Wow - I had not heard of using the Pickle Crisp as a presoak but I went to Ball's website and you are correct! They don't mention adding additional Pickle Crisp to the jars when packing so I would leave it out for the fear of overdoing it. Let us know how they turn out!

Malon

Bloomfielder, thank you for the info on the changes to their site. A month or so ago I was on the phone with them asking for their input on why the sweet pickles were turning out such a mess. They called me quite a few times to find out exact info on when I was adding the pickle crisp, how much, etc.
After I gave them all my info they never did call me back to give me any advice on what I could do different.

Every jar of sweets I made were garbage because of the shriveled up pickles. The I started making Linda Lou's and you honestly can't ask for a crisper pickle.
I hope you post back and let us know how they turned out :)

Kind of off topic. I have never used Pickle Crisp. I still use pickling lime. Is there a reason why I am not supposed to use it??

Tiger - nope, no major reason not to use lime. Pickle Crisp was originally advertised as "quicker and easier" than soaking in lime because you just added a little bit to each jar prior to processing and skipped the whole lime soak. Now with the process of soaking in Pickle Crisp, I don't know what the advantage would be other than Ball will sale more Pickle Crisp. You're right back to a pre-soak.

Malon

The advantage I found to the PC pre soak is unlike lime you just drain and rinse, not like the rinse, rinse, rinse it takes to get lime off ... overall much less mess and hassle. But then in my quest to overcome my "Canning Everest" last year (finally making decent dill pickles) I've started to overnight ice water soak ALL my cukes before processing, so for me dumping in a package of PC is no big deal ...

Hi,
Ball Pickle Crisp (aka. calcium chloride) is NOT recommended for a presoak. Its not pickling lime, and contains no lime to help retain texture. Its added to vinegar based brines to help reduce the breakdown of the cucumbers when exposed to vinegar acids for a long time. Right now, Mrs. Wages still makes and sells pickling lime and its used as a presoak for cucumbers only. Because I have done a lengthy search for the current Ball Pickle Crisp product, I found that is currently out of stock from many locations. The site below carries it in bulk sizes and is a lot cheaper. The only concern is that its a very aggressive moisture absorber and will liquify in a very short time even if exposed to air. Resealing its storage container is very necessary. You only add 3/4 of a teaspoon to pints and 1 1/2 teaspoons to quarts prior to to filling the tighly packed jars of cucumbers with a vinegar salt brine. If you presoak with Pickle Crisp, you might find that it gives you an odd taste if the amounts used are higher than recommended. Pickling lime is mixed with water only, and even though it settles to the bottom, the cukes get soaked in it for only 24 hours and rinsed off very well before they are cut up or packed whole in jars. Always cut off a small area on each end of the cukes prior to soaking or packing/canning.

I found that if the heat processing time is reduced to a max of about 5-10 minutes, and a steam canner is used instead of a water bath, the end result is a far crisper pickle. For the most crispness, a fresh packed half sours make for a really enjoyable crunchy pickle. Some of my nearly dried mammoth dill seed heads are now producing smaller side shoots with new blossoms and greens. Because of the high acid levels, there is very little risk for botulism in a pickle.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bulk foods

Hi ksrogers,
I have two boxes of pickle crisp- one was bought in May this year and the other at the end of August. On the back of the one from May it has, "can be used in the place of lime for presoak". On the newer box that whole sentence is gone.

I'm almost positive I read it on the Ball website earlier this summer but I can't find it anywhere now. I wonder why the boxes have two different information panels on them? I've never used it as a pre-soak because to me if that was necessary then I might as well use the lime since it's cheaper. Adding it to the jars sure is a lot easier and a whole lot less time consuming then dealing with the lime pre-soak though.

Did you read somewhere that you shouldn't pre-soak with pickle crisp?

Good, bad or indifferent, here is the link

Here is a link that might be useful: Recipe (from the manufacturer) with PC pre-soak

Ken!!!!! Welcome back old friend - good to see you chiming in again. I was surprised that they were now recommending their product as a presoak but did a search of Ball's website and found the recipe that Bloomfielder just posted a link to. What a way to boost sales, huh?

I've also found that you can buy food grade calcium chloride at beer and winemaking shops for even cheaper than the link you provided. I agree that it does absorb moisture quickly so I vacuum seal it in a pint jar with my Foodsaver.

Malon

Straight from their website:
Pickle CrispÂ
Ball 100% Natural ® Pickle Crisp ensures your pickles don't turn out wimpy. Use as a presoak in place of pickling lime or add directly to the jar of any fresh pack pickles!

Linda Lou, I knew I saw it somewhere on their website before but couldn't find it yesterday. I have to admit other than the company making more money off the product I really don't have any idea why they would have you use two whole bags in a presoak when putting a small amount in the jar works.

Unless it has something to do with the pickles being sweet and not dill.

Thanks, I needed a big break from the GW as I was just spending way too much time and wasn't getting anything else done. Internet can be very additive! I always laugh when I see that Rosanne TV show where her TV sister Jackie has a serious withdrawal problem when the plug was pulled on her computer when she spent several days on and internet session.
What Pickle Crisp actually is, is a very strong alkali. It could probably be used as a presoak, but you would need a lot more per gallon of water, than what is used in a quart jar of pickles. When its added to an acid based brine, it doesn't neutralize the acid in the vinegar, its just adds an alkali which tends to 'buffer' the acid, and that helps to keep the vinegar from breaking down the food fibers as quickly. The pickling lime is a different source of a strong alkali as its lye based instead. In any case, the lime needs to be rinsed off very well, but even for that, if any does remain, it usually settles to the bottom of the jar. It is caustic enough that it does discolor even stainless steel. I do think its Balls' way to increase sales of the product, but as someone has noticed, its even used in commercial canning of tomatoes to help them hold their shape. Buying in bulk as a food grade product is a lot easier to use. I do have a Food Saver here and it has proven invaluable for keeping dried herbs fresher as well as resealing plastic bags. Now, I got check out the local Wine Hobby store as I also need some more acid blend granules. I add an acid blend (malic, tarteric and citric) to my jellies and it cuts down on the excessive sweetness and gives jellies and jams a nice tart taste again without making them cloyingly sweet.

The Pickle Crisp will not 'sweeten' a pickle of any kind, but can also be used in any pickle making be it sweet, sour, or spicy. Using more than the recommended amount per quart will give an off flavor to the pickles unless they are in a heavily spiced brine.

Hi Ksrogers,
When I was talking about why they suggest pre-soaking a "sweet pickle", I didn't mean to help the sweetness. I know pickle crisp doesn't add flavor.

For some reason when making my pickles I had different results for sweets than I did with any other type. First when adding the pickle crisp to a jar of dill, sours, or hots, there was a sizzling, hissing type sound and the pickle crisp seemed to boil and disolve instantly.

Now with sweet pickles...the pickle crisp would not make a sound and wouldn't disolve...it just laid there like a clump of white power. I know the liquid for the sweet was as hot as the liquid for the rest, so that didn't cause it.

By the next day all the sweets were shriveled and shrunken and nasty looking. Never happened to the others. So I was meaning that maybe they are suggesting that a pre-soak is necessary with sweet pickles to prevent this from happening.
I just figured (probably wrong) that maybe all the sugar in sweet pickle liquid is somehow preventing the pickle crisp from disolving and doing its job.

Right you are. It changes the viscosity and will affect the way that the calcium dissolves. Shriveling up might be from too strong a vinegar. When I make sweet brines I use a combination of apple cider vinegar and white, along with water. Now that I use Splenda, the sweetness is much greater than when I used sugar. Also, when I add Splenda its a LOT less in a recipe. When I made some sour vinegar pickles a few years ago, I limed them first. Then poured in boiling 100% white vinegar along with a dash of alum and turmeric. The alum gave them some pucker, and with all that vinegar, they too shriveled up quite a lot even after the long liming time. Sometimes shriveling is caused by cukes that are not as fresh.

Well, you gave me something else to think about lol. I could have used the white vinegar instead of cider vinegar if the recipe called for it. I generally use whatever vinegar is called for. I know the pickles were fresh, right from my garden. If I'm not mistaken I think I saw somewhere on here (after I threw away batches and batches of sweet pickles), that you can use either vinegar as long as it's 4 or 5%. I had planned to try a few different things next year with making sweet pickles.

But now that I've had Linda Lou's sweets..I'll probably just stick with those. I like those recipes that I've tried and taste good! :)

Going to pickle about 10 pounds of beets. I'll be using spices like celery seeds, mustard seeds, dill, coriander, clove, cinnamon, allspice, and even a little bayleaf. I usually boil, then simmer the vinegar with the bunch of spices for about an hour. Then I pour out the liquid through a sieve and toss out the spices. This also leaves a bit of sediment, which usually falls to the bottom and is also avoided. Then, when I fill the jars with partially cooked, peeled and sliced beets, along with slices of onions, I will add the brine. The brine is sweetened and salted as well. I always taste the brine before its poured into the jars. The last time I made these, I used a package of Bread & Butter pickle mix, along with a package of sweet mixed as a base for the flavorings. I also add some fresh whole celery seed and mustard seeds to each jar.

Okay, we are waaaaay off topic here. How about a new thread for general picking discussions? It's tedious to keep getting e-mails that are unrelated to the original question. Thanks.

mind if i bump this back up?my quest is to make crisp pickles this year--just fed my last jar of last years to the chickens.i was told that a steamer bath is no longer considered safe, because you couldnt insure the entire jar heated.and that you shouldnt heat to boiling in your water bath--only to 180 on certain recipes.please help-- i'm a old lady that USED to make crisp pickles before you had to heat them at all. i have already bought pickle crisp, pickling lime--and revised my pickle crocks--help me make crisp pickles--especially dills, and baby ones.

The steam canner is just fine for a high acid pickle. Its not as long a heat process as a BWB. I use a steam canner for most all of my pickles based on vinegar, salt and spices. Nothing bad as far ans any food poisoning can survive in a highly acidic pickle brine, so safety is not really an issue here. The longer a cuke is exposed to heat, the quicker it becomes mush. Pickle Crisp helps raise the alkalinity of the brine as its calcium based. I would consider it as being a 'sort of' neutralizer for harsh vinegar, but it only affects one of vinegars natural properties. When I make my pickles, dill, sweet, B&B, etc, I use my steam canner and process only five to ten minutes, and the jars are very hot. The canner needs a few minutes to get up to the boiling point, but thats when I start the time. If it were in a BWB, it would take 20 minutes or more to get to boiling, and by that time, the cukes would be cooked way too much. The jars get cold packed with the veggies, and boiling brine is poured in. I add the Pickle Crisp before pouring the boiling brine into the jars. The ONLY thing that I make that has no heat process is the very thin skinned pepperoncini, which also gets a vinegar salt brine, but there, each pepper gets a hole pierced in each, then they get put into a vacuum vessel and the air is removed. The brine is sucked into the insides of the peppers. After a few minutes, these are now filled with the brine, and are packed in jars with more brine. I use a Food Saver vacuum device that slips onto the jars top, with a Ball lid underneath. The air is pumped out, and the lid gets pulled onto the jar. Every single jar (over 50) I made last summer has been great, with absolutely no spoilage of any kind. I would never do this vacuum process with anything else, including the much denser cucumber. Don't be so afraid to pickle cukes with vinegar based brines, as they are one of the most easiest to can, are very impervious to contamination or spoilage. People here seem to sometimes go overboard when it comes to food safety. If they reason out the method and ingredients used, they would also soon realize that salt and vinegar are two of the most important components for protecting foods from spoilage.

ceresone, although some here use steam canners, the USDA has not approved them as a recommended canning procedure, which is why you have been told they are not safe. There have been long arguments about their relative safety, with no apparent resolution. Frankly, I don't see how a steam canner could make a difference, if it heats to the required safe temperature the pickles would still be "cooked" and therefore, soft.

Why have they not been approved as a safe method of canning? I don't really know. It could be simply because of lack of testing appropriate testing, it could be that they didn't meet certain standards, it could be a zillion things, but they still are "not recommended". As for the safety, you'll have to make your own decision. I think the risks of pickles in the steam canner are approximately the same as the risk in my Grandma's old "hot pack open kettle" method, so if I chose to take that particular risk I'd just do it the old way rather than buy a gadget that I only felt comfortable processing pickles and jam in.

I've never used the "pasteurization" method, either, heating to 180 but not boiling, although there was another poster here who tried that and said it worked well.

I make lousy pickles, they are always soft and mushy. Pickle crisp doesn't help. Neither does alum or grape leaves. I make pickles immediately after picking the cucumbers from my own garden. I've soaked in ice water, used smaller cucumbers, planted different varieties. Linda Lou's sweet pickles were the only ones that managed to stay crunchy at all through processing.

So, good luck. I've tried every single trick and my pickles are still awful and the Claussen company doesn't have to worry about going out of business.

Annie

Sorry, but the steam canner is not safe to use. It requires a certain time in a boiling water bath to bring the internal temp. of the contents of the jar up to a temperature which destroys the enzymes and bacteria in foods. That doesn't happen in the steam canner, especially if you don't process for the full length of time. That is why the processing time is what it is. It does take that long to insure the safety. Cucumbers are low acid veggies and need that length of heat treatment.
Yes, it is only certain recipes in which it is safe to use the 180 degree bath.
Pickle crisp works well. I have been using it. Still, the best thing is to use freshly picked cucumbers. Pickling lime is not really being used anymore since Pickle Crisp came out. The Pickle Crisp is the same thing, calcium chloride, used in the commercial industry.
Alum does nothing for quick pack pickles and can actually make them softer. It only works for fermented pickles.
You can soak your cukes in ice water, too, and that can help.
This is the recipe I use. They are crisp. If it seems too tart, add a pinch of sugar, do not decrease the vinegar water ratio. You need at least half of a pickle brine to be 5 percent acididy vinegar to water ratio.
Kosher Dill (Heinz Recipe)

4 lbs pickling cukes
14 cloves garlic, peeled & split
1/4 cup salt
3 cups distilled or apple cider vinegar 5% acidity
3 cups water
12-14 sprigs fresh dill weed
28 peppercorns

Wash cucumbers; cut in half lengthwise. Combine garlic and next 3 ingredients; heat to boiling. Remove garlic and place 4 halves into each clean jar, then pack cucumbers, adding 2 sprigs of dill and 4 peppercorns. Pour hot vinegar solution over cucumbers to within 1/2 inch of top. Process 10 minutes in BWB. Makes 6-7 pints.

I don't see how a person can "go overboard" when it comes to a person's health and safety. And, I do realize and have "reasoned it out" that it takes more than just salt and vinegar for safety... since I am trained in food safety.

Ceresone, if you want a fermented pickle recipe, many people have tried a "Clausen" type recipe and like it well. I can post it for you, if you want it.

So glad you answered, linda lou. Please post the fermented recipe. This year, I'd determined to make various types of GOOD , Crisp, pickles. I'm going to plant 3 different types of pickle cucumbers this year too, to see if that makes a difference. lol--I'll be 70 next year, I'd like to remembered, at least, for good pickles. Thanks Again.

Fermented Dill Pickles  Refrigerated "Clausen" Type

1 Gallon Jar
Pickling Cucumbers
12 Fresh Dill Flower heads, or
2 Tbsp Dried dill weed and
2 Tbsp. Dried dill seed
10 to 12 Cloves Garlic
6 to 8 Peppercorns
1/4 Cup Vinegar
1/2 Cup Salt
1 1/2 Quarts Water

In 1 gallon jar add pickling cucumbers Rinse but do not wash the cucumbers. Add Dill flower heads or dried dill weed and seed, garlic, peppercorns, and vinegar. Dissolve salt in water and add to jar. Fill jar the remaining way with water. Add weight to keep cucumbers under brine.

Fermentation sequence
1. Clear brine  no cloudiness for 1 to 3 days
2. Cloudy brine with gas formation, 2-3 days
3. Cloudy brine  no gas formation, 5 to 6 days

Pickles ready to eat after 10-11 days.
Refrigerate pickles if you do not want to process them.

To process the pickles
Fill clean, sterilized quart jars with pickles to within 1/2inch of the top. Wipe, seal, and process in a hot water bath for 15 minutes. Remove and place on towel in a draft free area. Let jars stand for 12 hours. Label and date. Store in a dark, cool area.

As Annie has mentioned, the FDA has not certifed the steam canners. To say that they are not safe is an incorrect reply. For something as quick to recover in heat temperature, and all the testing I personally did some time ago, I feel that the steam canner is perfect for all of my pickling. I used very accurate thermal probes placed throughout the quar jars in the canner, and after the water returns to a boil, within two minutes, the temps rose back up to almost 210 degrees. This hardly is grounds for an unsafe statement. The better phrase that the FDA has made is: "Steam canners have not been approved by the FDA, as further testing is necessary". This was a quote from the FDA, even after some universities did their own studies on steam canners and positive results. As I always stress, you must NOT use a steam canner when processing foods low in acid. Any canner, except a pressure canner, should not be used for low acid foods. BWB canners, take just too long to get back up to a boiling point. Steam canners do have a slight pressure inside, due to the area exposed to heat, and very small vent holes in the bottom of the domed lid. The force of the stream of steam is such that if it were a pressure canner, the pressure would be a couple of pounds, yes, not enough to get it to 240 degrees, but sufficient enough to apply sufficient heat to filled jars to make then reach almost 210 degrees very quickly, about 6 times faster than a BWB.

Suggest you do a test, if you dare, make a jar of pickles, pour in a boiling vinegar based brine, cap it, and let it sit at room temps for a month or two. Check its seal and appearance, give it six months more and check again. I seriously doubt if you would see any fermentation, discoloring, gassing, mold, nasty smell/taste, or any other indication of spoilage. Yes, I agree that safety is the biggest concern, but when we are working with an acid like vinegar, there is little worry of it spoiling anything added to it.

Another alternative for crisp pickles is to make refirgerator types. The salt brine, half sour remains crisp and crunchy months after being made. My last batch was done back in September 2005, and I have a few left in a half gallon jar in my fridge. They are almost as crisp as when they were first pickled.

I'm gonna go with Ken here. His test methods convinced me that the steam canner was safe for high acid foods and for jams and jelly.

I was a chemical lab texh for over 30 years and his test methods would have been accepted in any lab I ever worked at.

YMMV

Well, smokey, it nice that it's good enough for you, but you know my mantra. Everyone has to have all the information and then make their own choice. Were you there to check the methods or the equipment? Were there any controls? Were the appropriate adjustments made for calibrations in the thermometer for the sea level, etc? Plus, how could a themometer be placed into a sealed jar? If it wasn't sealed, then I would think that the heat would be able to more easily penetrate.

Nope, I need more than some guy in his kitchen with a couple of thermometers to make me feel comfortable with that particular process.

And my first question still hangs there. I bring my BWB to a boil, then add my jars. I don't "bring it up to a boil" after addin those jars or I'd be cooking pickles for half an hour or so. If the BWB is heated to boiling, which for sake of argument is 212F, (although we've had the sea level etc. argument) and the steam canner actually heats to 210F as Ken states, why would those pickles be any less "cooked" than the ones in a water bath canner? If they are cooked at the same temperature for the same amount of time, they should be approximately the same amount of "cooked", and therefore, equally soft. So how can they stay "crunchy" if pickles in a water bath won't?

Annie

Forum members absolutely can determine for themselves those practices that are acceptable to them and those that aren't.

I also agree that there's a considerable difference between "unsafe" and "unproven."

However, there are many inexperienced home food preservers who visit or join this forum. I think they should always be apprised of those processes which meet current FDA standards and those which don't. They're entitled to "full disclosure."

Carol

Carol, I agree with you completely. Newbies should always follow approved methods.

Annie, Ken used thermocouples not thermometers. Thermocouples are easily sealed in a jar with no leaks.

But, enough of this, everyone to their own methods. I even process jams in jars with "lug" type lids.

Yes, they were thermocouples. I even destroyed the domed lid of my steam canner by drilling a whole dead center of the lid, so the leads could be fed through from the top, I even got some bad burns when the water started to spirt out the hole. The lowest and slowest area of a quart jar to come up to the boiling 200+ temp was about 2 inches below the lid of a quart jars, in the center of a batch of 7 jars, six in a circle with one in the center. The boiling water in the canner was about 1.5 inches from the bottom of the jars, and after almost 10 minutes after it started to go back to a boil, the outside, and inside temps reached almost the same temps, with about 3 degrees difference. Once the heat was shut off, everything had been at the same temps, then the domed lid was removed. Heavy water condensation builds up on the now concave lids inside the raised edges of the rings, so they have to be gently tipped before removal. I used seven different locations, 3 inside the center jars at different levels, one at the top dead center, one at the top edge in two places and, one at the base of the jars dead center.

Which still doesn't explain how a person can ostensibly heat pickles to 210F for 10+ minutes and have them stay crisp and uncooked when I heat mine to approximately the same heat for the same amount of time and mine are "cooked" and thus, soft.

If the theory holds that the steam canner gets just as hot as the BWB, why doesn't it "cook" the pickles?

Annie

I have a great idea ... why doesn't someone start a steam vs bwb thread and you guys can continue the "discussion" to your hearts content. (And those of us who aren't interested don't have to waste our time reading it OVER and OVER and OVER in 57 other threads).

This debate only started on this thread because a participant specifically ASKED about the safety of steam canners. So, for participating in the hi-jacking of your thread, I apologize. Since there isn't much else going on here right now, I didn't realize it would be a big problem.

However, this is a public forum and that's the nature of the beast. I'll continue to respond when the question gets asked, but I will try to be more careful about where they are posted.

Annie

Bloomfeilder, my apoligies to you, i'm afraid i was the one that hijacked your thread. it was brought up in a search i did on making crisp pickles, and i didnt notice the date,again, i apoligize.

Hi Everyone!
I am new to the GardenWeb and Harvest Forum. I think it's wonderful opp for sharing tips, ideas and recipes. This thread on the Pickle Crisp was my first exposure when looking for source and more info on PC. The recipe I was planning to use came from Ball's website and calls for a PC soak. After seeing many cite LindaLou's Sweet Pickle Chunks, I had to find out more. I've been making Alton Brown's "AB's B 'n' B's", with good success. But You have all inspired me...I just HAD to try making LLSPC's.

Well, I'm on Day 3 of the syrup and so far they look and taste great. But this IS a thread about PC...so here are a few questions I have about it.

Thanks to ksrogers! I bought calcium chloride thru BulkFoods.com. The Ball recipe I am going to use says to use 2 pouches in 2 gallons of water for the 24 hour soak. I assumed I would measure out the CaCl in the same measurements as PC, (which comes as 26 g per pouch, 3 pouches per box). But the bottle from Bulk Foods says 1 tsp. per quart of liquid for a 0.5% solution. This seems a lot less. So I'm only guessing, but are they referring to its use as additive to the jar?

LindaLou, how much PC do you add to your Sweet Pickle Chunks before processing? Should I use the same amount of the bulk CaCl?

Thanks, everyone...I appreciate your help!

I used the amount listed on the PC box, I think it is 3/4 tsp. per pint in the sweet pickles.
I hope you like them, too. Everyone is still raving about them. Some who had never made pickles before and some folks who said they could not make a decent pickle are now making these with great success.
They do taste good to eat before they are processed ! We start sampling the second day of the syrup around here.
This year I got the bulk stuff, too, so I only added 1/4 tsp. to my dills. I have not opened any yet since it has not been a month yet. I added the lesser amount because it did seem to be more concentrated according to how much you would use for a presoak.

I used the amount listed on the PC box, I think it is 3/4 tsp. per pint in the sweet pickles.
I hope you like them, too. Everyone is still raving about them. Some who had never made pickles before and some folks who said they could not make a decent pickle are now making these with great success.
They do taste good to eat before they are processed ! We start sampling the second day of the syrup around here.
This year I got the bulk stuff, too, so I only added 1/4 tsp. to my dills. I have not opened any yet since it has not been a month yet. I added the lesser amount because it did seem to be more concentrated according to how much you would use for a presoak.

My boxes of Pickle Crisp never mentioned it to be used as a presoak with water. It is an edible product in small quantities. I use it only when the jars are filled with the brine. Right now, due to all the pickling, I have used up 4 boxes of PC I had from previous years, along with half of the 24 ounce jar I bought from Bulk Foods. Ideally, they still sell the pickling lime from Mrs, Wages, and I still have a few big containers of it here, but have not use any since PC came out. I use PC and the bulk product the same way with the same amounts mentioned on the PC box, which is 3/4 teaspoon for pints and 1.5 teaspoons for quarts. The bulk product isn't a fine powder like the PC, as its a bit larger sized pieces, so I factor in the larger sized granules as being a bit less of the product (like you would calculate a fine pickling salt compared to a very course Kosher salt) when I added it to each jar. Usually most of my pickles are in quarts, but I do make a few pints if there is a smaller quantity in the batches. If I were to do presoaks, I would still prefer the pickling lime to PC as it has no chlorine/chloride that can add to the taste. Pickling lime can easily stain even stainless steel, so a good scrubbing after the 24 hour refrigerated presoak can help to get the stainless bowl back to a decent sheen again. The cukes do need a good scrubbing as well after the soaking, to remove the white coating of lime that tends to adhere to them. Whats left, usualy falls off the cukes and settles to the bottom of the jars. When using whole or sliced cukes, I cut off the end tips from BOTH ends of the cukes before placing in the jars.

Just a question for clarification, you say the website say's that PC can be used to replace a lime soak, do they mean you can replace PC for lime? or are they saying you can eliminate the step of soaking them by using PC?

Another question (and I mean this as an honest question so that I can understand what your doing, not as a sarchastic one) but if your using PC anyway then why do you want to soak them instead of just adding the PC to the jar and skipping the soak?

You have me curious now :) I've never heard of soaking in PC either.

Best Wishes
Amino-X

Amino X, you can use the Pickle Crisp instead of the old method of soaking in lime OR it can be added to each individual jar of pickles.
I see no reason to soak them, either, if you just add it to the jars. I would do one or the other.
Soaking them is on their website, at least is was when I looked before. This is what it said, as I posted in a prior post:
Straight from their website:
Pickle CrispÂ
Ball 100% Natural ® Pickle Crisp ensures your pickles don't turn out wimpy. Use as a presoak in place of pickling lime or add directly to the jar of any fresh pack pickles!

The PC is added at brine filling time and is NOT used as a presoak like lime. Its intended to eliminate the need to do a presoak in lime. I wouldn't try it as a presoak, unless they stated the proper amount to use. A teaspoon and a half of PC for a quart of water wouldn't have the same effect as the larger amount of pickling lime mixed with water. Pickling lime is measured as a cup per 2 gallons of water.

I know, I know, this is way off subject and almost a year late. While looking for info on Pickle Crisp I found your discussion. Now you have my curiosity piqued and I 'must' have LL's pickle recipe. Where can I find it? Also, thanks to everyone for all the great discussion and info on the Pickle Crisp. I don't make nearly as many pickles as I did when I was younger so many of the things mentioned are very new to me.

Linda Lou's recipe for sweet pickles is buried in this forum someplace. You can do a search within this forum and I would expect its going to show up several times. Just so you know, I just opened a year old jar of refrigerated half sours and they were still very crips and crunchy. There was probably 6 or more cloves of garlic cut up in that half gallon jar too.

Here is a link that might be useful: L L sweet pickle chunks & Annies Salsa

Thank you for the swift reply. I have copied both the recipes...salsa and sweet pickle chunks. I haven't made sweet pickles in years and can't wait to try these. Today I made the recipe from Emeril Lagasse which called for the Pickle Crisp. He did say it was optional. I had never heard of this and of course did not want to take time to find it. Hope they are good without it. Again thank you for the help. Since I just found this great forum I will probably be lurking around lots now that the garden is in high gear.

As a harvest 'resolution' for next year. Find some suppliers that stock these products and buy them early on. Pickle Crisp is also known as food grade calcium chloride. I buy iy from Bulk Foods and find its a bit less cost for a larger amount.

Ken

I am surprised your email is not available to ask you questions in private. Anyway. I read this thread and have made pickles in the past. I like your steam method. I agree it should work better.

However, I get confused with all the reading. If I want to make some of your half sours that will last a long time can you give me the quick steps.

I guess I am old fashioned. To me pickling is putting the cucs into a crock filling with brine and allowing them to pickle.

I have a queston for Linda Lou also she forgot to say what to fill the jars with. vinegar or vinegar and water or the original brine.

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Posted by linda_lou SW Wa. (My Page) on Sun, Mar 19, 06 at 0:52

To process the pickles
Fill clean, sterilized quart jars with pickles to within 1/2inch of the top. Wipe, seal, and process in a hot water bath for 15 minutes. Remove and place on towel in a draft free area. Let jars stand for 12 hours. Label and date. Store in a dark, cool area.
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I doubt she does not put something into the jar. might be the brine. but I dont like guessing.

Anyway Ken Please let me know how to do your pickles.

I always naturally ferment them first and them pack with 100% vinegar for safety. I dont know what I am doing. but it has been safe in the past. To me these quick vinegar pack pickle crisp methods are not pickling. they are flavoring the cucs.

To me there is nothing like the taste of a naturally fermented pickle fresh out of the pickling crock. Unfortunately I lose that flavor when I pack into all vinegar.

There are many ways to 'do' pickles. Linda Lou has several recipes, for various types. My Claussen type half sours are made with just salt and water, as well as very fresh cukes. I posted my method several times in previous messages. My Polish grandmother taught me how to taste the salt brine to determine when its at the correct proportion as far as salt and water. Because I like a bit more dill flavor, I also use some of the prepackaged mixes from Ball and Mrs. Wages. These are the ones that have dill extracts and salt. When making the brines, I have to taste it to see when it reaches the salt level where its not tasting salty anymore, but instead, seems to become sweet tasting, as well as 'mouth watering'. If not enough salt is used, it can taste salty, and if too much salt, it will taste bitter. I usually pack the jars with fresh dill seed heads (the seeds are still green and bulging) and lots of dill weed, as well as lots of garlic cut up. The cukes are very fresh and both ends are cut off. They get tightly packed in the jars and the brine is poured in to cover them. The are NOT processed in any way, but remain on the counter about 2-3 days. Then, I pour in about a tablesoon of white vinegar and place in the fridge. About a week later they can be eaten, but if I make a lot, they can keep up to a year in the frige. Mine never get moldy on top, so thats a good indication that there is the proper blance of salt/water and cold from the fridge. Linda Lou has some similar 'measured' recipes, but most everyting I make is done by taste and I usually don't follow any recipes. Even make bread, sausages, and other things without any recipes. When I make a vinegar bsed pickle, I don't usually use much added water, but instead of just fresh herbs, I like to use the mixes, which usually offer more flavor. For sweet pickles, I used a very small amount of Splenda, compared to 'tons' or sugar. The end result is a very tasty pickle, and a whole quart jar can be eaten in one sitting. My half sours are made in 1/2 gallon Ball jars.

I used Penzey's pickling spice mix for the first time this year. I made refrigerator pickles with 1/2 vinegar, half water, pickling salt, sugar, and some of the pickling spice. They turned out great. I like the mix because there's no preservatives in it, just spices.

Here is a link that might be useful: Penzeys pickling spice belnd

The pickling mixes are easy to make. Coriander, clove, allspice, dill, mustard seed, celery seed, cinnamon, and ginger are all common ingredients for some pickle brines. For a half sour, all those spice types are not necessary. Usually when they are all used, its for a sweet mixed pickle or other similar sweeter type. For a refrigerator types, the most common is just dill and garlic and maybe a couple of peppercorns. Most of the prepackaged Ball mixes have no added preservatives either. I have used the Penzeys, but don't like the hot peppers in it, or some of the other, lesser used spices. It does make a great rub for roast beef, or home made pastrami

Pickle Crisp/Calcium Chloride
Calcium Is a Firming agent
FROM The insert:
As a Presoak
--1To use PC in place of Pickling lime begin with a fresh pack pickle recipe that calls for pickling lime.
--2 Prepare presoak mixture by combining a ratio of of 1 packet PC to 1 gal water. ( each packet contains 26g)
--3 Prepare cukes as directed in the recipe add to presoak mixture.
--4 Soak cukes in PC mixture in the refrigerator for time required in the recipe.
--5 drain the cukes DO NOT RINSE
--6 continue to follow recipe instructions.
--------------------------------
***** OR*****
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Add to any jar of fresh packed Pickles
--1 to make crispy pickles and vegetables use a fresh pack pickle recipe tested for home canning.

--2 Prepare recipe as instructed

--3 Pack Pack Cukes/vegetables into jars
--4 Add 1.5 teaspoons pickle crisp to each quart jar
--5 ladle pickling fluid over cukes or vegetables to disperse PC.
--6 Finish following recipe instructions for head space requirements and processing in a boiling water canner.

Hope this helps.

I just discovered pickle crisp i currently have pickles soaking in lime water Would it atill be beneficial to add 1/8 t to each pint jar?