I hope he's well.

Bill

I remember "things" were a bit tense here on the forum for awhile -- I hope that's not the problem.

However, I also hope there's no medical problem that's loomed its nasty head.

Ken's much needed here, so I hope he shows up again soon!

Kathy

I suspect this one might too.

But time passes and heals old wounds so I hold out hope he will change his mind.

Dave

If the moderator makes my inquiry disappear, too, I think it will be unfair. I just expressed a question and concern about someone that I've learned a lot from and none of the responses have been inappropriate.

I'm with you Dave, maybe he'll change his mind and give GW another go. We'd all be the better for it if he did.

jmo

Rick

TomNJ

Ken also backed me up when I was attacked by someone in regards to my doctor prescribed diabetic diet, someone who had "studied" the subject and wouldn't back down. I sure would have appreciated a moderator then rather than having to defend myself and my doctor. Some people do get overly aggressive and you have to bite your tongue and let it slide off.

Ken, come back.

He has always been most thoughtful in answering my many questions and I'm so grateful for his many offerings.

It is to be expected - that as new and younger folks take up gardening, harvesting and storing foods, that there will be the same questions asked. That is what keeps these forums so active, especially now that so many people are taking up the hobby.

Come back Ken - I miss you too.

Bejay

I don't think he was banned, but if so, it would not have been from arguing with any of the members. It would more likely have been for the things he was saying about the NCHFP. That might have caused some trouble.

Beth

Dave, if you have Ken's email addy, maybe you could C&P this thread to him??? IF you'd be comfortable with that!

Deanna

Ken,

Please come back!

Do people still get sent to Disney for a period of time when moderator gets mad? Used to happen when Spike still owned these boards.

He's one of my favorite contributers of all time on the Harvest forum.

And no, even though I agree with him in large part, I won't go into those reasons. If I did this thread would just turn into another debate on them or on the forum policies. It's best we respect his decision. He knows he is always free to change his mind later and would be welcomed back.

Dave

Hopefully he will again.

Zabby

Carol

So until the time that Ken ever wants to rejoin this group -- and I truly hope he does! -- we still have his wisdom here. It is possible to find everything he's written us in previous contributions to questions and comments.

He is not suffering from any new medical problems (although we do know from what he's previously written that he does indeed have medical issues), so be assured of that.

Have we all learned another lesson here? Perhaps.

1) Be careful how and what you write. Written words don't fly away like the spoken word -- and they are often misunderstood. It is not possible to see someone's face, read their hands, or even see their life experiences or history when we read what they write. So, a poorly written phrase lingers and can cause hurt, annoyance, and often generate defensive retaliation.

2) Accept that all of us here are "volunteers" and "helpful neighbors". No one is required to help me in my confusion or education. If someone chooses to do so it's because they care to aid me ... which means, they care for me and my wellbeing. They are taking up THEIR VALUABLE TIME to help me. If I don't appreciate the information they share or don't like the opinion they give, I must realize that "I asked for the help first." Ultimately, I am responsible for myself -- it's not up to others to rescue me.

3) When we're putting ourselves out here -- The Harvest Forum is open to anyone who wants to read and/or join the Forum. Remember that whatever your write is there for everyone in the world to read. That, alone, should keep us behaving politely!

4) And lastly, I think what we learned years ago watching "Bambi" ... If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. I don't think the Harvest Forum is the proper venue for social change.

That being said, I love this forum: reading and learning; harvesting canning vicariously through all of you; and being encouraged and inspired. I don't have many (any?) friends who enjoy canning like I do -- so all of you have been my buddies in this process. I want all of us to be here for a long, long time!

Thanks,
Kathy

Deanna

iVillage is like any other business. It's revenue-driven. The revenue comes from advertising which comes from traffic. When members say they are uncomfortable posting and are choosing to email individual members with their questions instead, traffic drops. Anything that has a deleterious impact on revenue will be noticed, especially in this economy.

I doubt the NCHFP has anything to do with it. Why should iVillage care about that?

Being kind and helpful isn't just good for the psyche. It encourages apprehensive novices to post. And that's a benefit because it keeps the forum (and iVillage) vital.

Carol

As Carol memtioned, being kind and helpful is good for us and is good for iVillage and is good for this forum. Having people send private emails to members with questions because they are concerned they will be criticized for posting does not encourage new business.

I try to be helpful and still express my opinions politely. I think we all need to do that, both here and in our lives in general.

I didn't see the "goodbye" thread, but it was not the only thread which was pulled. There were a couple where things became heated and names got called and those got deleted too.

Annie

Ken gave me a lot of good advice - as have many of you!! I went with the three-acid blend instead of just citric acid for my canning. I bought that heavy duty stove burner, removing the need to replace my glass topped stove. I upgraded my water bath canner after reading reviews on here about it - the one I bought last year had already gotten a thin spot that was getting leaky.

If Ken is reading these, I would like to also say thank you and apologize for not showing my gratitude sooner to all the time he took to respond to my questions. Thank you also to all the rest of you. I am much, much better at home preservation than I would be without this forum.

Question - why am I now freezing some of my food? Answer - Because I COULDN'T PROCESSS IT AS SOON AS I GOT IT MADE!!! Learned that one here not so long ago.

Why did I buy a pressure canner with a weight? Because I didn't want to mess with getting the gauge calibrated!!

Oh yes, I have learned a lot here.

While I’ve never suffered the wrath of Ken, in a funny sort of way, I feel like I’ve missed out on a right of passage. If you asked something easily answered by a quick search, you got a scolding from Ken and if you still stuck around, you were serious about your harvest endeavours.

I’ve learned a lot from Ken. I’ve also learned from some of the folks who may have suffered his "crusty old uncle but heart of gold persona" and stuck around to share their experiences.

If / when he returns, I think I’ll ask a stupid question just to earn my stripe.

Bill

As for answering the same questions over and over, no one HAS to. If you think it's been answered, go to the next thread. (shrug) And, I don't think there is such a thing as a "stupid" question, especially when starting out. That's why I'm here, to help and to get help.

This forum is generally a kind and friendly place. This is certainly not the first time a member here has been banned/banished/received a warning. It normally only happens when there are numerous complaints regarding personal attacks or insults. There are other forums that are much less friendly, I hope this one never gets that way.

Annie

Would you please review and let me know that either this is okay or I need to get some citric acid for next year?

Thank you Annie! You said it exactly how it is!

Dogear, would you like me to tell you what I find stupid? I find it stupid that some on here want to call others lazy and stupid for not doing searches, yet when it has been explained by us "lazy and stupid" people, over and over, (about as much as we have been called stupid and told to do a search) that we DID search, yet sometimes when we do searches, our questions are

1. Not always answered.
2. Sometimes we don't have 42 days to read through all the threads that come up on the topic when we do a search.

So I feel the need to ask, exactly who is it that you think is stupid, cause I think the shoe couldn't easily fit on another foot!

Then we get told how we don't know how to search correctly!
So we can't win with some of you.

I've also seen it explained to us "lazy and stupid" people that if we post a new thread on a topic, then it will make an old topic fall off the page into outer space and "valuable" information will be lost. I have to admit, I am still trying to understand the logic behind that one, since I notice that "rules" change through the years and new information is being released. So it seems to me that just the opposite is true...some threads need to be lost and new ones started!

One thing I have noticed is that there seem to be more threads being started since there is one less person to point out to us "lazy and stupid" people that we should do a search!

As Annie said, if you don't want to answer the question, then skip over it! Is that too difficult to do? Geez! I'm really glad when some of you started learning how to can, there were nicer people around to help you out!

Thanks to those of you that are willing to help us "lazy and stupid" people! You will never know how much I have appreciated what I have learned from some of you! You should be given an award, for not only your knowledge, but your kindness too! Now, can I get any of you to come clean up my summer garden so I can start working on my next plantings? How's that for "stupid and lazy"? LOL!

Still, like you, if I am trying to find something rather generic I get pages and pages of threads that don't answer my questions or point me to what I'm looking for.

As for threads "falling off", the oldest ones available are a couple of years old, I think that's sufficient time for anyone who needs the information to save it in their "documents" or some other folder.

That's the way the forums are SUPPOSED to work, we have discussions, then we have new discussions. That's why they are called "discussions".

Annie

Annie, believe it or not I've been around that long too (not on this Forum however) and I agree that it's good for threads to "fall away" and be replaced by new questions and answers and discussions.

Pressure canning Annie's salsa is no longer recommended; members accessing older threads may be relying upon outdated information.

Carol

I suggest that comments like this vaguely hidden criticism of Ken are uncalled for.

I would hate to see this kind of untoward discussion continue.

I beg of you, please just let it go, and get on with what we're here for.

Thanks,
Kathy

As much as you hate to see that type of discussion continue, I hate to see anyone that posts a new thread be told they are "stupid and lazy". As it has been pointed out, that type of response to new posters or anyone for that matter, is not good for this site at all and if you have been paying any attention, it has been done frequently. Makes me wonder what "valuable" new people may never leave their marks here because of it.

I'm speaking from experience since it happened to me!
Am I too sensitive? Hardly! My skin is about as thick as it can get! I'm also not afraid to speak my mind, as it seems you aren't either!

If it weren't for Annie, Carol and Linda Lou, I might have stopped coming here a long time ago.

The tone is much more pleasant here lately.

You want to lay blame? Fine - there is plenty of blame to go around. You want to criticize? Adjust attitudes? Fine - there is plenty of criticism for all to share and we all could use some adjusting.

Let the thread die and move on.

Dave

He also asked me to post this clarification on the 3 acid blend issue:

"The mention of the acid blend is ONLY used in jam and jelly making and with me needing it to be sugarless, I needed a way to prevent early spoilage which usually is prevented by lots of added sugar. The added acid blend in jams helps to prevent any, and all mold. I have jars of sugarless I made sitting in the fridge for up to a year with no apparent loss of quality or mold formations. I never said it was OK to use it for canning tomatoes, but even for that, the acidic strength in each of the acids in the blend, closely equates to all citric acid alone, but, yes, should NOT be used in a recipe that requires a known acid like citric to be substituted as in the case of canning tomatoes. Additionally, I do not use the 'fluffed up' (cup for cup) Splenda in any jelly or jam making, as its just too foamy when dissolving. Instead, I use the more concentrated tiny Splenda packets that have no real accurate way to measure, so I add it to taste instead. Obviously made with the Pomona pectin."

Dave

PS: Good post Jim. Ken is full of valuable knowledge and will be missed by most.

The only negative comments I've seen about Ken have been regarding his ostensibly hostile and/or discourteous treatment of other members. Whether you agree or disagree with anyone, it's always a better choice to be nice about it.

Annie

God be with you,
Teri

Posted by ksrogers EasternMass Z6 (My Page) on Sun, May 4, 08 at 14:52

…The word 'ham' indicates that the pork has been cooked. Pork shoulder are the front portion of a pig, the butt, is obviosuly the bake legs and hip joint. Some sauaage makes prefer the fresh shoulder, wile others prefer the fresh butt…

Posted by jimster z7a MA (My Page) on Sun, May 4, 08 at 16:12

The term "butt" cam be misleading because it doesn't follow that "obvious" meaning. It doesn't mean the butt of the hog. It means the butt portion of the shoulder. That's the big end. The small end is the picnic ham. You can buy either a whole shoulder or either portion.
Ham, not butt, refers to the rump and thigh of the hog (unless it is a picnic ham). In this case, confusingly enough, the term rump carries the obvious anatomical meaning. Ham is often cured, but fresh hams are not. They are plain, uncured pork.
To make it worse, various synonyms are used. And "portion" has a specialized, non-obvious meaning which I won't go into here. Oh, all right, I will.
A butt half is just what you would expect. The whole shoulder is cut in half, resulting in a butt end, or butt half and a pork shoulder picnic. If some slices are removed from the butt half, if becomes a butt portion, very clever and subtle labeling with tells you that some center slices have gone missing.

Jim

I cite those posts to make a point, not to disparage Ken. Despite occasional disagreements, members of the Harvest Forum have been mostly friendly to one another and sympathetic. Ken and Linda Lou, for instance, share the same chronic ailment. They support each other with useful information regarding that condition. The rest of us offer our sympathy. Who wouldn't?

Jim

Just in case you get in touch with Ken again, would you mind asking him if Cosco sells pickling salt?

I have a hard time finding it in my usual shopping places. I know that Kosher salt can also be used for pickling and brining also, but I'd just like to be able to find "pickling" kind.

Thanks - and say, "hello" for me.

Bejay

Carol

Annie

Dave

But I was in an Olympia Costco this afternoon and looked for you on the chance they would have pickling salt...they did not. Lots of salt, also sea salt, no pickling salt.

I have used the Kosher type, but it is a bit more expensive than most salt, and the directions also ask that more be used when measuring for recipes.

Will try Walmart and a new local Ace Hardware that recently went in locally - they also might carry some of my freezer containers that I like to use.

I had some issues with my brined fermented pickles this summer - but can't put a finger on the problem yet. But I will try the pickling salt. I'm thinking it might be good for brining the briskets also, and I've used up all of the special Morton's Tenderquick that I bought awhile back.

Never thought salt had so many uses, or that it took special ones for different things.

Love this forum. thanks again.

Bejay

Carol

Funny thing, I just checked my e-mail, and Ace had sent me a msg. A new sale catalog that they put out. Sure "nuf" they have the pickling salt. Now for certain, I will make a trip over to check out their brand new store. It just opened in our town this summer.

I'm also in the market for a better food processor. If they have one, maybe that will be my X-mas gift to ME. Really anxious to see how this salt turns out. I'm almost ready to do a corned beef again, and my cabbages are planted for next years "kraut" session.

Much obliged.

Bejay

Carol