I have a Canadian Redbud which is now probably 12 ft tall and 15 ft wide, is multi-stemmed, has rather large green leaves and probably will get larger. That might be the one you would be getting from the city. I think I bought it at $30 at a local nursery when it was 6 ft tall.
You should Google for Redbuds, Greer Gardens has a large listing (Cercis Canadensis) . There are reddish leaved ones (Forrest Pansy) which would give you summer interest, and possibly dwarf ones which would fit into your small garden.
Bernd

van wade sold me a half dozen of them for such ...

roots good...

very early spring flower show.. sublime... once it gets fully established ...

and the ONLY down side... is all the seedlings over the years...

but with the heart shaped leaves... they are very easy to ID ...

two thumbs up.. do not credit the downside i mention ...

besides.. the price is right...

ken

Good luck Esther.

I cannot offer a comment on a redbud - I live well beyond its range. In fact I don't think I have ever seen one.

If you're going to get a redbud, this is the one that I would personally get. Two reasons--The Oklahoma Redbud has tough leathery leaves and will take the sun (Redbuds are normally understory trees that grow best in filtered sunlight). AND, the color of the buds is just stunning--a vivid cerise. Some of the other cultivars have bud colors that are kinda' puny.

As an alternative to one large tree, you might consider buying three small trees & plant them together...a foot or so apart.

Here is a link that might be useful: Oklahoma Redbud

I do not know that they will definitely HAVE redbuds at the tree giveaway, but the director of the program said that is one of the species they generally offer. I will take what I can get. I don't know where you found $30 redbuds unless they were 12" tall. The 4-5' ones I saw in the nursery were at least $150-300.

But, what do I shade the hostas with in the meantime, as it will take several years for the tree to get big enough to shade them?

I received a Redbud twig in the mail from the Arbor Day Society about four years ago. I potted the 15" baby and two years later planted it in my main hosta bed. Its over 8' now and should bloom next spring.

Redbuds are great little trees with large heart-shaped leaves which somewhat resemble hosta leaves. The tiny blooms are a purple-pink color which cover the branches on very short stems providing a "Christmas light" effect.

Dougald - expect to see more redbuds in zone 4!

We fell in love with redbuds on our spring break drives to the south... the pink blooms before the leaves emerge make them an amazing early spring sight.

Unfortunately, we live in Minnesota - well north of redbud range.

Fortunately, the University of Minnesota and Minnesota Landscape Arboretum have worked for years to select plants that can survive our artic winters. We planted a redbud last year that came from that breeding program. It grew rapidly, survived the winter, and gave us another good year of growth this year. We are growing it as a single trunked tree.

The only negative we've had is it appears to be quite brittle - we lost one branch to snow weight, and a windstorm snapped a largish branch this summer.

I think we paid about $50 for about a 5' tree.

Esther, I'm thinking of trying this locust tree for fast open partial shade.

hh

They can be very short lived. Our first redbud lasted about 8 years, but it had seeded itself all over, so there are still 3 or 4 descendants in the yard. They grew fast and gave good shade in about 3 years.

The seeding can be a serious drawback if you have a crowded garden like mine. They're easy to pull if you catch them right away, but once they get 6+ inches high, they have to be dug out. I'm forever finding redbud seedlings hiding in the daylilies.

I suspect that conditions other than absolute winter cold (which is all the USDA hardiness zone measures) may limit the range of treees like the redbuds.

I live on the border between the Great Lakes Lowland forest and the Northern Boreal forest. The redbud is a tree from the Carolinian forest to the south.

As an example, a walnut will not spread on its own here but if a walnut is planted, barring a serious first winter problem, it will grow. It may be related to the short growing season or it could include an inability by southern species to withstand the competition of native species.

In any case, the redbud seems like a good choice for Esther in NYC and just maybe as our friends in the northern American midwest say, the redbud will come here as well someday.

As an aside we have had frost already ... just a touch a couple of weeks ago and then last night, more than a touch. So far the hostas, under the cover of shade trees, have escaped but they are living on borrowed time. But the growing season this year ran from late May through Labour Day (just 90 odd frost free days).

I live in redbud country, lol! I probably have 20 of them on this acre, they grow pretty fast and put on quite a show in the spring. They do live quite a long time, I have two that are probably 30-35 yrs old and still going, though they have lost a few limbs over the years. (I have lived here 25 yrs and they were good size when I moved here).

Also have a whitebud (white flowered redbud) that is gorgous in the spring, especially with the mauve flowered ones. We bought that one, I think for about $30. for a 5' tree, about 4 years ago. All the rest of ours are native-sprung-up-from-seed-allowed to grow. They do like some sun, won't bloom very well in the shade of bigger trees and will grow spindly and tall.

Sandy

I just took a (crummy) cell phone picture from my window of the dead plum tree and the overhanging pin oak. The overhanging is more obvious if you are outside looking up, but hopefully you can see what's what in this picture. The overshading by the pin oak dictates an understory tree that can take partial shade. Hence my interest in the pink dogwood and the redbud.

Would a Crepe Myrtle bush or tree work? I planted a bush bare root last year that I ordered from QVC and was amazed at the growth this year and the amount of shade. It will probably grow up to 8 - 10' high. They are easily pruned in the spring to maintain shape and height you wish.

*sigh* I love crepe myrtle. As I understand it, they are difficult to get established in my zone and zones on north, but once they are, they are spectacular. A crepe myrtle would look wonderful in that spot, but I'm not sure if it would do well in a less sunny spot...

Hillbilly, be sure your locust is the thorn-less type. Those locust thorns are wicked.

Deb

redbud grows wild in sw iowa and se nebraska, and prob into mo and kan as well. beautiful spring show, tho short lived.

the ONLY problem I had with it when it was in the font yard is that is prone to get borers, which burrow into the tree and the tree dies. When that happened, I cut it off at the base and let it sucker up. And after a couple years I had a nice tree again.

as ken said, ignore the down side. they are nice trees with no shallow root systems to fight with. And you can get seed pods some years, which are fun to give to day care, church, skuls etc for youth plant care/growing projects.

˘.˘ --~

dave

Dave,

Borer beetles are what I believe killed the purple plum tree in my front yard (see above pic). I hope that they will not transfer their nasty selves to the new tree.

I also have to get my script together as to how to approach the co-op management to have the maintenance guys chop the dead plum tree down to the ground. Wish me luck in that!!

a little digging around the roots by the trunk, a stout chain or tow strap, an SUV with a trailer hitch - wham, gone. wish I lived nearby...

hh

Esther,

That's what Cercis Canadensis "Forest Pansy" is. It's a redbud. Only it's one with purple and green foliage.

Steve

Rosebuds do great in central Iowa, I have just started a root with a dozen shoots from my Moms. I couldn't kill this volunteer, and it was growing somewhere I didn't want it. Year after year it would come back at after I cut it off. So I dug it up and put it out by the road at my house.
I have a couple volunteers Redbudsthat were well along before I started taking care of my Moms place, I have cut them off and rolled boulders onto the spot, they just come up around the rock...
I would definitely advise more than one trunk plants. They do break easy and if they can lean on each other in winds and storms I think they do better.

DDonna, your crape myrtle looks to be a 'Natchez' variety, which is the kind I have planted at my streetside. It has a few branches up as high as the power line now, but I don't think it will cause any problems. I believe they can be 15-20 feet tall under ideal conditions. Do you recall if yours is 'Natchez'? They are white flowering.

Esther, I think a redbud would be a nice choice for your spot. I had one at MoccasinLanding that developed a nice shape to it within 2 maybe 3 years max. I loved the blooms, but then the heart shaped leaves were nice to look at the rest of the season. Mine was a seedling given to me by a friend.

Dogwoods are having a blight or virus of some kind, so I would stay away from them for that reason. All the trees down this way are dying.

Here is a recent picture of my 'Natchez' crape myrtle.
That's it behind the bald cypress tree.

And here is one that I thought was a wild privet, and kept cutting it down.....but now I see the error of my ways, and it is blooming nicely pink, this one doesn't get tall.
Ummmm, uhhhh, those blue bottles are for my bottle tree.

Did I ever tell anyone that I like riesling? :)

I have luck with Korean (or Chinese) Dogwoods (cornus kousa). They do not get affected by blights and any other diseases in my zone 5 gardens. I have 3 white and one pink one. They can grow understory or in sun. One of mine growing in sun needed more watering the first years to get deep roots established, is now a very well blooming (white) tree and right now full of red strawberry like fruits. Has some seedlings, is not suckering. Hostas grow under it. That one is 12 ft tall and 15 ft wide, but I need to cut back vertical branches every few years to keep it low spreading appearance. Bernd

I wonder how fast they grow?

The prices I'm seeing online are reasonable, not anywhere near $500.00. Am I looking at the wrong thing?

The Arbor Day Foundation has seedlings for cheap!
Only 6.98 for members, 10.50 for non-members, for 3'-4' seedlings. I know that's small, but they're practically giving them away.

Lowe's advertizes 3.25 gal pots for $11.49.

Other places have reasonable prices.

Here is a link that might be useful: Redbuds at Arbor Day Foundation

Dougald, you might yet see a living redbud in your area. I grow them here, though we are probably not as cold as you.
I am particularily proud of my redbud. Not sure if it was hardy in this area, I grew it from seed and planted it at the edge of the forest. It has never been watered, and I'm afraid I neglected to weed it. However, today, there is a beautiful small, spring blooming tree there, now about 15' high. It's shape is exquisite. I planted it between 10 and 15 years ago.
On the strenght of my success, I am planting a golden leaf redbud.
As far as prices, redbuds are generally quite inexpensive. We sell blooming sized clumps at our nursery, about 6' tall, for $60.00. Single stem trees are more expensive, but still not prohibitive.
The cultivars and the weeping redbuds are much more expensive.

Thanks steve_mass! Now I need that tree. Oh well, add another one to my list. ; )

Forest Pansy Redbud
Yeates Persimmon
Pawpaw... the list goes on

Moc - My Crepe Myrtle bush is Lagerstroemia indica "Alba" which grows 15 - 20 ft tall and 6 - 8 ft wide. Crepe Myrtles are beautiful and prolific bloomers - and best of all - not messy - and will provide shade in a short amount of time. It grows well in zones 6 - 9.

DD

Hostahillbilly, it is indeed too bad you don't live closer! I have a teeny car powered by rubber bands. I could just see me hitching my car up to the tree with chains and leaving parts of my car in the street...

I don't have any friends who have SUVs either. Just small sensible urban cars. And I do believe the co-op mgt. would get a bit hot under the collar to see the tree, even dead, disappear.

I saw a BEAUTIFUL redbud cultivar, so beautiful I was salivating over the webpage. It's called RISING SUN, but I seriously doubt it will be among the freebies given away by MillionTreesNYC. At best, I'll be getting a regular redbud.

That $500 redbud must have been one of the newer cultivars, and there are some beautiful ones, but I think you will be happy with the "plain ol" species redbud. Sometimes plants with colorful or variegated foliage are greener in shade anyway, as they need all the chlorophyll they can get in those leaves. Your local beneficial insects like pollinators and pest controllers will appreciate your planting a native tree, too.

The redbud is in the legume family, like peas and beans, and I've recently read the pods are edible ... but please check on that before trying them!

Another nice native understory tree is the serviceberry (amelanchier). White flowers in early spring, followed by berries that taste very much like blueberries - just don't count on getting many of them, as they are beloved by birds, squirrels and chipmunks.

The eastern native dogwoods are suffering from dogwood anthracnose, a fungal disease. Meeting the tree's cultural needs and good hygiene are important. While the Asian dogwood c. kousa is less susceptible to the fungus, it is not totally immune. C. kousa blooms later than our native species, which some consider a bonus, but it deprives our native pollen- and nectar-seeking insects of an important food source. C. kousa is also on the watch list for its invasive potential.

Mulch with organic mulch (not stones) around the base of the tree (as you have done) to help stabilize soil moisture and temperature as well as protect from accidental mechanical injury (such as from mowers & string trimmers), water well during the first year or two as the tree is becoming established, then as needed during dry spells.

Redbuds are supposed to be somewhat short-lived (as trees go ... considering some live hundreds of hears), but we planted a little whip from the Arbor Day Foundation over 30 years ago and it's still gracing our front yard.

Since you're in NYC, if you visit the Jersey shore some day, you might want to take a little side trip to Rare Find Nursery in Jackson. Not a fancy looking place, but they have some very interesting plants, know their stuff ... and have a fantastic sale every August-September. They have an online catalog, which I find very useful for reference purposes, and they do ship, although whenever possible I like to pick out plants in person.

Agardenstateofmind: Thanks for all your information (in fact, thank EVERYONE WHO'S POSTED ABOUT THIS), I truly appreciate it.

I don't think that $500 redbud was a fancy cultivar. It had strictly green leaves on it, was about 8 feet tall and did not have extensive horizontal branches. Remember, this is urban NYC and they will charge what they can get for a bit of nature.

I just wish I knew that the management will cooperate in getting rid of the dead tree. They can leave the rest to me, I'll plant that new tree. I will have to move the mini-hostas to make room to plant the new tree. Then I will "have" to move the fenced area outward to make room to re-plant the mini-hostas. Since the "lawn" consists mainly of clover (making it a challenge to water the gardens dodging the bees attracted to the clover flowers) and weeds, losing a bit more of it to my garden would be no great loss to the co-op. If I bump it out a foot and leave out the annuals in that area, I could re-plant the Cracker Crumbs, Yellow Eyes, and High Society in the new 12" of space.

Right now, it's pouring rain. I am very happy about that, as I have not been able to water my garden since Wednesday afternoon, due to religious restrictions from Sukkot. Even though my gardens are well-mulched with shredded bark, the plants in pots had dried out, I could see. I expect to see them all sprung back by morning from all this rain, yay.

hire a tow truck and have them remove it.. bam-done

Even a plain species redbud will grow nicely and look lovely for you, Esther. It will work out with the dead tree. Let your mind work on it and it will disappear.

Haha, Almosthooked. Love the pun. Tow truck. Hooked.

You know, I had a dream last night about AAA. In the dream, I called AAA.

AAA: "Hello, this is Triple-A. How can we help you?"
Me: "I need a tow."
AAA: "Where is your car?"
Me: "In front of my home."
AAA: Where is that?"
Me: "Blah-blah-blah Street."
AAA: "OK, we'll send a truck over right away."

AAAtruck: "Which car needs to get towed?"
Me: "Right over there."
AAAtruck: "But that's a tree."
Me: "That's right. It won't start, I'll have to get towed to get it to the shop."
AAAtruck: "But it's a tree, not a car."
Me: "Really? You know, I THOUGHT the feel of the road was a little stiff! But, it's a great little ride--fantastic mileage and it's got so much room in the trunk!"

i'll have some of what she's having.

such nice dreams compared to mine, which would scare st. king.

my meds give me such heightened nocturnal dramas ...

you could make a sled out of it ... old movie ... citizen sugar cane ... what was its name ... ah yes ... redbud ...

˘. ˘ --~

dave

Ummm, naw, it was "Rosebud".....
But, Bragu, good thought for old movies.

ARE we havin' fun yet? Boy, I hope so!

Bragu, I don't know what kind of meds you are taking, but I hope you can find some more palatable alternatives!

Tonight it's going down to 48 degrees. A real two-cat night. Sweeter dreams, Bragu!

One of my two Eastern Redbuds from Arbor Day.

About 4-5 years old. Originally had three, one didn't make it. They are just starting to get nice buds in the Spring. The problem with these is winter damage from snow. They constantly have branches broken. They are in a pretty much naturalized setting so I keep them. Last winter one was basically broken in half. I'm sure they will continue to gain in size, but I am pessimistic that they will ever avoid the problem of broken branches.

Jon

OK, so it's Monday morning. I call the co-op office to ask them to remove the dead plum tree. Who's gonna do it? The "landscape guys". Those idiots that trample and tear up my little fences and plants which are too close to the border of the beds to avoid being whipped by whirling weedwhackers. I said they are incompetent, but it falls on deaf ears.

I was then admonished NOT to plant a new tree. "We will pick the new tree and plant it," I was told. Yeah, like you put a full-sun tree like the plum tree UNDER an overhanging oak, like that kind of judgment in choosing and planting a tree?

And when would this new tree be planted? My gut instinct says, "The fifteenth of NEVER."

Dreams likely dashed. What a waste.

SInce I needed a little tree to shade a hosta bed, I looked around. My local nursery has a 60-80% off list price, none above $30, sale going on. They have a lot of Japanese maples and magnolias, some standard redbud and had two Cercis Canadensis "Forest Pansy". So I bought those two 'Forest Pansy' redbuds, 6 ft plus, several nice branches, each for $18, and planted them. One is going in a spot next to the back fence, where I just cleaned out brush and two small trees, is a 50x3 ft hosta bed in the making, also has a little dogwood.

Esther, probably some of your local nurseries have sales right now too.
Good luck!
Bernd

Bernd, thanks for the information. Did you read my last post? The imbeciles managing my co-op complex told me they'd have the "landscape workers" (and I've told you that they're just a bunch of illiterate illegal Hispanics who jump off a truck every 2 weeks to wreak havoc on my garden and the lawns here) will examine the tree to make sure it's dead and then remove it. I'm not holding my breath. I was also told NOT to buy and plant a new tree, that the BOARD in their wisdom would select the new tree.

Next thing I expected to hear was that they had land in Florida to sell me.

esther_b quote...' "landscape workers" (and I've told you that they're just a bunch of illiterate illegal Hispanics who jump off a truck every 2 weeks to wreak havoc on my garden and the lawns here)" '

That's a very offensive statement to make. So you are saying that because they are Hispanic they must be illiterate and illegal?
Really inappropriate comment

djwfrk:

Not at all. I actually enjoy working with ESL kids at school, many of them from Hispanic countries.

I have told the "landscape workers" in Spanish (because they speak no English) not to break my garden fences, to no avail. They can't even read Spanish. I am virtually in tears about the latest destruction to the Adirondack fencing around my hosta garden. Several sections are lying on the ground all torn to pieces, like garbage, and the protective foam tubing I placed on top is ripped to shreds by these ignoramuses. It looks like a city dump, thanks to them, at $5-6/section!

They have also knocked down quite a few of my plant markers. I am forever having to retrieve the plant markers from the ground and put them back on their supports. I have spent backbreaking labor and funds for patching compound repairing the really nice faux stone garden edging that they busted ugly holes in.

These guys are knowledgeable landscape workers like I'm six feet tall (I am, in fact, 5'2"). They do not seem to have much knowledge about gardening at all, just how to flail about with weed-whackers and blowers. Their mowing is laughable. Also, I see a different crew each time.

There are places in this area where it is well known that illegals congregate to pick up day labor jobs. Many contractors, like landscape companies, go over in the morning to these places to pick up workers for the day. The illegals are happy to work for minimum pay because they are limited in what jobs they can obtain. So the quality of work is about on a par with absolute amateurs, because in effect, that's exactly what they are.

And the co-op couldn't care less. They are penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to landscaping. They could care less if my fencing gets ripped up, plants get trampled, etc.

Here is an article from a local Queens news source:

Day laborers busted on 69th Street

The police arrested 10 immigrants on Tuesday on charges that they blocked a sidewalk at a popular gathering place for day laborers in Jackson Heights, Queens, the chief spokesman of the Police Department said.

The arrests came in response to repeated calls from neighborhood residents complaining about the laborers "most of them undocumented" who congregate every day at the intersection of Broadway, 37th Avenue and 69th Street, said the spokesman, Paul J. Browne.

“Police responded to community complaints about them blocking the sidewalk and congregating,” Mr. Browne said, adding that there were 50 to 60 workers at the location on Tuesday morning before the arrests.

“We responded and asked them to disperse,” Mr. Brown said. “All but 10 of them did.”
_______________________
There is little doubt, based on what I've seen and my conversations with them, that these "landscape workers" are undocumented aliens. So, I have spent endless hours researching, planning, buying materials, digging, hauling heavy bags of soil and mulch, planting, watering, weeding, etc. so that these "landscape workers" can come and lay waste to all my efforts. I'm sure you would love them, too, if you could but see the latest damage. Life in the big city.

Ester, sorry that is not easy to live and garden where you do. For me it was easy to let my credit card pay for the trees, and then I had a need in my garden and just planted them. Bernd

Thanks, Bernd. You have all "lived" through my various researching and planting, so you know how much mega-effort I have put into my little but proud patches of green. And how much they mean to me.

Like any gardener, my eye is sorely offended by the Adirondack fence destruction and disarray and the patched holes in my faux stone fencing. Looking at the dead plum tree and having my hands tied by the uber-ignorant co-op management in getting a new tree (FREE!) to replace it is like a slap to my face. They are not science people; they certainly have no artistic eye, and clearly they do not grasp the concept of understory trees being the tree of choice if there are overhanging large trees there. But they insist that only THEY can choose a new tree and plant it.

Really, how disgusted would you be?

Bernd,

Nice haul. I bet you can't wait for them to mature into specimens as nice as Steve's pictures. I don't know if limb breakage is common with Redbuds, but you should have better luck than me in your milder zone.

I am going to try and make it a point to go out and shake off the snow during heavy storms.

Jon

How about this idea? I am sort of a never-say-never person. There are all these gorgeous glazed ceramic pots on sale now, 50% off at my local favorite nursery. What if I bought a very large one and then went to the tree give-a-way anyway? You are not supposed to put the give-a-way trees in pots, but...what if I at least got the crummy co-op management to remove the old tree and then put a POTTED redbud tree where I'd rather have it planted? I was told, "You cannot plant a tree there", but if I put a POTTED redbud there, at least it would grow a few years and give my hostas shade. Then, when the co-op Keystone Cop squad sees how beautiful the tree is, do you think they might cave and allow it to be transplanted from the pot to the ground?

What do you guys think of this idea? How big a pot would I need for a 5' tree?

(I just don't trust them as far as I could throw them to actually plant a tree, since the "scuttlebutt" around the complex is, they're not planting any replacement trees.)