I had a batch last week that had bigger chunks of pepper and onion, but basically came out like Pace b/c I squeezed the tomatoes before measuring 8 cups. I didn't add tomato sauce, but did add 12 oz of paste. Got 6+ pints. I forgot the garlic, so figured I'd save that for making chili, boil in case it was too thick, and add the garlic then (along with other chili seasonings like more cumin).

I made a batch yesterday, "de-gooed" the tomatoes and chopped roughly into quarters (halves for small tomatoes) before measuring 8 C, didn't drain. But I had seen where someone had let theirs cool (overnight?) to check seasonings and thickness before canning, thought that was a good idea, so I let mine cool on the counter (after cooking 10 minutes) while jars were in the DW. Decided it was too thin, so added 12 oz of paste, stirred it in while heating (just a few minutes) and then added 8oz of sauce since last week's was too thick. Cooked that 10 minutes too, decided that the 1 1/4C of finely (almost pureed with some big slivers) of pepper and 1/2C (before putting in chopper that also pureed those) onions wasn't chunky enough, so added 2C of hand-chopped onion, 2Tbsp finely chopped hot cherry pepper, and 1/4C chunky bell pepper, 4 more oz of sauce, cooked it some more. Didn't look too thick going into the jars, but I only got 3 Ball pints (then added another 2 Tbsp of cherry pepper) in first load and 2 Atlas Strong Shoulder jars (pints? Or slightly over?) in 2nd canner load, with just a tiny bit (about 4 oz) left over that I added the other 4oz of sauce to and stuck in the fridge.

So since I only got 5.25 pints, not 6 (could maybe be 5.75 pints if Atlas jars are 20 oz but I don't think they are that big, maybe 18oz), I'm wondering if this is too dense? Of course, I used 8oz less sauce/paste than Annie's calls for, just b/c I only had 12 oz cans of paste (I've seen 6 and 12, have never seen 8oz cans). So there's half a pint there, but I *did* get more in the first batch (15 of sauce, no paste) and 2nd batch (12oz paste, no sauce) when I made it before, and I used more paste/sauce this time!

Because I didn't know how large the Atlas jars were, I stuck them in the fridge. Just used them b/c I happened to have them in the DW (cleaning a bunch of jars I got at tag sale).

I don't know if I should reprocess the 3 pints I have? I have 1 pint of raw-pack tomatoes I could add (that has 1Tbsp lemon juice added). I used a cup of half lemon and half ReaLime juice in the salsa. I know texture will really suffer if I reprocess these 3 pints but with the fridge pickles and 2 Atlas jars in there I don't have much room in the fridge.

WWYD? I don't want to dump a day's worth of worth, and since it's been only 20 hrs or so I could reprocess, or I could make room in the fridge (eat the watermelon). Or we could just plan on lots of chili this winter (we usually have it once a week, use at least 8oz of Pace or ChiChi's per pot plus canned tomatoes). Oh, and we have a BBQ tomorrow - if I stick a pint in the fridge now, would it be safe to eat cold tomorrow? Thanks

All of these low acid additions voids the assured safety of the original recipe. So it is no longer Annie's Salsa - not even close - it is your salsa recipe, made up as you went along. You cannot safely can your own made-up recipes. I believe this important point has been mentioned to you before. ;)

Plus you added more paste which only thickens it even more. Plus you reduced the amount of sauce which is needed for safe consistency since it thins. Plus you didn't increase the amount of acid despite adding all those low-acid ingredients and you'd have no way to know how much it would need to be increased anyway.

All you can do safely is refrigerate this and use ASAP.

Compared to the original recipe for Annie's Salsa, yes Pace's Chunky Salsa is too thick.

Dave

PLEASE if you're going to try to answer my questions, you have to pay attention. We really do have a failure to communicate, I could have just said that I used 12 oz instead of 16 oz of paste and 12 oz instead of 16 of sauce, but I wanted to be clear that I added these during the cooking process, not all at the beginning. I'm *trying* to be clear! Sorry to have to make you have to do some addition with fractions.

The only thing I did that wasn't perhaps "approved" was that I didn't dump everything into the pot at the same time, b/c I wanted to be able to adjust the seasonings to taste (why I only put 1 1/4C of peppers and 1/2C onion in to begin with), so I think I ended up cooking it too long and it might have gotten too thick.

But thank you, if Pace is too thick then this is too - wasn't sure how it was supposed to be since Annie says she likes hers thick, but I've never seen it IRL.

Now, if you don't recommend adding raw-pack or fresh tomatoes (and more acid) and reprocessing, I will store all the jars in the fridge or plan on cooking them in chili if I can't fit them in fridge. I will open the jars (and stir?) to get more oxygen in. One jar should be OK for tomorrow, but how long can I keep the other jars in the fridge?

Next time I try Annie's salsa I will put 12 oz of paste and 12 oz of sauce in right away with the tomatoes and other veggies, acid and seasonings, and see how it comes out. I thought when someone posted the annotated instructions that it said there was some room for adjustment.

Perhaps the failure to communicate problem is that your questions are confusing and difficult to sort through. All the extra, unrelated info you throw into them like what you did last week and what you forgot when and how you guess you'll use it maybe, etc. mean your questions are buried in all the chat and difficult to sort out. So if you want specific yes/no answers to your questions, post the specific question and leave out all the chattiness.

And I'm not the only one having trouble making sense of your posts as is clear with the crosscut pickles post. And yet we must try to clarify them for the benefit of any one who might read them in the future. Don't want that reader assuming all your changes are safe when they clearly aren't. I'm sorry if my replies aren't what you wanted to hear but they are as accurate and to the point as I can make them with the info given to work with.

To make fresh eating recipes you can do as you wish with no safety concerns.

But to make any canning recipes, you add what the recipe lists as ingredients, in the amounts called for and in the manner they are called, for and you process as the recipe instructs you to do. You do NOT make your own modifications unless those modifications are already approved.

In the case of Annie's Salsa those approved changes are:

leaving out or reducing the tomato paste, NOT the sauce,

leaving out or reducing the salt, pepper, sugar or the cumin as they are only for taste not safety,

using pint jars only

using 1 cup of vinegar OR bottled lemon or lime juice or a combo thereof

reducing (not increasing) the onions and/or peppers

That's it. Period. Doing otherwise compromises safety.

Instead you didn't drain the tomatoes, let them cool out on the counter rather than in the fridge, "decided" it is too thin or too thick which isn't your decision to make, pureed the peppers, added more onions and extra hot peppers (per your post), cooked longer than called for in the recipe so it thickened, used larger jars, etc., etc. Do all that and there is no straight forward safety help that can be provided with much accuracy.

This is Annie's Salsa recipe:

ANNIE’S SALSA
8 cups tomatoes, peeled, chopped and drained
2 1/2 cups chopped onion
1 1/2 cups chopped green pepper
3 – 5 chopped jalapenos
6 cloves minced garlic
2 tsp cumin
2 tsp pepper
1/8 cup canning salt
1/4 cup chopped fresh cilantro
1/3 cup sugar
1 cup apple cider vinegar
16 oz. tomato sauce
16 oz tomato paste

Mix all ingredients, bring to a boil, boil 10 minutes. Pour into hot jars, process pints for 15 minutes.

Makes 6 pints

That recipe is safe to can. Whether yours is or not, no one can say with any degree of accuracy. Make the recipe as it is written and then make all your other adjustments AFTER the jar is opened.

Dave

Dave was trying his best to provide a response to a post which was verbose, convoluted and disjointed. Beyond that, it's utterly unhelpful to post a reply that places upon Dave the additional responsibility of somehow untying the knots and providing an answer that is precisely what you want.

Deepy ironic, as precision is the polar opposite of the original post.

None of us gets paid for this, you know.

Carol

Annie's Salsa Ingredient Checklist:

8 cups tomatoes, peeled, chopped and drained

2-1/2 cups onion, chopped

1-1/2 cups green pepper, chopped
3 - 5 jalapenos, chopped
>Any combination of green, red, whatever color peppers is fine. 3-5 jalapenos equates to roughly 1/4 cup, so total peppers cannot exceed 1-3/4 cups.

6 cloves garlic, minced
>Do not increase. But small differences in size of cloves should not matter.

2 teaspoons cumin

2 teaspoons pepper

2 Tbsp canning salt
>For taste only. Can be reduced or left out entirely.

1/4 cup (4 Tbsp) fresh cilantro, chopped
>Can be reduced or left out entirely. Do not increase.

1/3 cup sugar
>For taste only. Can be reduced or left out entirely.

1 cup 5% cider vinegar
>Pressure canning is no longer recommended, which specified 1/3 cup vinegar. Must include full 1 cup of vinegar for BWB processing.
However, may substitute bottled lemon or lime juice in any proportions according to taste (for example, 1/3 cup vinegar, 1/3 cup lemon juice, 1/3 cup lime juice). Can use any flavor vinegar (white, cider, etc.) as long as acidity is at least 5%.

2 cups (16 oz.) tomato sauce
>For texture only. Can be reduced or left out entirely.

2 cups (16 oz.)tomato paste
>For texture only. Can be reduced or left out entirely.

Mix all ingredients, bring to a boil and boil for 10 minutes. Pour into hot pint jars, seal and process in a hot water canning bath for 15 minutes.
Makes about 6 pints.
>Cannot BWB quarts. If doing half-pints or smaller, process for the pint time of 15 minutes.

So, I used all the same ingredients except 12oz of paste and 12 oz of sauce, to keep the ratio the same, since I thought it would be harder to measure 4oz of paste out of a 12oz can than 4oz of sauce out of a 4 oz can. I also thought those 2 ingredients were optional, but brought up last week's batch (when I only used paste) to confirm that if I use the paste, I *have* to use at least an equal amount of sauce. I did not see this stated in any thread.

To be precise, I put the 8 cups of peeled, chopped, de-gooed (not drained) tomatoes in the pot with 4 oz of lemon juice, 4 oz of ReaLime, 1 1/4C of finely chopped/pureed (see below) peppers, 1/2C of almost-pureed onion, 2 tsp cumin,2 tsp ground black pepper,2 Tbsp non-iodized salt, 1 Tbsp minced garlic (packed in water and drained, used in place of minced fresh garlic per jar instructions), NO sugar, and 1/4C of chopped fresh cilantro. After I had cooked that for 10 minutes I pulled it off the stove to cool for approximately 5 minutes to check consistency and taste for pepper "heat". That's when I decided to add the tomato paste/sauce and the rest of the chopped veggies (had to decide whether to use the cherry pepper or not, the answer was yes).

Unfortunately I had filled my minichopper with the jalapeno and serrano peppers and didn't have any more - I don't know why it pureed them, I thought perhaps they were too fresh/had too much water? At least I didn't put the full amount in so I had 1/2C to play with for texture/spice. I didn't realize (again, I have seen posts to the contrary and no one has spoken up to say "you can't do that") that you can't add some of the ingredients after cooking, cooling for a while (I only let it cool perhaps 5 min on the counter), Again, other people who have made this have stated and I have not seen that it is not permissible to cool, taste-test, and adjust the thickeners and hot/sweet pepper mix (without going over the 1 3/4C total) and then cook again for 10 minutes.

I am sorry the narrative in my original post was not clear and may have included TMI, but I wrote the process down precisely as I made it so that you experts could understand how I measured and when I added the ingredients, and how long I cooked it, because I wanted to check if it was safe. If not, what to do with it and how to make it correctly the next time.

Please forgive my lack of prose style - I'm an engineer, not an English major, and it is much easier to write specifications in a "canned" (pardon the pun) format than it is to write narrative but I thought I needed to include a description of the consistency of each ingredient, the steps in the process and reasoning behind taking each step, not just a list of ingredients, since then it would have appeared that everything was fine and I know you all can't see the product that I think is too thick.

I do appreciate the help on this forum, I thought Dave was saying that I was adding *cups* more low-acid ingredients than the recipe called for, when if you read carefully and do the math you will see that I did not exceed the amounts given at all. I was frustrated and got snippy - I apologize. I also apologize if this post is verbose and disjoint, I am trying to clarify what was not clear in my original post, but fear that I have failed again.

Perhaps Annie could rewrite the recipe, clearly stating whether to peel, chop, and (?) "de-goo" before measuring the tomatoes, , how finely to chop the peppers and onions, when/if pepper mix can be adjusted during the process, ratio of paste/sauce (if used at all), and finally for those of us like oletimer and myself, what is the final consistency? If not Pace, then something like Ragu or Prego spaghetti sauce (with chunks of pepper and onion?)?

This is because rather than just making it per the original recipe, so many people new to the recipe INSIST on modifying it to their personal tastes and then debating the whys and wherefores of their wanted modifications.

If, instead, they would simply make it per the recipe instructions even one time they would then know 1) how it is supposed to taste, and 2) what it's consistency is supposed to look like, and 3) what they may wish to add after the jar is opened.

But they won't. So all we can do is now and then post once again the recipe itself, a list of the approved modifications if modifying just MUST be done for some reason (which it doesn't) and try to get folks back on the right track.

I did that above. Ignore all the other discussions and debates and hoopla and maybes and suggested alternatives and methods in other posts and stick to the recipe.

Perhaps Annie could rewrite the recipe, clearly stating whether to peel, chop, and (?) "de-goo" before measuring the tomatoes, , how finely to chop the peppers and onions, when/if pepper mix can be adjusted during the process, ratio of paste/sauce (if used at all), and finally for those of us like oletimer and myself, what is the final consistency?

Annie doesn't need to re-write the recipe. It was tested and approved as it is and it reads just like any other recipe. But if it helps - Measure 8 cups of peeled, chopped (not diced or coarsely chopped), and drained tomatoes. Add the remaining required ingredients and heat, jar, and process.

Try the full recipe just once as it is written and don't worry about all the fine details. That way you will know exactly what it should look like.

Dave

PS: only the paste is optional, not the sauce.

I wanted something thick that didn't fall off the chip and this is the recipe for that. My family LOVES!! it and so do I. My husband likes his with a little more kick so I made him Mrs. Wages Medium Salsa. He likes that too.

Next year I plan on making mostly Annie's Salsa but with different pepper combinations so that we can all have the heat (or lack of) that we want.

I've been meaning to thank Annie for this recipe and here's my chance. Thank You, Annie!!

Val

PS - Thanks goes to the rest of you as well - I've learned so much over the last few years and mostly all on this forum! You ARE appreciated.

I would *love* to make this as written just one time, but it's hard when you can't find 16 oz (or even 8oz) cans of paste. I assumed (wrongly?) this time that paste and sauce should be equal amounts, and yes my preference is not to use 16 oz of sauce and 12 oz of paste even though that may be safe, b/c our tastes run to thicker salsa. It's even harder when well-meaning people post annotations saying this or that is optional, so again I want Annie to comment on whether sauce is optional, paste is optional but you must use sauce if using paste, and what *her* "thick" approved recipe consistency is so we know. Consistency can vary depending on type of tomatoes (even a mixture of tomatoes) used, so even saying you *must* add 16 oz of sauce and 16oz of paste doesn't mean that you will end up with the same consistency as Annie, or even the same consistency every time. If density is so critical to proper canning, we should have a "yardstick" to compare against, like the commercially canned tomato products I mentioned.

As far as tastes, Annie herself says that you can use any mix of sweet and hot peppers as long as it doesn't exceed 1 3/4C, but how are you to judge how much of each variety to use (again, individual peppers may vary) unless you can taste each batch and adjust at some point?

So please, Annie, can you post exact instructions and allowed modifications, along with tips for making those modifications (like tasting for pepper, sugar without canning a whole batch and then saying "Next time I think I'll...")? Also, I noticed that NCHFP salsa recipes said "bring to a boil and reduce to a simmer, simmer for 10 minutes" and I'm wondering if you really *boil* yours for 10 minutes? Of course I cooked this batch way too long, but I want to make sure I do it right next time. As they say, "The Devil is in the details".

OK, that was my secondary concern, back to the main point of my original post - I suspect this is too thick since I ended up with less than stated amount. Too late to reprocess now even if I wanted to. I have the entire batch in the refrigerator, how long is it good for?

(BTW, I measured the Atlas jar that I thought was a pint and it is 16oz to the rim, so less than that when you allow 1/2" headspace. The discrepancy in yield must be due to overcooking/evaporation.)

Tanya, it's fine with or without the tomato sauce/paste, I just like the consistency it gives.

Soooo - I'm hoping that I have nothing to worry about - as that came from the source! I've listed the thread that this comment came from below.

I am not a beginning canner, but by no means a master canner either (although I am scheduled to go to classes to be a master preserver - and am quite excited!) Just mentioned that because I know enough about the basics to know that I can't mess with canning recipes. I did modify my salsa recipe by subbing some sweet peppers with hot, and reducing the tomato paste and sauce. Both of which seem to be fine.

And honestly - if there weren't so many posts about this salsa, I would have used all the sauce and paste - as listed in the original recipe - just subbed some of the hot peppers!

Have a great night everyone!

I like it a bit sweet, kind of thick and chunky and not too hot. I like the flavor of the apple cider vinegar best, but others don't necessarily.

I do scoop out the goo in the middle of the tomatoes with my thumbs when I'm peeling and chopping, so it's 8 cups of chopped tomatoes without the seeds and goo. "

So that answers 1 question - "de-goo" before measuring the tomatoes. She also said she cuts her tomatoes in big chunks.

Still need to know how fine (or not) to chop peppers and onions. Nice to know we can sub some peppers for onions, but she was waiting on Linda Lou to say how much (apparently can't use 4 1/4 C of peppers and no onions, for example).

Annie also said that she "tasted as she goes" so I assume at some point you can remove it from heat (or does she take a sample and keep cooking?) and then add more hot pepper (assuming you haven't hit the "limit" on peppers yet)?

Annie said paste and sauce weren't needed but she worked hard to get the texture without cooking it down too much. She also said you can omit the paste or reduce it, but I didn't see for sure that you *have* to use some sauce (how much?) if you use any paste. I think it would depend on how meaty or juicy your tomatoes were to begin with.

And you're not the only one who has salsa that isn't safe to eat if you didn't add sauce (did you add paste?), others have mentioned that too. Even though Dave himself said you can leave the sauce and paste out - I think he meant both, and if you add paste you might (probably? definitely?) need to add sauce to make sure it's not too thick. Again, it depends on the tomatoes you're starting with.

So really do need a yardstick for how thick/thin this should be. Linda Lou said it should be thin with chunks but Annie said she makes it "thick" so I am still waiting with bated breath to see what consistency Annie got approved (oh, and whether that was hot - before you put it in jars - or if you can only tell it's too thick after it's cooled). For example, should it be as thin as (room temperature) Ragu when it's hot and you're putting it in the jars?

Annie, if you're reading this, please start a new thread b/c this one is getting too crowded with the usual testimonials. Not that I don't want to know, ekgrows, if you used 8oz of paste and 8oz sauce (I used 12 of each assuming they had to be equal amounts), but I don't want to start another thread with "I made Annie's this way".

BTW, anybody have any ideas how long the thick stuff will safely keep in the fridge?

IF I ever said that I sure didn't mean it that way and I'd appreciate it if you could point me to it so I could correct it. As far as I am concerned personally nothing is optional. The paste may be optional (per Annie) but the sauce is required IMO for the acidity and the liquid it provides.

But then again since I make it according to the recipe and include everything that is in the recipe and always have, I don't have to be concerned with all the trivial details. If everyone else would just stick to the recipe and quit making all the modifications then all the posts like this would be pointless. It really is that simple.

Dave

I think maybe you are over thinking things a bit.

Still need to know how fine (or not) to chop peppers and onions.

Here's some links that might help.

How to chop peppers

How to chop onions

For example, should it be as thin as (room temperature) Ragu when it's hot and you're putting it in the jars?

See, something like this might be hard to answer because some people have never used Ragu. I haven't so I wouldn't know the consistency...so you can see how a question like that could be hard to answer.

While searching for the above links I also came across this PDF file that tells how to do tomatoes.

Tomato Basics

Hope these help.

Val

" * Posted by digdirt 6 -7 AR (My Page) on
Wed, Aug 5, 09 at 15:56

You can leave them out if you wish. It just results in a thinner, less tomato-taste salsa. No other changes are necessary if you do. But if doing it BWB be sure to use the full cup of vinegar or vinegar/bottled lemon or lime juice combo. "

Val - I will check those out, thanks. I'm just paranoid now that I'm chopping (or processing) too fine since purees are apparently taboo, or hand-chopping too large and leaving "low-acid islands".

This too is one of subjective opinion. It can't really be answered to your satisfaction, I don't think.

It all depends on the individual. Some people may like there salsa with 1" pieces, some with 2", some in the middle of that - it just depends.

It sounds like you are a visual person and like everything "just so" when it comes to instructions...I'm a little OCD like that too sometimes, but I've learned with canning some things just can't be put into that fine of detail.

Val

There is - but we're keeping it a secret :-)

If you look at the Salsa recipes on the NCHFP site, they don't tell you a minimum or maximum size for cutting peppers, onions and tomatoes. It just says things like "10 cups peeled, cored, chopped tomatoes" or "4 cups chopped onions". I don't think it would be fair to try and hold Annie's salsa instructions to a higher degree than the NCHFP site.

If you really, really, really want minimum and maximum cutting sizes you could contact the NCHFP site and ask them.

Val

It's almost tomato season here, guess I need to finally make this salsa this year. :)

Lisa, yes I do know 16 oz = 1 C fluid. I just assumed that paste should not exceed sauce, and it's easier to pour 4 oz out of a sauce can (to get 12 oz of sauce to equal the paste) than to spoon paste out (unless I measure it in Tbsp, then thoroughly scrape the spoon out). I'm not even sure how much I scraped out of the 12 oz can. But that brings up something I never thought of - the 12oz can is sold by weight, not volume, and I assume the recipe is referring to volume? So who knows how much I *really* got out of the 12 oz weight can? Of course, I could measure it next time, but if 12 (or 16) oz volume comes out to weigh more b/c paste is so dense, then I assume that wouldn't be safe either, the salsa would be too thick. Now I'm *really* confused.

I did find on the Canadian Fight Bac website "cooked type (salsa) and not processed, it can be refrigerated for one month." - now, I did process these, opened 2 jars (1 hot, 1 medium) yesterday to taste and will use today at a BBQ. If I open the others and stir to oxygenate, will they last 2 weeks to a month? Or should I freeze them?

http://www.canfightbac.org/cpcfse/en/cookwell/ask/where_how/#1684

But Whew! At least it doesn't matter that I do it by weight/can size and don't measure. I bought 12 oz cans so if I *really* have to use 16 oz and not 12 oz (thought less was OK) I could scoop it all out of 2nd can, measure it and just use 1/3 of whatever that volume is, then find a use for the other 8 or so ounces.

My dad just gave me a bunch of paste tomatoes so if I make salsa again this week it might be thicker, would it be OK to try 12oz of paste and 16 oz (2 8oz cans) of sauce to account for the meatier tomatoes?

When I first started making this salsa, tomato sauce and paste came in 8 and 16 ounce cans. Like everything else, they've now been downsized, so now I have to use partial cans. Sigh.

My salsa is not as thick as Heinz catsup but it's thicker than taco sauce. My "chunks" are about a 1/4 inch dice, maybe less. I use equal amounts of sauce and paste and I just use my thumbs to scoop out the goo and then chop the tomatoes up, I don't drain them. If you are going to drain them, then do that and don't thumb out the goo or your salsa will be too thick.

I won't be re-typing the recipe any time soon because I shut my right index finger in the door of the Jeep and broke it, making typing painful and laborious. Plus I have a wedding five weeks away, 51 jars of apple butter to finish up as favors for that and a wedding cake to bake and decorate.

People want to make changes and that's fine, I'm all for making it as thin or as hot as you like it, but make them at your own risk, the recipe was tested as posted. Make too many changes and it's no longer "Annie's Salsa", it then becomes your own. That's actually a very good thing, but I can't guarantee anything would pass testing except my own!

Annie

Annie, if you don't mind I'd like to copy and paste your entire email from the 2nd paragraph on (after the "tomato goo juice" discussion) onto a new thread so people will see the "definitive" recipe. I'll also post the recipe, let me know if you want it with our without the annotations. I'll email you an "advance copy" for proofreading. Then we can let this thread and all the other Annie's threads die and drop off so only your definitive recipe and instructions are left.

Thanks so much for your contribution to the culinary world.

If Annie wishes to post changes to it or annotations to it then she will and they would need to come directly from her to have any credence or authority. Coming from someone else it is then open to that 3rd party's interpretation and it will only stir yet another thread of debate - which we all keep trying to avoid.

Since you were the one with all the questions about it, if you now have the information you need to work with the recipe then that is sufficient.

And please note that many here would prefer to hold on to the other discussions on this recipe as they contain valuable information. That is why they are routinely clipped and/or saved rather than letting them disappear. Wanting to avoid new debates over the recipe and wanting to get rid of all the past discussions about it are two very different things.

Thank you.

Dave

PLEASE DO AS ANNIE AND DAVE have said, stick to the recipe!