Hi gardengirl,
Have you tryed the Consumer Report on line help?
They may have something there???
Carol

What is EdenPure Gen3 used for?

Nancy,
I was listening to the radio this morning and these are being endorsed by Paul Harvey,he is usually pretty reliable when it comes to endorsing something.My daughters friend has two and loves them,said they are Great.Please let us know what you find out will you, i am interested in buying one for my daughters family.
Carol

Oh, I'm sorry EO,
I meant to reply to you question, they are portable heaters,run by infrared quartz tub,claimed to cut your heating bill by 50%.Heats up to 1,000 sq.ft., do not get hot to the touch either, so they are safe in a childs play room.Hope this helps you a little. :0)
Carol

Nancy, did you decide to get it? If you did, how are you liking it?

Hello everyone,

Don't buy one unless you like paying $300 for a Chinese made piece of junk (probably pay $50 to the Chinese company that makes them and the rest is profit). It's a shame that it's legal to make all these ridiculous claims about saving energy. They are no better at producing heat than any other portable electric heater. Every watt coming in from the power company to either the edenpure, a television set, a light bulb, etc. is converted into heat, with Btu output = 1,000 watts input x 3.413 Btu/hr per watt = 3,413 Btu/hr. So their 1500 watt model outputs 5119 btu/hr just as any other portable electric heater. They just do it with an overpriced unit that uses quartz lamps that will burn out in a few years and have to be replaced.

Heat pumps, on the other hand, typically used for the whole house have an indoor and outdoor unit, a compressor, and do output more heat to the house than input power to the compressor by using heat from the outdoor air. That's another subject though and I won't go into it here.

Consumer reports also tested the Edenpure heater against 20 or 30 others and rated the edenpure near the bottom, instead recommending a $80 competitor. The Dept. of Energy and utilities have also come out against these bogus claims.

The reason I'm so opinionated on this is that I'm an energy engineer and have seen claims like this before (Amish heater) and don;t want people to spend their hard earned money on an overpriced Chinese product.

Nancy,are you still happy with yours?

julio,
thank you for this info.we were thinking of buying one for our daughters family,they are pretty expencive,(well, not if they work),money is so tight right now, it is good to receive help with new things that are brought to the market,this is all i needed to help make up my mind.
Carol

Carol,

I forgot to mention it, but my brother was looking for a portable heater and found one at Wal Mart for $40 that was actually made n the USA. That was two years ago but you might look. It's rated at 1500 watts and is oil filled so it doesn't get real hot like the ones with the exposed coils. Its a Lakewood model 750. I just try to avoid China if possible because of some of the stuff I've bought and seen in the past, most not made well.

I'm using the Lakewood portable heater now.

You can save money with an eden pure or other portable heater you are only heating one or two rooms and leave the main AC unit off. Otherwise the main AC should be at least twice as efficient as a portable (depending on type, ht pmp, gas furnace, etc as long as uits not pure resistance heating coils). I just think the edenpure is too much money since its no more efficient than other portable electric heater. It will work though.

Julio

Thank you Julio for so much information.I think we will just skip it for tis year,plenty of covies,good slippers,and family love,should keep them warm,eh?
Really(they are not freezing):0)
Carol

Julio, I really appreciate your input and expertise in this area. I have copied your original posting and
kept it to refer to again and again!

I second the vote on the Lakewood model you referred to! A very nice and efficient unit to have on hand for those
cold spots in your home or in the garage if you find yourself working out there in the cold weather! :o)

Hi guys,
I just looked up the Lakewood heaters,about what size unit would you need to heat about 1000sq,ft.?They really do not say.
Are they energy efficient to run?
Thanks,
Carol

Carol--we even have the one linked below, by Delonghi and it does a good job in our family room
which is 14 1/2 x 19 1/2! This room is at the end of the line for our gas furnace and before
we installed our new system, this heater helped us be more comfortable on really chilly days!!!

It is permanently oil filled and it heats up to give a nice even heat dispersion!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Delonghi Oil filled heater

Thanks Janice,
I looked this one up,i can order it on line from Lowes,how long have you used yours?Any repairs?
Carol

Hello,

How many square feet any heater can heat is based on many variables. A design heating load should be used (used primarily on commercial buildings). Many contractors size heating based on sq ft and often oversize heating and cooling units. My house is about 1500 sq ft. At 0 deg Fahren. outside temperature and 72 deg inside temperature the house requires about 30,000 btu/hr to heat. 30,000 Btu/hr can be converted to watts by this formula:

watts rquired = Btu/hr / 3413 = 30,000/3.413 = 8,800 watts

The house actually has 10,000 watts installed which is used as emergency heat if the heat pump fails and is needed intermittently with the heat pump when the outside temperature is below 30 deg F.

You can recalculate the heat loss at any temperature outside by ratioing the temperature difference. The temperature difference to get the 30,000 btu/hr was 72 inside - 0 outside = 72 deg. So if your heating the house at any other outside temperature, you can recalculate the btu/ht. So for example if its 20 deg outside, the new temp. difference is (72-20) = 52.

Then the new Btu/hr required is only 30,000 btu/hr x 52/72 = 21,666 btu/hr = 21,666/3.413 = 6,300 watts.
So if you were trying to heat your 1000 sq ft area when its 20 outside you would need 6300 watts x 1000/1500 = 4200 watts. Most portable electric heaters are 1500 watts, so you would theoretically need 2.8 heaters. But the above calculation doesn't include the effects of any heat gains from the sun, people, lights, cooking, etc. as its supposed to be the worse case situation. You could probably get by with two heaters when its 20 deg outside. If you need heating when its zero outside: 8300 x 1000/1500 = 5533 watts or 3.7 heaters. I'd try three.

And again, it doesn't matter what brand of portable electric heater. They all have exactly the same efficiency. A 1500 watt heater has an output of 1500 x 3.413 = 5120 Btu/hr. The only diff. is price, fan or no fan, oil filled vs exposed heating coils vs using quartz lamps.

The only way to get more output than this is with a heat pump.

My house is not insulated to the max and is in need of having the crawl space floor insulated and more insulation added to the attic. The walls have R11 fiberglass w 4 inch studs and a brick veneer. A heat pump was chosen for house heating because no gas was available, and heat pumps have a coeff of performance where their energy use is reduced by a factor of 2 to 3 times over electric resistance heating (COP depnds on outdoor temp). When the heat pump (compressor and fan only)is running on my house it draws about 3000 watts for the whole house. When temps are cold outside (below 30) the electric resistance heat comes on periodically. Thats why heat pumps are not usually chosen in extremely cold climates. I have a new Carrier heat pump that is 20% more efficient than my old one but my brother and I haven't had time to install it yet. incidentally we installed the system and ductwork that is here now.

They make thru the wall small heat pumps (Mitsubishi) that will save money over a portable electric heater but they're expensive. Depends whether your heating requirement is based on a small area or not.

Julio

My friend's father was using a Lakewood oil heater in a cabin he was working on. While he was outside getting wood, the heater blew up. Fire Marshall said they'd had a lot of that. Our DeLonghis burned up outlets, even ones that were designed for higher wattage. We are over oil heaters. Won't be another one in this house!

We had loaned our oil heater to our daughter and SIL and I just checked it today and realize it
is the Pelonis brand instead of Lakewood or DeLonghi! I hope it will prove to be safer than the others!!!
We've had it about 5 years I think with no problems, so far!!!

Hello all,

Sounds like a lawsuit if it blew up. I'd be interested to get the details on how it failed, if the oil tank leaked, etc. Whatever brand you get, your best bet as far as quality is one made in the USA, especially not China. China makes some of the shoddiest stuff out there. One thing I've noticed is that on light fixture ballasts, appliances etc. made in the US, the wiring has writing on it that tells the wire gage, and its type. Chinese products come with wiring with nothing on it. Even if it UL approved (a requirement) that doesn't mean every device is inspected by UL.

As far as an idividual electric circuits, most household wiring is 12 gage. By the National Electric Code, the maximum design amperage is 18, standard outlets are rated at 15A with 20A available. 20 Amp breakers are installed in the electrical panel to break the circuit if it exceeds 20. A 1500 watt electric heater which has a power factor of 1.0) draws the following current:

Amperage = 1500 watts/ 120 volts = 12.5 amps

If other appliances are plugged in to the same circuit, you can see that the 20A maximum can be reached. They should be plugged into circuits not having other appliance loads on them. Lighting doesn't use much, especially fluorescent.

Julio

Thee is a report of a particular model of lakewood heaters that has been recalled due to the possiblity of fires. This was only on the model 5101. Here is a link to a fire prevention article. There are other products also mentioned such as dishwashers and TV's.

LINK:http://www.firecomm.gov.mb.ca/docs/burning_issues_spring_summer_2005_p8-16.pdf

Other than that I would only worry about an oil filled heater "exploding" unless its in a fire caused by something else. Obviously if you throw any sealed tank or pressure vessel in a fire it will eventually rupture. The amount of heat added by a wall outlet is insufficient to actually make it explode in the sense that one thinks of. If there is a problem with a particular model from any manufacturer, the govt will recall it (yes, I know how incometent the govt is). The Chinese manufacturers are the only ones I know of who won't cooperate with the consumer product safety administration on recalls unless forced to. Thats been the case with Chinese tires and toys.

Julio

we have 2 1500 IHeaters bought from www.toptenimports.com 379.00 free shipping we liked the first one so well we ordered a 2nd, They are just great, We were thinking how could one so small heat anything, Well they do, We heat a 1750 square ft modular home, It stays 70 and the heat is not like a furnace cold spots etc, We love it,
some dude is going to the Orchelins stores selling a Comfort Heat way over priced 499.00 . We are no way stock owners or sales reps for i heat buy one you will live it made in china so what so i Wal-mart

To Whocares-2008:

Your last sentence is a little hard to understand, maybe too much holiday cheer.

Your still not too smart to pay $379 for something that is rated 1500 watts when you could buy another portable heater with identical output for less than a hundred.

Why not help American workers in these uncertain financial times to not lose their jobs by buying a USA made heater rather than Chinese junk that is more likely to burn your home down than heat it properly.

As for two heaters heating a 1750 sq ft home. It will heat it when its 40 or 50 outside but when its zero outside you'll need five or six of those heaters to maintain 70 deg inside. And you wouldn't like the electric bills.

The heat loss on my house (1500 sq ft) when its zero outside and 70 inside is about 30,000 btu/hr (insulating better would bring that down to 25,000 btu/hr). Portable electric heaters rated 1500 watts output 5,120 btu/hr each regardless of brand. You do the math. It will take five heaters at 1500 watts each to heat the home when its 0 outside at night. When its 35 outside it will only need 2.5 heaters. When its 42 degrees outside you will only need two. But with portable heaters and a 1750 sq ft home you will have cold spots for sure. Portable electric heaters are not the best way to heat an entire house. They work well when the main heat is off to heat an individual room.

well for your info I don't drink and its is 20 degrees out and wind 30 mph and its 72 inside, Your math sucks, And you may have some on here thinking about what your blowing off about is a fact,
these are a different heat not like the Chinese Junk you bought at Wal-mart, Sure mine is made in China, We buy all Jap cars too, We own 3 Hondas, 1 toyota , 1 Honda Goldwing, 1 200 HP Boat with Yamaha Engine,
2 Yamaha keyboards, 1 Yamaha drum kit,
We will never own a Chev, Ford, Chrysler, We have owned them in the past , All JUNK!!!!! Trannys, Head Gaskets,
Sure we would buy American if the damn things would last,
And there are no colds spots in our home, Buy one you will eat your words no I doubt that you must be a Brain.
Our AC bill went up 40.00 we don't run 2 all the time, Now you do the math on propane VS Electric, 2.65 @ Gal .07 Cents per Killowatt, We use 1.25 @ Day Electric 1 heater.
And we have a friend who owns a Eden Pure 479.00 1500, And your dead wrong about these 1500 being 1500 Watts they are 500-900 Watt,
We took both units apart, Exactly the same inside, Ours looks like it has heavier tubes and all Copper, Eden made in USA, Now I ask you whats inside or out side that makes you think it will burn our house down, ??????
So your FOS! And buying USA made anything is not going to resolve this country ,
Happy Hollidays

the 1500 is not 1500 watts it is how many square feet it will heat, Well if these are junk why are there so many back orders? you cant knock one if you never owned one and I can see you will never buy one, You should and get out of these old days your livng in . its as I type this it is 18 degrees out side, We have 1 heater going and its 71 and not one cold spot, Read this below, Mr, Neutron,

Heats 50% more space than our IH1000 Model!

Heats up to 1500 sqare feet for $1 / day
Adjustable 500, 1000, or 1500 Sq. Ft. room size (Heats multiple rooms)
14 inches x 11 inches x 15 inches
Advanced Technology Infrared Heating Elements (No Bulbs)
Copper Heating Chamber
Decorative Cabinet
LIFETIME washable air filter
Commercial Grade Thermostat
Advanced tip over protection (Shuts off AUTOMATICALLY if tipped over)
Cannot start fire
Safe around kids or pets
No Flames, fumes or deadly carbon monxides (unlike kerosene or propane heaters)
Doesn't remove oxygen or humidity from the air
CUTS HEATING BILL UP TO 50%
Heats multiple rooms
FREE Factory Waranty
AS SEEN AND HEARD ON POPULAR RADIO AND TV SHOWS!
Operates on just PENNIES A DAY!
REMOTE CONTROL INCLUDED!

Author: BobbyDate added: 12/06/2008, 06:57 PM
Author: BobbyDate added: 12/06/2008, 06:56 PM
Author: Charles RichardsDate added: 11/09/2008, 03:15 PM
Author: jDate added: 10/25/2008, 08:23 AM
Author: Brian schweinerDate added: 10/21/2008, 06:07 PM
Author: koonDate added: 10/21/2008, 08:57 AM
Author: r5hollDate added: 10/20/2008, 08:08 PM

Characters:

Submit
Name of your friend: E-mail of your friend: * Your name: Your e-mail: Your message: *
ih1500 iHeater Advanced Infrared Heater (Wood Grain Look) ONE DAY ONLY SALE $379 and FREE SHIPPING - Heats 50% more space than our IH1000 Model!

The new advanced iHeater portable heater can cut your heating bill in half. Its affordable, easy to use, cleaner air and advanced infrared technology.
The iHeater portable heater works on the principle of infrared heat, the same way the sun heats the earth, to give you a natural, comfortable heat.
It works like a convection oven, moving the air around to give you a uniform heat. It draws air in through the back, up and over the heating elements, and out the front. And since it draws in air from the ground (where the air is the coldest) and circulates effectively with two powerful fans, you will get a uniform warm blanket of air from floor to ceiling.
The heat coming out is 120-125 degrees. And the heat is an even, safe (no carbon monoxide), and most of all, very comfortable type of heat. The iHeater heating chamber incorporates a cured copper panel for efficient heating by distribution of water molecules in the air. Ionized water molecules distribute the heat more evenly in the room than do the air molecules, which is why you eliminate most cold air pockets in a room by using infrared heat. It is a warmer gentler heat that penetrates the body more effectively than radiant heat.
Q Is the iHeater safe to use?
A. Yes. The iHeater can be placed against the wall or furniture without the risk of a fire. The iHeater does not release any energy into the air that will burn or harm anyone. For that reason the iHeater is safe for children and pets.
Q. Can the iHeater heat more rooms at the same time?
A. Yes, if placed in a central room and with the help of ceiling fans. It does depend on how open your floor plan is, the sizes of the rooms, and how insulated the rooms are.
Q. How long does it take to heat a room at first?
A. Less than an hour, but also depends on the size of the room, how well the room is insulated, and etc.
Q. Can these heaters be placed in moist and damp areas?
A. ItÂs suggested not to place the iHeater in those rooms due to the moisture.
Q. Can I use the heaters in a basement or garage?
A. Yes, but because of the bare concrete floor it absorbs some of the heat, so putting the heater a few feet above the floor will allow for more efficient heating.
Q. Can you use more heaters at once?
A. Yes, but each iHeater should have its own circuit.
Q. Why is it that this quartz infrared heating source uses less energy to create heat than other sources?
A. The iHeater Infrared Portable Heater doesnÂt use burning heat. Once the heat exchanger takes in the infrared heat, it releases the heat into the air which is carried by the humidity in the air. This causes the heat to travel fast and equally throughout a room. The iHeater Quartz Infrared Heater efficiency is based on the spreading of energized air, not on just fan movement. This heat is coined as "soft heat" because of how comfortable it is.
Q. What advantages does the infrared quartz tube heating source have over other heating source products?
A. In the iHeater system, electricity is used to generate infrared light which then creates a very safe heat. Infrared is the safest type of heat because it does not create carbon monoxide or harmful radiation. Infrared heat doesn't get to a burning temperature.
Q. What are the other disadvantages of combustion heat sources?
A. Heat sources that get above the burning level are unhealthy. It creates dry, irritating indoor air. It also burns lots of oxygen in the air. This dry heat and lack of oxygen dries out sinuses and mucus in the throat, and makes people vulnerable to diseases. Many combustible heat sources produce carbon monoxide, static cling, and some produce radiation.
Q. How can a person cut their heating bill up to 50% with the iHeater?
A. It uses less energy to create heat and will heat a room in minutes. You could turn the heat down and the room with the iHeater will stay warm and comfortable. The iHeater is a portable heater and when moved to another room, quickly heats that room.
Q. How can the iHeater produce clean fresh air without furnace filters?
A. A furnace generates lots of dust due to the combustion. Lowering the furnace temperature, you are using your furnace less and reducing the requirement for the furnace filters. The iHeater doesnÂt create combustion.
Q. Can I move the heater around while itÂs on?
A. We suggest that you donÂt move the heater while on and wait until the heater fans have completely turned off.
Q. Why does the Blower Fan keep running after turned off?
A. It continues to run until the heat chambers have cooled down. After a few minutes the fan shuts off automatically.
Q. What is Zone Heating?
A. Zone heating is about focusing heat where people spend the most time. There is no point heating rooms to 68+ degrees if they arenÂt in use.
Q. Can the heater and other appliances be used at the same time?
A. Yes, as long as they are using different circuits. These heaters are considered to be an appliance. Do not run more than one larger appliance on a single circuit breaker. Appliances like your freezer, refrigerator, microwave oven, washing machine, dryer, and other appliances should not share a circuit breaker.
Q. Can I use an extension cord, surge protector, or power strip with my heater?
A. NO. The heaters are designed to be plug directly into a grounded 100 volt 15 amp or higher circuit receptacle. Do not use a cord adapter or remove the grounding plug. Removing any part of the heater will void the warranty.

To Whocares-2008:

You seem to be getting a little agitated and based on your last posts appears to have a financial interest in selling overpriced Chinese heaters. Maybe youre selling on eBay and cant move them.

Posts on Gardenweb are to provide accurate information to Gardenweb forum users, not to rant, make insults, and use abbreviated dirty language, nor to post pages of manufacturers literature (your last post). Do that at another type of forum. Using dirty language shows that you are frustrated and have no understanding of the information posted.

What I have said and am not going to repeat again is:

A. You can convert the wattage input into Btu/hr output by multiplying by 3.413 and there is no difference in output between your portable electric heater and anyone elses portable electric heater. They all have 100% efficiency.

B. That no one should be paying any more than $100 for a portable heater, and you should probably avoid Chinese heaters due to their quality control problems. I think the original post has been addressed enough already and I wont have anything else to say on the same subject. Maybe you should have had a subscription to Consumer Reports where you could have seen their portable heater report online. Their recommendation was for an $85 heater with the EdenPure (sounds very similar to yours) near the bottom. This is a link to a page at Consumer Reports that mentions the EdenPure. I couldnt get the article because I am not a subscriber.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/home/2008/11/edenpure-heater.html

Let me now try to address each of your comments one item at a time with your quotes shown in italics.

1. YOUR EXACT QUOTE - "well for your info I don't drink"
   Based on your post where your last sentence was "We are no way stock owners or sales reps for i heat buy one you will live it made in china so what so i Wal-mart " you must be on something or else you let your pet use the keyboard at times.

2. YOUR EXACT QUOTE - "these are a different heat not like the Chinese Junk you bought at Wal-mart"
If you had taken the effort to read the earlier post you would have read that Im using a portable Lakewood heater that cost $40 that is made in the USA that was bought at Wal Mart.

There is no such thing as "different heat". Power In = Heat Out on any brand portable electric heater or TV set or light bulb. As mentioned in earlier posts if its 1,000 watts in that means 1,000 watts of heat out = 1,000 watts x 3.413 Btu/hr per watt = 3413 btu/hr. And if you think thats a lot of heat, look at the nameplate on your furnace, which should be rated at a minimum of 40,000 btu/hr, probably more. As I previously mentioned my house has 10,000 watts of electric heat as emergency heat for the heat pump. And thats 34,130 btu/hr, which is what the house requires when its zero outside and 70 deg inside. Its linear so without any other heat sources (like at night with minimal lights and appliances on) the house would require half the btu/hr to maintain the house at 70 deg inside when its 35 degrees outside, but thats still 17,000 btu/hr. Compare that to the miniscule 3,000 to 5,000 btu/hr output of a portable heater.
Talk to your electric utility if this still makes no sense to you.

3. YOUR EXACT QUOTE - "We buy all Jap cars too, We own 3 Hondas, 1 toyota , 1 Honda Goldwing, 1 200 HP Boat with Yamaha Engine,
2 Yamaha keyboards, 1 Yamaha drum kit,
We will never own a Chev, Ford, Chrysler, We have owned them in the past , All JUNK!!!!! Trannys, Head Gaskets,
Sure we would buy American if the damn things would last"
I never said Japanese products were junk, I said Chinese products (Although I once had a Mazda that fit the junk category). That was my last Japanese car. Im not saying buy only American but if you dont then dont whine about the economy and the lack of job opportunities. There are consequences. I bought a BMW and found it to be a much more reliable and better built car than the Japanese cars I rented and looked at. My BMW had 400,000 miles on it with no engine rebuild (not even the cylinder head removed) before I managed to wreck it. I think it would have lasted 500,000 miles without an engine rebuild. Try that with your Toyota. Im sure other car makes including American cars have had more miles put on them but they would have had the engine rebuilt earlier.

4. YOUR EXACT QUOTE - "Buy one you will eat your words no I doubt that you must be a Brain."
There you go trying to sell your product again.

While you may know more about gardening than I do, I know much more about heating and air conditioning than you as I have three Engineering degrees with a masters degree in heating and air conditioning. Ive done heating and cooling calculations on houses and buildings for quite a few years and was an energy engineer at a utility. Stick to gardening. Based upon your grammar you seem at the bottom end of any Gardenweb user Ive seen and likely never graduated high school.

5. YOUR EXACT QUOTE - "Our AC bill went up 40.00 we don't run 2 all the time, Now you do the math on propane VS Electric, 2.65 @ Gal .07 Cents per Kilowatt, We use 1.25 @ Day Electric 1 heater."
Your grammar above is not great but Ill see if I understand what youre saying. Your electric utility does not charge 7 cents per kilowatt, its 7 cents per kilowatt-hour. For example if your heater or whatever else draws 1,000 watts = 1 kW and is turned on for one hour, that is 1 kW x 1 hour = 1 kWh or kilowatt hour (That 1000 watts in terms of heat is 3,413 btu/hr so if the 1000 watts is on for one hour, thats a total of 3,413 btu/hr x 1 hr = 3,413 Btu). Thats pretty low rates if accurate. They just raised our rate to 12.2 cents per kWh including a fuel adjustment charge. So if your rate is 7 cents per kWh the cost is 7 cents per hour if on continuously. Not bad but

They only way to compare between propane and electricity is to see how much heat youre getting for a given price measured in Btu (not btu/hr). Btu and Btu/hr are analogous to gallons or gallons where Btu refers to the total amount of energy used and Btu/hr is just a measure of how fast you get it there. Lets see how many Btus you get for one dollar using your numbers.

Electricity: Btu/$ = 3,413 Btu/1 kWh x 1 kWh/$0.07 = 48,757 Btu per dollar

Propane: Btu/$ = 91,600 Btu/ 1 gal x 1 gal/$2.65 = 34,566 Btu per dollar. If your furnace ductwork combination is only 70% efficient then youre only getting 24,196 Btu per dollar

So for electricity vs. propane in your case electricity is half as much. Funny how they can charge so much since petroleum and natural gas is at three to four year lows in price. I think some suppliers locked in high prices assuming prices would keep going up, but they collapsed instead.

6. YOUR EXACT QUOTE - "And we have a friend who owns a Eden Pure 479.00 1500, And your dead wrong about these 1500 being 1500 Watts they are 500-900 Watt,"
   You apparently dont realize you made your argument about its ability to heat the house to 70 deg when its 20 deg outside worse. 500 watts is only an output of 1700 btu/hr, with 900 watts only an output of 3,070 btu/hr. I was giving you the benefit of doubt with 1,500 watts. My Lakewood (USA made) has an input/output of 900 watts or 1,500 watts so my portable heater has a greater output than yours. And I wish these things could heat as well as you say, but they cant. If they could they wouldnt install central units. Look at the Btu/hr rating of your central unit. It will be much greater than the 3,000 Btu/hr you are getting from your heater. The point is that whatever the wattage it is all converted to heat. If your heater only draws 500 watts thats about the same amount of heat you would get from three refrigerators with their compressors running.

Your TV (depending on size) probably uses about 150 watts, which has a heat output of 511 btu/hr. Your dishwasher when on the wash cycle puts out as much heat as your portable heater. The stove can use thousands of watts and can provide much more heat than your heater. I have my individual appliances metered with a data logging system so I know exactly what they use. Of course you will do best on a cold day if the sun is out, the stove is cooking a turkey, the dishwasher is on, etc. On a cold night with no sun, no other appliances on, your 3,000 btu/hr heater wont put much of a dent in your modular homes (is a modular home a mobile home?) heating requirements.

7. YOUR EXACT QUOTE - "We took both units apart, Exactly the same inside, Ours looks like it has heavier tubes and all Copper, Eden made in USA"
For $379 it should be made like a tank. If your use of "Eden" means EdenPure, the EdenPure is made in China and Vietnam. You can verify this yourself by calling any of the stores that sell them online.

8. YOUR EXACT QUOTE - "Now I ask you whats inside or out side that makes you think it will burn our house down, ??????"
Anything in the heater that conducts electricity is suspect in addition to the assembly of those parts. On many Chinese made electrical devices Ive seen, theres no mention of wire size, manufacturer, or wire type. Chinese factories have bars on the windows to keep employees (some forced labor) to escape rather than bars to keep out burglars (even in factories making well known products for export) making for less than conscientious employees. If they add harmful ingredients to milk and toothpaste in order to save money, they could also be under sizing wiring which may result in a fire. The UL doesnt inspect every unit. Ive used electronic ballasts from the same manufacturer with one being made in the USA and the other being made in China. The Chinese one causes severe interference on the TV while the one made in the US does not. The company cant explain it. The design was supposed to be the same but maybe they used a Chinese part that didnt quite meet specifications. That or it wasnt assembled correctly. In this country you would not have seen foods contaminated with chemicals for profit. They should have located their factories to Mexico instead of China if they were going to make them outside the US. Part of the blame is the stupid trade laws that allow China to put a tariff of 35% on some of our imports while letting in their goods almost duty free. I wouldnt trust Chinese manufacturing.

9. YOUR EXACT QUOTE - "So your FOS! And buying USA made anything is not going to resolve this country ,"
So quick to resort to a foul mouth and call people names. Tells much more about you than anything I can say. I didnt say buy only USA but you should if you can get a good product (as in other brands of heaters, hand tools, shop vacuums, lumber, electrical conduit, microwaves (Sharp brand made in TN). I said dont buy Chinese and there are at least a hundred reasons not to both for political and quality reasons.

This country and Europe has a long history of making products since the industrial revolution. China does not have this same tradition and until recently was an agrarian society.

10. YOUR EXACT QUOTE - "Happy Hollidays"
Use your spell checker

Well, thats all I can say so if you keep it civil I wont be so pointed in my observations. This is the time of year that people should be getting along. I think we both have better things to do the rest of the year.

Have a good Christmas and New Year (seriously).

Julio: I hope that you are following up on this post. My husband just got a flyer from a friend of his about the Edenpure heater thing. I googled it and, being a gardener, couldn't resist reading the post. BRAVO! It's a little difficult for me to understand - I am not a rocket scientist, but I get the jist (sic?) of the formula. THANK YOU FOR SAVING ME A LOT OF MONEY ON THIS HEATER. Our home was gutted and all exterior walls/attic were insulated 12 years ago. I heat my home with a Pellet stove (what a pain in the rear). Our heating pipes blew a few years ago (when we HAD the central unit on!) we never fixed them, bought the pellet stove and have been heating our home exclusively with it. There are tons of chilly spots. (Our house is shy of 1500 sf) I know these are not made to be sole heating units for homes - especially in northern NJ!! We have a yankee (dirt) basement. Last year I went down there and shoved insulation in every nook and cranny of the basement perimeter. I sealed off and insulated the bilco (sic?) doors. Where is this cold blast of air coming from? Do you think I should stick insulation between all of the floor rafters in the basement? Do you think I could somehow put in radiant floor heating under the floor as it is now or will I have to rip it all out?

Hello organicnjgardengirl,

Yes I decided to check this post again although if you read my last one you can tell I was getting slightly irritated with one poster.

I didn't really get into how you do a design heating/cooling load because its complicated for someone who hasn't done it before, but it would tell you the percentage heat loss by category (for instance air leakage might be 20% and windows might be 14%, ceiling 13%, etc. so you know where most of your heat loss is. When I used to work at a local utility I would do a design heating load on buildings to try saving the owner money.

Maybe your utility can do this. Call and ask if they'll do a survey. Its for their benefit too and even if they won't do a heating load calculation they'll look around and make suggestions. They're supposed to be trained to do this.

Even if your house were super insulated with 20 inches of urethane or fiberglass around it, you would have air leakage through doors, windows, baseboards that even on fairly tight houses amounts to loosing the entire volume of the house's air and replacing it with outside air in an hour and 20 minutes. No way around this unless you build an air lock like in the space shuttle. Air leaks around doors and windows are often the source of cold spots and drafts. Caulk your windows and doors if you feel drafts near them.

About adding insulation between the basement and first floor:

It depends if the basement is much cooler than the first floor. If so insulate the floor rafters. If you do it yourself use at least R19. On my house I have a crawl space and it is only partially insulated. Electricity used to be cheap here but it's 100% higher than 10 years ago. If I could get to it like you can thru the basement rather than crawling onm a dirt floor I would do it today. Because I only insulated one half the floor (used chicken wire to hold up R19 batt insulation) I can tell instantly by walking on it with bare feet whether it's insulated or not. Since your thinking of radiant heat I suspect your floors are cold. I'm assuming your pellet stove is upstairs and your basement is cold. If so insulate the floor. It will make a noticable difference. Try that first bacause adding radient heat is much more work.

By the way its getting down to 5 deg F tonite. And this is Mississippi. It has been below zero here at times but not recently.

I planted olive trees here and am trying to make them grow. Since they've only been here a year I'm covering them up tonight due to the cold. After tonight its supposed to be back around 20 deg which is ok for olive trees.

Ask if you have any questions or more information. I only posted here because my postman bought two edenpure heaters and I saw the thread here. His comment is "They don't put out much heat" which of course is because the heat output is the same or less than any other portable heater.

julio01:

I am looking into some sort of supplement heat for next season since this winter is almost over. After reading all the posts on this subject I am struck with a couple of things.

1. Some people have gotten WAY too passionate about their position in this argument.

2. I read the blog from the link you provided (http://blogs.consumerreports.org/home/2008/11/edenpure-heater.html) and noticed this statement in that blog:

We have not tested the GEN3 500 or 1000 models, which, according to a customer-service representative at BioTech Research, has seen "major improvements" from the brand's Quartz Infrared 1000, $400, which we tested for our 2007 report on space heaters. Let's just say that our experts were not transported to paradise by the EdenPure we did review.

What is up with that? They didn't bother to test the latest model so they referred to prior tests and used that for their "facts"? And yes I know the quotes in MY post look like sarcasm. But since the blog used quotes to place a (possibly "sarcastic")question about the "major improvements" I figured I would follow suit.

I do not have the education or background that you possess so I will not debate your statements.

But what I may do is purchase a Edenpure heater and a $85 dollar portable heater that have the same wattage rating and see if their is a definable difference.

Of course the heating season is coming to a close and this test will most likely not have any usable data until we get into the 2009-2010 heating season.

I will see if I can get anyone in my area to try a $85 dollar to compare to their GEN3 Edenpure and post back with the results.

And finally, Edenpure does not have (As far as I could find) a model rated for 1500 square heating. The highest square foot rating is 1000 sq ft and that model is listed as using 1483 watts. So whocares-2008 is incorrect in his posting about that.

Just trying to be fair to both sides.

I hope Julio01 is still paying attention to this thread. I do appreciate your input. In your reply from Dec 16, you state "You can convert the wattage input into Btu/hr output by multiplying by 3.413 and there is no difference in output between your portable electric heater and anyone elses portable electric heater. They all have 100% efficiency." You are an energy engineer, so I hope that you can help me to understand something a little better. Why would all these electric heaters have 100% efficiency? Depending on the appliance, there should be some difference in the ratio of heat/light output. For instance, a 100 watt heat lamp should put out more heat than a 100 watt bulb, and the 100 watt bulb should put out more light. The same could apply to these heaters, couldn't it? Is a heated coil heating the air as efficiently as an infrared bulb heating water molecules?

Cayveman,

I finally checked back on this thread. It's about thermodynamics and the conservation of energy, so in easy to understand terms when you have energy input (like the voltage and amps going to the heater) and what comes out has to be the same because the energy can't magically increase or be destroyed. It's simpler with electric resistance heaters because inefficiencies that we normally see in motors, pumps, etc. manifest themselves as heat which in this case we want. So the energy (kwh) can be directly converted to Btu's (Btu = Btu/hr average x number of hrs on). The reason I say Btu/hr average is that the heaters thermostat turns the heating element on and off.

As for the heat lamp vs a std lamp, if they both draw 100 watts of power, they have the same heat output in Btus to a space. The std lamp would have a higher lumens (measurement of light) per watt but even the light after being absorbed and reflected by surfaces converts to heat. So there is ultimately no difference in the heat added to a room.

Other items in your home such as TV's, dishwashers, etc. are not 100% efficient at doing the intended task, but all the input power in them as well converts into heat. So a dishwasher or refrigerator running helps heat your house as well as a portable heater in the winter but adds to the air conditioning load in the summer. Calculating the heat output is easy because all of the inefficiency of the motors and circuits in your appliances result in heat. That is not the case with your electric water heater because much of the heat is dumped down the drain with your bathwater and only a part of the heat stays in your home.

Lastly concerning heating of air or water, the equation is the same for sensible heating or cooling (w/o removing moisture like an Air Cond. in the summer). What I think everyone is interested in is heating the space so a thermostat will show a higher temperature in the room. There is radiant heating used in non heated spaces where people have to stand in a line of site of the heater to feel the heat but that is like standing in front of a fireplace to keep warm.

The equation for heating air or water is:
Btu = mass x heat capacity x Temperature difference

The difference is that water has a spec. wt. of about 62.4 pounds per cubic ft (Varies with temperature and can be found on the web.)
Air is only about 0.075 pounds per cubic foot. (Varies with temperature and can be found on the web.)

Also the heat capacity of water is 1.0 Btu/pound - deg F while that for air is 0.24 Btu/pound - deg F.

Example:

Small bathroom 5 ft x 9 ft with 8 ft ceilings at 40 degrees F. We want to heat to 80 deg F using a portable electric heater having an input of 1500 watts ( 5,119.5 Btu/hr input = output).

Volume = 6 x 9 x 8 = 432 cubic ft
Mass = 432 cubic ft x 0.075 pounds/cubic ft = 32.4 pounds
Specific Heat of air = .24

Btu required = 32.4 pounds x 0.24 Btu/pound - deg F x (80 - 40) deg F = 311 Btu
kWh= 311 Btu x 1 kWh / 3413 Btu = 0.091 kwh

Time required to heat the room = 311 Btu x 1 hr / 5119.5 Btu = 0.0608 hr = 3.64 minutes
You would actually take more than 3.64 minutes because you would be heating all the fixtures, walls, and if not insulated well other adjacent rooms.

I asked my mailman if I could borrow one of his edenpure heaters for a test just to compare what Im describing above, the heating of a small bathroom with two types of heaters just for fun. I have the equipment to measure input energy and the air temperatures would have to be measured in several areas in the room every 30 seconds or so and recorded. There wont be a difference because its impossible but it might be interesting to post the test results. Could be done in the summer but you would have to heat the room to 100 deg F to get good results and preferably before the sun comes up (to eliminate another factor) and at about the same outdoor air temperature.

What goes in has to be what comes out. It cant disappear or get larger. Not talking about heat pumps or air conditioners right now as that is a more complex subject and those units have COPs and EERs associated with them where the heat addition to a space is higher than the compressor energy used. They still dont violate the laws of thermodynamics about the creation or destruction of energy.

Again this isnt saying everything is 100% efficient. Its just electrical appliances, heaters which wont have 100% efficient motors but the inefficiencies manifest themselves as heat.

I used to sell pumps as a sales engineer and our pump curves would show the pump efficiencies which would vary depending on rpm, flow rate, and pressure. What this meant was that the motor and pump when combined might only be 75% efficient and was determined by tests performed by the pump and motor manufacturers that were shown on graphs that engineers used. The efficiency the manufacturer stated was based on the actual power required to pump a given flow and pressure compared to the theoretical power required (based on another engineering formula). All the electric power (watts) into the motor ends up as heat while moving the water. Pumping the water even heats it up slightly.

Hope this clarifies things and I havent been too long winded.

Even if its stored by being absorbed by a piece of copper it eventually is released into the air. It has to be the same as what's input. The same is true of a 100 watt light bulb no matter what type it is, although a heat lamp having larger diameter wire inside its bulb outputs a smaller percentage of light and more heat

I forgot about posting this, since I rarely come to this side. Here's an update,I hate this thing! Ours just died one day,I was so glad because it was very loud and I hated it. Unfortunately my husband sent it back and they replaced it with a new one, free of charge. I swear it was even louder. After we had it for a month I finally said, it has to be turned off at night. I couldn't go to sleep, I'd just lay there and listen to that loud, humming, whistling sound. As far as cost, our gas bill was lower but our electric was higher, but not bad. I'm sure it saved us some money but was it as much as the heater cost, who knows. Was it worth it having to listen to that noisey thing? My husband thought it was the greatest and I hated it. Oh well, just wanted to say that "I" wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

We just received the EdenPure Gen3 1000 unit. The unit is completely silent, and has worked incredibly well. We have a oil furnace, which goes through oil quickly. At $3.00 or more for a gallon of oil, given that our tank holds 300 gallons, it can cost us $900 to fill it. We were told we would need to fill the tank every 3-4 months. That is a lot of money, so we wanted to look at another option.

I will certainly concede that Julio has far more technical knowledge, and scientific knowledge. Yet, I will say purely from a user standpoint, when we turned on the EdenPure heater, we were able to essentially shut our main heater for the house off.

This house is about 1,000 sq. ft. upstairs. The house feels warmer, and the warmth is more even. Hard to describe, but I don't noticed cold spots like I did with the central heat. I will see what our electric bill looks like, but I can pretty much tell you that this EdenPure system is not drawing much power, and certainly will end up costing us less than using the central oil heater.

Perhaps there have been improvements in the Generation 3 unit? All I know is that for us, this EdenPure heater works great, is safe, is silent, heats extremely well, and heats in a way that seems more thorough.

If our main heat for the house, oil system, uses $300 per month in oil, I think it will be safe to say that our electric bill on this little EdenPure heater will be far less than that. MONEY SAVED! :)

Happy Holidays!

Pellsass I do agree with you that the heat is nice, and it is a warmer heat than the propane heat we have. However, once again this thing quit on us. So we have had three of these now, in just a little over a year. So glad that you received a QUIET one. All of them that they have sent us are extremely loud. I see an advertisement in our local paper for one that a retailer is caring, that is of a different name and it says MADE IN AMERICA. I would be tempted to buy this, if we had not already bought the EdenPure. Good luck with yours and let me know if you make it all winter without it quiting. Maybe we have just had lemons.

do not buy,the customer service sucks,we sent ours back for the 2nd time ,now we are fighting to get it back broken,horrible company stay away we regret ever getting a heater from them!!!!!!!

I know I am way late on this post, but if you are still looking for basement heater do not buy the Eden Pure! They have about 5000 BTU/h with a 70 CFM (Air movement) There is a new one on the market called Jetstream made in Oklahoma. For the same power usage they have over 25,000 BTU/h and 240 CFM. I have started using them in my house and have cut my propane down by almost half $750 to $350 and raised my elctric bill $62. I was shocked at how much they really do work! I think they are out of Broken Arrow Ok.