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jon_beard89

HVX is not a great threat to your gardens.

Jon 6a SE MA
11 years ago

HVX cannot be spread unless the diseased hosta is cut and the sap from the leaves, petioles or roots enters a cut in an uninfected hosta. No other means of propagation has been seen or is possible according to the studies done to date.

In order to spread HVX it is necessary to wound both the infected and uninfected host hosta. If shovels, pruners, scissors or other cutting tools are regularly disinfected by scrubbing infection is only possible if you simultaneously cut the roots of multiple hostas during division, transplantation and pruning.

I see cases of HVX shown here that are isolated cases. The only mass infections are swaths of the same cultivar that were planted together and were logically all infected when planted.

I think that HVX is more easily controlled than imagined. One almost sure way to spread the disease is to start digging out infected hostas. This is just about the best way to spread HVX that I can think of. Another is to dig out a hosta actively infected and then planting another in infected soil. The only ways to spread the virus in a home garden is through cutting tools and by digging out live infected hostas since all the studies show HVX cannot live except in live tissue. Theories that the virus can go dormant or live in dead plant matter are unsupported by all scientific studies.

I don't see HVX as a very dangerous threat to a hosta collection if one is aware of these basic facts, utilizes good sanitation procedures when digging or cutting, removes and safely disposes diseased material and ensures any infected hosta is dead before digging it out. If these procedures are followed then HVX can be kept isolated to the diseased plant and does not pose a great threat to your collection.

Jon

Comments (46)

  • Pieter zone 7/8 B.C.
    11 years ago

    Read the HVX research summary linked below. You are incorrect on the soil issue, check the center column on the second page.

    Pieter

    Here is a link that might be useful: HVX research summary

  • irawon
    11 years ago

    Pieter, I read the research summary twice and it was MY impression that the soil remains hosta virus X contaminated ONLY while living plant plant debris (roots) remains in the soil. It SEEMED to ME that the recommendation to scrub all tools to remove dirt and sap before disinfecting was because of the potential for sap and living tissue to still be present in the dirt and the tools.

    Jonny, the study seems to support your assertion that it is safer to remove an infected hosta when it is dead. So, do you suggest spraying infected plants with RoundUp or WipeOut before removing. If so how would you determine that all the roots are dead? I found it interesting that the spread of HVX is less likely after flowering, which makes me rethink whether spring is the ideal time to divide and transplant hostas. And you do recommend good sanitation practices such as scrubbing and disinfecting digging and cutting tools.

    I bought Lysol disinfecting spray on chrispher's recommendation. However, how long does the disinfecting agent (Dawn, 70% alcohol, 10% bleach) have to remain on the tool for it to be effective?

  • paul_in_mn
    11 years ago

    Jon, in general I agree where you are coming from - one caveat, we don't know what we don't know. Asking questions and having a dose of doubt is healthy. Not that long ago the consensus was that the virus couldn't remain in the soil after the plant was removed. Now they are researching to what extent it can remain. At one point it was believed that there were some Hosta that were HVX resistant. What will change next transmission by insect, pollen, animal....what about mutation....

    Science and knowledge are a crutch - we read something and believe that we now know all we need to know. And we quote it as gospel that will never change. So caution in believing you have it all under control......remember, we don't know what we don't know.

    Paul

  • eclecticcottage
    11 years ago

    Here's a different concern-what if all that disinfecting causes it to mutate into a more resistant virus, much like MRSA in humans?

  • Steve Massachusetts
    11 years ago

    EC, that is not possible. This is not like a bacteria being controlled with an antibiotic. Alcohol breaks down the cell walls. That's how it kills both viruses and bacteria. They can't become "resistant" to it. Use all the hand sanitizer you want.

    Steve

  • coll_123
    11 years ago

    I don't think it's a very big threat to the home gardener, either. It's pretty easy to identify once you know what to look for, so it's easy enough to avoid buying infected plants that are showing symptoms. Not so easy to avoid buying infected plants that are NOT showing symptoms , of course. However, even if you bring a "sleeper" HVX plant into your garden, it's not hard to not spread the virus by simply practicing good garden hygiene and not planting things too close together where root co-mingling could be an issue. I think nematodes are a bigger threat, if one cares about having a garden free of all pests and diseases.

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    11 years ago

    i guess you could sum it up this way..

    YOU ARE THE THREAT ... otherwise its benign

    ken

  • User
    11 years ago

    Ken, you remind me of Pogo Possum...
    He said,

    "We have met the enemy and it is US."
    Ah, such wisdom in the Okefenokee.

    Plus, another famous quotation or bon mot:
    IGNORANCE IS BLISS. Another way of saying,
    you don't know what you don't know. So be careful.

  • trudy_gw
    11 years ago

    Have seen a couple of gardens with some really bad HVX. One was in an arboretum, looked like the yard crew had taken a weed-eater along the edge of a Golden Tiara hosta border.
    Was real ugly! Strange to see that twice in gardens. Not sure if the second garden was another smaller variety.

  • Steve Massachusetts
    11 years ago

    However, for someone who doesn't know what HVX is, it can devastate a garden. As Trudy points out workers in a garden who don't know anything about how viruses like HVX spread can and have completely ruin gardens. I also know of a garden in an Arboretum that has a large number of Sum and Substance as well as H. Sugar and Cream that are virused. I'm sure they cut the scapes without sanitizing tools in between plants. I know that they compost the foliage. I only see about a dozen of the 50 or so Hosta with symptoms, but I wonder about all of them.

    Here's a couple of pics.

    Here you can see that some of the virused Sugar and Cream has been eaten by the deer. I wonder if it gives them indigestion.

    Steve

  • paul_in_mn
    11 years ago

    Another round of the "Don't know what you don't know - there are many hosta collectors (society members met on bus tours in the last 4 year) that are not familiar with and/or heard about but wouldn't know what it HVX looks like. A couple of tour gardens have had hvx infected plants and when discussed with host - they appreciated knowing and learning. So education and identification are still a problem not just for new hosta gardeners.

    Melissa hopefully can add to these thoughts.

    Paul

  • hostahillbilly
    11 years ago

    This is a dangerous thread.

    HVX IS IS IS a dangerous problem.

    The Agdia rep/teacher at Hosta College two years ago congratulated the Hosta Community regarding it's strong pro-active efforts in stemming the once burgeoning problem.

    That said, now is not the time to become complacent.

    Every year I see HVX in big box stores, and even in large professional greenhouses and nurseries, and take the time to try to educate them.

    My objection to this post is the blank statement that, quote, HVX is not threat to your gardens.

    I'm sure glad the posters gardens are not across the street from ours, teehee!

    From my status as an amateur husband of a hostaholic wife viewpoint, such a brash statement more than deserves strong rebuttal, especially after having seen the HVX problem far and wide in our limited (Great Lakes Area) normal area of travel.

    Perhaps if the subject line read ' I'm not all too sure HVX is as big a deal as it's made out to be' I would be less potent with my response.

    In fact, that is my position, for now.

    On the other hand, I'm personally certain that HVX, and the other (are you ready for THIS?) some half dozen other virus that can be a problem (Tobacco Mosaic Virus is the first and most likely to be our next problem, AFAIK) deserve our attention to attempt to 'nip in the bud'.

    After Hosta Virus class at Hosta College two years ago, that very year I found some TMV positive,and easily ID'd, at more than one local big box store.

    Summary: I dont' believe that it's a good idea to believe that HVX is not a real threat to your garden,

    My opinion only,

    hh

  • Cricket_Love
    11 years ago

    The two pics posted in this thread do not appear to be HVX as the bleeding isn't coming from the veins, but rather in between them.

    My view, I value my gardens and will take every step in preventive measures against HVX, as I believe it IS a danger to the home gardener.

  • Carole Westgaard
    11 years ago

    If the damage to the leaves in the above two pix are not HVX, what are the possible diseases? I have the same affliction in three of my HUGE ones - e.g. I can't possibly dig them out and don't trust any strong 'digger' so they're going to have to stay or be killed by Roundup - I assume after the freeze and I can easily get to the roots. Removing the leaves will be another challenge - no cutting.

    Westy

  • Steve Massachusetts
    11 years ago

    Cricket,

    There is no doubt in my mind, that those two plants have HVX. That Sugar and Cream and about another 6 plants of the same cultivar have every leaf that looks like that.

    Steve

  • Jon 6a SE MA
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    "I don't see HVX as a very dangerous threat to a hosta collection if one is aware of these basic facts, utilizes good sanitation procedures when digging or cutting, removes and safely disposes diseased material and ensures any infected hosta is dead before digging it out. If these procedures are followed then HVX can be kept isolated to the diseased plant and does not pose a great threat to your collection."

    I, in no way implied that if ignored there is no danger. As to swaths of a particular type of hosta being affected I would suggest that this would be most likely introduced through having the batches having been produced by tissue culture. Of course contaminated tools could spread the virus, but it would not limit the spread to one or two types of hosta.

    Of course everyone should be aware of the virus and be careful of where we buy plants and to be careful when placing "risky" purchases into proximity to prized plants. My message was that even if a plant is infected, there are ways to handle the situation with out spreading it further.

    Ken, a hosta infected with HVX is benign unless YOU cut it and YOU cut another plant and cause it to be infected.

    As in anything else, panic is not your friend. The natural instinct is to get rid of the infected plant as quickly as possible. Digging it out without killing the tissue is the best way to spread the virus and also the very best way to contaminate the soil with bits of infected live tissue that can exist for a couple of years.

  • in ny zone5
    11 years ago

    HVX is a great threat to your garden, all viruses are, because you do not know that you got it originally and then spread it not knowing better.

    It is similar with nematodes. I have plants (3 or 4) which showed it the second year after I planted them, so I spread those too. I am treating that with insecticides containing Merit, seemed to have helped last year. I will see the effect in a month.

    In respect to HVX, I used Agdia strips on 2 hostas last night. Those hostas looked like the ones shown by Steve. Both tests were completed, one was HVX, one was not. So the non-HVX plant has some other virus. I will remove both. The HVX plant is a 15 year old Honeybells, showed the virus suddenly this spring.

    I have a healthy Krossa Regal growing in a spot (with fresh soil) where I removed completely, including all soil, a similar looking plant last year.
    More than a month ago I sprayed with Roundup (twice) 2 small and one larger plant. After the small plants' leaves dried up, I waited a week and then dug the area up and threw the soil into the garbage. There are now two holes. I noticed that roots were still looking fresh. The larger plant's site no longer has leaves and waits also to be dug up, carefully.

    After removing soil and plants I will line the holes with newspaper and cover it with fresh soil from HD and leafmold. This worked for tsugajunkie (I think) and my Krossa Regal is doing fine.
    Bernd

  • trudy_gw
    11 years ago

    HVX has many symptoms, the above shows the tissue collapsing.

    Josh from In the Country Gardens has written and put together a nice article online on HVX.
    http://www.inthecountrygardenandgifts.com/articles/hosta_virus_x.php

    The key here is for everyone to be more informed on the hosta viruses of hosta, of which there are more than just HVX.

    Here is a link that might be useful: collapsing tissue

  • Jon 6a SE MA
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Bernd,

    You are correct in saying, "HVX is a great threat to your garden, all viruses are, because you do not know that you got it originally and then spread it not knowing better."

    ...if you are not aware of the disease and if you do not properly disinfect tools. If you disinfect tools the virus can spread only by some very freak condition, such as an infected plant and an uninfected plant being accidentally run over by a lawnmower.

    You did the right thing by killing the infected plants with glyphosate before digging them up. I don't know if 2 weeks is long enough to ensure all the roots are dead. Myself, I would wait over the winter before any new plantings.

    I think you have made my point which was that, if you kill the plant there is no chance of spreading the virus and if sterilization rules are followed HVX is not a great threat. Given a choice between HVX and nematodes; give me HVX any day. HVX is far less of a danger and far easier to control.

    HVX is not a great danger to your garden.....with awareness.

  • trudy_gw
    11 years ago

    Danger comes when folks are not informed and unsure of the identification of the virus.

  • Jon 6a SE MA
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    trudy, identification is very tricky...and expensive to thoroughly do for a home garden. I don't think there are many or any that can be sure of a certain virus without testing. None of them are curable.

    If HVX is verified then it could not have spread unless unsterilzed tools have cut both the infected plant and another plant. HVX will die off if the plant (roots and all) are killed. It will not spread unless cut and there is no hurry to dig it out. Digging it before killing it is dangerous.

    Other viruses spread by thrips and nematodes can spread far more easily from plant to plant. In my opinion the threat of HVX to neighboring plants is minimal.

    Planting an infected hosta and "teasing" its roots causes sap leakage which can spread into any hosta that may have been nicked in the process. Keeping "gifted" or unreliably sourced hostas seperate for a number of years is prudent.

    All in all if you are aware of how HVX is transmitted it is a far lesser threat to your garden than other viruses which are spread far more easily. Of course if you are unaware and go around using unsterilized tools or quickly dig out an infected hosta, then you are asking for trouble.

    Spead by humans can be stopped with knowledge and a few simple techniques. Stopping the spread by insects or roundworms requires a lot more knowledge and a great deal of effort.

    That's all I am saying. Given a choice; give me HVX.

  • Pieter zone 7/8 B.C.
    11 years ago

    Jonnyboy,

    Theories that the virus can go dormant or live in dead plant matter are unsupported by all scientific studies.

    I didn't have enough time to elaborate in my initial reply since I was at work, but, go back and re-read the link I included.

    Fresh infected plant material was always infective. Soil with HVX plant debris and root material was infective for more than two years.

    Pieter

  • Jon 6a SE MA
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Peiter,

    "Soil with HVX plant debris and root material was infective for more than two years." has been misinterpreted by you. It simply means that HVX can survive a long time in hosta tissue when buried.

    HVX survives only in living plant tissue and dies without a living host.
    http://www.hostalibrary.org/firstlook/HVX.htm

    Further on plant viruses:
    Viruses
    Viruses are crystalline particles composed of nucleic acid (RNA or DNA) and protein. They are obligate parasites, meaning they are unable to survive outside of their host.

    http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/331.html#viruses
    It has been verified by Professor Lockhart that HVX virus is no exception.

    Nothing in your refererence suggests otherwise.

    Also Peiter; your use of pejorative and childish name-calling doesn't enhance your position.

    Jon

  • Steve Massachusetts
    11 years ago

    Jon,

    I think you and Pieter are both correct. The point is we don't know how small (microscopic?) the plant or root material might be that can support a virus cell. If the plant material can remain viable in the soil for at least two years, then my guess is that the material is pretty small. I believe that this question will be addressed and hopefully answered in the new round of research that is currently ongoing. In the meantime let's just all be careful about how we handle virused plants. And remember we all have the same goal. We all want to use Hosta to enhance the beauty of our natural surroundings.

    Steve

  • Jon 6a SE MA
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Steve,

    Viruses are very small and can survive on minute specks of living tissue for a long time. The reports of living 2 years on root and plant debris are not very specific as to what comprises "plant debris and root material".It could be one or more plants simply buried. I don't know, but specifying both plant debris and root material indicates to me that more than remnants of the root system left after digging were involved in the test.

    Pieter refuted my statement that HVX does not live outside of live tissue. He is wrong. Pieter then tried to suggest that a statement that HVX can live for 2 years in an unspecified amount of roots and plant material buried in the ground proves that HVX can live in dead matter when this is impossible according to every study that has been conducted. Testing under strict laboratory conditions has proven that plant viruses cannot survive without live tissue. This is consistent with every other plant virus known to man.

    Pieter and I are not both right. Pieter is wrong.

    Jon

  • in ny zone5
    11 years ago

    In my case I dug out the HVX plant, the HVX soil, the minute plant parts with the virus on it and placed it into the garbage. The virus might continue to live in the garbage dump for 2 years and convert to Methane.
    Bernd

  • trudy_gw
    11 years ago

    Many herds of deer are invading into suburban gardens. Deer love to munch on hostas. One thing that concerns me is deer eating a hosta with a virus in any neighbors gardens or an arboretum garden and then spreading the virus! Is anybody else thinking this? Chris from Hallson's if you read this do you have any input on the subject!

    Many deer wont spread virus, but again its and unkown. Or maybe there is a Lysol wipe the deer could clean up with in between gardens.

    This brings up another question...Do bee's carry the virus on the pollen they spread. I think the virus would be more rampant if this was the case. There are just to many variables in the viruses around, just be aware.

    Call me paranoid!

  • trudy_gw
    11 years ago

    Call me paranoid, but have seen way to many hostas with HVX and other virus in convention tours, club tours and other folks gardens!
    Few years ago never saw as many as the past couple of years.

    The word is out there, but it still shows up in gardens. Not backing down on this one, yes it is a threat to anyone's garden, as the virus can hide for years and then one day it shows up!
    Now foliar nematodes that is another story, but we are talking virus.

  • Steve Massachusetts
    11 years ago

    Trudy,

    I asked Bill Meyers this question about seed. Usually Potex viruses don't spread through seed. But Bill pointed to a Korean research study that found HVX was carried through seed of an infected Blue Cadet to a succeeding generation at a rate of 7.5%. That is very disconcerting.

    Steve

    Here is a link that might be useful: Seed Transmission of HVX

  • trudy_gw
    11 years ago

    Seed transmission of HVX.....

    Thanks for the article Steve, have heard this before but I was not sure where the info was located.

  • coll_123
    11 years ago

    I must admit I am shocked that anyone that is a hosta collector would not be aware of HvX. I started my garden in 2006 and when I started researching what I wanted to grow- hosta- the info was everywhere. Heck, just about every other thread on this board in the Spring pertains to HVX.

    A few years ago I visited the botanical garden at mid coast, Maine, they have some large mass hosta plantings there, and noticed a group of infected Katherine Lewis... I emailed the garden after my visit and one of the staff emailed me back thanking me for the heads up. They were familiar with the virus and had a problem with another batch somewhere else in the garden and said they would check out the Katherine Lewis'. I haven't been back to check, but I imagine they took care of it.

    If you accept that it is out there, and could even be lying dormant in some of your own hosta, I still don't view it as a great threat to the educated gardener. Yes, it's a threat that you could lose THAT hosta. But if you treat ALL your hosta as if they could potentially have it, you shouldn't worry about losing your whole garden.

  • Jon 6a SE MA
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    coll,

    Bingo.

    Jon

  • sunnydaysrainynights
    9 years ago

    I feel like I've been living a sheltered life. Somehow I never knew about the hosta virus. Yesterday I bought an infected hosta not knowing it was infected, thinking it was cool looking. When I posted the picture here everyone quickly told me to get rid of it which I did today. So it got me thinking. 3 years ago my aunt had given me a piece of her hosta and I always thought it looked strange. Just not right. I didn't think it was sick though. I thought it was just a funky pattern. Anyway I now know that it indeed has the hosta virus. I also now know that the plant is Blue Cadet. I didn't have it beside any other hostas. It was in the middle of day lilies and irises so I felt confident in carefully digging it out. However what horrifies me now is the fact that when I cut my hostas back in the fall I am sure that I inadvertently infected my other hosta plants. How many years do I have until the symptoms start to show up on my other hostas so I know which ones I will have to trash? I really wish I would have known about the virus and what it looked like before so I wouldn't have cut everything down using the same tool. I am so mad at myself! When the disease does show up on my others, is it okay to dig them out, trash them and plant a totally different plant (that's not a hosta) in their place? Thanks

  • Jon 6a SE MA
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I'm sorry, but the time period would be up to 10 years. My suggestion is that if the virus shows up in any other hosta, the safe method would be to treat the infected hosta with glyphosate (Roundup) to ensure all living tissue is killed. I would wait over the Winter to be sure.

    Any living bit of root or other tissue can host the HVX virus for 2 years or more, according to testing paid for by the Hosta Society . If I had your situation, that is what I would do.

    Jon

  • ci_lantro
    9 years ago

    However what horrifies me now is the fact that when I cut my hostas back in the fall I am sure that I inadvertently infected my other hosta plants.

    I'm going to assume that you cut them back when the foliage was dead or dying...if that was the case, then, IMO (and I'm no HVX expert) you should stop worrying. I believe that the plant needs to be actively growing in order to transmit the virus.

  • in ny zone5
    9 years ago

    Recently I thought I had 6 plants with HVX virus, but tests with valid Agdia strips showed they do not have HVX, but probably something else. I will start a new thread.
    I have plants growing healthy in spots in which were HVX plants before, that is after I removed plants and their soil, lined the spots, then filled with fresh soil.
    Bernd

  • Jon 6a SE MA
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    ci_lantro,

    HVX cannot live in dead tissue, it can be transmitted in live tissue even if it is dying back. The virus would quickly be transmitted down into the crown and roots were it would survive. The only ways to kill HVX are antibacterial bleach or dishwashing (Dawn) liquid on tools or by killing the live tissue it needs to survive.

    The hosta only needs to be alive, not actively growing. The juice from a dormant hosta is still contagious.

    Jon

  • bkay2000
    9 years ago

    In this day and time, I don't think I'd be cutting back my hosta in the fall.I'd certainly give up the practice if I knew I had HVX in the garden.

    Just my opinion.

    bk

  • in ny zone5
    9 years ago

    bkay, you are correct. You also do not know if you have HVX already in your garden. Some plants will never show it. Other plants might wait several years before they show it. In all those years HVX would be transported around the garden via cuts.
    Bernd

  • Jon 6a SE MA
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Since bleach or Dawn dishwashing liquid will kill HVX I would think swishing the shears in between plants in a Dawn / water solution would be a good precaution. Personally I just pick up the previous leaves in the Spring. I realize that some cannot stand having dying or dead leaves hanging around all Winter so I suggest the sanitation between plants to safeguard the hosta and satisfy the desire to have a meticulous garden even in the winter.

    Jon

    PS- I prefer Dawn because it is a detergent and will wash tools as well as sanitize, is not as stringent as bleach and dumping it on the ground anywhere and washing the tools and bucket is easy.

  • sunnydaysrainynights
    9 years ago

    Thank-you all. I will give up Fall cleaning of my hostas and wait until the following spring to trash old winter foliage. Beyond that, I guess I will just wait and in the years to come, when and if symptoms occur, I will deal with it. I let my aunt know last night as well. She said that was the first hosta she ever bought and planted. What rotten luck. I told her how to properly dispose of the diseased plant and she did it this morning. She will wait to see what happens with her other hostas in years to come as well. This disease is a real bummer!

  • ci_lantro
    9 years ago

    The juice from a dormant hosta is still contagious.

    Yes, I understand that. My thinking is that a healthy, domant/ nearly dormant hosta is going to be very much less likely to contract the virus because the plant's 'circulatory system', if you will, has shut down.

    Make sense??

  • leafwatcher
    9 years ago

    I only wish I had learned some of this before buying cheap Hosta from the big box stores.. and then moving them around for a couple years... But I never really researched Hosta until finding this site. It was mostly just dipping my toes in the water until I found out about the sharks ! (HVX)

  • in ny zone5
    9 years ago

    sunnydays, you can do fall cleaning by waiting until all foliage has dried after a few frosts. Then you can simply pull it off. Cleaning up will remove litter which can harbor diseases and slug eggs and provides a cover for voles and their runs. This way you also will not step on hosta pips in spring when cleaning up then.

    Jon, swishing is not good enough, you have to brush the tools too to remove any plant pieces.
    HVX seems to be equal to other hosta viruses (see my thread) in the response required, that is after you detect a virus for certain on a hosta, remove the hosta and soil completely.
    Bernd

  • sunnydaysrainynights
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the Fall cleaning tips! I will wait until after a few frosts and then do the clean-up.

  • Jon 6a SE MA
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    ci_lantro,

    Yes, verified less likely by studies, but still very possible.

    Jon