catfish,

Some older seeds can be germinated using a few tricks. What specific kinds of seeds are you talking about?

Also, with respect to heirloom varieties and seed companies, again, what kinds of seeds are you talking about? Vegetable seeds? Flower seeds?

And if vegetable heirlooms what kinds of veggies? I ask only b/c some places specalize in certain kinds of veggies while other places have more general offerings.

Carolyn

Hi, sorry I was not more specific, I wrote this last night after my sick 4 year old niece woke me up, right before I went back to bed. IÂm looking for veggies and for the most part general seeds. The seeds that I been trying to get to germinate at acorn squash. One comp that I been thinking about ordering from is victory seeds, any body ordered from them?

Thanks for the help, again sorry for the lack of info
Matt

Some heirloom seed companies I tried or looked at last year:

http://www.Sandhillpreservation.com/

http://www.tomatogrowers.com/

http://www.heirloomseeds.com/

http://www.heirloomtomatoes.net/

And your choice of Victory is a good one. Although I've not ordered from them personally, I hear they're good.
Another one you might like is Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds at
www.rareseeds.com

Thanks, any tips to get the acorn squash seeds germinated?

going to take a look at all the links in a few

Thanks, any tips to get the acorn squash seeds germinated?

Rule #1 with old seeds is to never plant all you have.

If they haven't germinated for you so far, I'd try soaking a few seeds overnight in water, then planting in a good seed mix inside, so birdies and others won't dig them up.

But I don't think you want to start squash now in your zone, do you?

If the o/n soak doesn't work, we can up the treatment, b ut try that first.

Carolyn

hmm I posted a message last night but I see it has not shown up.

Thanks all, thanks for the tips, no i don't plan to start them yet, just a lil planning. Going to take a look at the links in a few.

Matt

Matt,

"I posted a message last night but I see it has not shown up."

It probably won't show up. The message preview looks so realistic that you may have looked at the preview and thought you had posted the message when you hadn't.

Carolyn mentioned that some older seeds can be germinated using special tricks. One trick for enhancing seed germination is Gibberellic Acid from Super-Grow.

MM

Carolyn mentioned that some older seeds can be germinated using special tricks. One trick for enhancing seed germination is Gibberellic Acid from Super-Grow.

MM,

Have you used it yourself on a variety of seeds and found it works well?

I've only used it for old tomato and pepper seed and will not use it again.

I used it and potassium nitrate, another waker upper, at various concentrations and in various combos.

Any time giberellic acid was used the plants were lanky and ridiculous when germination was obtained.

Over the years I've found that the best waker upper for old seeds is an overnight siak in water alone. Nex t I'd add 0.2 % potassium nitrate by itself for an o/n soak, but I wouldn't
use giberellic acid again, ever. Just too strong a hormone to be able to dilute it effectively in a home si tuation so that it doesn't have side effects.

Carolyn

Carolyn,

"Have you used it yourself on a variety of seeds and found it works well?"

No. I haven't used gibberellic acid in years, and never deliberately to enhance germination. I used to use quite a lot of it on zinnias, mainly to get bigger blooms. As you mentioned, if you spray it on the whole plant it gets very leggy. But I found that by spraying just the flower buds, mostly just the petals would be elongated, thus making the flowers somewhat larger.

I didn't know about the germination effect back then, but in retrospect, I should have guessed something like that was going on, because my more mature zinnia heads were actually sprouting seed in the heads. I was doing amateur zinnia breeding back then and I didn't mind that effect because I was getting two generations a year in Oklahoma and three generations a year in Texas.

Most of my seed were hand hybridized, so I just planted the green seed, many of which had emerging roots, and I would have seedlings up the next day. But that was a problem for the fall generation, because if there was a rainy spell I would lose many seed to pre-germination in the seed head.

This year I planted some fat green seed from some Peter Pan zinnias, fully expecting seedlings up in a day or two. It's much cooler here in Maine and I wasn't using gibberellic acid, so the seedlings took two or three weeks to emerge, and with a rather low germination percentage at that. Three generations a year is a luxury I won't have here in Maine.

"Over the years I've found that the best waker upper for old seeds is an overnight soak in water alone. Next I'd add 0.2 % potassium nitrate by itself for an o/n soak..."

Thanks for that information. I use warm water, or sometimes just sow the seeds in moist medium with bottom heat. Bottom heat seems to be an effective germination enhancer. I haven't tried potassium nitrate by itself but I usually water my seed flat with quarter-strength soluble fertilizer, so some potassium and some nitrate ions would be present.

I have a bunch of old hybrid zinnia seed from decades past that I plan to try to germinate this spring. I tried a few this year with zero germination. Too bad, because I had quite a zinnia gene pool going.

MM

As you mentioned, if you spray it on the whole plant it gets very leggy.

MM,

I wasn't talking about spraying it on whole plants. What I was saying is that just soaking old seeds in dilute giberellic acid leads to leggy plants if one does get germination.

A paper I read years ago said to counteract that legginess include potasssium nitrate. And concentrations were given.

So I tried all sorts of combos one winter wh en the snow was flying and I could never show an increase in germination that was different from just plain water, and I never found a ratio of GA/Knitrate that prevented legginess.

My all time record was waking up 22 yo tomato seeds that previous to treatment had zero germination. That was just with the 0.2% K nitrate.

Carolyn

Carolyn,

"I wasn't talking about spraying it on whole plants. What I was saying is that just soaking old seeds in dilute giberellic acid leads to leggy plants if one does get germination."

It's surprising to me that such a small exposure could have such long term effects. Unless you are talking about just the seedlings, which tend to get spindly for a number of reasons, including insufficient light and no simulated breeze from small fans.

"A paper I read years ago said to counteract that legginess include potasssium nitrate. And concentrations were given... I never found a ratio of GA/Knitrate that prevented legginess."

Maybe some other form of potassium that didn't contain nitrogen would have helped.

"My all time record was waking up 22 yo tomato seeds that previous to treatment had zero germination. That was just with the 0.2% K nitrate."

Interesting. So, are you saying that an overnight soak in 0.2% potassium nitrate was better than an overnight soak in plain water for the 22-year-old tomato seeds? Also, discounting the legginess side effect, did you find that 0.2% KNO3 was a better "wake up" than gibberellic acid? Also, if your "plain water" was not distilled water, have you considered that dissolved minerals in the water may have had an effect?

If I were dealing with a choice between a successful resuscitation with a legginess side effect and no germination, I would accept the leggy plants and try to nurse them into non-legginess with fans, higher light levels, adjusted day length and dark length photoperiods, and a proper balance of nutrients, lower in nitrogen.

Matt and I both have the same problem. We have a bunch of old seeds well beyond their expiration dates that we would like to germinate.

MM

thanks all and a up date.

IÂve decided to just go with www. victoryseeds.com, so many people have said good things about them and they got what I want.

I dad swears that my papal's acorn squash seeds are at least 20 years old which makes me a little nervous. I have a back up crop just incase it does not grow and if it does most of the veggies from it are going in to seed saving!! I know this means I have to do some hand pollination ect but thatÂs no big deal.

If I remember correctly last year I soaked them in water, did not do much, Mom brought that up to me last night, didn't you already try that? SheÂs interested in getting these seeds to grow because there her dads. Any other tips. I was thinking of soaking a few in water over night and then place put them in a plastic baggie with a paper towel and see if I get any growth just so I know what to expect.

Yes, I'd try a few seeds in a damp paper towel put in a baggy--put the baggy in the dark for a couple days.

I wouldn't be surprised if you get germination--after all they sprout seeds they find in pyramids. We do this all the time. Bean seeds are the most viable. Good luck--let us know what happens.

A little up date i tryed the paper towl the seeds just rotted

Matt,
I just read through this thread, and it made me feel good.

#1.The members helping you with ideas and recommendations in this thread have knowledge that surpasses many. I would take their advice and run with it.

#2. I saw your age, and thought "Wow, very cool." I myself am a young gardener by today's standards (although my preference is limited to veggies, fruits, and sunflowers) at a robust 23 years old. I learned and am still learning from my grandfather who grew up on a farm and is teaching me things I will remember when I am his age. Glad to see your aspirations into Agriculture. If I could step back in time, I would have done the same.

#3. Value those seeds you have, even if they are heirlooms that can be bought today, their strain came from a prior generation (and I am not talking genetics, more along the lines of personal value). I am sure it means alot to you today about where those seeds came from, but it will be ten fold that when you get older. So make those seeds grow and continue on with passing them down to the next generation of your family and friends.

#4. To all those helping, I would like to thank you. There were several times in my life where a vaccuum of knowledge existed in my family due to various reasons ( including the norm: a broken home). I wanted to learn of things ( outdoors, etc.) and was not able to have the knowledge passed down to me, rather I struggled to learn on my own, and at times it became lonely. I am sure your little (but nonetheless important) efforts will result in happy memories when Matt is 50 years old and sowing seeds from this stock with his grandkids. I hope Good Karma comes full circle to you all.