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Q&Z Nursery Going Out of Business

TheHostaCottage
9 years ago

Hi all,
Just in case you haven't heard the bad news, I thought I'd share it here....

This message is on the Q&Z website (when you sign in) and some have received it via email.

"Dear Valued Customers:
Q & Z Nursery has decided to cease operations this Fall. It has been a great pleasure to serve you over the last 22 years. We've enjoyed getting to know so many dedicated nursery people across North America and beyond. Our dream to create new, unique, and improved hosta cultivars could not have been achieved without your business. The future of hostas still looks bright. The potential for the development of exciting new cultivars in the genus Hosta is there.
Carpe diem!
Thank you for being part of our world!
Sincerely,
Mark R. Zilis
President, Q & Z Nursery, Inc."

Vanessa

Comments (40)

  • User
    9 years ago

    I am stunned.
    I cannot wrap my brain around that one. I'm sure there will be a back story to the closing, and I hope it is not an unhappy one.
    God bless them all.

  • garyz6ohio
    9 years ago

    Ouch! Now that's scary.

  • mstrecke
    9 years ago

    Wow.

    I am stunned.

    Hopefully it is in pursuit of new and exciting ventures.

    Margaret

  • mountainy man z8 Ireland
    9 years ago

    That is very sad to hear, they have contributed a lot to the hostaverse and have left us all a huge legacy of new hostas.

    Denis

  • ctopher_mi
    9 years ago

    I'm stunned too. First Shady Oaks went out of business and closed down for good in early July and now Q & Z. That doesn't leave too many reliable, trusted sources for liners any longer and if Walters Gardens doesn't start producing more reliable, healthier plants I don't know where I'll be getting new stock from. This could be a big hit to a lot of small businesses who relied on the plants from Shady Oaks and Q & Z.

    Yikes.

  • MadPlanter1 zone 5
    9 years ago

    Very sad. I've gotten my Q & Z plants indirectly, through In the Country and the hosta guy in Kansas. I hope it's because Mark wants to enjoy retirement and travel and not for bad reasons.

  • mountainy man z8 Ireland
    9 years ago

    From AHS facebook page:

    "Kathy Guest Shadrack- It is true. Mark Zilis warned Mike at the Peter Ruh Lifetime Achievement presentation that he was shutting down ... too much competition from labs overseas and cannot make a living on the tiny margins he is workiing with. Also, the banks have become more problematic. He is going to go into some kind of business with his son."

    Denis

  • bragu_DSM 5
    9 years ago

    My final (sniff) Q&Z order has been placed.
    Liners all:

    this is so sad.

    I used to look forward to driving over there, with the greenhouse plunked out in the middle of an old forty of either corn or soybeans, and then shopping the liner tents.

    dave

    This post was edited by bragu on Sat, Sep 13, 14 at 17:05

  • in ny zone5
    9 years ago

    Is that competition from Europe? Those guys in Netherlands and Belgium are not working for low wages either. Or is the competition from Asia? I am always wondering how these plant imports make it through customs.
    Bernd

  • User
    9 years ago

    Bragu, YOU FOUND CHEROKEE?
    Oh WOW, I've wanted that one as long as I've grown hostas! I heard Van Wade sent it off for TC and it must have been to Q&Z, and now they are selling it?

    WHOOOOPEEEEEE....
    Okay, that settles it, I have to place an order RIGHT AWAY.
    But, I've never known how to order from them. Can someone get me pointed in the right direction? I'll CALL them. That is the best way, personal contact, and tell them how much they will be missed.

  • User
    9 years ago

    Berndny when they are not "inspecting" any foodstuff entering the country from some other foreign countries, what chances are a foreign grower of some ornamental plants will be inspected?

    I say that bitterly, but it is so true. Pigs/chickens/whatever grown here will be shipped to China I believe, and slaughtered there in terrible conditions without health safeguards, and then it will be shipped back ready for the consumer...and no inspection. So what do you bet?
    Sad to see it hit names we depend on.

  • gardenfanatic2003
    9 years ago

    Wow... that's sad.

    Deanna

  • Steve Massachusetts
    9 years ago

    This is really bad news. It leaves Walters as the only source in the US for TC that is not associated with a retail nursery. I believe that Naylor Creek and Made in the Shade do some or all of their own TC. Otherwise all the other sources for TC are overseas and really not reliable.

    Time for Hallsons to do their own TC?

    Steve

  • Josh Spece
    9 years ago

    I question how much this had to do with overseas TC or competition of any kind. Should have been just the opposite, with their major competitor (Shady Oaks) gone. I think their practice of introducing every green/blue/gold sport they found finally caught up with them.

    Just my opinion and observations, as one of their customers for the last 16 years. Certainly has been enormous loss in the hosta world this year. The hosta industry is changing rapidly. The over all downward trend of retail prices is not sustainable for the industry! The foundation of the hosta landscape as we know it is seriously broken.

  • mac48025 ( SE michigan)
    9 years ago

    Unfortunately the retail nursery business is now driven by the big box stores causing the decline of the smaller garden centers just like they've done to the hardware stores. With their "scan and pay" purchasing and emphasis on low cost over plant quality it is driving profit margins on plants so low that many are going to come to the same conclusion as Shady Oaks and Q&Z.....that it's just not worth trying to compete with the high volume, low margin suppliers. Hopefully enough quality hosta growers will survive with a lower volume, higher profit strategy to fulfill our hosta needs. I'm certainly willing to pay more for quality plants and I imagine most here are also.

    If you think this is bad news for us gardeners just think how one of my wholesale growers that has over 15,000 hostas on order from Q&Z next year feels! Here's just one of her hosta blocks.

  • woodthrush
    9 years ago

    I'm sure it wasn't a decision made lightly. They will be greatly missed in the hosta world. I don't think it's our place to question his reasons. Personally, I think shipping costs will be the demise of small mail order business. I know I've cancelled many a shopping cart when I saw how much the shipping charges were.

  • allnitro
    9 years ago

    Naylor Creek buys most all of their plants and most come from overseas from folks like Jan van den Top and Marco Fransen. And they have those overseas guys produce their own intros.

    So when I read how horrible the euro grown plants are, I have to laugh. They do of course buy from the US labs....the ones that every one else has. As you go through their catalog, you can tell what comes from where.

    With two major US suppliers now gone there is a void that could be filled by some enterprising folks. Like Josh pointed out they would be better off producing more unique plants and not all of the TC culls that end up getting named and offered like they are the next best thing.....ones many of you have in your collections.

    As a seed grower I am more interested in seeing more plants introduced for sale that come from seed origins rather than sports of old over produced plants like the norm is now, just look at the popularity lists almost all of them are sports with a very small number that are actual seedlings. jmho

  • hostasmith
    9 years ago

    Looks like it is time to teach myself how to TC!

  • garyz6ohio
    9 years ago

    Hey Moc, I just noticed that Jim's Hostas are offering Cherokee on the Hosta Auction page.

  • hostaaddict42
    9 years ago

    Other than Walter's are there any non retail growers that sell wholesale? Looks like we'll all be buying or selling the same couple of hundred Hosta's year in and year out. Huge loss. Q & Z will be missed.

  • BungalowMonkeys
    9 years ago

    I'm curious, how many of you on here sell hostas?

  • brucebanyaihsta
    9 years ago

    I used to both wholesale and retail - stopped in 2001!

    Bruce

  • mac48025 ( SE michigan)
    9 years ago

    While I don't sell hosta's I buy them wholesale and retail and know quite a few hosta growers/sellers and unfortunately many have gotten out of the business due to low profit margins on hosta's. Many have blamed the big box stores and the large retail garden center chains that buy solely on price but I think it's more than that. It seems like business nationwide is going away from the small mom & pop businesses towards the giant corporate companies. Hopefully the market will appreciate the value of having smaller, dedicated growers and be willing to pay more for their services.

  • hostaaddict42
    9 years ago

    Look, many people go to big boxes for everything not just plants. Here's the reason most nurseries suck. Boring, dull selection. Same stuff year in year out. Purple coneflowers, black eyed susan's, green hosta, green with white variegation hosta, blah blah blah.
    Low profit margins at retail. Are you kidding me? Sell a Sum and Substance with one eye in a one gallon pot for $ 15. Crazy margin. If they bought liners and took the 10 minutes to pot them then that equals killer profit. Most retailers need to spend a few grand on liners (various plants not just hosta) and grow them for a season. Maybe divide them (more $$$ in their pocket).
    Most people I speak with day in and day out say the same thing: they want and need more variety at retail.
    While they are at it why don't nurseries grow what they sell as a display so that people can actually see what the plant will look like in 3 years.
    How about having a few people that LOVE plants on staff? How about cleaning up the retail yard? Make the place comfortable. Get the plants at waist level. Just my 2 cents.

  • bkay2000
    9 years ago

    Yes, my local (former) favorite nursery was bringing in starts from Walters and growing them out. They also bought locally from Green Lake, the HVX source. I told them about the HVX, they bought from them anyway. They had an HVX infected hosta. I won't be back.

    I can buy hosta for $5.95 from the big box stores. If I'm going to pay $12.95 for a small, quality hosta, I expect a hosta without HVX. I also don't want to see HVX in that nursery.

    And, to keep on that rant, why don't they check to see what does well here? Can you believe someone bought Great Expectations for Dallas? How about Brim Cup? For Dallas?

    Don't they research anything?

    JMO

    bk

  • markconifershostas
    9 years ago

    The golden days of horticulture are over. The climax was in the sixties and seventies, when any production nurseries with a suitable site turned to retail. Those of us without the right site were then able to make a decent living supplying those independent retailers. Gradually the chains started to develop, and from the eighties onwards expanded rapidly. Lets face it, if you have worked hard and built up a business, and get towards retirement age, and Mr Chain comes along and offers you a few million, who are you to refuse, unless your business is very successful and there are other family members making a good living from it too.
    To compound this, the plant market, at least in the UK, is shrinking fast. Younger people just aren't interested. The chances are that even if they can afford a place with a garden, it is likely to be small, and all they really want is a place to down a few drinks on a pleasant evening. But plants, they need looking after, and people just can't be bothered after a long day's work.
    Unfortunately I'm not allowed to blow my own trumpet for my own plants on here too loudly, but there are good sources of virus free Hostas out there, and people in Europe apart from the obvious working on TC

  • hostaaddict42
    9 years ago

    That's my point...a small quality hosta for double/triple big box stores? Leave growing for another year pot them up into 2 gallon size then price them for the same $ 12.95! Give the customer more bang for the buck!
    I agree that the "younger" generation might not be "into gardening" but when I was in my 20's and early 30's I just wasn't interested. It all started with one plant and I was hooked. One thing that no retailer in any industry can change is how fast paced life is (work, running kids everywhere, more work, answering emails on the day off, etc.) and how most people don't have time to garden. People are too distracted.
    That being said I have yet to see any house, unless is was abandoned, not have some form off plants in the yard.
    One last thing most landscaping "pros" have no clue how many different varieties of ANY plant are available. Garden clubs, landscape architects, and quality landscapers need to be contacted by resellers and and sold on selling better and different varieties. Educate, Educate, Educate. Its amazing how many nurseries don't have a clue that there are sedum other than Autumn Joy, crazy colored coneflowers, kick ass sports of hosta, etc. Pathetic.

  • hostaaddict42
    9 years ago

    I would also like to say thank you to Q and Z Nursrey. Straight shooters, great plants, and super easy to do business with. Mark is a God in the Hosta world. Please buy his latest book and get the Hostapedia. Both amazing books. It's like he was putting his life's work on paper so that we can learn and grow with all the knowledge he's passed along. They will be missed. Every employee I dealt with was great, no bs. I will miss having them as my primary source of hosta. I don't think it will hit us until next year when no more Q and Z catalogs stop coming in the mail. Glad I kept them as a resource. THANK YOU for all you've done for the horticulture industry!!!!!!

  • markconifershostas
    9 years ago

    You are right there, about the lack of knowledge in the industry. There are very few young, skilled people coming into it, and that is probably on an international scale. A lot of the decent horticulturists I know are beyond retirement age, but still keep at it as they enjoy it, and there is nobody to replace them. In the UK most retailers are now chains, and all buy from the same few big suppliers, and their managers are shelf stackers, with little and often no authority to decide on what is stocked in their centre or to buy things in for customers. In the olden days most of retail plant managers had done the hard miles on nurseries when they were younger, but how many people out there now can handle a spade, hessian squares, a budding knife, the secateurs or tying raffia, at commercial speed and and craftsman levels of skill? Landscapers aren't much better, they can handle a trowel and two stroke tools, but their knowledge beyond the most basic plants seems to be almost non existent.
    Anyway, back to Hostas, virtually every garden centre in the UK has got HVX on it's plant area. The big nurseries just buy bare root plants in from Holland in the winter, pot them up and move them on. Nobody in the supply chains cares really, as long as they make their margin. To grow anything properly and anything interesting takes knowledge and skill. To supply something old hat, diseased and often wrongly labelled takes little skill, but so long as the money comes in it doesn't matter. In fact it doesn't matter if the plants don't make money, the restaurant surely will!

  • woodthrush
    9 years ago

    People today want instant gratification. They want large plants to start with, not wait 5-7 years for a plant to mature. And wholesalers can't be bothered buying small starts and potting them up and waiting a year or two to have good-sized stock. Imagine the overhead that would be involved.
    I really think we're seeing the end of an era here.

  • markconifershostas
    9 years ago

    It is some and some with regard to the size of plants, some people like to start small, but a lot of people do want instant impact. And some varieties of course are always small! That is a specialist market though, people won't pay for them in the average retail centre. There is a shortage of large Hostas in the trade, and a big percentage of them that I see for sale are virused. I'm trying to increase our own stock of larger plants, and it is worth it, but you can' magic quantities of your own clean stock overnight.

  • dougald_gw
    9 years ago

    I too regret that Mark is leaving the business - we will all miss his efforts whether we bought from him directly or not.

    In this thread there is much lamenting the current state of horticulture and the changing retail scene. In the Ottawa area, there has always been (at least in my memory of the 40 years I have been a homeowner) the equivalent of big box stores in the seasonal activities of large grocery stores as well as other retailers.

    And the local small nurseries have come and gone on a regular basis over that time no doubt some adversely affected by the discount seasonal outlets. In truth, the nursery business here is always seasonal given the long cold winter.

    I have noticed that the larger local nurseries that have survived over the years (I would say done well but I have no idea of their balance sheet) all have a staff that includes at least one or two people with university degrees as horticulturalists or arborists. They give a load of free advice to anyone who asks.

    We are blessed in the Ottawa Valley to have a number of hosta retailers who are knowledgeable and of long standing. There seems to be a niche for a quality provider in the nursery world - from hostas to peonies to ornamental shrubs - the big box stores are not able (yet) to kill that sector. Advice, quality plants, and unusual varieties for amateur gardeners and landscapers seem to be enough to keep a customer base intact.

    Doug

  • josephines167 z5 ON Canada
    9 years ago

    Carpe Diem - meaning literally "seize the day." The full text from Horace's Odes is carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero or "enjoy today, trusting little in tomorrow."

    "Carpe Diem" is what Mark quoted and what stuck with me more than anything else he wrote. There is a message in those two words.....open to our own interpretation. Only two words but the impact is there. IMO

    Google the words ... among the hits you will also find a 3-minute YouTube video with Robin Williams if you have time and are inclined....a great movie btw if you haven't seen it yet.

    I feel for the employees of Q & Z and wish them all the best.

    I feel loss for those of you who have had a brief or long-standing relationship with this company as their hosta provider.

    After 22 years in the business (a demanding one at that) I would imagine one would eventually want to retire and enjoy the spoils of success while one can.

    ***This forum, I feel, has been and will continue to be, a powerful resource to all gardeners interested in hosta....especially to vendors of hosta.***.

    Who is going to pick up on an opportunity here??? Carpe Diem.

    Jo

  • ctopher_mi
    9 years ago

    With Shady Oaks gone and now Q & Z very soon to be gone I think it could open up an opportunity for other labs to branch into the specialty hosta market, but it also might scare them away from it. If anyone picks up the pieces I hope they get someone knowledgeable about not only hostas but the retail industry too, so they pick plants to produce that will grow well, sell well, and have market appeal for both the collector as well as the average gardener.

  • User
    9 years ago

    I'm sure if such a person decides to pick up the pieces, he should "debrief" Mark Zilis, and get his opinion of what happened to the business.

    I have no idea how hostas enter the TC process. For instance, take Cherokee, a fragrant developed by Van Wade which was one of the first hosta I wanted, and kept trying to buy, until Mr. Wade told me it was going into tissue culture.

    Okay, I thought it was his choice to enter it for tissue culture. Don't know where it was sent, but now believe it was to Q&Z since it is listed on their AVAILABLE list. So, my question is, were THEY the ones who asked Van Wade to submit it for TC, or did Van Wade contract with them to do it? And, how do the TC plants get disseminated to the trade?

    If from the TC firm, then that seems to be a problem. I'd say it should be the nursery not the TC operation. Perhaps that will become a function that stable nurseries will handle in house or locally. See, my understanding of the volume and the logistics of distribution is uninformed.

  • Josh Spece
    9 years ago

    We really are talking about two different creatures...general garden center vs specialty hosta grower.

    I agree with most of the comments about general nurseries. Most are boring and uninspiring. I rarely buy much from them, and even less likely to buy a hosta there. General nurseries usually buy in bareroot field grown stock or larger plugs, because growing TC liners to a retail size takes at least one full season. They can make more money growing 2-3 fast crops in a season with their space.

    And therein lies the issue of price...hostas are a relatively slow crop to produce. The longer it takes to grow a plant, the more it's going to cost. Never mind there is soooo much more cost in producing a plant, than the cost of the plant itself. Then factor in the hours spent hybridizing, collecting, cleaning, and growing seeds...and (ideally) years of evaluation...that's a whole lot of time and effort invested in a finished product that the consumer wants to pay less and less for every year.

    The box store growers make very low margins on large volume. Specialty growers just can not survive doing that. Expecting a specialty grower to conform to mass market prices is guaranteed death for the specialty grower. In the hosta world, it is these small, specialty growers that develop and bring to market the new, cool plants that you all keep saying you want. They need your support...and waiting for the end of the season sale is too late!

    moccasinlanding, in the past few years Q&Z has been introducing some of Van's plants. I can't say for sure, but I suspect Mark asked if he could put some of Van's plants into TC. From there, Q&Z sells the liners to hosta growers across the country and around the world. As for volume...not sure what an average run was for them...maybe 1000+....maybe much more. I do know some varieties are difficult to produce and were very limited (streakers, for example). Most TC contracts (a plant TCed exclusively for a retail grower) are probably around 200-500 plants. Here again, the larger quantity the lab produces, the cheaper the liners are. Most specialty growers can not sell through so many plants in a reasonable time frame.

    It seams the general perception the consumer has is that the specialty growers are filling their bank account from crazy margins we charge. Fact is, many growers are barely scraping by.

    By the way, Tony Avent shared his opinion and condolences on Q&Z in the September Plant Delights newsletter.

  • hostaaddict42
    9 years ago

    I'm not shocked that the wholesale growers are not making much margin and profit after the bills are paid. Q and Z's prices were more than fair and I really couldn't believe how inexpensive their prices were. I'd pay more to have them stay in business.
    The local nurseries were fools not to buy from a Q and Z. There's good money in it for them but they don't care. Plain and simple. They are tied of the customer busting their balls over price, warranting plants because the customer is an idiot, indifferent employees, and to top it off dealing with all the bs local, state, and federal regs. Running a business is brutal. There are burned out.
    As the saying goes "this would be a great business if I didn't have to deal with customers"!

  • bkay2000
    9 years ago

    These are the laments of all small business people. We all suffer with small margins, long hours, stressed, uninformed customers, expensive capital (money and real estate), stupid regulators and high taxes. These last 7 years have been brutal for everyone, not just the plant business.

    bk

  • danicali4nia
    9 years ago

    I know that this is an older post, and also understand forum etiquette on bring up old posts, but I felt that this was the most appropriate place to post this.
    Today was the final day of Q&Z's operations. As a long time employee, it was a very bittersweet day. I was lucky enough to become part of the family that was Q&Z.
    I worked in shipping. It may sound like a menial job, but it was much more important to our customers than most people might realize. I have pulled the plants for your orders, making sure that they were true, healthy, and a plant that I would want to spend my own hard earned money on. I have packed up those plants and did my best to make sure that, no matter how brutal UPS was, they would arrive in the best condition possible.
    Not every order was perfect. Sometimes mistakes were made, but we ALWAYS did our best to make it right.
    I truly loved this job! I truly loved pulling and packing orders from the same customers every year! Thank you all that have ordered from Q&Z over the years!
    Thank you, also, to those who have expressed their sense of loss. To me,that means that I have done my own little part in the Hosta community......