all you need is chunks of WOOD ...

i use what the tree cutters dumped in my yard a few years back ...

i highly doubt it must be pine ... its just that pine is what is usually available ...

and... i presume that part is NOT regional ....

roots need air.. as much as water ... plus larger chunks.. allow better drainage ...

when you water a pot with aged media... it tends to run to the edge.. and straight down the edge ...

with the course material ... it flows thru the whole ... for a longer period ...

ken

I lightly read the link and googled 'expanded shale' and to me what's in the bag might be all you need. Do you have it yet? If yes, then show us a pic, maybe with a ruler for size reference to the chunks in the Ladybug mix.

Santa, now I just mix a large bag of Miracle Grow regular potting soil and a bag of small pine bark mulch. If some of the pieces are too large, I just throw them over on the mulched bed. Both Lowe's and Home Depot carry two sizes of pine bark mulch. I just get the smaller sized chunks.

I tried the 3-1-1 recipe that was recommended on the container site (the same one Mocc linked to), but didn't get the memo about the change to 5-1-1. The 3-1-1 was too dense. I didn't try the 5-1-1.

Actually, I never had any problems with the regular old Miracle Grow straight out of the bag. The moisture control Miracle Grow was a problem, though. After the problems with the moisture control and then the 3-1-1 the next year, I went to the mixture.

bk

bk and Kenâ¦â¦thanks for all of that. I have had no problem with MG either but I planted a few this spring with the Moisture Control before I found this forum and learned of the problems that can cause. Those are the ones I plan to repot with the Ladybug after they go dormant.

Dgregoryâ¦..I haven't even opened the bags yet. I'll do that and see what it looks like, but I am assuming it is composed like most potting soils. I'll report back on that tomorrow and post a pic if there's anything to see except for dirt. :)

Santa, they are recommending that expanded shale be added for bed prep here. I'm not sure that's relevant, but it could be.

bk

I opened the bag of Ladybug. and it just looks pretty much like the Vigoro organic potting soil I bought a few months ago. There are misc chunks in it but not of any meaningful size.

bkâ¦..here is a thread you will find interesting. According to this a biggie with expanded shale is its ability to hold air.

From this link below:

"What is so wonderful about expanded shale? Expanded shale *always* retains 30% air. Even if you dump it into a bucket of water, the stuff still retains 30% air (in normal environmental conditions). This means your plants'
roots always have access to air, so they are pretty much drown-proofed. Texas A&M tested solid clay soil, in a ground-level bed, with moisture-sensitive plants. Solid clay soil slew the poor test plants rapidly (as anyone with clay soil already knew.....) The plants in the bed with expanded shale survived and *thrived*--that 30% air pocket content saved them. Naturally, the 70% water pocket content provides needed moisture to plants, even in challenging conditions like raised beds/containers in 110+ degree F summers. (Probably great for vacation survival for houseplants, too. Also for people with "blue thumbs" who overwater everythingâ¦.)"

Here is a link that might be useful: Expanded Shale

A blend of five superior compost

==>>> i wonder what that means???? .. is there any peat in it at all???

compost can break down very fast .... and once it does.... it MIGHT.... in a pot.. get mucky ...

ken

I just had a 30 minute conversation with the rep from Ladybug. She was fascinated with the fact I was asking for the reason of growing hosta and was very willing to give me her thoughts.

The first thing she said was that she thought that the Votex Potting Soil would likely have a pH that was too high for hostas. It has no peat and she said that it runs between 7-8 pH. She said that if I wanted to I could cut cut it 50-50 with a peat-based product, or they have a product called Raised Bed Blend that might be more inline for what I probably needed. It is a blend of 1/3 compost, 1/3 peat and coconut fiber and 1/3 vermiculite, but as she has no hosta experience did not pretend to know for sure how it might do. The pH of that is in the 7 range.

She also had zero bad things to say about Miracle Grow and said she hesitated to recommend to me that I change what is working for me but was very much interested to hear what my results were if I was to do a head to head comparison of MG and Ladybug.

Kenâ¦..she says that she has things growing in large pots using their product and has no more issue with it breaking down anymore than any other potting soil does eventually break down.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ladybug Raised Bed Blend

santa I just did a Google search about pine fines and came up with many Garden Web sites that had a lot of answers. Using 'pine bark fines Lowes' helped narrow down the possible location search.
Also try entering 'pine bark fines' in the search box at the bottom of the home page and click entire site. 4000+.
Or contact Timberland and see where they sell near you. This is the company but the bag did not say fines on the front but the one I get is the only purple. Good luck and have fun reading.

Out here they label it "groundcover bark". It is fir but accomplishes the same end result.

-Babka

I googled TruGro Soil Conditioner and found one hit below which mentions Ladybug brand. You might be able to get it locally, Santa.

Another link mentions that TruGro is a TXI Martin Marietta company. Interesting.

Also, I may be trying some if I can locate anything locally or shippable. Presently my mix is about half and half mini pine bark nuggets (Lowes carries Evergreen brand made in Alabama in stores in Mobile) and MiracleGro regular potting mix. I throw in some sphagnum peat at random,

Some sources say to add some time release like Osmocote, but I seldom do. After all, it dumps its nutrients when temps reach 90 so they say, and that is about mid June at least, so I save it for feeding my large long-time potted things like bougainvillea, which cannot be bare rooted for up potting.

Oh yes, I mix in crab shells. Crushed crab shells, Neptune's Harvest ordered from Gloucester MA since Amazon's shipper won't deliver. I use that to deter nematodes. It might be wishful thinking, but I'm willing to try anything to halt the bad nems. Crab shells also feed the critters which eat the bad nems, I have read. And, it is not bad for the environment.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ladybug brand Expanded Shale

With what I have read about expanded shale I'm wondering if mixing some of that with potting soil would be as good or better than using the pine bark nuggets? According to the study by A&M it is used mostly for amending poor growing soils like clay, but it may actually serve the same purpose to us as adding bark nuggets.

"Recommendations for using expanded shale with containerized plants call for putting one-third of the material in the bottom, then mixing the expanded shale with potting soil 50-50 for the rest of the pot."

The link below is from a test done in 2003 at A&M.

Here is a link that might be useful: Expanded Shale - A new Possibility for Amending Clay Soils

I'll send the question to my County agent if you will.

bk

I can't seem to locate who that is. How do I go about finding that out?

Is it the county extension agent?

What I did, Santa, was google "county agent Mobile Alabama" and came up with a lot of hits including the offices, personnel, and phone numbers. Try it for your city.