Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
beckyinrichmond

designing a shade garden

beckyinrichmond
9 years ago

I am designing a shade garden to replace an area in the front yard where grass is always thin because of shade. The street is north. To the west are tall shrubs and a cedar tree on the neighbor's property. To the east is a big Japanese maple. To the south is the house and a dogwood. I am thinking of using variegated Solomon's Seal, Jack Frost Brunnera, ferns, and hosta. I'm thinking the Solomon's Seal would go beside the neighbor's shrubs with maybe a tall fern back there too. Then the hosta would go in front of the Solomon's Seal interspersed with medium size ferns, then the brunnera along the front. What do you think? Should I stick to one kind of hosta or have a mix? Which hostas would look good with the Solomon's Seal and Jack Frost Brunnera? I am in Richmond VA. Summers are hot, winters generally mild.

Comments (19)

  • smorz
    9 years ago

    I like a mix.. Similar but contrasting. Like Halcyon and June do, is a perfect example. But I also like blues :) what do you like?
    I found early on despite great pictures of hosta.. Seeing in person, in mature clumps ... I found I like a lot more than just big blues ;)

  • beckyinrichmond
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I like the blues and Halycon and June are good looking. It is rather dark as the maple canopy covers the entire area and the holly and cedar on the west admit no light. Will blues disappear into the shade? Would golds be better? How does a low light situation affect the color of the hostas?

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    9 years ago

    she said:

    where grass is always thin because of shade.

    and:

    It is rather dark as the maple canopy covers the entire area

    ==>>>

    if grass wont grow there.. you are going to have a hard time growing hosta there .... and maple is the absolute worst to grow under...

    if the greatest invasive weed in the world... grass ... can not thrive .. that says just about all you need to know.. about the situation ...

    there are tricks to give it the old college try ... and those better surface.. long before you make lists and purchases ...

    the number one rule... is do NOT till ... do not amend ... plant in native soil ... never fert or water just the plants ... and never give up ... i think that is 6 rules ...

    anyone have any links to old posts about such ...

    ken

  • beckyinrichmond
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    If hosta will have a hard time there, what about Solomon's Seal, ferns, and brunnera? The holly bush and maple have been there at least 50 years, the cedar about 10, the dogwood about 20. I'm sure there are tree roots everywhere. Would it be better just to spread mulch and maybe have a peninsula of potted shade plants? How does hosta do in pots? I'd rather just plant them in the ground and keep the whole area watered if that will keep the tree roots from strangling the plants.

  • bkay2000
    9 years ago

    Hosta should do fine in pots. There are some differences in how you raise them. But, in Virginia, you should do fine. If you decide to go that way, post again and us "potheads" will help you learn the ropes.

    bk

  • beckyinrichmond
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    After doing more reading, I have decided to give up on the idea of a shade garden there. I'm going to do mulch instead, extending the mulch that is around the maple over to the holly bush and cedar in a curve. There are so many roots and the cedar has made the area so dark. Before the neighbors planted the cedar there was nice grass there. I will plant some hosta where they will have a better chance to thrive. I thought about pots but I wanted the ferns and Brunnera and Solomon's Seal too and all that would look strange in pots in the middle of the yard between the tree and the shrubs. A few pots beside the trunk would look okay but not a clutter of pots across the yard. Thanks for giving me advice and ideas.

  • beverlymnz4
    9 years ago

    The Solomon's Seal will do fine there. They will be slow to establish so you should still mulch. There are other ground covers that may fill in for you but not hosta and ferns. Both hosta and ferns like moist soil and the trees may make it too dry. Other gound covers I might try are heuchera and Epimedium. I'm a little curious though, I don't think of Japanese Maples as being "Large". The maples that are notorious for sucking up all the water and nutrients are Red Maples and Silver Maples. I'm unsure of Cedars, and how difficult they can be for gardens. If you want to try hosta there choose a green variety, with less light you need more chlorophyll, or so I've heard. I reccomend Elegans.

  • arcy_gw
    9 years ago

    At my home I have 100s of hosta THRIVING where I could not grow grass. Just sayin. My house is surrounded. Three acres, beds 25 feet deep FULL of hosta, solomons seal (four varieties), jack-n-pulpits, astilbe, ferns (six varieties), columbine......lord knows what all else. I would give your idea a try. My gardening experiences are FULL of things people told me would not work, I could not do. A few didn't..but over all I found much that really did work just fine. Every yard is its own micro environment. Every gardener's tolerance and the effort willing to put out for the garden different. My gardens are not much work now--they are fairly self sustaining. The time and work it took to establish them 15 years ago was well worth it.

  • harryshoe zone6 eastern Pennsylvania
    9 years ago

    Your north facing yard sounds similar to mine. i have a border of arborvitae on the west with a large cherry tree spreading into the arborvitae. The lawn never grew well under the cherry, but azaleas, ferns and hosta sure do.

  • bkay2000
    9 years ago

    I think what ken is talking about is the Maples. The shallow, dense roots of the maples take up all the nutrients and water. To remedy that people use spin out bags and sometimes plant pots in the ground.

    This is second hand information. I do not have hosta in the ground or maples, either.

    bk

  • beckyinrichmond
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    What pretty gardens, archy and harryshoe. I'm investigating epimedium and heuchera like beverlymn suggests. Perhaps the prudent thing to do is create a bed outline, edging it from the grass, kill what little grass there is in it, add mulch, then try a few plants (probably Solomon's Seal) near the border with the neighbor's holly bush and cedar tree and see how that does. If it survives, I could gradually add plants (next fall, next spring) working back toward the maple. The maple iis probably 20-25 ft tall and dominates the whole side of the yard on one side of the sidewalk leading to the house. Wonderful shade and multiple trunks easy for children to climb.

  • mac48025 ( SE michigan)
    9 years ago

    I have the unfortunate situation of being surrounded by mature silver maples and grass wouldn't grow throughout most of my yard. I hate lawn, so that didn't bother me. I brought in over 100 cubic yards of a rich, organic soil to raise the beds. This only kept the tree roots at bay for a season but it provided well drained beds so that I could water frequently, allowing the hostas to co-exist with the water hungry tree roots. I wish I had a well as my water bills aren't as pretty as the hostas!

  • mac48025 ( SE michigan)
    9 years ago

    Another pic

  • mac48025 ( SE michigan)
    9 years ago

    One more. Don't fear tree roots, if we did there wouldn't be many shade gardens!

  • mac48025 ( SE michigan)
    9 years ago

    Here's the pic I was looking for. This bed is directly under my neighbors silver maple with about a 4' diameter trunk. If you water them, they will grow.

  • beckyinrichmond
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Beautiful gardens! So the trees didn't suffer from having soil brought in? Ken said not to amend the soil. But if I make a raised bed and bring in soil for it, that will be okay? One advantage is I won't be disturbing the tree roots, stimulating them where I dig into the ground. It would be much better drainage for my plants. Would it be good to line the bed with newspaper to give the plants more time to establish before tree root invasion? How deep should a raised bed be?

  • mac48025 ( SE michigan)
    9 years ago

    I wish raising the beds would have killed the silver maples! Just kidding. Silver Maples are virtually indestructible but the same can't be said of most other trees so care must be taken when raising the beds under them. I used a mixture of equal parts topsoil, sand, compost and peat moss....so it wasn't too heavy. My beds never impacted more than about 30 percent of any one trees root system and werent close to their trunks, so the trees werent harmed at all. For many trees the increased watering could be more detrimental than the soil, but silver maples love water....hence my having to water every other day to keep the hostas happy. Without seeing your site I couldn't advise you regarding how much, and any, you can raise your beds but I try to raise all the beds I install.......in my garden and my clients. Lastly, your choice of variegated solomon seal, ferns, brunnera and heucheras are great shade companion plants with hostas.

  • dougald_gw
    9 years ago

    The vast majority of trees respond poorly to raising the soil level on their roots. Be careful! ...

    While it is true that shade gardens by definition put the shaded plants in competition with tree roots and many hostas grow well even in those conditions, this forum in the past has been filled with stories of hostas that faded and died as they were outcompeted for water by trees. Ken gave some good advice - beware of intense shade and especially be careful of those dense roots.

    I planted my shade gardens mainly under Eastern White Pine - the roots are generally deep enough that hostas and other plants grow well. What was a problem was the heavy canopy creating almost desert like conditions below. I ended up installing an irrigation system drawing water from a nearby river.

    Some experimentation in your circumstance is certainly called for. Go easy on raising the soil level and your plan to start near the border and work towards heavier shade seems quite sensible. Personally, I prefer variegated hostas but hostas with light centres on leaves (Great Expectations for example) have proven difficult to grow where conditions are not just perfect for them.

    Experience starts when you begin but be prepared for the odd learning failure.

    Doug

  • harryshoe zone6 eastern Pennsylvania
    9 years ago

    Mac,
    I don't know what your water bills are....but its money well spent! Your beds are beautiful.