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| Without strawberries? These are the hardy kiwis, tiny and furless. They taste more acidic than grocery kiwis -- too acid for fresh eating, for me, which is why I want to make jam. But flavor is not always a barometer; figs don't taste acid to me at all. Thanks for your help! |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by balloonflower CO 5b (My Page) on Sun, Nov 3, 13 at 10:55
| I've done a kiwi-lime before. Think out of the Pomona's cookbook. It turned out okay--not somethng I would do again, but I'm not a huge kiwi fan. Texture was a bit different with the seeds, though it looked fun in the jar, and the color was a little faded--may want to use some food color to make a bright green instead of the army green. |
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| Never done it but everything I read says they are a low-acid fruit - actually an alkaline fruit - so like figs and the other low-acid fruit they would need additional acid added. Without the strawberries they'd need even more. For example, the Ball Complete book has recipe for Kiwi Preserves: 4 fruit peeled and thin sliced That's a lot of added acid! The same book also has KIwi-Daiquiri Jam and it calls for 2 cups peeled, crushed fruit Again, lots of added acid. Dave |
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| They are acidic. Beverly Alfeld (Jamlady Cookbook) lists kiwifruit as 3.10-3.50 as does Livestrong.com - "Kiwifruit mainly contains quinic, citric and malic acids. Depending on its state of ripeness, the pH value of a kiwifruit varies between 3.1 and 3.96, classifying it as a “high-acid” food." |
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| Thanks, everyone! Malna, the acid numbers are super helpful :). I should have thought to google those. Dave, one of the NCHFP recipes for figs says lemon juice is optional. Yes, I find that surprising. But it tastes better with, so I always put some in, more than most recipes say, even. |
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| Good info to have malna, thanks. I tried to dig up a pH for them on all the usual food pH links but none listed it. Dave |
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| I meant to add, in her book, Alfeld references a number of species of kiwifruit, including Actinidia deliciosa, the fuzzy supermarket kiwi and Actinidia arguta, your hardy kiwi. At times, the species can make a difference in pH, but it doesn't appear so in this case. Enjoy your jam :-) |
This post was edited by malna on Sun, Nov 3, 13 at 13:09
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- Posted by readinglady z8 OR (My Page) on Sun, Nov 3, 13 at 13:49
| I dug up some scientific journals online that list pH as 3.1-3.9 (with one sample as low as 2.4). That was just a backup to Alfeld, which I also checked. This is a good example of the care required in looking at online sources. My gut feeling is a lot of sites have confused the pH of the soil required for optimal growing conditions (i.e. neutral to alkaline) with the pH of the fruit. Alfeld has a nice-sounding kiwi marmalade recipe, but I have to say for myself I wouldn't go out of my way to process kiwi. The flavor is delicate and the color retention in a preserve is a challenge. I think it shines best as a fresh fruit. However, I've done my share of experiments with preserves and there's always something new to discover. Carol |
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| Carol, you are so right about the soil pH numbers. It's quite difficult to find the actual pH of the food itself (from a reliable source). |
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| @Carol: >The flavor is delicate and the color retention in a preserve is a challenge. I think it shines best as a fresh fruit. Hmm... Do you mean you think it would have a 'blah' flavor in jam? Or more of an off taste? I have not cooked kiwis before. Maybe I should put a few in the microwave before I do the whole tub :). I just have a pint basket of them, and would welcome other suggestions about how to use them. They are too acid for me, for fresh eating as I had intended when I picked them up. I figured since I was doing fig jam I could add one jar of kiwi to a canner load. But it was just a whim -- I have never tasted kiwi jam. I also have some quinces, and the ever-present figs, if some of you think a combination would be tastier. Or a non-jam usage... |
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- Posted by readinglady z8 OR (My Page) on Mon, Nov 4, 13 at 1:19
| Kiwis need to be dead-ripe to be appealing in taste. That's when they develop enough natural sugars to counteract the acidity. I think a lot of online recipes for kiwi sound really unappealing. I mean, kiwi filling for an omelet? Are you kidding? Or kiwi bruschetta? Not in this house. I had my best luck doing an advanced search on google and specifying domains that end in .au (Australia) or .nz (New Zealand) where they really know how to use the fruit. There are all kinds of great recipes around. A kiwi-lime marmalade sounded good and could be made in a small amount. I also found a recipe for a kiwifruit, lime and coconut muffin that was appealing. If you use them in smoothies, keep in mind over-processed they become bitter. Carol |
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| My gut feeling is a lot of sites have confused the pH of the soil required for optimal growing conditions (i.e. neutral to alkaline) with the pH of the fruit. (Carol) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It might be so but: Acidity of fruits and vegetables is independent of the soil pH. Although the measurement fundamental is the same. pH is a fundamental in chemistry to calculate/measure "potential Hydrogen (ion)" , It is universal and applicable to any solution. |
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- Posted by readinglady z8 OR (My Page) on Mon, Nov 4, 13 at 12:53
| You misunderstood the point and corrected something that did not require correction. We understand that the pH of the soil and the pH of kiwi fruit are independent, not relative. Others on various websites misconstrued the data and posted an incorrect pH for kiwi fruit. The clarification should be directed to those sites. Carol |
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| Thank you, Carol, for the recipe ideas and research! That was a really kind thought :). |
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| So I did it, and the result is fantastic! Again, these are not grocery store kiwis. They are little things the size of grapes, smooth, and dark green-skinned. Based on suggestions here, I cooked just a few of them in the microwave first, with sugar, to see what they would be like. Delicious! And with only a few seconds of nuking, the jam was quite thick. I guess they contain a lot of pectin. I tried some of my sample with lime juice -- and dithered a bit, because with and without were both wonderful. I finally settled on no lime, for the more unique flavor. The little kiwis stayed whole in the jam, with thick and seedy liquid. The jam has an awesome sweet/tart taste, the way marmalade does, or green apple pie. One pint of berries made only one half-pint of jam (and a lot of taste testing). If I get back to the market while they are still in season I will make more. Or next year. This stuff is really good :). |
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| Others on various websites misconstrued the data and posted an incorrect pH for kiwi fruit. The clarification should be directed to those sites. Carol I was correcting those alleged "VARIOUS WEBSITES" not you. |
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| Seysonn, Here's a few examples. Not of kiwi in all cases, but the basic problem of not verifying what "experts say" on the Internet or taking statements out of context: Wikipedia's article on Vinegar - surely an authority, yes? "The pH of apple cider vinegar is typically between pH 4.25 and 5.00 if undiluted." Or you see one of those little excerpts under a returned search engine link that reads "The kiwi fruit has an average acidity measured at 9.5 pH." or "...kiwifruit...pH of 5.0 to 6.5..." Um, really? 1st example is dead wrong and the second is taken out of context highlighting only search terms and references a soil pH for growing kiwis. Does everybody click on the link to read the WHOLE article? Not likely. Then you get into the whole alkaline vs. acid food thing where the food ash (after you digest it) is determined to be alkaline (good) or acid (bad) . Like this one: ALKALINE FRUITS Are they "wrong"? In some cases, blatantly so. In others, acid vs. alkaline are used in a different context than we use here for determining safe canning procedures. I'm sure, when you do your own research, you will find many more alleged examples. |
This post was edited by malna on Tue, Nov 5, 13 at 9:36
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| >>>Wikipedia's article on Vinegar - surely an authority, yes? "The pH of apple cider vinegar is typically between pH 4.25 and 5.00 if undiluted." <<< That is just a bad English. "if undiluted" means : If it is not diluted. But where did you find the following: >>>"The kiwi fruit has an average acidity measured at 9.5 pH." or "...kiwifruit...pH of 5.0 to 6.5..." <<< obviously incorrect but it has has not referenced to soil pH. Practically, there is no soil pH of 9.5. And this one: >>>Then you get into the whole alkaline vs. acid food thing where the food ash (after you digest it)<<<< It is totally different subject about what the end result of those will be while digesting. Has nothing to do with pH of soil or fruits/vegetable. so all these cases have nothing to do with soil pH. , whether right or wrong. Thank you |
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| Sorry, but I've wasted enough time. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions. |
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| Posted by malna NJ 5/6 (My Page) on Tue, Nov 5, 13 at 10:42 Sorry, but I've wasted enough time. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions. Thank you . But I was not the one who made the statement, about how some internet sites mix up food/fruit pH wit soil pH.... I just asked for the source of information relating to the said issue. AND I did not ask you for anything. You volunteered the info. I don't need to do a research. I don't want to waste my time either, b,c I did not make the allegation. |
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| Seysonn, I sometimes find your comments helpful, but more often you seem to be interacting with others on the forum in a way that reads as abrasive and confrontational. That doesn't work very well with the culture of this forum, which is gentle and collegial. I would love it if you could try to phrase things in milder ways. |
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