The freezer fills up during the growing season but I'm not real inclined to store chicken feed in there. I'd be willing to grow field corn but don't want all the husking and shelling and cracking. What else could I grow and store for the hens?

Steve

The Palouse is all dry farmed. The garden, of course, has irrigation and fairly fertile soil. With a little over one-half acre of gardens, I've got some room but wouldn't want to give up more than a few thousand square feet to growing feed.

Comfrey?? I knew that it can be used as hay so thought that cows, goats, and maybe rabbits could make use of it. Do chickens eat comfrey?

Plenty of alfalfa next door and I've read about Joel Salatin and others using pasture but hay as an important part of a chicken's diet hadn't occurred to me.

Steve

Catherine

I'm still curious about hay . . . I suppose that would be the least appropriate for garden production but I wasn't aware that it could be of much use for poultry. Generally, my hens had free time most days. They had access to a lawn and certainly enjoyed eating some of the grass but only spent a little time at it. Vegetables have usually been an important part of their diets and maybe I could think of a way to dry veggies in quantity.

Squash is a favorite - cooked. And, squash can be stored for some time in the basement. I'm not sure how far I could go down this road and still maintain egg production . . . maybe quite a ways . . ? . .

I have thought about sunflowers but have no desire to crack sunflower seeds for the hens. And, that brings up the problem with their being able to swallow some foods. Could they swallow a whole dry pea? Are there more appropriate legumes - dry beans wouldn't require trellising but surely they are too large. Keep in mind that the "bird house" is empty right now. My hope is to have hens again next year and to make good use of garden produce.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful replies.

Steve

They are eating all these things raw - peels, cores, onions . . . They probably appreciate the processing.

I was able to feed the hens any vegetable or fruit as long as it was cooked. Of course, they liked some things raw. And by anything, I mean that as an experiment, I pulled up dandelion plants, roots and all. After cooking, the hens would eat every last bit. If I put in a little oatmeal, they would eat it faster.

I began to feel sorry for them with all the potato peels so cut back a little on that. But, carrot peels were one of their favorite foods. An entire meal of the outer leaves of lettuce, cabbage, apple cores, onion leaves, a slice of old bread, a cup of grape juice - cooked together would start a feeding frenzy.

Did you need to hull the sunflowers, Miss?

Steve

Our six hens get a cup of cracked corn to share amongst themselves in the morning just so they will come up to the window and lay their eggs in the window nest box, but that's all the feeding they get other than scraps and whatever bugs and grasses they get from the back yard although it is a pretty big back yard. I've seen them eat small mice and large centipedes, so they can eat pretty big things. You could feed them field corn by just tossing a few ears of corn in there, they will probably manage to eat corn on the cob. Get a few ears and try it out, they might surprise you.

I think egg production is going to go down during the winter no matter what you do since they seem to lay eggs in accordance with how much sunlight there is. Guess you could give them sunlamps, but will the increase in the electric bill be less than what it would cost to buy eggs?

After the first frost kills off the garden, you could turn the hens out there to eat the remaining bugs and plant leaves. That might save on feed for a couple weeks or so.

The better I cared for the hens, especially during our cold Winters, the better they laid. Yes, it would be very easy to spend more money than the purchase price of the eggs. But, I don't think they could have better feed than what I could grow for them and prepare in the kitchen. I’m fairly certain that it need not be anywhere close to a commercial formula.

I've seen the hens eat a huge variety of "things" including mice. However, I don't recall having ever seen them eat a dandelion, roots and all - unless it was cooked.

Joel Salatin, of pastured poultry fame, said that a chicken's diet could consist of as much as 30 percent from pasture grasses and legumes. And, I seem to recall that both humans and chickens benefit from a 12% to 18% protein diet. We both appreciate variety. Just makes me wonder how much more and what I could grow in the gardens to keep a small flock of hens happy, healthy, and highly productive.

Steve

I would think a variety of things would be a good plan since then it can be extras of what you'd be growing for yourself and if there was a lack of some vitamin or nutrient in a basic feed, that would be covered by a variety feed. If it is just a few hens, you could almost feed them on table scraps. Cook up extra and be "wasteful" about what you don't want to eat and then give the leftovers to the hens.

Today, our six hens got a half cup of cracked corn with smushed up eggshells from boiled eggs in it, an old papaya, two old mushy avocados, a quarter loaf of old bread, an old lime and some pig/bean soup. They didn't seem thrilled with the lime, but ate everything else and then went grazing on the lawn and chasing bugs. Yesterday they were helping me till the garden, so they got loads of worms. Guess those have a lot of protein in them?

Of course, I have no idea if this is good or bad for egg production since they are molting now and looking like old feather dusters and not laying.

At some point, I'd like to go ahead and have a sufficient flock and sufficient eggs to have "egg money" from sales. If the hen is only eating laying mash each day - that's giving any and all $ to the feed store.

Yes, usually I have only a few hens most years so left-overs make a significant contribution especially since they appreciate peelings. But, I found that even 4 hens can eat more than what 3 people can generate, even if the people are eating a lot of unprocessed foods year around. What I don't want them to do is to have too much "junk" food even if that's just too much carbohydrates and insufficient protein.

I was recently reading information from a century ago on feeding hens a balanced ration. The author was saying then, "Look, if you feed a hen only wheat even with a calcium supplement, she needs to eat for 3 days before she has sufficient protein to lay 1 egg. And, it doesn't help to give her enough carbohydrates and fat to make three eggs a day." (I'm paraphrasing. ;o)

A variety of things would be great plan but I don't want to pack a few hundred pounds of potatoes or squash down to the basement and then need to buy fish meal, for example, at $2 - $3 per pound.

My most recent thoughts have been on grains and legumes (as per advice above :o). I used to grow this for hay on the farm. Barley should produce more pounds than wheat in a garden and combined with field peas - I think that the grain would be a nutritious feed. I can actually grow these 2 crops together (as I did with hay) and thresh them at the same time. Hulless barley seed is available thru the sprout people.

If they aren’t willing to eat this readily, it could be sprouted. I bet they’d enjoy that.

Yeah, the worms . . . each year I have large compost piles which include a pickup load or 2 or cow manure. By Spring the worm population is almost FRIGHTENING in there! Since it would almost make sense to only grow a high protein feed . . .

Steve's digits

More recent information has been written by Harvey Ussery - I came across it today. Kind of funny that I was reading an article in Mother Earth News at the library today on cultivation by Ussery and here is all this "poultry stuff" on the internet.

Here's Ussery's webpages on poultry. And, here is Backyard Poultry magazine for Jun/Jul 2007 with articles on preparing feeds at home. Ussery's own site has his articles in Backyard Poultry during 2006. He's got a lot of ideas and certainly isn't shy about experimenting.

This is probably familiar to some of you but I had no knowledge of this magazine until just a week or so ago and still haven't seen a copy.

digital Steve

I'm guessing that the alfalfa could be made even more palatable and probably a higher percentage of total feed would be possible if it was really boiling water used and the feed was allowed to cook sometime (perhaps in an insulated container). I should hasten to add, that I doubt if much more than 20% of the diet would be a good idea unless some greater variety of greens or dry plants could be included.

I found it helpful to read the information on feeding hens in "Selection and Feeding of Laying Hens," A.G. Philips, 1910; or, Milo M. Hastings, "The Dollar Hen," 1911. John R. Henderson of Sage Hen Farm in Lodi, NY has provided a great service in compiling the links.

Steve

Unfortunately I have no chickens but I make my own dog food despite all the naysayers that say it is unhealthy. They are wrong if you learn what the needs are and supply them with a variety of foods.

Anyway- here is the link. You have to cruise around but it mentions sources of various nutrients needed, the ratios, whether or not the chickens are free range or not, etc.

The "authoritative" folks sometimes seem to have the interests of those others in mind. Other than the little guy's, I mean. Perhaps, they are inclined to error on the side of caution, is all. But, one wonders whose bottom line they are looking out for when they make it appear as tho' nothing can be done differently than what conventional wisdom allows. It would make absolutely no sense monetarily, for someone to raise chickens using conventional feeds in a small flock. There may be other concerns but the little guy's bottom line would prohibit especially the raising of meat birds in that fashion.

Steve

With that being said the nutrition in commercial poultry feed has been optimized... to provide the cheapest values of the nutrients needed. Is that the best? I don't necessarily think so. Protein is the most expensive part of feed... (corn is climbing up in price....) alternative protein sources could bring feed-prices down substantially. Some raise meal worms (I don't advocate this, as they are kind of gross and there's a lot of debate about whether or not the heads need to be cut off to prevent them from "eating" their way out of young birds....) they've got a very high EWWW factor in my book. Another option is vermiculture... or raising specific species of earthworms for feed (some suggest that you can introduce parasites to your birds by feeding worms, but I contend that you can start with a clean group and grow your feed worm populations separate from bird droppings). Worms can be dehydrated and mixed in with other "non-traditional" (while in fact really more-traditional) feeds.

Another possibility for home growing is Millet. I've read the white varieties are more nutritious for the birds than the red ones. I just pulled a few seeds from bird seed last year to test grow, and they did beautifully with benign neglect. They take less water and have a shorter growing season than wheat, and supposedly, a slightly higher nutritional value for the birds than does corn.

When it comes to feeding a home flock, I think variety is the spice of life! You are better feeding a bunch of different things, and seeing what is consumed by the flock. They often "self-regulate" their diet and eat according to their needs. Just make sure you are providing a calcium source so that they get enough of that, as I've read they often eat a lot of certain things to get enough of that.

Someone referenced Dandelions... they are a definite yes! High in nutrients, due to long tap root.... If you hang the greens, so the birds can peck pieces of leaves off they do well with them. (or chop very fine, so they don't get crop bound.) When birds are out on the ground, they eat a lot of greens we don't even notice them consuming... as they just peck a little off the edge... in winter they don't have so much access, so they need a little help from us... Growing kale and collards can help provide a little green feed through winter, though too much crucifers (cabage/brocoli/kale family) tends to give an off flavor to eggs. In Zone 6 I've set up a "hoop greenhouse" with pvc pipe and a 6 mil drop cloth... and succesfully harvested greens through most of the winter (and then they started growing early in spring) one year... need to get back to this myself...

Sunflowers have also been mentioned... they rock... young birds don't show much interest, but wait a few months and they'll devour them whole! They have a good protein value and the birds scarf them up!

Those sunflower kernels are about 20% protein. I can't imagine that including the hulls would lower that number even by half but don't know for sure.

I've grown a little millet and a little wheat for the past few seasons - not for hens but for use in wreath making. They are easy to grow but I was hoping for something producing a little heavier in the garden. I was a little disappointed to learn that they are both about as productive. They are a possibility but I'd need to give up quite a few square feet of garden space for the hens.

I've been looking a little at aquaculture. Not because I'm thinking of raising fish but because feed requirements are similar. Fish farms make a lot of use of fish meal - a major component in chicken feeds. Plant proteins and carbohydrates are difficult for some fish species to eat so their feed costs are very high.

I have had a little experience with subsistence farming in developing countries. A hen searching out her own food is not always such a great way to care for her. Foraging burns energy and is often risky business. Even if a flock requires only 5 or 10 pounds of food every day - they will need to range far and wide to find it. The result may well be a poor diet and poor egg production.

The birds require carbohydrates especially in cold weather but protein is such a major part of an egg (higher than 12%), it makes little sense to think a hen can produce many eggs if she has a carbohydrate-rich diet of say, 6 or 8% protein. She'd get fat, at best.

I had pigeons for over 10 years and while it was just for fun, I got to talk to the local pigeon guys about their birds' diets. Many like to give corn during the Winter to increase the calories available then switch to barley in the Spring so that the hens will begin producing eggs rather than heat.

I wish that root crops were higher in protein and lower in carbs. Heck, I must have grown over 100 lbs of potatoes in a single row of about 35 feet this year. And, I don't know about that old approach of feeding mangel beets - beets are only about 1% protein and I doubt that mangels are much higher. I've always read that Jerusalem artichokes are a higher protein root vegetable but a little research doesn't seem to bear that out - about the same as potatoes at 2%.

I used to harvest the neighbor's Jerusalem artichokes and loved the nutty flavor but I'm kind of glad that they wouldn't really make a very good feed. They are a rather invasive perennial. The neighbors just left them to fight it out with the grass and weeds - with the tiny size of the tubers, it was hard to know which was winning.

As far as people food, eggs are about the cheapest protein available. But buying them to feed to the hens doesn't make any sense . . . Yep, the protein issue is the tough nut to crack. (No, I don't think I'll live so long that planting nuts would make much sense ;o).

I'm still thinking weeds, after all beet greens have about triple the protein of the roots. But, I'm not going to be happy with the hens just eating bits and leaving a rotting mess to be drug out and composted. I'd like them to completely consume what I'm offering and to benefit from this food.

I've recently learned that commercial pelleting isn't all cold pelleting. In fact, extrusion processing doesn't just mean extruding some food product into a pellet. Foods are cooked during extrusion. And, some feeds are steam pelleted. Whether this makes sense for poultry feed is another question. Apparently, part of the reason for doing so is to increase digestibility which is very important for fish farming.

Steve

Super good information, apparently nearly all from creditable sources. The Canadian universities seem to be especially oriented towards the small flock person.

I think that anyone could spend quite a bit of time there and find answers to their questions on poultry nutrition and alternative feeds. Included is info on "antinutrients." These are ingredients that inhibit digestion and need to be detoxified. "The antinutrition factors in some feed material such as beans can be destroyed by heat (cooking)." All this should be of important help to me and anyone else hoping for a productive and healthy flock using alternative feeds.

Steve

Once again there were things for the chickens in my garden, including sunflowers and millet.

This year also, I have grown some soybeans. I've enjoyed trying a little edamame. None of these soybeans have been fed to the birds yet. I mainly wanted to find out what variety would be able to mature a crop and produce well. Soybeans are not grown anywhere near here to the best of my knowledge.

Most of the soybeans will be saved for seed for next year. I do, after all, know that these chickens will eat them. -- probably the #1 ingredient in their commercial feed is soymeal. The soybeans will be cooked before being given to the hens.

Steve

One of these days I plan on setting up a solar oven and solar dehydrator where I can mix up a crude bread recipe that includes "extras" from the veggie garden. I'd bake it while I'm at work and then crumble it up and dry it in the dehydrator before storing it as a dry crumble. In my dream world this would be all that I need to keep a small flock going (besides forage). I imagine that collecting stale bread from any of the numerous bakerys nearby would work even better.

After I started this thread I had a lot of pumpkins in my garden. They are steamed and frozen for the birds to eat thru the winter. Squash and pumpkins are just about the favorite foods coming out of the garden for the birds. They will eat them raw but eat them quicker and with more enthusiasm if the squash & pumpkins are cooked. I've got plenty again this year for my small flock.

Steve

I may have said somewhere on here about my dad having grown oats and peas for hay, when I was a kid. We also grew oats and vetch and I've cut oats for hay when I was farming but I wasn't thinking about the chickens much during those years.

I suppose, laying hens would get a little more exercise than what they should for good egg production if their food was all from foraging. I know that the village chickens in Southeast Asia can sometimes be found over a half mile from home. Most of our breeds wouldn't behave quite like that but these folks aren't expecting many eggs from their birds.

One thought I have about the hens being in complete control of their diets is the result of having a peach tree in my yard. This summer, there were quite a few peaches but the sparrows got to some of them before I did. I left them on the tree and carried the good fruit in.

As the sparrow-damaged fruit fell to the ground, the laying hens "loaded up" on peaches. Days went by and their feed consumption dropped to almost nothing. This was also during a time when their egg production dropped to almost nothing.

I don't know whether the 2 were linked but if they don't have enough protein in their diet, I don't see how hens would have enough to make eggs. Kind of a "get all your calories the easiest, sweetest way possible" diet. Like little kids, I'm not sure if I can trust a Barred Rock or Black Australorp to eat the right things . . .

Steve