Well, she's not going to kill anyone. Cranberries are acid, so they're not susceptible to the really harmful sorts of bacteria.

She's open-kettle canning (i.e. no heat processing), which is a very old-fashioned method and with most foods highly risky.

It is true the jars "seal" but the seal is weak compared to that obtained by heat processing. Additionally, if the cranberries are shelved there is a higher risk of loss from mold or simply degradation of quality through oxidation due to the air left in the jar.

But your cranberries are fine to eat.

Carol

does she know something I don't know?

No. You know something that she doesn't know. Or apparently doesn't care to know. That open kettle canning disappeared, or should have, eons ago.

Dave

I know, ALOT of people who still can using the open kettle method.
No amount of gentle persuading changes their mind.

It's not the recommended method by North American "authorities," which counsel water-bathing everything.

But it was a standard, accepted method of canning high-acid, fruit-based items for a long time, and is still standard in the U.K. and much of Europe for jams, jellies, etc.

Feel free to eat the cranberries. They're a very acidic food and there isn't going to be any deadly botulism in there.

And if they've sealed, then they'll be fine on the shelf, too. The chances of a weak seal are, as Carol says, a little higher, so if you do that, be sure to check that the seal was still good before you open (but you do that anyway with any home-canned goods, right?).

Z

Even a sealed jar by this method may still permit the development of molds, or loss of flavor and color through oxidation.

However, that doesn't mean such high-acid (and high-sugar) products can't be shelved. It merely means that the odds of loss are higher.

One thing to keep in mind is that this traditional method (again speaking of things like sweet preserves or strongly vinegared chutneys, etc.) worked better in previous times. Stillrooms were cold and by spring the shelves were bare, so historically those foods were stored under conditions close to refrigeration and not kept as long as home canners do today, who may process food on a two-year cycle and keep some jars of product even longer than that.

USDA guidelines are a reflection of a society that cans in large amounts, keeps some home-canned product darned near forever, and wants assurances that everything is 100% risk-free, not 99.9%.

Carol

If it's just one jar keep it in the fridge and it will be fine. I would eat it. I bet it's delicious!

Was just reading a canning blog where the lady says she has been canning for over 40 years and never processes her jellies, jams, or pickles "just because the government says she has to".

Some people will latch on to any excuse to avoid change - even if they have to make one up. ;)

Dave

>>> USDA guidelines are a reflection of a society that cans in large amounts, keeps some home-canned product darned near forever, and wants assurances that everything is 100% risk-free, not 99.9%.

Agree for the most part, except that I get the impression that the "society that cans in large amounts" part is one of the things that has changed --- it seems to me that one of the cultural forces behind the tightening of the recommendations is that, as a society in North America, we can much *less*, and tend to do so more as a hobby and to create specialty items than as a way of stockpiling staples.

Now, I know there are plenty of people who can great quantities, to the point of being completely or nearly self-sufficient in their food needs, including some posters on this forum, whose accomplishments I really admire! But I have always imagined there are fewer and fewer such people; that one reason something more like a 99.9% safety rate was more acceptable back in the day was because preserving food was a necessary way of life for more people.

You're more willing to accept a small chance your food is spoiled, or even toxic, if the alternative is not having any food in the winter. Whereas if the alternative is having to eat jam from the store, or not having a nice gift from your kitchen for Aunt Tootie, even a small chance of bad food seems a pretty high price to pay!

Similarly, I'd imagine that's why it's getting harder to find recommended processing times for many recipes for quarts and larger amounts; it isn't always that processing 1.5 litres of something can't be done to modern standards, but sometimes that it isn't considered to be a piece of information in enough demand to be worth determining and disseminating.

But maybe I'm wrong---maybe there is a more recent swing back toward canning for practical reasons, part of a self-sufficiency movement and backlash against Big Industrial Food. (Given the number of recalls of toxic food products from commercial companies in the past few years, I wouldn't be surprised!)

Z, just musing

Zabby - I think you're right.

Dave - that's like refusing to wear your seat belt just b/c the government says you have to! Though how many motorcycle riders do you see without helmets? People just don't think something bad is going to happen to *them*...

If one spends some time browsing through some of the so-called Homesteading forums on the web you'll be amazed at the number of people that are still preserving foods in very large amounts and stockpiling staples because it is a necessary way of life just as we all used to do 40 or 50 years ago.

These are both young families as well as older singles, many living in remote or isolated parts of the country but many also living in suburbia. They raise most all their own foods including meats, often home school by either choice or necessity, often live a 'green' life, and can foods to survive and feed their families. It is a much larger portion of the North American culture than many may realize and it is growing rather than declining.

For more insight into the rural life style that hundreds of thousands of us live and where home food preservation remains a very active part of that life you might want to explore the Homesteading forum here at GW or the forums on homesteadingtoday.com or mrssurvival.com or totallyfrugal.com for a start.

Dave

You may be right, Zabby. I was speaking historically, but for many the "canning gene" skipped a generation or two post-WWII. Now there's a new generation of younger enthusiasts, many of whom approach canning from a different perspective.

I think also there's that urban-rural divide.

Here, though, canning has always been a significant part of the local culture. There are many rural areas of the US and Canada where big-batch canning continues to be the norm. I do think many of those home preservers may be less well-served with the emphasis on boutique canning.

Carol

I think there is much less canning going on. I used to can, but don't any more. I also used to know a whole bunch of people who canned, and now I don't know anyone who cans, outside of this forum.

Seriously, I barely know anyone who cooks in a serious fashion. Lots of frozen pizza getting warmed up. Lots of money being wasted buying easy to serve stuff that is not nearly as tasty or healthy as home cooked food.

The stores still stock canning supplies, but the display is very small compared to times past.

Carol,

People can for their own food needs in big batches here where I live now, too --- it's been an agricultural area for 200 years, one of the oldest in English Canada. (Everything around here suddenly felt a lot LESS old a few weeks ago when I visited Quebec city, mind you, which recently celebrated its 400th anniversary, LOL.)

But it certainly wasn't the case anywhere else I've lived, or almost anywhere else people I've known have lived.

And here, the farming community has changed. In the first half of the 1900s s about half the tomatoes eaten in Canada were grown in the fertile soil around here (there were dozens of canneries). Now large-scale production has mostly shifted to places with less good soil but closer to the highway (and of course to other countries). Today more of the farms market to a "boutique" clientele, with roadside stands, strawberry festivals, corn mazes, etc. Some specialize (organic, heritage varieties). And someone discovered the more stony parts of the region have great soil for wine grapes.

I don't have access to enough data to know what the (inter)national trends are, but I am going to some extent by what I see in the media about canning, by which I include the BBB and Bernardin books (more Hab Gold-type recipes, fewer how-to-can-dilly-beans-in-quarts recipes), etc.

I do think you're right that the more homesteader-style canner is not as well served by this shift, and possibly none of us are---I'm not going to can plain veggies in quarts for winter, but I'd like to be able to in case my life changes. It's a shame to stop disseminating the knowledge of how to preserve quarts of food because it's "in" to do little jars of jams now. That's one of the good things, I guess, about the Internet, is that the storing and spreading of more info becomes easier (if Ball takes an old recipe out of its book because it judges that interest is waning and wants to make room for a hipper new one, it can leave both on the Website for almost no extra cost).

I might never have even THOUGHT of growing heirloom tomatoes, or canning the extras so I didn't buy any even when I lived in downtown Toronto, if it hadn't been for Gardenweb.

(So, thanks, you guys!)

Z

Sorry for taking this more OT - but I just had to report that JC Penney has canning supplies on sale (not!). I was flipping through the "Country" decor catalog that came in the mail yesterday, they have 1 dozen 8-oz jars on sale for $9.99(half off)! The BBB for only $9.99 (50% off) as well! Tool kit (jar lifter, funnel, etc.) for $12.99 marked down from $19.99 - wonder if they know it was under $7 at Walmart originally (now down to $6)? They even have a BWB kit with graniteware canner.

Sheesh, you think this is trendy when it hits JCP? I'm just tempted to email them and tell them to check the (regular) prices at Walmart. Funny, I didn't notice this in JCP catalog this summer - but I might have thrown it out w/o looking.

I was shocked to go to Walmart and discover they're selling cases of Better Homes and Garden jars from China. So Jarden does have a competitor out there. It will be interesting to see where this goes. Glass is so heavy it's hard to imagine even at Chinese labor prices it costs out to ship jars like these thousands of miles unless they start selling everywhere. However, I do like the fact that the BH&G jars come in boxes, not those horrible shrink-wrapped cardboard pallets.

Here Ace Hardware always has a large canning display as does Walmart. The best supply at the best price, however, comes at Bimart south of us in the Willamette Valley. Not surprising as my hometown is in one of the world's richest agricultural regions and has a large population of Old-Believer Russians who are avid food preservers.

Carol

ajsmamma,

I think you're right on topic because canning supplies at JC Penney for inflated prices is exactly the kind of catering-to-boutique-canners rather than self-sufficiency or "storage" canners. (Of course those are rough categories; I for one am part both! But you know what I mean, I think.)

When I set out to try canning, it was winter and I lived downtown in Toronto and I had NO IDEA where to get jars and lids. I vaguely remembered sometimes seeing displays at some of the larger hardware or grocery stores in September, but certainly not at my neighbourhood supermarket (where the stock boy I asked looked at me like I was nuts asking for EMPTY jars). I came this close to buying some on the Internet for about $15 a dozen plus a shipping fee of about $6 before I finally decided to just ASK at least at the local hardware store, a small franchise of a large chain.

Sure, they had them in the back --- not all sizes in stock in January, but could order any size I wanted for delivery w/in 2 or 3 days (and did). Priced at more like $7 or $8 a dozen. (And the manager hinted the ordering might take priority if there was the occasional jar of strawberry jam in it for him, LOL.)

But I'd have NEVER known.

Z

Weeeeell, Zabby, the original topic was "is this cranberry sauce safe to eat" so we *did* get off topic!

But seeing them in the JCP catalog (and seeing the "original" prices,even though I don't know when they were offered originally) just blew me away! And these aren't even "boutique" jars like Weck or Leifheit!

I must have the only Ace Hardware in the world without canning supplies. I just hate going to Walmart.:(

tracydr,

Will they get them in for you if you ask, though?

Z

I agree. Normally Ace is good about ordering what you need. They carry those supplies and offer them online, so basically it's the same ship-to-store option as Walmart.

Carol

I never asked. Good question.

That's how I got them in Toronto from my little Home Hardware (probably and equivalent sort of chain).

Z

Can I put up cranberry sauce with paraffin wax on top to seal it? I know it's not recommended anymore, but I used to do it YEARS ago, and it worked out fine. We don't retain stuff for a long time, so maybe that's the difference. I only can what we can use until we can get the food fresh once more.

You can if you wish. No "canning police" will come to take your jars away. :) But the point is that the wax isn't necessary if you just do the BWB processing as called for.

Dave

As Dave said, it's totally up to you. With a high-acid high-sugar product there's no food safety issue. The issues with paraffin have to do with inconvenience of application and reduced shelf life. But if you prefer it, go ahead.

There are some few people who like to use it for gift-giving because they can seal glasses and oddball but intriguing jars.

Carol

Gosh, that takes me back - I don't think I've used paraffin since a brief canning introduction in school the late 60's.

My first 'canning' experience in high school home-ec - our teacher had approx 30 of us making jelly, most including me had never seen it done. 10 cooking stations/stoves, pots of boiling sugary juices, pots of boiling jars, others of melting wax. The teacher was first year and so just about 4 years older than some of us - whatever was she thinking :)