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Forbidden Fruit update

Posted by roblksd (My Page) on
Tue, May 15, 12 at 22:46

I contacted Marco Fransen about his plant Forbidden Fruit. He said only about 200 of them had been shipped to the US and all were being sold through Naylor Creek. Bkay I know your intentions are good but it is very important to have all the facts before potentially ruining a plant and or growers reputation. Marco told me he has a small nursery and does no business with Lowes or any other stores like that. I am not sure what the best way to combat the HVX problem is but I think social media can play an important role as long as it can be backed up with proof such as photos showing to virus and tags. I will say it again. No one is safe from HVX. Most of the commercial plants originate from a small number of growers. I have seen how many of the large growers do things. They have small assembly lines and machines that put the grow media in pots. Just about everything is greenhouse grown. The testing process is very strict, before during and after the TC initiation process. I keep thinking that the problem has to originate in the growing media but that is just my opinion.Rob


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Rob, I'm not sure of your point. I'm not the grower. I'm not the seller. I'm just a consumer who happened into Lowe's to find diseased plants. Are you saying I shouldn't have posted it?

As you have pointed out in earlier posts, a grower has no control of what happens to his plants once he/she has sold one (1). The buyer can take it into tissue culture and there's nothing a plant breeder can do about it. The only remedy/contol a grower has is a plant patent and then it doesn't control quality, it only controls getting paid for it.

The plant had a great big Lowe's tag (similar to the one pictured) on it with a photo that said Forbidden Fruit. The plant looked like the photo. I thought it was Orange Marmalade, which is how it looks in the hosta library. I did not do a HVX test, all I can tell you is that it had the dark green ink bleed (on white centered leaves) that everyone seems to agree is a symptom of HVX.

Other than being angry that another small plant breeder's plant has HVX without his involvement, what's your point? Is there something you think I should have done differently?

bkay

Photobucket


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

I am saying that you should have not posted it without a picture of the plant and the tag. You were even second guessing yourself as to what the plant is. Forbidden Fruit is a patented plant by the way so Marco may wish to file a lawsuit if the plant is being produced and sold without his knowledge. That is another reason to include a photo and other proof. I know the plant and it has a different appearance. Look , I am not trying to argue. All I am doing is to say be careful. Good news travels like a snail. Bad news travels like wildfire. Hardly anyone ever reads the corrections when an error is made. I am not even trying to say you have made an error. Just saying please back it up with proof. I will give you a good example. Lets say I go to a restaurant and within 24 hours I am sick. I tell everyone I got food poisoning at that restaurant. I have no proof. I could have picked up a virus anywhere. Many people will stop supporting that business because of what I said. Can you relate.


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

I have a Forbidden Fruit. It came from Naylor Creek, and I am super pleased to know that I have 1 of only 200 legitimate versions of this gorgeous plant.

Here are my two side by side. I've had Orange Marmalade since about mid-April. Forbidden Fruit came around the first week of May.
Hosta in containers

Forbidden Fruit--when I placed this order with Naylor Creek, the Fransens were there pitching in to help fill orders.
Hosta in containers

And Orange Marmalade
Hosta in containers


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

I'm sorry if he's not being paid for FF. I'm sorry his plant is infected, but it is.

If there is something specific I can do, I will do so, if he asks.

You have my email address.

bkay


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More Forbidden Fruit update

Rob, I think you may be mistaken. According to Don_R's list, Forbidden Fruit is not patented. I checked patentgenius.com and it's not listed. (You have to have the number to look it up on the official patent database, I think.) I checked the hosta registry and it's not registered.

Since it was developed in Europe, there may be something there, but I could find nothing here.

bkay


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Naylor Creek has it in their catalog as PPAF. Plant Patent Applied For. That is a US term. That gives it the same protection as being patented and provides a time period to get the patent approved. The patent process can take years. I am hoping you see the main point I was trying to make. I am not feeling that you do. Again, I know your intentions are good but please avoid making claims that spread worldwide without showing the proof. Once you make the claim on the web please be prepared to back it up on the web. I am surprised Steve or Chris has not chimed in on this. Major lurking going on. By the way there is a Field grown Victory for sale on the HL auction you may be interested in. Rob


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

No, I'm sorry. I don't get it. What you're saying makes no sense whatsoever to me. How is Mr. Franzen responsible for HVX infected plants? He's no more responsible than you (or Mary Chastain) would be if I found an infected Lakeside Shoremaster. I would assume that any plant in mass production would be vulnerable.

I've been to 4 Lowe's in the area. This one is the only one with anything other than the really old varieties. I'll check on one Lowe's I haven't been to to see if they have this grower's merchandise. I'll also take my camera.

Thanks for the tip on the Victory.

I'm sorry that I don't get it. I know you are serious. It just doesn't make sense to me.

bkay


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

I thought it was very strange that Forbidden Fruit would be available at Lowes and even more strange that all of their hostas would disappear in a matter of a couple days. Were these black market hostas? And, I thought Forbidden Fruit was a hosta that was fairly new to the market.

I so get what Rob is saying. After seeing your inital post about seeing an infected FF at Lowes, it came off my list, even though it was in the top 10. After reading your other thread where you said it might not have been FF, I'm still leary, you see, the damage has been done.

Same is true with August Moon. If I didn't already have an August Moon, there's no way that I would buy one anytime soon, no matter how much I liked it. And, I step outside and check mine everyday for signs of HVX.....

I have way too much money invested in my gardens now, to take any risks.

Also, do a Yahoo search on 'hosta Forbidden Fruit'. The fifth one on my list is the previous thread in big, bold letters .... HVX...Forbidden Fruit.

Gesila


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

It's certainly possible that someone has illegally put FF into tissue culture. Or it's possible that it is mislabeled. BB stores are notorious for that.

Bkay, any possibility that you could get a pic of the plant and let us know what is on the label? Sometimes at these stores they put their own label in the pot and the grower has a sticker on the side of the pot. I've been looking at the Hosta here in Mass at the big box stores and at the local nurseries trying to ID the growers who are perpetuating this evil.

I saw a virused Honeybells at a local nursery earlier this week. It was right next to a virused plant that was labeled Fried Green Tomatoes, but I'm pretty sure it was another Honeybells also. As far as I was able to determine these plants were grown in a local field and probably picked up the virus there.

Honeybells

Can you believe $15.99 for a plant that will bring sickness to your garden.

Steve


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

You can say I was "iffy". I said it could have been Orange Marmalade. I looked it up. Forbidden Fruit is the tetraploid version of Orange Marmalade. It could have been Orange Marmalade. The tag said Forbidden Fruit.

The thought occured to me that someone has gotten some Orange Marmalade that they don't want to pay Bob Solberg for. So, they are calling it Forbidden Fruit. Forbidden Fruit is a plentiful hosta. All the majors either have it or have had it. Some mention PPAF, some don't. It would be easier to "not know" about a PPAF, than to get caught selling Orange Marmalade and not paying the royalty.

Just a thought.

bkay


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Hi,

I saw the thread about Forbidden Fruit being sold at Lowe's and was really surprised that they would have something so new to the market, but I've seen similarly very new hostas before at Meijers and Menards before, where their newness really shocked me. But I've also seen labels for very rare hostas on incorrectly labeled plants at these places too, so that wouldn't surprise me either.

I don't doubt that bkay saw a virused plant with a label of Forbidden Fruit. How will we ever know how it got there, even if it was real? And if it was real, and was virus infected, how would we ever know how it became infected, or at what stage of the growing/selling process? And it wouldn't be the first bootleg hosta ever seen, nor the first virus infected plant being sold at a Lowe's...


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

One last try.
1. I have seen newer hostas at box stores that were produced by Walters Gardens. That is because they will grow 50,000 plus of a plant like Whee! and their brokers and sales people sell them everywhere including the people that grow them for Lowes.
2. Chris you have met me so you know I am 6ft 10 with green hair and have a third arm. You saw it here so it must be true ?
3.Steve,you are correct that box stores are notorious for having mislabeled plants. I have never seen a Frisian Pride mislabled as Hands Up. Its always the older plants mixed up.
4.I took the time to communicate and get direct information from Marco Fransen. Of the 10,000 plants available why bootleg that one. At the very least you would expect a crook to at least change the name. A hosta collector is not shopping at Lowes looking for a specialty plant.
5.Could it be mislabled. Maybe. The label makers would only be printing them if they were doing so for at least 5000 plants. I am not an expert on this but I have contacted lable makers and the volume is very important to the price. Especially when they are being sold at a discount garden center.
6. Why is it that everyone on here says don't buy at the big box stores yet there are so many post about shopping there.
7.I personally doubt it was Forbidden Fruit. Maybe it was First Frost, Fluted Fountain, Frank Fetch, Fragrant Fire, Frosted Frolic etc. I am in no way saying Bkay is lying or mistaken. I have been wrong man times. THIS IS THE POINT.I want to see the proof when a claim that can be considered slander is made. The truth is not slander but without proof you need to be careful. Rob


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Being a newbie not only to this site but hostas in general and not knowing any better I bought a hosta from Lowes about 10 days ago. It was tagged as Forbidden Fruit but that obviously is not the case. Can anyone identify this hosta for me ?


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Being a newbie not only to this site but hostas in general and not knowing any better I bought a hosta from Lowes about 10 days ago. It was tagged as Forbidden Fruit but that obviously is not the case. Can anyone identify this hosta for me ?


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Hi Charlie44. I see you just registered today. Welcome.Where is the Lowes you purchased it from. Most people save the pot and tag just incase it dies. Can you post a picture of the tag please. Where are you located ? This is a great coincidence that you are a newbie to the forum and we are discussing a plant you just purchased. Almost Lotto type odds. Rob


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

The Lowes I purchased it from is in Richardson, Texas, I'm in Garland, Texas. Unfortunately I no longer have the tag, I didn't realize it would be needed. Sorry. Charlie


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Evidently the supplier to Texas Lowes has a plethora of 'Forbidden Fruit' tags. Maybe someone tried to pirate it and had a crop failure or got cold feet and decided to use the tags anyway.

"I want to see the proof when a claim that can be considered slander is made"

A bit over the top, Rob. Bkay was only giving us a heads up on what was seen. Besides, legally, were it malicious, it would be libel. ;-)

tj


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Rob, I don't think there's much else I can say. I feel confident that there would be no request for proof if it had been Sum and Substance or June. I think your outrage is situational. I understand that, and I hope it never happens to you or your introductions.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. If there is something I can do that will benefit the developer of that hosta, such as finding the grower, I will be glad to. He just has to ask.

I saw the diseased hosta at the Richardson store where Charlie bought his hosta. Those hosta are not in any other Lowe's on the northeast side of Dallas. I've checked them all.

Other than that, I want to say that Lowe's did the right thing. They pulled ALL the plants from that grower and removed them from their shelves, which I never thought they would do.

bkay


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Okay, Sorry Charlie, figure out how to post a picture and put er up here. I'm wanting to see just what it is you bought that said Forbidden Fruit. And why did you choose that particular plant, if not for the name, and then throw out the tag? Do you have other hosta that you know how to care for etc?

What a major coincidence to have you post to this one thread about the Forbidden Fruit. Looking up info on a hosta whose name tag you threw away. Major coincidence.


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

What's wrong with the picture that I already posted ? I chose that plant because my wife liked the way it looked. I'm not sure what it is you're implying.


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Bkay, I really am not outraged. This is just a casual conversation. I know I was being sarcastic in my last response and a little over the top. I am only 6'-9 but I was baffled that you were not getting my point. What you were saying was Lowes was selling a plant with a virus labeled Forbidden Fruit that looked like Orange Marmalade. That Charlie bought and his looks like Gold Standard from the same Lowes. You and others are saying that Lowes is potentially bootlegging plants to avoid royalities using extra tags that a label maker provided to a grower to misrepresent a plant.I am beginning to see the second shooter in the grassy knoll behing the large hosta. I am no attorney so excuse me for confusing slander with libel. I felt the need to use stronger words than "be careful". What would happen on this forum if someone said they saw a HVX plant at Hallsons and did not provide proof. I think everyone would come to Hallsons defense. There should be the same standard of proof for everyone. Rob


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Bkay, did the plants you saw look like the one Charlie bought?

Moccasin, not everyone saves their plant tags. I save them so I can keep track of what I have, not in case the plant dies. But some people throw them away.

Charlie, welcome to the forum. It's normally a pretty friendly place.

I wish everyone would calm down.

Deanna


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

No, I don't think Lowe's is bootlegging plants. I think a small grower is bootlegging plants to Lowe's. Lowe's is certainly not knowingly involved in illegal activities.

Unless Mr. Franzen is willing to go forward with this, I think that you and wasting our time and energy. If the plant is PPAF, and Mr. Franzen wants some help in asserting his claim, I'll assist him.

Other than that, we're wasting our time.

bkay


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

I would like to make sure everyone understands that my reason for making the post was to ask what plant I purchased not to cast blame on Lowes. So now I ask can I assume this is Gold Standard ?


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Garden fanatic, look up Orange Marmalade on hostalibrary.org and then look up Forbidden Fruit. See if you can tell the difference, especially if they aren't next to each other. They are almost as similar as Minuteman and Patriot.

Charlie, that might be Gold Standard, but mine is much lighter than that right now. below is my gold standard a couple of weeks ago. If you can take the photo in a larger size, so that we can see the detail of the leaves, it would be easier to tell what it is. It will probably change colors later in the season, which will help identify it, as will the flowers. If it's GS, it will turn light green in the center and then yellow later int he summer.

Note the size of my photo. (This was my first time trying the black background for the photo, so they will improve, hopefully). It just a change on the camera setting. Photobucket has unlimited storage, so you don't have to make small photos.

Since this thread will go away, (hopefully today) start a new message with either NOID or ID help please in the subject. Another photo will help, though.

Welcome to the hosta list. We usually aren't this contentious. I see in the photo you have other hosta in pots. They do well for me in NE Dallas, so I'm sure they will do well for you.

bkay

Photobucket


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Bkay, if you click on the photo it will enlarge it. The photo is actually alot larger. Thanks for the help.


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Here's another pic.

Here is a link that might be useful: Photobucket


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RE: Forbidden Fruit update

Charlie, I apologize for being short tempered with you. Not my usual nature. Hope you can accept and not hold it against the forum. I did not have the photos show up yesterday, and I also posted the two pictures of my two plants somewhere, and they are NOT here, so I'm back to being confused.

I will repost the Orange Marmalade beside the Forbidden Fruit. They do not look anything alike. Both of mine are young plants received this spring. Anyway, here they are.
H.'Orange Marmalade' & 'Forbidden Fruit'

Forbidden Fruit has a tougher leaf and a broader green margin than OM.
Hosta 'Forbidden Fruit'

And then OM has a more delicate leaf, and it goes from orange into a creamy white fairly quickly with a lot of sun.
Hosta 'Orange Marmalade'


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