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Poison help!
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Posted by shadowboxer881 N.C. (shadowboxer881@excite.com) on Sun, Dec 11, 05 at 14:13
I have made a tea for my sister that includes the dried herb Lobelia. I have read many book entries and web sources related to the ingestion of this herb and im getting mixed messages. It seems that all of the reliable sources are saying moderation is a precaution with this herb and there havent even been any cases of death. Some people are saying it is incedibley poisonous and addictive. About 1 1/2-2 oz's is mixed with 1-2 oz's of 3 other safe herbs. Is 1 Tbs. of this tea blend harmful in ANY way?
Please, any help would be appreciated!
-Kat |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Poison help!
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- Posted by coing z6-7 PA (My Page) on
Sun, Dec 11, 05 at 16:10
| Do you love your sister? Why take ANY risk? |
RE: Poison help!
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| Here's the information I've put together on Lobelia. Read it, and decide between yourselves what you want to do about it. If you decide to use it, I strongly recommend ONLY using it on the advice of, and under the strict supervision of, a fully qualified medical/herbal practitioner. That way, you get a proper diagnosis of the problem you're trying to treat, plus you get the appropriate prescription and dosage. Just keep in the back of your mind that herbal medicines can be just as potent as (and sometimes more potent than) conventional medications, with similar attendant risks. Drugs are drugs, whether they are 'natural' or 'man-made'. Self-diagnosis, and self-medication, are always dangerous. Medicinal Uses: Lobelia is often prescribed for people wishing to quit cigarette smoking, because it has effects similar to nicotine with the addictive nature. Traditionally used for bronchitis, cough and upper respiratory complaints. Lobelia is also used topically for skin eruptions, poison ivy, sprains, bruises and inflammations. It can be applied by poultice, infusion or tincture. Medicinal Actions: Respiratory stimulant, anti-asthmatic, relaxant, antispasmodic, expectorant, emetic, nervine, diaphoretic, diuretic Usual Dosage: Pour 1 cup of boiling water onto l/4-l/2 teaspoon of the dried leaves, infuse for l0-l5 minutes. Take three times a day. Tincture: take 1/2 ml of the tincture three times a day. Warning: Lobelia should be used with caution in only small amounts under the supervision of a qualified medical herbalist or doctor. Do not use if you have sensitivities to nicotine, are pregnant or have heart disease. Do not use if suffering from high blood pressure. High doses result in sweating, rapid heart rate, vomiting, depression of the respiratory system, hyptotension and possible coma and death (doses as low as 50mg.) |
RE: Poison help!
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| Are you talking about Lobelia inflata? Or another lobelia? |
RE: Poison help!
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| The one I'm referring to is Lobelia inflata. Also known as Pukeweed, Indian Tobacco, Bladderpod, Emetic Herb, Asthma Weed, Vomit Wort. Gosh, with names like that, who'd WANT to use it?? |
RE: Poison help!
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- Posted by Baci z10Ca (My Page) on
Mon, Dec 12, 05 at 6:45
| When looking at herbal information, go to the university sites. There is a lot of information/claims online written by people without medical or scientific backgrounds that is incorrect &/or unsafe. Herbs are like medicine they can be used, but they need scientific studies & regulation. Like medications, they also interact. Advising someone on a garden forum as to what to take or should not take is a form of practicing medicine. As a forum user, I do not know your sister or what other factors are involved, such as her other medications, concurrent diseases, etc. Gather your information from credible sources, and have your sister take your questions to a health care practitioner who knows her. If you have an emergency situation, you should, of course contact your local poison control. Other than that, you can ask for opinions on the herbalism forum, but keep in mind, they are opinions. This is the herb forum, not the herbalism forum. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Herbalism forum
RE: Poison help!
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When i designed this tea for sinus conditions i was going by a Doctor of Naturopathy who also recieved an MA as a health practitioner, Humbart Santillo. I know you should never trust one source however. I then looked up a specific herbal entry in a complete guide to herbs, and they insisted Lobelia or "Indian Tobacco" was highly dangerous, and should not even be used as a poultice! One of Humbarts books recommended steeping 1 Tbs. of just Lobelia for mucus conditions.
I don't know who to believe, but i am not taking the risk. Thanks for all the help though. Maybe one day i'll get to the bottom of this plant! -Kat |
RE: Poison help!
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- Posted by Baci z10Ca (My Page) on
Tue, Dec 13, 05 at 8:24
Just a little bit of information as a consumer. I am very familiar with the naturopathy schools, & there are some good schools affiliated with some of the large universities. Without mentioning names, there are many ND schools that have curriculum with very, very, very sparse content. A person without any medical or scientific background can easily get a ND degree. They wont say it is easy, but if you compare the two curricula, there is no comparison. Both provide the ND degree, but one has a foundation based on science &/or medicine. The MA Health Practitioner is probably a degree out of a naturopathic program not a form of medical license. I believe CA was the last state to license ND practitioners, and that program has stopped; although there are some grandfathered in.
Herbs are drugs, and although any knowledge is helpful, in depth studies need to be done for safety. Without looking at studies as to how an herb is absorbed, metabolized, eliminated in the body - & its medical and/or disease interactions, the depth is limited and the safety is questionable. There are some good studies coming out of Germany & some of the larger universities, and it is an area coming of age. I am very much for the use of herbs in the proper hands and with the proper studies.
The last time I looked, it cost a drug companies 80 million dollars to get a single drug through. This is after the scientific studies, & they still have problems. Herbs should not be exempt. |
RE: Poison help!
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- Posted by Honu z11 HI (My Page) on
Wed, Dec 14, 05 at 17:14
| Here's a link to Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center's herb information for Lobelia inflata. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center Herb Information
RE: Poison help!
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| Loblia is one of a few herbs that will warn you ahead of time before it hurts you if your getting too much. As far as giving it to someone else, not everyone knows this, but what apply's to adults does not apply to kids. This example is what apply's to tea, but can vary for adults when treating a problem: 1 teaspoon herbs to 1 cup of water for adults 1/2 teaspoon herbs to 1 cup of water for children 10 - 14 years. 1/3 teaspoon herbs to 1 cup of water for children 6 - 10 years. 1/4 teaspoon herbs to 1 cup of water for children 2 - 6 years. 1/8 teaspoon herbs to 1 cup of water for infants and babies. This does not mean an infant needs to drink the whole cup, it's just showing how diluted the herbs are when mixed with water. Another example for getting the herbs into the little ones
that don't like the taste of the herbs, I'd mixed the cup of
tea with juice and make juice ice pops. As far as lobelia goes, if it was responsible for deaths, the FDA WOULD MAKE SURE NO ONE COULD BUY IT. This is a good herb if you want to stop smoking and is also good for some people with respiratory problems. However there is a lot of other herbs for respiratory problems that are safer.
Mullein being my favorite for allergies. |
RE: Poison help!
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- Posted by baci z10Ca (My Page) on
Mon, Jan 9, 06 at 9:09
bare4winds, you are wrong on the FDA statement. It should read there would be several case reports of death before the FDA pulls it. Also, herbs are not FDA regulated. Furthermore, there are instances on drugs going through the Phase IV drug testing that have resulted in severe problems resulting in the drug being pulled because they simply took a long time to show up. When a drug is studied, the children and pregnant women are not included until the later stages because they know it is unsafe and can result in severe liability issues. I do not see studies of Lobelia going through such rigorous testing, especially in children.
If you want to use herbs, do so at your own risk &/or experiment on your own children.
Good link, Honu.
Also, this topic belongs on the herbalism forum this is a herb forum for the growing of herbs. |
RE: Poison help!
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| The FDA doesn't care what anybody grows in their gardens. A lot of our common flowers are extremely poisonous (foxglove, monkshood, lily of the valley, castor beans, - the list goes on and on). Many of our common herbs are not only poisonous but addictive (wormwood). The only good guide is exercise extreme caution and if you're not sure it's harmless, don't ingest it. And certainly don't give it to others. |
RE: Poison help!
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| (if it was responsible for deaths, the FDA WOULD MAKE SURE NO ONE COULD BUY IT). I was thinking about Ephedra when I made this comment. It's funny that the drug companies can continue to add it to their product's, but the herb companies can't. It was a good herb, just use wrong, and by standardizing, it put the poison on the icing. A great source of knowing what is safe for you and yours, is to know how to use Applied Kinesiology. A.K. does not only apply herbs, but to everything you use or put in your body. |
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