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H. 'Venus' looking weird

Posted by moccasinlanding z9A AL (My Page) on
Tue, Sep 25, 12 at 2:22

Here is the first picture I took of it with this strange leaf pattern.

I have the HVX test strips but I'm thinking this is more like maybe a mosaic virus? Or am I being hyper.

I have these fresh off my camera and not loaded on Flickr yet, but wanted to see what replies might be up after breakfast in the morning. I can always trash it, but want to know the scoop if I might cure it.

Thanks for your help.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

The second photo


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

And the last one.

Are these good enough to identify anything?


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

It's clearly a virus, but not sure which one. You'd have to test it to be sure. Regardless you should toss it, plant, pot and soil, in the trash. Where did you get it?

Steve


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Steve is correct. It does not matter what virus it is the end result is the same. Since it is in a pot then disposal is easy and the pot can easily be sanitized and reused.

The big difference in virus is that non-HVX virus can be spread by insects. I would suggest an insect spray would be a good precaution.

A positive HVX test would eliminate transmission by insects as this would be impossible. This is the only and very limited value of HVX testing for the homeowner. If the hosta is planted in soil then I would spray the area to prevent non-HVX transmission by insects and then kill the hosta with glyphosate and remove any crown and root remains in the Spring. If it is HVX then you could eliminate the spraying...not a big deal, in my opinion.

Myself, I would not spend the money on test strips as they have no real value in my mind. If the test is positive then the treatment is kill the hosta, wait and replant. If the HVX is negative the treatment is spray to prevent insect transfer, then kill and wait. I would simply treat any identifiable virus the same way. Spray, kill and wait. If its in a pot then spray, dispose of it and sterilize the pot.

Jon


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Steve, I admire your knowledge of what infects our dear hostas. I hope you will indulge me a bit.

This past spring when I had nothing I could do about my 'HOSTALOVE" but sit at my computer I looked for everything I could find on things that effect hosta leaves and made myself a photo-file I call my "BUG-FILE". One of the sub-files is viruses (not sure if that is the proper plural word-please enlighten me!) which contains folders of photos of infected leaves by the various known viruses. My intent was not to be able to visually identify a specific virus. I realize that is probably impossible. My intent was simply to be able identify a hosta as virused. Or nematode infested, Or a chlorosis affected, etc. etc.!

I feel my efforts were well worth it.

moc - you've been given really good advice. Confirmed by my "BUG-FILE" I could only suggest which it could be, like Steve has. But knowing which isn't important. Pitch it.

If other peeps haven't done the "BUG-FILE" thing I strongly recommend you doing it for quick reference. Winter time with little to do while snow in piling up outdoors is a great time to do it. Hosta catalogues are nice but a "BUG-FILE" has greater value.

Les


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

The Hosta Society has pictuures of the various viruses. It is not easy to distinguish between viruses. In my opinion it doesn't really matter. The treatment of any virus can be the same and all viruses are terminal, even though HVX can take a long time.

Jon

Here is a link that might be useful: Hosta Society, pics of various viruses


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Mocassin,

My guess is Tobacco Ringspot Virus comparing it to the Hosta Society photos.

Jon


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Okay, all, I knew there would be an answer by breakfast time!
Thank you.

This plant I did isolate near the compost pile because it has been suspect for several weeks now. The leaf changes showed up after I moved it into a lot of sun.

It came from Made In The Shade. I got it this spring. I abbreviate their name on my tags as MITS or M-I-T-S.

Thank goodness for you guys! It is going into the garbage bin, pot and all, ASAP.

Question though....should I run a HVX test on it first?


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Moccasin,

Save that pot. Simply scrubbing it with Dawn dishwashing liquid will kill any virus. A run through the dishwasher would do the same.

Jon


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Hey Moc, can you take a picture of the underside of the infected leaf before destroying. I'd be interested to see what it looks like.

Wonder how long this plant has been infected....

Thanks,

Gesila


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Sure, Gesila. And, I will be happy to give Les rights to adding it to his collection of photos.

As far as when it was infected, I could not say. The leaves began to look "different" or weird after I'd moved my fragrant hosta into a lot more sun, including all afternoon until about 5pm. I suppose it was the entire month of August and September as well. When I began noticing this one being different, I isolated it from other hosta, so that if wind or rain blew things around, it would not splash or touch any other hosta in my quarantine area.

I have a couple of plants with skeletal leaves, such as Brenda's Beauty, don't know what eats the leaves and lets the veins and perimeter of the leaf remain, do you? But that is part of the quarantined area. Then, the two plantaginea from earlier this year which I bleach soaked for foliar nems, and they are looking great, also in the same amount of sunshine as Venus, and they have only perfect gorgeous small-sized leaves appropriate to a new-growth plant.

I'll have to go back and study the earlier photos of Venus to see if there was any early indication of this problem. Not being familiar with a flourishing Venus with NO PROBLEMS, I missed any of those early signs, should there have been any. It took a lot of sun to reveal the markings, but whether it led to the condition, or just let it show, have no clue.

But so far, I see no others in similar dire straits.


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

The timeline of Venus in photos.

April 2012
Hosta12Apr301

May 2012
Hosta 'Venus'

June 2012, Venus is on the back row, 2nd from left, next to the tall Fragrant Blue Ribbons.
Hosta12June356

July 2012
Hosta12July031

August 2012
Here I'm getting a closer shot of it, because there is a leaf which seems to be curling or rippling that is different. It has been in more sun for about a week here.
H. 'Venus'

Now.
From this photo record, is there any sign of the problem showing up or was it always present? I cannot tell. The leaves became lighter colored with more sun, and it revealed the issue, seems to me. Looks sort of like a water damaged book with stains appearing as it dries.


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

I would send a picture to Rob (MITS) and see what he thinks.


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

One of the sub-files is viruses (not sure if that is the proper plural word-please enlighten me!)

Les, yes indeed, that is the correct plural form, although I must admit I have also seen viri being used - incorrectly.

Pieter

Here is a link that might be useful: Wikipedia - Virus


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

BJ,

Josh is right. Rob Mortko will want to see those pictures and know about this plant.

Steve


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

After reading Josh' post, I sent a link to this thread to Rob. The photos are better organized here than they would be in an email, and he can see what the story is, and hopefully he has some info to add to the discussion....although it is not a hopeful situation.


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Have you heard back from him?

Deanna


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Oh yes. We are corresponding now.

I will be shipping Venus back to him so analysis can be done on what ails it. I think the interests of the forum will be served better if he, with his better knowledge, brings the results here. I do not like to quote from personal emails without the approval of the writer, but with his knowledge I may do so later on.

A full battery of tests will be run. Let's hope it is some problem I can pronounce.

Next spring I'll be ordering from Made In The Shade again, since their plants look good and are checked for HVX and who knows what else. And yes, he is replacing that Venus next year, and I'm ordering an additional one. I love the plantaginea family, and it is hard to find Venus. It grew very well for me this year, as you can see from the timeline of photos.

Could it be an issue with my garden that led to the disease in this Venus? Yes, it is possible. After all, who knows what my extreme climate turns loose on hosta.


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Barbara suggested I post my response to her rather than paraphrasing. Sorry if it's a tad long.
-----------------------------
Hi Barbara Jo,

Thanks for the opportunity to respond.

I would agree with you that �Venus� is looking "weird". As others mentioned, without any testing it really is impossible to say much with any certainty. But before I say anything why don�t you simply mail the plant back to me. I can credit your account, send you a refund, or replace the plant next spring since I ran a batch of �Venus� through my own TC lab. Life is too short for you to worry about this and you will likely second guess yourself if you simply destroy the plant.

We routinely run hosta samples thru Agdia for the entire battery of hosta virus testing. We do this as a normal matter of course with our TC lab. The Agdia testing includes: Arabis Mosaic Virus, Cucumber Mosaic Virus, Hosta Virus X, Impatiens Necrotic Spot Virus, Tomato Ringspot Virus, Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus and Tobacco Rattle Virus. These represent the full spectrum of viruses known to infect hosta. Of these 7 viruses, only HVX is hosta specific (as far as we know) and is only spread by mechanical means. HVX is not spread by insect vectors (again as far as we know). The other viruses are non hosta specific and spread by insect vectors (thrips, nematodes, etc).

I can isolate your plant and have it tested next time we send some samples to Agdia. So why would I bother? A couple of reasons. We put our reputation on the line with every hosta we sell. We take all customer feedback seriously. No grower is perfect, but we work very hard to ensure our plants are virus and nematode free. We only offer plants that have come thru tissue culture and have been virus indexed. For older plants that are no longer available at the wholesale level we started our own TC lab. If we ever do have a problem I want to know about it and proactively deal with it.

The second reason is based on knowing the actual history of the batch of �Venus� that you obtained. Every grower should be able to explain to their customers in some detail where their hosta stock comes from. We preach this to all of our American Hosta Growers Association members. The reason why �Venus� is hard to find is that it has only been available to growers as bare root stock from Holland. We stopped dealing with the Dutch growers about 10 years ago when the HVX thing hit the fan. As a result we had not offered �Venus� in a number of years. However we had been growing a TC liner batch of plantaginea �Aphrodite� from Q&Z Nursery. They are one of the few TC labs that we deal with since Mark Zilis is adamant about virus indexing anything that goes into his lab. In any event we noticed that one plant that had sported to �Venus� as we counted over 30 petals when it bloomed one year. We continued to grow that plant in the greenhouse, divided it late last year, and offered a few for sale this spring. The parent plant was virus indexed and never showed any symptoms that would have concerned us (and we do watch them carefully).

The other thing that caught my attention was that you moved the plant to a full sun situation during the middle of the summer. Even with a heat tolerant fragrant flowering cultivar, that would tend to burn the older foliage that had already been set in shadier conditions. Maybe it was a coincidence that this was about the same time that you noticed the "weird" foliage, or maybe it wasn�t a coincidence. We also see a lot of foliage that is "weird" looking this time of year as the plant is shutting down in response to shorter days and cooler temps. This time of year it is very difficult to visually analyze much of anything with hostas given everything else that is going on in the plant. This has been further reinforced in working closely with Dr. Ben Lockhart at the University of Minnesota on the current AHS sponsored HHX research.

Sorry for the long winded answer, but I have a hunch this could be a good teachable moment for both hosta gardeners and hosta growers alike. When I test the plant I will also test the plants we produced from TC since they came from the same mother plant. If they both come back clean, the answer will be clear. If they are both virused the answer will also be clear. If your plant has a virus and the TC plants are clean, we will know that the viral infection took place in your garden sometime this year.

Hosta'ly,
Rob Mortko
Made in the Shade Gardens
16370 W. 138th Terr
Olathe, KS 66062

913-206-6939

www.HostaGuy.com


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

After reading this I would buy from MITS. Compliments to Rob Mortko and his company.


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

  • Posted by babka 9b NorCal (My Page) on
    Sat, Sep 29, 12 at 14:04

What a pleasure to read the reply from Rob at Made in the Shade Gardens. I will add his company to my "Most Trusted Hosta Dealers" list.

-Babka (a future customer). ;-)


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

My follow-up response to Barbara Jo:
-----------------------------------
Hi Barbara Jo,

You probably though I had forgot about your Hosta ‘Venus’ and the virus testing.

We just had 17 plants tested by Agdia. Most of these were plants that we are putting into tissue culture. However I also had your Hosta ‘Venus’ tested. Your plant was a division from a clump that originated from a Q&Z tissue culture plug. It was originally labeled ‘Aphrodite’. However after growing it for a number of years and seeing it bloom, it was clear that it was actually ‘Venus’ as it had 30+ petals. Lacking a good source of ‘Venus’ stock we used this same clump to initiate ‘Venus’ in our own TC lab. And so I also had a plant from our own TC run of ‘Venus’ tested by Agdia. If a virus were present in the original clump it would have been passed on to any resulting TC plants. The results are quite interesting.

Just in the last year Agdia has added an additional virus test to their standard hosta screen. Based on a documented confirmed positive of Tobacco Streak Virus (TSV) on a hosta they now routinely test for TSV. The TSV virus itself is not new. We just never tested hostas for it since we did not know that they were affected by it.

Your plant tested negative for: Arabis mosaic virus, Cucumber mosaic virus, Hosta Virus X, Impatiens necrotic sport virus, Tomato ringspot virus, Tomato spotted wilt virus and Tobacco rattle virus. However it tested positive for Tobacco streak virus. Interestingly the ‘Venus’ tissue cultured plant from our lab tested negative for all 8 viruses.

The TSV virus is spread by insect vectors most notably thrips. Most likely you have a source of TSV in or near your gardens which was spread by thrips.

I am attaching a brochure that was recently prepared by Agdia regarding TSV and hostas. It doesn’t contain a whole lot of info on TSV, but it does include a photo that is useful.

Hosta'ly,
Rob Mortko
Made in the Shade Gardens
16370 W. 138th Terr
Olathe, KS 66062

913-206-6939

www.HostaGuy.com


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Rob, I thank you VERY much!

The 'Venus' was the first for it to strike in my garden, and it alarmed me as you know. This year, I had three other fragrant hosta which emerged fine, but when it became hot, they started showing some kind of mosaic pattern, and I immediately got rid of them and their containers. No further infection has been observed. The other NONfragrant hosta from that nursery remain together separate from all other hosta...just those three fragrant hosta were NOT okay, everything else is doing fabulously.. And insect? which likes fragrant leaves?

It is pretty hard growing hosta this far south, not because of the weakness of the hosta themselves.....but because of the additional disease and conditions that come with the territory. Things that are not present to as great an extent further north. I never thought of it that way until my dear husband began his vegetable garden here for the first time.....he has always gardened in New England.....and he could not believe the things that attack his plants routinely here in Mobile. The climate is semitropical, fecund, full of quick growing plants, and diseases. Insect borne is a big area to cover, and we sure do have insects! I try to use as little poison as I can, putting up with holes in leaves---but now I worry about what is bringing the virus to our paradise? It could be striking other plants too.

Thank you for taking the trouble to include 'Venus' in the round of testing. It is good to know what the problem was, and proceed to find the "Typhoid Mary" for TSV


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

10 years ago I received a group of hostas from a US hosta seller that also showed this same type of virus pattern about a month after they emerged (they were shipped dormant). I sent a sample to the Univ. of Minnesota plant disease clinic and asked them to check for all viruses by electron microscopy. It was only $25 at the time, I think it is $50 now, and it was confirmed to be a virus but Dr. Lockhart said he was not able to identify which virus it was as it was something he hadn't seen in hostas before. Over the years there have been 3 or 4 other viruses he's found in hostas but could not readily identify, including in one of those "not virus infected" examples people keep. So for anyone wanting to screen for any and all viruses I think electron microscopy would be the way to go rather than Elisa testing. Cost should be less too, so that might be something to think about, Rob.


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Interesting info on the TSV. Thanks to all who have contributed info and to Moccassin for posting her info. Hoping she can find the Typhoid Mary in her garden!

As I read the info on the sheet Rob provided, found it interesting that TSV can be spread by pollen and seed.

A few years ago I purchased seed. As one of the seedlings started emerging it just has a strange look and much like HVX. I tested and it was negative. Kept the seedling isolated from other seedlings when watering. Tossed the seedling as I didnt like how it looked. Wondering if it had TSV?

Hoping Rob you dont mind that I share the info on TSV on a few of the Hosta Seed Growing forums that I belong to.

Chris do you have a photo of the hostas with the virus that had not been seen before?


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Hi Trudy,

This is a picture of the hosta taken in 2004. Amazing how similar the symptoms are. The plant is Gilt By Association.

And unfortunately there are several virus that will carry over in seed and pollen.


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RE: H. 'Venus' looking weird

Thanks Chris for posting the photo of an unidentified virus.

The leaves sure do have a virus look to them.

I know there are folks out there who keep a hosta that looks virused, after reading how easily the viruses are spread by thrips, pollen and seed its kind of alarming to see others keep these plants.

Chris or Rob what is thinking on bees spreading pollen with virus's?

Wanted to say thanks to Rob and Chris for being advocates and indexing your stock that you sell for viruses!


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