This is a very contentious topic & everyone has a right to thier own opinion, but I'm definitely not a fan of outdoor cats.

They'll not only "possibly" kill your rodents, but also lizards, birds, snakes, baby rabbits, you-name-it. They're not particular. In addition, all these animals carry a plethora of external & internal parasites that will certainly keep your vet happy as he charges you to treat your cats for them.

And then you have the fact that the cat isn't exactly tops in the Food Chain. They fall prey here to fox, coyote, stray dogs, & the good old automobile. In fact, my vet told me that the #1 cause of early death in cats is allowing them outdoors.

Oh, and forget about any ideas concerning confining the cats to your property. Cats are cats. Regardless of what you do, they'll still wander. And if your neighbors aren't fond of them killing wildlife, that's yet another problem.

If you do decide you want a few "barn cats", please don't fall prey to the idiotic suggestion that you not feed them, or feed them inadequately, in order to make them "better mousers". That's the biggest & cruelest old wives tale still going around. Unless morbidly obese, cats will chase anything that moves, whether they're hungry or not - it's instinct.

I know a woman who has her cats on leashes in her yard for part of the day. she thought they would get rid of her mole problem but they have been de-clawed. Everytime I have stopped there those cats were tangled in something. otherwise, I thought it was a good idea as she lives in a city type setting and the cats got to go outside for a change. But what if a neighborhood dog was lose? Those cats would be dessert and with no claws they couldnt defend themselves.

Marie

I've lived in homestead situations for over 30 years, and had cats around most of those years, though not always. My observation is that a lot depends on the nature of the individual cat, as some will catch mice and birds almost exclusively, while some will seem to go for gophers, snakes, butterflies, bats, etc.

The most recent cat we had (died a shade over two years ago) was of the former kind - a good mouser, but little interested in rabbits, bats, snakes. Can't remember him catching any of these. His ratio was roughly 65% field aqnd house mice, 35% birds.

Mind you, we've always fed the cat a basic daily ration, so starvation was never a problem.

Cats generally catch the less wary or nimble among birds. And since we have three birdfeeders (with sunflower seeds), we always saw a very great deal of healthy, unscathed bird population around. No lack of songbirds. The presence of or lack of a cat seems to make no appreciable difference in the abundance of birds. (Besides, we keep the bird feeders up above the level where it helps a cat to find birds to pounce on.)

Like I say,much depends on the individual habit of the cat in question. This is admittedly hard to judge when acquiring a kitten.

Joel

I have to admit to loving a cat for 22 years. When I first built my place and was dirt poor, she would augment my diet by bringing me a rabbit now and again. That said, the time for pets is over...we prefer the wildlife and their independence. We live in a state forest a mile and a 1/2 away from a small rest area on a scenic road. Many folks over the years have thought this was a great place to rid themselves of unwanted pets...dogs and cats. I can't count the number of animals we've had to shelter, calm and find homes for. Please people, if you have pets be responsible and have them 'fixed'...
We have a cat that is feral living on our land right now. We've taken to feeding her in hopes of gaining her trust and finding her a home. Feeding her also keeps the number of birds she destroys down. She does eat squirrels, which are responsible for the deaths of many songbird young (and eggs)...
I can't bring myself to shoot a cat or dog, for some reason...so tame her we must.

We adopted a couple of kittens last year for the specific purpose of being barn cats. They do a great job of ridding our property of mice, voles, and my personal favorite - moles! I find them laying around. Our barn burned down in January during the time of the new one being built, they have gotten to the point where they usually only go out at night and come in to "sleep it off" during the day in the house. I have stopped feeding the birds like I used to - no sense in setting a "trap" for them. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over one or two lost sparrows. So basically, I don't think you can really have your cake and eat it to, so to speak. Cats are cats. When outside they will hunt, thats the instinct the good Lord gave them. We love birds, but personally, we get far greater pleasure, laughs and entertainment from our kitties. Thats just us.:)

Aloha Kokosnood,

We keep one cat and she keeps the mice out of the house but also catches small birds when she can. (Which she then brings into the house to dismember, euwe!.)

She has been fixed though, since I think feral cats are more of the problem to wildlife than your domestic cat. Cats wander, but they stay pretty close to home even when wandering and I'd suspect your wildlife stays away from houses so their two ranges may not overlap all that much. Of course, the only "wild life" around here is wild pigs (too big for the cat to catch) and mongoose (too vicious for the cat to catch) and that's about it except for birds so I'm just speculating. You will know more about your wild life than I.

A hui hou,
Cathy

It's a bit ridiculous to expect a cat to not fullfill it's purpose on this Earth or to go against it's very nature. Birds aren't stupid, they watch for cats and stay away. I don't think cat's care about lizards, they care more about little furry moving things and insects.

Cat Deterrents for your Garden:

Keep in mind that each cat is different (like people), a deterrent that works for one may not necessarily work for another. On the plus side, most cats will keep pesty squirrels, moles and other critters out of your garden. They're great for keeping out moles, rabbits, squirrels, and other critters which can do more damage in your garden than a cat ever will. If the cats have owners, talk to them without being confrontational. The cat owner who allows his cat to damage other peoples' property is as guilty as the cat hater who kills the cat for trespassing. Remember, cats will be cats, and it is unfair of us to blame them for being what they are and how nature intended them to participate in this world. After-all, we praise them when they catch mice or rats or other creatures we deem to be 'pests'.

* amonia soaked (corncobs, etc)
* aluminum foil
* bamboo skewers
* black pepper
* blood meal fertilizer
* bramble cuttings
* Carefresh - "recycled" wood pulp
* catnip - donated into your neighbor's yards (so they'll stay in their own yards)
* cedar compost
* chicken wire (metal or plastic)
* cinnamon
* citrus peels
* citrus spray
* cocoa bean shells
* coffee grounds -fresh & unbrewed, not just a light sprinkling (highly recommended by MANY Gardenwebbers!)
* dogs
* electric fence for animals
* essence of orange. essence of lemon, lime (citrus essential oils)
* fresh manure(ditto)
* garlic cloves
* gumballs from the Sweet Gum Tree
* gutter covers
* hardware cloth
* heavy bark mulch
* holly leaves
* keep the area damp, they like dry soil
* lavender
* liquid manure (good for your garden too)
* motion sensor sprinkler
* pennyroyal
* pinecones
* pipe tobacco
* plastic forks
* predator urine
* red wine vinegar
* river rocks over the exposed soil
* rocks, crushed
* rose bush clippings
* rue, an herb (Ruta graveolens) (highly recommended in plant form only)
* short twigs throughout the planted area about 6" apart
* six-inch bamboo skewers (pointy side up)
* Spray on your leaves (not the cat): fill a spray bottle with 1/2 t chili powder, 1/2 t cayenne pepper, 1 t dish soap and water
* squirt gun with water
* talk to your neighbors
* tansy
* thorny berry, lilac, hawthorn, rose clippings
* toothpicks
* upside down vinyl carpet
* vinegar sprayed on areas where they roam
* water bottle on "stream"

NOT RECOMMENDED:
*** chili powder, red crushed pepper, cayenne pepper (NOT recommended), it gets on the cat's paws then they wash themselves and they get it in their eyes, beware cats have literally scratched their eyes out because of this. Even if it's one cat out of 500 infected in this way, that's one too many for me.
*** Don't ever use mothballs or flakes. Those little toxic waste pellets destroy cats' kidney function, could seriously harm people who handle them, and yes, contaminate your own garden soil. Their packaging even warns against using them this way.

Give them their own areas:

(To keep them out of where you don't want them)
(If you don't mind them protecting your garden from other critters)

+ pick the cat up and bring it to eye level with the plant to see and smell it up close. She noted that once her cat has seen and sniffed at the plant, she usually doesn't bother with it later.

+ give them their own plants - i.e., pots of grass for her to chew on and a place in a large planted container on her balcony with some miscanthus grass in it (the cat likes to curl up in that for some reason)

+ if the cats are strictly indoors and attracted to your houseplants, grow catgrass for them. If someone forced you to remain inside one enclosed structure all your life, you might be attracted to the plants too.

+ Barley Grass
+ Any type of "catgrass" from the pet store
+ Carex elata 'Bolwes Golden' but put it in some shade
+ Catmint Nepeta mussinicultivars (Simply put, Catmints are Catnips without any culinary or feline use. In any case, they are, however, phenomenal, long flowering, hardy perennials that belong in every fairie or flower garden.)
+ Catnip Nepeta cataria (in your own yard) The oils of which also work as a mosquito repellent that works 10 times better than Deet! Catmint is the common name for all varieties of Nepeta. Catnip is the common name for the specific variety of Nepeta called nepeta cataria, which is the variety that cats are most attracted to.
+ Cat Thyme (Teucrium marum)
+ Flax
+ Oat Grass
+ Jacob's Ladder
+ Lemon Grass
+ Loose soil and mulch like small bark mulch
+ Mints
+ Purple Fountain Grass so the cat lays in the long leaves all day. Maybe put something in that the cats really like and - you know cats won't winky were they like to hang out.
+ Sandy area
+ Silver vine (Actinidia polygama)
+ Striped Ribbon Grass (can be invasive)
+ Sweet grass
+ Trificum aestivum (type of cat grass)
+ Various Varieties of Cat Mints (Catnips)
+ Wheat Grass
+ Wheat Berries
+ Valerian

This list compiled by Violet_Z6, email at violetgw@care2.com for comments and suggestions regarding this list.

I read in the paper a couple of months ago that a guy in Wisconsin or Minnesota is trying to get a law passed allowing people to shoot feral cats. It said they have a huge problem with too many wild cats. The article said (and I've also read it elsewhere) that cats, both feral and domestic, are responsible for killing MILLIONS of songbirds every year in the US alone. ...that's what cats do.

While I don't currently own a cat, we always had 2 or 3 when I was growing up. While cats do kill lotsa birds, bunnies, mice, etc.. I disagree completly that cats should be kept indoors exclusively. ...that's what cats DON'T do.

I love cats but they are kept strictly indoors. I don't think its kind to them, or to the environment, to let them wander unsupervised outdoors.

Our 18 year old spayed female barn cat died this year and we just got two male kittens from a neighbouring farm to replace her. We will have them neutered and vaccinated and will treat them just as we treated her. They will get fed once a day with good quality food, be petted whenever we see them, but they will not be allowed in the house. Outdoors is a cat's natural environment. That is where they really belong. It is not unkind to let them live there. We need working cats in our barn, or the rats start taking over.

I assume we are not talking about the city on this forum, or about declawed cats.

as 2 the original post, the cats will kill the rodents anda few birds, its their nature. just keep 'em fed, watered and a touch of love there won't be no problems.

my cat at 1/2 yrs would lay with the chickens and chase/ be chased by the boys rabbit. depends on how they are raised.

for what its worth...

My neighbor has cats that roam my yard daily,killing squirrels and birds, using my gardens as litter boxes and my trees as scratching posts. It drives me crazy. I have talked to them and they say, cats can't be kept indoors. WHY? Or PUT THEM ON LEASHES!!!I understand that cats instinctively do these things, but this is what I don't understand about Cat OWNERS. If I let my dog run wild, there would be hell to pay. Yet CAT People seem to think that it is okay to let their animals roam without supervision. I plan on catching the cats soon and taking them to the ASPCA. Anyone have any suggestions before I do this drastic thing?

I think if you have close neighbors you need to be considerate of their feelings concerning your cats if they wonder loose. I have 5 cats - all males and neutered. They are indoor/outdoor cats, but we live on a dirt road and we have no close neighbors. Our cats are fed as much as they want to eat and they come and go outdoors whenever they ask to go out. While an occasional bird is killed ( I see maybe 4 a year near the house)they don't seem overly intent on killing the birds. Each cat is different. Most of them love to hunt i the hay fields for mice and probably rabbits but that is okay with me. We have plenty of both! My cats are all very healthy and we say they are too fat and lazy! I DO feed birds right from the tree in my front yard. My bird feeder hangs high enough in the tree that I use a step ladder to fill it. The area around the tree is clear of anything the cats can hide behind - this makes a big difference because they cannot suprise the birds easily. My oldest cat is about 11 and the youngest is less then a year. I didn't want the fifth, but we found him meowing in the engine block of my husband's car. No idea where he came from. He was barely old enough to be away from his mother. Our female golden retreiver took to him right away and laid down and tried to nurse him! It was hilarious and touching. She even tried to 'protect' him from our other dog! We tried to find him a home but of course no one wanted him and the humane society said he would be put to sleep as they had to many already. Now he's part of the family. We have lots of people 'dump' animals on our road as we are one of two houses on this dirt road. If you are going to have animals and not use them for breeding purposes - get them fixed! Sorry for the ramble - I meant to say that I think keeping a cat indoors all the time if it's not necessary is a bit cruel. I know if you live in town that it is necessary, but their lives seem so enriched by being out in nature. If you kept them well fed they are less likely to kill much. Just my 2 cents.
Karen

I am a former veterinary technician and current animal control officer. By and large, cats should live indoors. If an owner is concerned about the cat's general health and the populations of wild songbirds at all. Visit this site for more information about cats' effect on the songbird population...http://www.abcbirds.org/

Cats that live exclusively indoors are healthier. They live longer lives. They do not face the perils of traffic, fighting with other cats which results in eye and facial injuries and abcesses, fox and coyote predation, the list goes on. The do not have a negative impact on the wildlife populations in the area and they are undoubtedly in compliance with any ordinances that are present in city or county codes.

Many people in our rural community do not realize that cats are required to be either on their owner's property or in their owner's DIRECT physical control. Cats that wander the neighborhood are considered to be "at large" and can be impounded and the owners cited just as if their dog were running around loose. It is always wise to inquire about the actual ordinances in your community rather than assume that cats are free to roam.

Many folks won't accept that a cat can be trained to live exclusively indoors. I have two that are completely content. Both came to me as strays from the Shelter or clinic where I worked at the time. They were picked up as "outdoor cats".

My parents recently had a change of lifestyle where they moved, with their two cats, from a rural town of 1500 people where they allowed the cats to roam outdoors at will to a high traffic neighborhood that required that the cats be housed indoors for their own safety. The cats were inhappy for a couple of weeks and then settled right in to a new, healthier lifestyle. In my current work as an officer, I see that most people are just too stubborn to obey the ordinances of our community and they utilize the "cats don't live indoors" argument as an excuse to break the law.

Cats that roam are a hazard to themselves and the wild animal populations that we all like to see in our yards and gardens. They are a traffic hazard. They are a nuisance to neighbors' flower beds and sleeping patterns.

If a cat must spend some time outdoors that's swell but the owner should invest time and energy in keeping the cat on site and safe from harm. There are some super cat containment systems available or there are plans available to construct on yourself. It allows Fluffy the cat to spend time in the fresh air chasing bugs and sniffing around without endangering himself or the songbird/lizard/rabbit/squirrel populations.

Lastly, while our shelter sees an 85% rate of owner reclamation for dogs, we only see a 14% rate of owner reclamation for cats brought to our shelter. This is a DIRECT result of the owners' failure to identify their cats with collars and tags. There are safe collars for cats on the market and most any cat can be trained to wear a collar with some persistence from the owner. This would really help to get cats back home when they are lost and at large.

Just my .02 as someone that deals with this question on a daily basis.

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum. Has anyone ever tried guinea fowls instead of cats? They are known to root out vermin such as mice and rats, also known to chase down and kill snakes. Also if you have a large problem with lyme disease-bearing deer ticks then you should have guinea fowls on your land!! they also take care of your bug problems in your garden and don't ruin your plants, but if you have bees I would not have guinea fowls. They will stand by a beehive and eat all the bees flying in or out of the hive! They also are good to eat. Some say even better then chicken

Get a "havaheart " trap and send the offenders (cats) to the animal control . I have seen cats harrass and kill domestic chickens and rabbits they have wiped out some rare species on some islands (including th dodo bird)and are continuing to do so to other species including seabirds.
Squirrels caught in the house can be drowned it this state (MA) but cannot be "deported".
Cat owners can make a "cat corral" 4 sides and a roof of chicken wire . Friends of mine had one it worked very well .
There is a lady who is breeding "twisty cats " that has taken a lot of hate mail. these cats have deformed front legs . Well AT LEAST THEY WON'T ROAM AND KILL they are designed from the beginning to be "real house cats " and stay in the house only.
There is another person who is looking for cats with more than one tail to start a new breed. people have said they have never heard of "adding apendages " well in the Boston Mass. there developed a double and later tripple pawed breeds . Later Hemmingway crossed these with Havana cats and developed "Hemingway cats" an established breed.
Cats can kill poultry, tip over bait buckets, foul childrens sand boxes ( they now make a turtle type with a sealing lid just because of cats) spread disease.
If you want barn cats , keep them confined to the barn !
Their fecal matter can case birth defects in human children . Cats have a place in our society . keep them in there place BEFORE the legislatures force you to do so . There are leash laws for dogs and some breeds have been banned from some towns (rottweilers & pitbulls ) . Some people can not get insurance for there homes because they own some breeds of dogs (shepards and large dogs as well as the breeds mentioned). Pitbulls cannot be adopted from from some shetlers except by there owners or they will be destroyed after 30 days .
Some breeds of cats and other animals that are crossbred with wild animals have been banned from some states .
So volentary responsible cat (and pet ) ownership should be what we all should do ! If not the only cats we might be able to own in the future might be " squirrel cats" and "twisty cats" because they are to deformed to do damage ( kill or roam ) . DO NOT DO THIS TO ME ! SOMEDAY WHEN I GET A BARN I WANT CATS TO KILL STARLINGS, SPARROWS ,WEASELS AND RODENTS ! THANK YOU !

We have a stable population of about 10 barn (semi feral)cats that have arrived at various times from other barns in the area. We have trapped and neutered/spayed our group and they do a good job of keeping other new cats out of their territory. They get food, fresh water, affection, and in return we have a a homestead mostly free of mice, moles, voles, woodchucks, and rabbits. We have fifty acres. There are hundreds and hundreds of acres all around us for those creatures to exist, and they have eventually figured out to avoid our place, which makes gardening and harvesting much more productive. We have bird feeders on poles with baffles to prevent cats from jumping up to get them...we have rarely seen a cat with a bird or a dead bird in our almost 20 years here. We have had our barn cats vaccinated, and if one seems sick or injured we take it to the vet...they all have names and all have their own unique personalities and add another dimension to our lives. We also have two house cats which were abandoned kittens when we found them. We have chickens which the cats have never bothered. I can see in another situation that it would be better for everyone involved if cats were kept indoors. In our situation, with neighbors quite a distance away, this works out for us. Cats will always be with us. The ONLY way
to curb their reproduction is to spay/neuter them, and there are spay/neuter programs out there that are subsidized so that you pay nothing or next to nothing for the service.

Sigh
Yes, I've heard that line "Cats in North America kill 110 million song birds a year."
Firstly if it only that many, we're getting off lightly.

Perspective: There are 500 million people in North America.
I'm pretty sure on our place I've got at least a score of breeding pairs of goldfinch, crown sparrow, purple finch, chickadee and robin. I know of at least 5 breeding pairs of hairy woodpecker/downy woodpecker.

And the field has a zillion or so LBJ's that move too fast for me to identify. I'm certain that birds outnumber people on this continent by at least 100:1 and likely more than 1000:1.

A 110 million to cats is peanuts.

The issue isn't cats. Birds have dealt with predators since the year dot. The issue is habitat. Give them a place to feed, a place to nest, and you get lots of birds.

One of my two cats likes birds, but is incredibly inept at catching them. Mostly gets window bouncers. The other one will chase anything that moves: Mice, voles, birds, string, laser dots, and both dogs.
Between them I'm pretty sure they get 10 to 50 birds a year. It's evolution in action. And it's tough to be a mouse around here.
They are outside cats year round. (My wife is allergic to cats) They have an assortment of carpeted spots in the sun and out of the wind on porches and corners of the garage. By winter's end Punt, The Mighty Hunter is 50% fur. (He sheds entire side at once: Looks like a hairpiece lying on the lawn.)
They are set up with demand feeding: Bowls put up high because the dogs think that cat food tastes better than dog food. (The bluejays agree.)
We wouldn't have cats if they didn't earn their keep as mousers.

As to the gent who was fussing about shooting feral cats: Here you can shoot ANY non-game nuisance animal, and can usually get permission to shoot any animal at all if you can demonstrate crop or lifestock damage. My dog goes to a neighbors -- he has the right to shoot it.

Usually you will get a call, and then you have another training month with your dog to try to teach it the boundaries.

I wouldn't attempt to try to train a cat that way. I enjoy the neighbours cats when they visit. I hope the neighbours enjoy mine. But then, I've only got 10neighbours within 4 miles of my place.

Cats can kill chicks and chickens and can get rabies so beware !

The problem is not that they may be killing lbj's in your field, its that they add extra pressure to species already suffering from habitat loss. Think of hummingbirds, there habitats along the migratory paths have been reduced in some cases to islands of urban gardens, and then those islands are crawling with cats, so all of the hummingbirds coming through are funneled into the jaws of the cats, and fewer and fewer make it each year. Extinction is about death from all causes, cats might not be the biggest problem, but they certainly have been the straw that broke the camels back for many species.