you know about the library???

compare wider margin to minuteman ... i dont really see that the green is different on one or the other.. its the larger white edge.. that makes the center green.. SEEM .. different ...

forget about counting pods.. etc ...

i think.. maybe steve can correct me ... they both come out of the same TC batch plant... and way back in time.. they didnt even know they basically had two different plants .... but as they matured.. they realized.. one had a wider margin ... or maybe it was some screw up at one TC lab ...

regardless.. you actually found the answer yourself.. i dont know why you dont believe your own research.. think of it this way.. why would zillis have addressed it.. so precisely.. if there wasnt a nightmare in the naming protocol ...

ken

ps: find better sellers than bigboxstore.. and you wont have wrongly named hosta.. eh????

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Chris chimed in on this question a couple of years ago. Link below.

Mistaken identity has nothing to do with big box stores. It apparently is rampant.

bk

Here is a link that might be useful: link about Minuteman and Patriot

I think this is really interesting, so I'm copying it here:

Posted by ctopher_mi Z5 MI (My Page) on Fri, Apr 6, 12 at 21:33

The problem is that Minuteman is a tissue culture mutation of Patriot, and it happens so often that when companies TC Patriot there is a good chance that they will end up with Minuteman if not properly culled out. Patriot has a wider margin earlier in its life while Minuteman takes a lot longer to get there. Also as noted, Minuteman's margin appears to be more starkly white. Patriot more yellow/cream when it first comes out.
Since Minuteman can show up while doing TCs of Patriot, but they are so tough to cull, you have a lot of Patriot on the market that are really Minuteman, and then you end up with identical but different labeled plants out there.

Thanks Ken for your comments.

When I purchased these so-called Patriots in 2011, I thought I was doing real good. "Wow," I thought. "I am getting a Patriot (and that's a Hosta of the Year) for a reasonable price!" And I did that two times (x 2 plants each time)! I was so pleased! LOL

I have learned that buying at big box stores means that you may be paying less (but maybe not, depending on the size of the plant); the chance of HVX is greater; and you can't be sure of the name of the hosta you're purchasing. But I sure didn't know any of that back in 2011.

So at this point, I find it irritating, not challenging, when I do not know the name of the plant. I agree that buying from reputable, reliable sources reduces chances of HVX and mislabelling.

So, in regards to my plants, I think that the one on the right is Patriot and the others on the left are Minuteman. One thing that confused me was that Zilis said that Minuteman had rare seed pod formation. My possible Minuteman hosta had formed seeds. But, Ken, you say that I should discount that and basically look at the border size.

As for the green color, there is a difference in mine. I think it could not be detected in the picture above. I have a picture of the darker leaf with the lighter leaved one. You can see it below. That photo was also taken mid September.

Thanks for the link bk. I found Chris' post of interest. That was what you Ken were referring to also.

So two Minuteman and one Patriot. That's what I think I have.

Sometimes it's easier just to wait it out I figure in order to be sure. In spring Patriot will show its creamy margin while unfurling so then you can pounce on it with your marker and say, aha, I knew it! :-)

Jo
P.s. I agree with Ken's observation ... as you seem to be very thorough, "believe your own research." That is a compliment.
P.P.S. You must be happy to have The Zilis book at hand...I don't have one yet but it sounds like something for me. I like as-close-to-exact information
on hosta as possible and this book appears to offer that.

Edited to say that those hosta are displaying gorgeous, crisp green colours. Very nice hostas!

This post was edited by josephines67 on Sun, Feb 2, 14 at 20:25

Having the Zilis book is great. I highly recommend that you begin at the front and read all that before you begin flipping pages. It was invaluable to me because I had no hosta cultural background at all, before I read Zilis....it helped a lot. Then so did the HostaLibrary.org with its photos and further link to MYHOSTAS.BE. And this forum--with a little less organization but bit by bit it is here somewhere.

In my garden, I'm not really hot for the white margins any more. I go for the lighter gold/green midleafs and the darker margins--which in my climate seem to be more durable. So while I have one of Minuteman and one of Patriot, neither one grow well enough to impress me. On the other hand, I started with three eyes of Victory, and that boy is now filling a tub and set lots of seedpods in 2013. And Fragrant King is a big dude with white margins that is a vigorous grower. I'm sure I have others with light margins as well, but without cruising through the garden to remind myself which ones they are, I cannot list them here.

Thanks Jo. I agree that when spring arrives, that will be a good time to look at the "Patriot"s again, and to conclude once and for all which is Patriot and which is Minuteman.

Does sound like The Hostapedia is a book you should seriously consider. Are you aware of the new book Zilis is coming out with in March or April? It is called Field Guide to Hostas. That is one I am definitely going to purchase! Can't wait.

I could not add my Patriot or Minuteman to the alphabet due to labelling confusion, I have added couple photos here.

I just saw that you posted moccasinlanding. That is a very good point that you make about reading the first pages of The Hostapedia. I am glad that you posted to make that comment.

I, too, am not that fond of white margins. I seem to be attracted more now to the yellow/green combination. But then, of course, there are some exceptions, like Earth Angel, Liberty etc.

Here's a photo taken the end of July.

This was an interesting thread, thanks for starting it. The whole Minuteman/Patriot tc issue is a lot like the Andrew/Hans tc problem. Of course, with those two, it is suspected that there are no actual Andrews coming out of tc anymore, but they are all Hans now. Very interesting.

Thanks funnthsun. I am glad you found the thread interesting. In all my confusion, I wanted to learn more and see whether others were finding it difficult to distinguish between the two. Also I wanted to share what Zilis noted as differences in case there were others who were wondering whether they had Patriot or Minuteman. That tissue culture issue is an eye opener for sure.

Surely you do not speak of 'Fair Maiden' in your sweeping generalizations???

Don't make me send The Gnomes after you peeps...

I have nine Patriot hosta and 13 Minuteman hosta planted in various locations and conditions and I find that I find one or the other superior during different times throughout the season. I may have some of the mislabeled or tissue cultured clones, but it doesn't really matter; they are both worth having.

Jon

Thanks Jon for your comment. It is helpful to hear from someone like you that has so many Patriot/Minuteman. I believe what you say about finding different ones superior at different times of the season. Maybe I will be able to experience that in the next few years. After three seasons, I favor Patriot probably because its margins are somewhat wider than the Minuteman. I understand that Minuteman's margins take more time to widen. So I will keep an open mind!

In case someone is still wondering whether they have Patriot or Minuteman, I thought I would resurrect this thread.

The verdict is in! I have two Patriot and one Minuteman! Don't you agree? Check out photos from last year:

The two on the right have the creamy white margins early spring (Patriot).

One month later. Two on the right are Patriot.

Don't you agree?

Yes, I do! I can say that with conviction because I purchased a Patriot this past week....creamy white edges unfurling! That does it for me. :)

Thanks, NHL...it was good of you to find the thread. It will be helpful to others along the way. :-)

This is a great thread! I think the edges of the mine were always white but I wouldn't swear to it. I remember being surprised by how white the edges were. I wouldn't swear to the time frame though.

I have a number of each (13 Minutemen and 8 Patriot) and the width of edges is dependent on sunlight exposure and time of the season. I some days when I like Minuteman better and sometimes Patriot. The differences are variable and I think it would take a very detailed examination between the two to distinguish identities and even then I'm sure it would be easy to mistake one for the other. I wouldn't know one from the other except I know where each was planted.

Jon

You have a small Colonial army, Jon! : )

I must have a close look at my Patriot when it opens up to see if it is the right one. Interesting thread thanks Newhostalady.

Denis

OK, so looks like a have a Patriot, judging from the creamy edge. Thanks!

Don, you never know when you will need a little back-up.

Jon, it reminds me of the saying "go big or go home" lol...with your property, your Colonial armies can march just about anywhere! Just wait until Sagae and Liberty take off! Oooweeee! I love how you garden with gusto!

Jo, they are unfurling as we speak. Six Liberties way out front, three behind ten Sagae at the berm (Bunker Hill?) overlooking three Victories on the right flank and one on the left flank with one Sagae as a forward scout and nine others spread strategically in rear positions protecting the embankment. They are digging in for a long campaign after a brutal winter.

The only weak spot is the untested Weeping Cherry on top.

Jon

Clever Jon! What a pretty weeping cherry and gorgeous in bloom!

What a steal $7.50 @ Lowe's last Fall (saving it from the dumpster), today $36 to $50.

Oh yes! My girls and I often find terrific buys like that - we go to the nursery very early in March and come home w $1 Delphs and Lupines, for example and stand agape when it's flowering time! At end of the season for shrubs n trees! I have a dwarf Korean Lilac that I only paid $7 for that I love to talk about. Glad someone else out there that appreciates the potential and looks beyond the aesthetics sometimes. Double the pleasure!