I've both posted a ? about whether S&S I have seen this spring are HVX infected or not, and responded to others pictures of similar looking S&S. Yesterday, searching for pictures for my sick hosta binder, I'd read the AHGA publishment that said yellow hostas ink bleed green from the veins, which is what I believe I'd seen at the store.

Right now I would warn any new hosta grower to be very leery of any S&S being sold by mass merchandizers such as big-box stores, and chain retailers who have spring greenhouse sales like grocery and hardware stores.

S&S has been a very good seller and it seems the Dutch have jumped into profiting from it's popularity and have flooded the market with HVX infected TC's in the last few years. Their indiscretions for profit are a perfect example how short term greed can destroy a market. If I know someone who wants S&S I will give them a small division from my clean 20 year old, and tell them not to buy one right now.

I told our local chain hardware people exactly that when I told them they should pull their S&S off of the shelf if they want to sell plants a couple of years from now. Except for it's not being fatal to people, the business ethics are not too different from selling ecoli infected chickens. IMO

This makes me mad! Last year I found a new garden center that had a lot of really good looking hostas, some of which I wanted. B4 selecting I talked to the owner. I asked him his thoughts about hvx without going into detail. With no hesitation he told me he will not buy any hosta that has come out of Holland. It told me he was aware of the dilemma. It wasn't a guarantee, but it did give me more confidence in his center.

Theresa

I've both posted a ? about whether S&S I have seen this spring are HVX infected or not, and responded to others pictures of similar looking S&S. Yesterday, searching for pictures for my sick hosta binder, I'd read the AHGA publishment that said yellow hostas ink bleed green from the veins, which is what I believe I'd seen at the store.

Right now I would warn any new hosta grower to be very leery of any S&S being sold by mass merchandizers such as big-box stores, and chain retailers who have spring greenhouse sales like grocery and hardware stores.

S&S has been a very good seller and it seems the Dutch have jumped into profiting from it's popularity and have flooded the market with HVX infected TC's in the last few years. Their indiscretions for profit are a perfect example how short term greed can destroy a market. If I know someone who wants S&S I will give them a small division from my clean 20 year old, and tell them not to buy one right now.

I told our local chain hardware people exactly that when I told them they should pull their S&S off of the shelf if they want to sell plants a couple of years from now. Except for it's not being fatal to people, the business ethics are not too different from selling ecoli infected chickens. IMO

This makes me mad! Last year I found a new garden center that had a lot of really good looking hostas, some of which I wanted. B4 selecting I talked to the owner. I asked him his thoughts about hvx without going into detail. With no hesitation he told me he will not buy any hosta that has come out of Holland. It told me he was aware of the dilemma. It wasn't a guarantee, but it did give me more confidence in his center.

Theresa

I've both posted a ? about whether S&S I have seen this spring are HVX infected or not, and responded to others pictures of similar looking S&S. Yesterday, searching for pictures for my sick hosta binder, I'd read the AHGA publishment that said yellow hostas ink bleed green from the veins, which is what I believe I'd seen at the store.

Right now I would warn any new hosta grower to be very leery of any S&S being sold by mass merchandizers such as big-box stores, and chain retailers who have spring greenhouse sales like grocery and hardware stores.

S&S has been a very good seller and it seems the Dutch have jumped into profiting from it's popularity and have flooded the market with HVX infected TC's in the last few years. Their indiscretions for profit are a perfect example how short term greed can destroy a market. If I know someone who wants S&S I will give them a small division from my clean 20 year old, and tell them not to buy one right now.

I told our local chain hardware people exactly that when I told them they should pull their S&S off of the shelf if they want to sell plants a couple of years from now. Except for it's not being fatal to people, the business ethics are not too different from selling ecoli infected chickens. IMO

This makes me mad! Last year I found a new garden center that had a lot of really good looking hostas, some of which I wanted. B4 selecting I talked to the owner. I asked him his thoughts about hvx without going into detail. With no hesitation he told me he will not buy any hosta that has come out of Holland. It told me he was aware of the dilemma. It wasn't a guarantee, but it did give me more confidence in his center.

Theresa

I've both posted a ? about whether S&S I have seen this spring are HVX infected or not, and responded to others pictures of similar looking S&S. Yesterday, searching for pictures for my sick hosta binder, I'd read the AHGA publishment that said yellow hostas ink bleed green from the veins, which is what I believe I'd seen at the store.

Right now I would warn any new hosta grower to be very leery of any S&S being sold by mass merchandizers such as big-box stores, and chain retailers who have spring greenhouse sales like grocery and hardware stores.

S&S has been a very good seller and it seems the Dutch have jumped into profiting from it's popularity and have flooded the market with HVX infected TC's in the last few years. Their indiscretions for profit are a perfect example how short term greed can destroy a market. If I know someone who wants S&S I will give them a small division from my clean 20 year old, and tell them not to buy one right now.

I told our local chain hardware people exactly that when I told them they should pull their S&S off of the shelf if they want to sell plants a couple of years from now. Except for it's not being fatal to people, the business ethics are not too different from selling ecoli infected chickens. IMO

This makes me mad! Last year I found a new garden center that had a lot of really good looking hostas, some of which I wanted. B4 selecting I talked to the owner. I asked him his thoughts about hvx without going into detail. With no hesitation he told me he will not buy any hosta that has come out of Holland. It told me he was aware of the dilemma. It wasn't a guarantee, but it did give me more confidence in his center.

Theresa

Sorry about the multible posts. I have no idea what happened. When I'd hit submit it didn't show my posting had been but gave a pop-up asksing if I wanted to open or save (with 3 options) it. I tried all 4 and never was shown I'd posted, the result being 4 identical postings.

????? scratch-scratch!

Theresa

I want to add my experience...not intended to plug W-M...just simply stating facts.

Before I forget...if you buy, but are concerned anyway, leave your plant in a pot for a few years while you monitor it. IF the virus manifests itself you'll have to dispose of it, pot and all. Before disposal, you'll likely alert the forum, as I would, to assist in identifying said virus and then proceed accordingly.

F.Y.I. I own 3 hosta that I bought at my local W-M...one in each of the last three years. They grow in pots....pPrecautionary steps....to date, they are fine. I'm not naiive-there is a chance they might still get sick, but at the end of the day, I'm the one taking the chance and possible loss. Not probable, just possible. Since I'm a responsible hosta lover, I would, and will report any suspected virus carrier - plant and plant supplier.

Guarantee or no guarantee, hosta lover or newbie, it is better to make informed decisions at the outset. This forum is here to assist, to inform, to enable, to encourage, to applaud, to share and to enjoy. Ultimately how you garden, where you shop, what you buy remains your decision. I've found that you cannot help but learn here......the knowledge and experience is invaluable, in my honest opinion.

Happy gardening!

Jo.

Another repeat

This post was edited by josephines67 on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 9:53

Theresa, if you're posting ignore the "safari cannot download this file" because it does it anyway each time you retry.

This post was edited by josephines67 on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 9:49

System going crazy?

This post was edited by josephines67 on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 9:45

I still have a Gold Standard HVX infected hosta in my garden,but it has never spread to any other hostas in ten years being there. My take on HVX infected hostas is this;The only one I ever bought that is that way,came from a bag of Gold Standards that that one came from. I have NEVER gotten an infected plant that I bought in a pot,or from online. Just be careful to look at the plants you buy,and your chances are good. Yes,I have bought from from big box stores,and some of them are excellent for many years,now. I even spotted some HVX plants at my local nursery recently,and I told them about it. Yes,i have heard that some plants don't show HVX for many years,but for me,it has never happened. HVX doesn't kill the plant,but it does make it look bad. That's my personal opinion,and not the opinion of the rest of you. Phil

Oh, Phil you are an incorrigible curmudgeon! But I still love all your beautiful woodland hostas...well, except the one you won't destroy. ;-)

-Babka

I wouldn't buy from them, New Hosta Lady. Just my opinion, but two things make me say 'no'. One, is I've purchased HVX-infested plants from my local Wal-Mart, so I'm totally soured by that experience. two, is what Steve already alluded to: I don't like that they're refusing to say who their suppliers are. Red flag; Why won't they tell you? That would make me super-leery, too.

Just my personal opinion; Good luck, and I hope wherever you buy, they are clean!

Regards,
Don B.

Just like I mentioned on another post, they don't know where the starts come from. At least here, they buy from brokers who sell them. Even if they are buying good stock (as in Walters'), they don't know it. They are dealing with multiple kinds of plants. Most are not hosta specialists.

You guys who live in Minnesota and Michigan (and similar areas) have multiple sources for new hosta without going to a big box store. You don't have to buy your hosta sight unseen from someone you don't know.

When you buy through the mail, you hope you get what you ordered, but you don't always. You hope the vendor will replace the mis-identified plant, but they don't always. You hope they will follow your instructions and not mail them in 100 degree weather, but they do. You hope they will send you a plant that has been grown for a couple of years, but they will send you an advanced TC, if it's what they have. They won't give you a price break, either.

It's you guys who live where you have lots of choices who are always giving these lectures on buying through the mail, but you don't.

bk

Bkay- I only order thru the mail. Nothing much around here and what is available is suspect. I always know what I will be getting through the mail, and if something goes awry in the mail they will make good, because I always order from the same suppliers and we have good communication. If they don't carry what I want, I wait until they do. I get them as early as they can possibly ship them in Spring. Sometimes I cave and must have one or two in Summer, but otherwise mine don't usually have leaves on them when I get them mail-ordered in Spring. Just little white eyes with lots of nice roots.

-Babka

You are probably correct, Babka. I've been doing this about 4 or 5 years now. I've learned the hard way not to order from certain mail order suppliers.

I just don't think the chance of getting a $5.99 HVX infected hosta from Lowe's is so much greater than getting a $25.00 (with freight) mislabeled hosta through the mail. You've been cheated either way.

bk

I do believe that I have 100% assurance that Hallson's or Naylor Creek will indeed send me exactly what I order. They have been doing so for over 10 years without fail. A good hosta grower/seller will stand behind his plants, and if one isn't what it is supposed to be they will make it right.

So, I do think my chance of getting a $5.99 HVX infected, or mis-named, not-true-to type hosta from Lowes is far, far FAR greater, and that is a chance I am not willing to take.

-Babka

Well, I tell you that you do not have to wait to find out if your hosta has HVX. Okay, you invest in a package of 5 or 25 HVX test strips from Agdia, which is linked on the Home page of the HostaLibrary.org website.

Let's say, you buy a few hosta from Lowes and take them home. You make a common sample of a part of the leaf of every hosta you just bought. (If one is bad, they might all be bad). And you use ONE test strip for the lot of them. I'd say maybe three or four hosta tops in the one sample. If one has HVX, you take the entire bunch of them back for a refund. You have a year to take back a dead plant or a sick plant normally, right? So get your money back and tell them they tested diseased, and you are reporting them to your state's licensing agency....whatever that might be....or else enforcement. AND you're posting it to your TWITTER/FACEBOOK/REDDIT/etc......Anyway, take the plants back. No way do I have time to sit around and wait two years or three to find out the plant is clean. I'm into "sudden death play-offs."

I bought several nice size hosta this spring. They were a lot bigger than you can get through the mail. They only had a 60 day guarantee.Three of them were labeled Greenleaf, so I tested them. They were clean. Since I grow in pots, HVX is not the worst thing that can happen, but it's nice to know you don't have to worry about it.

bk

Good for you BKAy. Glad to hear someone else is taking the safer route and testing. Only way to go.

Babka, glad to see you posting, I was missing you for whatever reason, did not see your posts lately. Incidentally, when you have time, please put up a current picture of your Snake Eyes. I am sighing for lack of a Snake Eyes......yours is so neat!

Watch for a new thread about a Californian garden with hosta. Frontispiece photo in a book on modern tropical gardens, no less.

Bkay- You have a lot more available locally than I do, so I have to do mail order.

Mocc- Snake Eyes looks the same as it did in Spring, with some wear and tear on the leaves. Didn't get a 2nd flush. Still too new. But that thicker white line remains.

Remodeling here..... and also grandkids visiting... Hostas are coming in 2nd these days.

-Babka

Steve, Idiothe & Ken: you have brought up excellent points to consider. Thank you.

Theresa: You are amazing---warning new hosta growers about S&S I would have liked to know you when I was purchasing my S&S! Keep up the good work. And by the way, I think I was the "winner" of multiple repeat posts----(3). You are now the new "winner" being (4). LOL

Great advice and thoughts Jo. I absolutely agree with you 100 percent. Can I say great minds think alike? LOL

Phil---just curious---why are you keeping your HVX infested Gold Standard?

Don, I agree that since the company is not releasing the names of their suppliers, that that puts up a red flag. I will write them again and see what else they have to say.

bkay2000, I can only say that I did make my first mail order this year. I received good sized plants and would do it again if I couldn't find a hosta I liked at a good nursery. I think Babka makes a good point to buy from the same suppliers so they get to know you and you them. I don't know if this is even possible, but if you were going to make a good sized order with a mail order nursery, could you ask them to supply you with a photo of what you actually are getting? Maybe worth a try . . . or am I dreaming that that could be a possibility?

Moccasinlanding: Just to let you and everyone else know what Chris from Hallson Gardens said regarding testing hosta with test strips.

"In general it would take about a year for a newly infected plant to develop a high enough concentration to test positive with the test strips. If it was only infected at one small spot on the plant then it might take even longer to get all the way to the other side. I always tell people to test at the end of the first growing season for new arrivals, but might take the following season to know for certain." The point being also that we never know when the plant became infected or how long ago, do we? So please consider Chris' advice.

So I am going to write Pan Am Nursery again regarding the Walmart hosta . If I get back a response to my questions, I will let you know.

This post was edited by newhostalady on Sat, Aug 10, 13 at 17:08

Bumped up.

New hosta lady,I just keep it to aggravate the people on the forum! Seriously,though,it doesn't affect any other hostas in my garden,and never has. Since no one ever sees it but me,who would care? Maybe it is to remind me to never buy a plant that looks like that,which I never do,who knows? Phil

Hello-I am a new Hosta grower & love them. Please tell me what is the HVX disease you have been discussing? I received a lovely Hosta from a friend & some of the the leaves look like they are burnt. I don't have ability to post picture of it. Could someone post a picture with this disease showing up on a plant. Thanks & Blessings, Margaret

There are many pictures on the internet if you google and type in "Hosta Virus." There are also pictures on www.hostalibrary.org. I have provided a link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.hostalibrary.org/firstlook/HVX.htm

Margaret 2007,and others,here is a pic of my HVX infected Gold Standard,from way back in April 2004.You'll notice the sign says Albopicta. That was the name on the bag of hostas I got from Lowes then. I soon learned that it was a Gold Standard. The plant on the right is what a normal GS looks like. The one on the left is HVX infected. These two plants are not at this place now,but the 'normal' one is still growing well in another part of the garden,as is the HVX one. They are not anywhere near each other now. This was the earliest pic I could find of the HVX plant,but it was quite unique even then,don't you think? Take a look,everyone. Phil

Yes, very interesting, and ..... odd as well.

That was in 2004? Do you have any pictures of it today? How does it compare now to the real Gold Standard? Your HVX reminds me of the Phantom Of The Opera, wearing a mask.

Hi, Margaret, glad to have you ask the question. Your hosta that you said the leaves look burnt, could very well be sunburned. There are varying degrees of this kind of burn, but here is one I took of H. 'Bette Davis Eyes' after it spent one day in afternoon sun in my zone 9a. She is recovering nicely, and I learned my lesson. Does this look like the burn on your leaves?

The picture is in my desk top computer. I'll have to go look for it. Phil

How interesting it is to me that you have a specimen that has been infected for about a decade, Phil. Quite a curiosity. I echo Mocc's comment, wondering what it looks like now. Very strange with all the 'inkbleed', but then substantial white areas. Then again, even with a virus it's still got that unstable (even for a hosta) Fortunei DNA. Shoot man, market that thing, call it 'Strep Throat' or something. : ) It's OK, I see stores selling infected hosta all the time!

All joking aside, it's morbidly fascinating. Thanks for posting a pic.

Don B.

I'd like to see your infected hosta too! In fact the 2004 version looks rather interesting.

Hello- No, MoccassinLanding-This is nothing like my leaves as mine are definitely brown in color on the edges of some of the leaves. I am watching closely & will try to get a picture of them & post (a new experience for me). Thanks for the picture of yours. Blessings, Margaret

I believe I can safely say that the wide white streaks in Phil's picture have nothing to do with HVX. Those streaks possibly happened in tissue culture. I bought a healthy plant labeled 'S&S' with such streaks, and the next years the plant developed into something like 'Sum it Up'. Bernd

Margaret_2007- You can probably relax, as brown edges are not a symptom of HVX. If that is the only problem with yours, it might just be too dry, too wet or just tired and thinking about going dormant. Learning how to post a photo will be a good thing. To coin a phrase...A picture is worth a thousand words. ;-)

-Babka

I agree with you, Bernd. I'm sure the white streaks aren't HVX-related. I think it's just that Fortuei DNA doing it's thing.

Don B.

I wrote the supplier about some of the concerns raised by forum members and here is the response I now received:

"The reason I am not allowed to give out the names of our suppliers is because of confidentiality, and it's part of our company policy. We have absolutely nothing to hide, I can assure you this. I will say that our hostas are 100% grown in Canada from start to finish and they come from Canadian suppliers.

I hope you can put your trust into our company and buy some of our hostas, I'm sure you will be pleased with the end result! We have never had any consumers say that their hostas have had an outbreak of the virus."

What do you think of this response?

I just find the "start to finish" questionable. When I was actively buying wholesale and selling retail, I would order both tc and bareroot stock from 3 major wholesalers - all in the US. Each had their own sources... both American and European (and occasionally from Asia). They would either sell them to me directly, or grow them then sell them.

If this guy is to be believed, every hosta they sell is from a Canadian division or tissue cultures done in Canada. I know most or all of the top tc producers in the US... and I trust my European connections that they stand behind their European tcs... but I've never heard of a major source of tc hostas in Canada.

I think the guy is trying to be honest - that all those pots you see were potted up and grown, at least for a while, in Canada by various suppliers - middlemen - but I just find it unlikely that they aren't getting their starters... tc and liners... from places outside Canada.

Thanks for your reply Idiothe. It would be really interesting to find out where the tissue culture and liner plants have come from. I will try to find out. Boy are they tired of getting emails from me!

LOL Make 'em even MORE tired, NHL!

Don B.

Jim is right. It's highly unlikely that the TC's are coming only from Canadian sources. There may be a few small TC operations in Canada, but I've never heard of a large scale supplier. My guess is that the person with whom you are emailing doesn't have all the information.

What is the need for confidentiality? Why is it "company policy"? My response would be that it's my policy not to buy plants from unknown sources. There is no legitimate reason for them to not tell you where the Tissue Cultures originated from. Unless, of course, there is something to hide.

Steve

Don B., I will do my best to wear them down. I am sure when they respond to my emails and don't hear back from me for a while, they think they have gotten rid of me. No way. I will keep pushing!

Steve, I agree with your comments! Thanks!

I wrote another email to the Pan American Nursery Products company in September. There has been no response. It's been over a month. I have written them again.

Oh, right; The old 'Just ignore her and hopefully she'll go away' trick. Classy, Pan American. Very classy.

Don B.

worth a registered letter and then they have to sign for it , may get the action required, but then again???

I believe I introduced HVX via a yellow plant marked as S&S from a NY Walmart 4 years ago. It also was not S&S. So I no longer buy hostas from W.

I agree Don. The easiest thing to do is to ignore and hope that the person will just go away.

That's an interesting idea almosthooked. I will give it some consideration.

Bernd, it's always hard to resist a lovely hosta with a great price. But having HVX just once will bring one back to reality. I understand why you wouldn't buy from them anymore.

I notice that Pan American Nursery Products has their 2014 catalogue out. On the second page they list their sales and management team along with pictures and emails. Perhaps the next step would be to contact someone from that page. Yes, I think that is what I will do. I will keep you informed as to what, if anything, happens.

It was not only that one plant from W, HVX costs me 2 plants (out of 300) every year now for 3 years. Bernd

I persevered and have another response to my email. Here is their recent response to me:

"Unfortunately it is company policy that we do not divulge our supplier list.

However, Pan American ensures that our product is free of this virus, as we are one of only two Nurseries in Ontario that are part of the 'Clean Plants Certification Program.' This means that we are able to track each and every plant from supplier to customer. We are audited annually to ensure that we are following best practices, and also have CFIA (Canadian Food Inspection Agency) to monitor our facility for any disease and/or pests. Our Head Grower must complete regular inspections in order to maintain this certification, and comply with CFIA regulations. I have attached a link for further information on this program.

http://www.cleanplants.ca/Page.asp?PageID=122&ContentID=852

As Natalie mentioned, our Hosta plants are 100% Canadian. The are purchased through a Canadian supplier and are then potted and grown at our facility.

Again, I apologize that we cannot provide you with our supplier information, however I hope that this information will help to answer your question."

Any further comments, anyone?

And Bernd, regarding your losing a couple of plants every year due to the one plant from W-M., I understand what you are saying. That's the problem with even just one virused plant---you just never know if you have unknowingly infected your other plants.

Just purchase plants from suppliers who can confirm their plants are from a wholesaler who has tested them for HVX. Might cost more, but worth it in the long run. Not Walmart or Home Depot.

-Babka

Totally agree with what Babka wrote. Cost more in short term to get from clean suppliers, but the money you save from not having to remove dirty 'bargain' plants from the garden is the key, not to mention that 'Diseased Hosta' bad feeling inside us at first realization we've brought HVX to our gardens.

Simple analogy I guess would be; I'd rather pay 12-14 bucks to a Hallson Gardens (or a Budd's Gardens, or whoever the good retailers may be for you in Canada, NHL) for a 'Stained Glass' I KNOW is clean, rather than 5 bucks for a Wal-Mart or Home Depot 'Stained Glass', because I've (WE HAVE) bought diseased hosta from both those places.

That's all I'm gonna say 'bout that : )

Thank you for the update in your efforts to provide clarity in their sources, New Hosta Lady.

May all our hosta ultimately be virus-free!

Don B.