canner...the 23 quart size. It's got a dial gauge - i'm taking it in tomorrow to have it checked at our local extension office!
Ugh - I don't want to think about my untested salsa and tomato soup recipes...
Here's what I did with the spaghetti sauce recipe. Since I already had the batch in the works by the time I found this site to post my question, I finished it. First, I pressure canned pint jars for 25 minutes at 11psi. Then I processed a few quart jars for 35 minutes at 11 psi.

Dave - you said the density created by the tomato paste was the issue. Would this recipe be in any better shape if the tomato paste was added after canning, during preparation? Is the ph not so much a concern because of the lemon juice added?
So how do you know if a recipe has been tested? I have the Ball Home Preserving book but also a number of "handed-down" canning recipes as well, none of which are probably tested. Is there a way to test a recipe? Of course, it's gotta be more complicated than that.

ajsmama - freezing would be a good option for this recipe because i've made it before and really like it. I have a hard time making a "stock" recipe and altering the spices to taste, especially when I found this one that IS the taste i'm looking for. I'll have to give the NCHFP recipe a try though.

I wish i'd get e-mail notices

Check your junk email box for them. Your mail program sends them there unless you tell it otherwise.

Would this recipe be in any better shape if the tomato paste was added after canning, during preparation?

Sure, much better. You'd still need a minimum of 20-25 min. in the PC (based on the Stewed Tomatoes recipe in BBB).

Is the ph not so much a concern because of the lemon juice added?

In part but also the pressure canning makes a big difference. No way this is safe for BWB caning.. But pH is still a concern because the ratio of tomatoes to onions/peppers is so low. Tomatoes are at least borderline acidic, the onions and peppers are very low acid and there is no way to know if the lemon juice is enough to off-set their pH.

Bottom line it is a personal recipe so using it or trying to modify it for safety is all guesswork.

As for testing and sources of approved recipes - tons of discussions here about all that. There have always been accepted and tested sources for canning and personal recipes have never been one of those sources. Ball books and NCHFP are the foundation sources that all reputable canning recipes are based on - all tested repeatedly. We have lists of additional books here too.

The only thing hand-me-down and personal recipes have going for them is that no one has died from them yet - that we know of. For some folks that is enough. For most of us it isn't nearly enough. :)

Think of it this way. The purpose of canning foods is safely preserving the basic foods while in season. It is NOT having ready-to-eat meals. You sauce recipe can easily and quickly be made fresh by canning plain tomatoes and tomato paste and having frozen or dried onions, peppers, and garlic on hand. But trying to mix all those things together and then add oil and then seal it in a vacuum jar, an anaerobic environment, without first insuring the proper density, pH, and processing time is an accident just waiting to happen.

But the choice is always yours to make.

Dave

As long as you don't object to buying green bell peppers and onions in the grocery store during the off-season, there's no reason to add them (or so many) to the canned sauce. If you like them soft not crisp then freeze them and add them during prep. As Dave said, the purpose of canning is not to have ready-made meals (though it's nice, and nicer when the power goes out and you're cooking on a grill or propane burner or hotplate/microwave with a generator), it's to preserve the home-grown or farmer's market produce at its peak. And to know what's going into the jar.

Canned plum tomatoes from the grocery store aren't bad for cooking with though.

The NCHFP recipe isn't that far off from yours. There may be other tested recipes for spaghetti sauce you may like, try the Ball Complete book or Small Batch Preserving (you can always double a batch). A lot of people here like the Multi-purpose Tomato Sauce (I think Carol - readinglady - posted it in the Leesa thread). I didn't care for the taste of the basil after a while in the Chunky Tomato Basil sauce. Just look for one that's similar to yours, and if you want more low-acid ingredients just add them when you open the jar.

Oh, and we're still guessing on the processing time of your recipe, but personally I would have not canned anything, even a tested recipe, at less than 15 psi if the gauge hadn't been tested and all I had was the 1-piece regulator that came with the Presto. Do yourself a favor and buy the 50332 weight set - 15% off at acehardware.com today, and I also saw it on eBay for $12.

I ordered a weight set for my canner. It keeps the pressure more constant than adjusting the heat continually...is that correct? If so,hallelujah! I will have to check into your links and suggestions on this site. I appreciate all the advice!!

It keeps the pressure more constant than adjusting the heat continually...is that correct?

Yes plus it is far more accurate than the gauge and it eliminates the need to have the gauge tested annually. With the weights you can just ignore the gauge.

Back to your recipe, please do give lots of thought to just freezing it rather than trying to can it. That way you can have the exact taste you prefer and have no safety concerns as you would with canning it.

Dave