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Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

Posted by brandon7 6b/7b TN (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 29, 12 at 1:45

More and more these days, I'm noticing a disturbing trend, especially in America, where a substantial part of our society seems to be abandoning reason and science in exchange for group-think and ideas that seem to match their political persuasion rather than reflect reality. It's beginning to seem that no matter what the subject, these people automatically gravitate towards the contrarian viewpoint (which at times can be quite bizarre) and simply refuse to consider logical arguments for what would seem to the rest of us to be common knowledge. Questioning, including questioning things that are considered fact, is a wonderful thing and a sign of intelligence, but simply refusing to accept the scientific method or well-documented and reviewed data is certainly something else.

I frequently notice how this way of thinking is becoming a stumbling block to our society's advancement. Often new technologic development is being put on the backburner because it's not a political winner. Even if it's something the majority would want, a vocal and active radical minority seem to be able to suppress advancement. We are also becoming more and more unable to deal with societal issues because of this type of thinking. Whether it's economic issues or problems that require scientific analysis and action based on solid data, our hands are becoming constantly constrained. All that it seems to take is a few nuts twisting the real story to fit their point of view or claiming that the evil scientists are out to get them. Another common ploy is for this group to advance proponents with little to no expertise in the particular subject, but with strong "faith" in the position.

That brings up another part of the problem. Religion, at least for some, is becoming more and more about advancing one's personal philosophical viewpoints than anything else. Now I know this is not necessarily a new thing, but it's practice seems to be intensifying from my perspective. At least the bizarre nature of the issues, religion is now being used to advance, seem to be growing day by day.

One final thing I'm noticing is how at least some members of this group seem to be living in an alternate universe. I've listened to some big-name popular radio hosts describing events, of which I had first-hand knowledge, and their descriptions where almost the exact opposite of what really happened. Strange how their twisted bizarro story matched the philosophy they were trying to espouse.

Are others as concerned about this issue as I am? Is there any hope for humanity if this trend continues? Are we heading for another "dark age"?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

I think India and China are headed for great renaissances. The US seems to be in a decline...most of it self-induced. It's complex and I don't understand it completely. I can make a wish list of things I'd like to see again.

I wish we were:
More self-reliant
More respectful
Better educated
More tolerant of others
Less fearful, paranoid

I think when you get the basics, everything else just sort of falls into place.

It's one thing not to be top dog in EVERYTHING any longer and another entirely to think you should be top dog in everything forever.

I suppose it's easy to scapegoat religion as the root of a lot of our problems but I really think it's more complex than that.

We need to step back and assess ourselves.

-Ron-


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RE: Are We ed For Another 'Dark Age'?

Religious belief can be at odds with science and deductive reasoning. In that respect religion is perpetually stuck in the Dark Ages.
It is no coincidence that the religious among us can more easily be guided or even manipulated by theories and beliefs ...even when contrary to facts and science.
And that fact has not been lost on those who preach to that choir.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

If this is distinctly happening, rather than the ever-present romanticizing of earlier times, it would be another effect of energy-descent.


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Honestly, my opinion is that Homo sapiens has been nothing but a blight on this planet. It would be better for "life" in general if we were to pass from the scene, IMHO, in the hopes that something with less destructive and violent tendencies would evolve to take our place, some life form that would be far better stewards.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

We are destroyers of good things, and goodness.

Goodness: 1. the state or quality of being good. 2. moral excellence; virtue. 3. kindly feeling; kindness; generosity. 4. excellence of quality: goodness of workmanship.

I don't have hope that the future will bring any improvement. That's not saying there aren't good people among us, but that the evil persuades, overpowers and destroys before goodness can overcome.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

I think you missed the point of the OP....or perhaps you have helped to make it.

Back on topic:
a disturbing trend, especially in America, where a substantial part of our society seems to be abandoning reason and science in exchange for group-think and ideas that seem to match their political persuasion rather than reflect reality.

I think this was evident with those who criticized the delay of a decision on the Keystone pipeline before they even researched what the project entailed, what the environmental impact would be and might be across the US and in Canada, how much these oil shales would add to the world oil supply, etc etc.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

No brandon, I don't think we are. The pendulum swings continuously. At this moment in time, the political world is in upheaval. Be it the polarization that is going on in this country. The Arab spring, Syria, etc. When it has reached, and I hope it has, it's extreme, the pendulum will swing again the other way. Seems that it has been that way throughout history.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

History repeats itself... and we are bound to repeat it... mainly through the baser of human emotions and actions, for lack of a better way to put it. Think "the 7 deadly sins"... and I'm not even religious.


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I don't get your point, mrskjun. When the pendulum swings the other way ... we will be out of the path for another dark ages? Does that mean that liberals are in control?

Cause the way I see it, if the conservatives take control that just keeps us on the path to the new dark ages.

Unless I misunderstood you.


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I fear Idiocracy more. More & more people are willing to support US extremism.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

That was an hilarious movie, Labrea... though just a little too foreboding...


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

I frequently notice how this way of thinking is becoming a stumbling block to our society's advancement. Often new technologic development is being put on the backburner because it's not a political winner. Even if it's something the majority would want, a vocal and active radical minority seem to be able to suppress advancement. We are also becoming more and more unable to deal with societal issues because of this type of thinking. Whether it's economic issues or problems that require scientific analysis and action based on solid data, our hands are becoming constantly constrained. All that it seems to take is a few nuts twisting the real story to fit their point of view or claiming that the evil scientists are out to get them. Another common ploy is for this group to advance proponents with little to no expertise in the particular subject, but with strong "faith" in the position.

I agree, except the correct term is not 'radical' but 'reactionary'.

Idiocracy is the outcome of this mindset. And there is no both-sides-do-it.


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The term "Dark Ages" was used later from a better time, in retrospect, the problem I have with the views expressed here is that the "pendulum" may not swing back or as this quote from Timothy has it


in the last days there will be very difficult times.

2 For people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, disobedient to their parents, and ungrateful. They will consider nothing sacred.

3 They will be unloving and unforgiving; they will slander others and have no self-control; they will be cruel and have no interest in what is good.

4 They will betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God.

5 They will act as if they are religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. You must stay away from people like that.

Note last days, not part of an ever changing world.


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True ink, but of this He said, no one will know the day or the hour, only the Father.

esh, thank you for making my point about polarization.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 29, 12 at 10:53

Every age is a dark age, we keep pulling back one curtain just to find another curtain behind it. Some don't like the truths we find behind the curtain so they'll try to close it back for many reasons which vary from maintaining their power over others to those who think blissfulness is more desirable than knowledge. Enlightenment can be painful in many ways, some will do anything to stop the hurt.


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What a gloomy pessimistic offering vgkg. I think this is one of the characteristics of this particular 'age' pessimism can be a cop out as it offers an excuse for inaction. One big difference between now and when I was a kid is the abandonment of hope, in many ways this is understandable but is this particular Dark Age a product of a negative attitude or are things really stacked up against us?


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Well said ink. Don't you think that part of this is the economy and the fact that we have become a culture of the things we own are what defines us? McMansions, luxury cars, a boat in the driveway, a plasma tv, Ipads and Ipods. If I have all these things I will be happy. I will be happy if others see that I have all these things. And now, less and less people can afford these things. When we were children, at least when I was, our parents never used credit cards. A modest home was purchased after much savings and making sure payments were well within the budget. A new car, may happen once in a persons childhood and was a huge event. Now, it's frightening that we are unable to accumulate the latest "things" as we have become accustomed to doing. So the world is becoming bleak. So, again I say, no. We may again return to a country of savers and careful shoppers and find other ways to define ourselves other than our purchase power.


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While I realize the existence of historical pendulum swings (the Dark Ages which lasted many hundreds of years but eventually and gradually ended, slavery followed by emancipation, etc), that's still not very comforting. I'm not sure our society has such long periods of time to continue down the wrong path on so many issues. Even if society survives, it's daunting to consider the huge loss of potential and the degree of pain we'll have to go through until the fringe among us wake up.

When thinking about it more, one possibility that worries me is that I see some indication that the pendulum is not swinging back yet (we're not at the peak of the arc yet). When I see some of the responses of people in this forum (and everywhere for that matter), I often shake my head and wonder what their grandchildren or great grandchildren would think of them if they were able to look back and see the viewpoints. I bet many would think their ancestors were horrible people; at least that seems to be how things have occurred in the past (most of the current younger generation would be pretty repulsed if they knew of the cruelty of their ancestors towards slaves, for instance). But, if current trends persist, I can see the possibility that it may take many generations before the "intellectual atrocities" of parts of our society are revealed.

Complacency among those that aren't "blinded" is surely making the pendulum swing deeper and deeper. I see a large part of our society pulling hard in the wrong direction, about half of society just sitting around looking dumb (making only minimal effort to change things), and only a small minority pulling for the betterment of society. I think we'll all agree that politicians are the best at doing little to nothing to accomplish anything, but, since we elect them, why is it that we don't find people that are willing to stand up against the insanity and actually get something accomplished?

I know many things have moved forward in the last few years; it's not like we are totally stuck in the ditch yet. It just bothers me that instead of getting down the highway, we seem to be playing in the mud. And, it's raining!


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I don't think America will ever again return to the heights of our historical past. I am not optimistic because it seems human nature cannot be changed. As one great said, "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it." We as a nation learned nothing from our involvement in Viet Nam, as we proceeded to go on to invade Iraq, breaking that country and contributing to its destructive Civil War. I fear some day we will misread the signals and it will be too late for us. There has already been more than one Holocaust.

I agree with the OP in that Americans increasingly feel a need to pontificate about their belief systems and/or wear their religion on their sleeves. Faith is not science. Often those who drink the coolade have been proved to be easily swayed by authoritarian systems, which fear to question. That's dangerous, in my view.

Lastly, for complex reasons, American has become increasingly dumbed down during the last 5 decades. The reasons are complex; I think the media has a large role in that it feeds entertainment so thoroughly to the masses that they have come to expect to be constantly entertained. Our present day politics reflects this. I think some of these issues in the US could be fixed if we improved our educational system drastically, but I don't see that happening anytime in my lifetime....


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I agree Mrs K. The problem is though we didn't choose the austerity that we grew up with it was a case of necessity, a situation we found ourselves in and made the best of. I am not sure we wouldn't make the same mistakes regarding materials as people indulge in today and I doubt that many would chose to live as we did given the alternative. We now have an economy that depends on us buying stuff and we are caught in a trap that surrounds us in an urgent call to spend and buy more stuff. Having said all that I think that learning to live with less is a positive move as is looking for something in our lives that can't be bought at Wal.Mart.


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The height of our "glory" occurred during and post WWII. It was a one-time thing, and God forbid that it should be repeated.

It's a good thing that the standard of living is improving in other countries, but it is to our detriment. We need leaders who will guide us into this new age, and not allow us to sink too low, but who is working to help us maintain a good standard of living? Certainly not our corrupt politicians.


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I agree with Mrskjun about the need for at least a reasonable amount of living within our means; and I bet pretty much everyone here does, to a large degree. There are two problems though. One is that the politicians are nearly 100% disingenuous about their attempts to fix the problem on a national level, and another is that many want reform overall but not to the things in their back yard. I guess that's just human nature, but it's something we are going to have to overcome if we are going to succeed.

This economic problem is definitely closely related to my original topic and deserving of much attention, but it's not what worries me the most. What worries me, even more than our country being in a bad financial situation, is our society going intellectually bankrupt.


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In the U.S. context, our dismal economy is partly the result of wars of empire that few in the political class seem willing to end, partly the result of ceding to the demands of industry / oligarchs and to abolish regulations and controls (including Glass Steagall) and drastically reduce taxes on same oligarchs, and partly the result of promotion (by a certain segment of the elite) of anti-science Christian sects whose beliefs serve those promoting war and torture, and that deny global climate change. The assault on public education is helping matters either.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

"What worries me, even more than our country being in a bad financial situation, is our society going intellectually bankrupt."

That also happened in the Arab world some time ago, apparently while the West was going through the Dark Ages.
Again, it was the result of religious fundamentalists undermining science.

I think you have good reason to be concerned.


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  • Posted by sweeby Gulf Coast TX (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 29, 12 at 14:30

I share your concern Brandon, and think you've stated your position very well --

"his economic problem is definitely closely related to my original topic and deserving of much attention, but it's not what worries me the most. What worries me, even more than our country being in a bad financial situation, is our society going intellectually bankrupt."

This last part especially -- It's the subjugation of science and fact to religion and belief systems that concerns me the most.

There are none so blind as those who will not see --
and too many Americans don't want to see.


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No matter what side you come down on, this fear of religion is a new phenomenon. America has always been a very religious country. And the other side of the coin, is religion feeling like it is being attacked and subjugated to 2% of the population. Another pendulum I suppose.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

this fear of religion is a new phenomenon

No, it is not.

Waves of Catholic immigrants from Ireland and southern Europe had the WASPs wringing their hands in past centuries. You know the drill -- those people multiply like rabbits and we'll be overwhelmed with Papists.

You can also find hints of this anti-Catholic sentiment in some of the nativist screeds against Latinos.

The rhetoric coming from some high-profile Christian fundamentalists shows no love for the Mormons.


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I agree that the US has always been proudly religious. Some discrimination here and there, as Nancy mentions Catholics and Mormons as well as Jews.

However, maybe I'm just more aware of it now, but in the last few years there seems to have been an uptick in the way religion plays into politics. That's what I find worrisome, when religion starts influencing legislation.

It's interesting to me that those that decry Arab countries for laws that are based in Islam, especially those affecting women, seem perfectly content to have their religious views imposed on women in North America.

Think about it, it's a slippery, slippery slope.


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 29, 12 at 17:26

Inki, sure it sounds pessimistic, it's the truth and the truth can be scary to people (no reflection on anyone here, just the world population in general). People have their own truths that they are comfortable with. As for myself I'm not down about it, just stating that civilizations have always been in the dark, all of them, even though they were certain about their particular age of truths. As mentioned in another thread, every time we answer a question we raise more questions. So in way we're becoming more ignorant...:)....or at the very least we should be more aware of just how ignorant we truly are.


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The issue is the impact of stubborn ideology ...even in the face of facts and circumstances that cry out for creative, thoughtful, well reasoned solutions and fundamental change.

Religion is a major detriment to to scientific analysis and solutions to social and environmental problems that conflict with religious dogma. Thus we see people lined up predictably on one side of the other of issues like global warming, stem cell research, a woman's right to abortion, the core Israeli/Palestinian issues over the Holy land, etc.

We also see a growing number of reactionaries, albeit a minority, who want their country to go back to something it can never be again.

I believe this next election will speak volumes about which way we go and that the next generation will judge the decision we make harshly, especially since there is so much at stake.


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I think a person can be decent, insightful, intelligent, rational... but people, plural, often tend to be reactionary, fearful, irrational... much like lemmings leaping, following the crowd without knowing why.

An excerpt from some very interesting information... that usually gets scoffed at as "socialism or communism" ideas, but is anything but...

"In short, the Social System itself is considered the root cause, with Human Behavior and its resulting effects - corruption, pollution, wars, waste, exploitation and hence distortion of values and psychology - seen as symptoms of this fundamental root source.

Modern psychological and sociological study has found that human actions are susceptible to environmental influence. What is rewarded by the culture tends to be perpetuated. For example, it is commonly considered a "moral" issue when a corporation engages in deliberate pollution to save money. Many outcry that the corporation's people must be "corrupt" who would allow for such a thing. The flaw, however, is in the assumption. If we exist in a system that allows us to "save money" and hence be more "economically efficient" by being exploitation, abusive or indifferent, why should we not expect it to occur, especially in a system based on competition where advantage is always sought?

In other words, "corruption" is being reinforced. Therefore the solution is not more "laws" to try and stop this behavior. The solution is to create a social system that doesn't reinforce or reward such behavior at all. Laws are mere "patches" that work against the internal logic of the system as it stands."

So, basically, our root problems go extremely deep, and we keep putting band aids on the symptoms instead of addressing the core issues.

Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ and other info


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

I'm not so pessimistic as to envision a post Apocalyptic hell rife with the human bankruptcy of spirit.

But any "Renaissance" that dawns will have to come in with a generation that realizes justice and morality have to be applied evenly, and that religion is not a competitive sport.


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Brandon, you wrote: That brings up another part of the problem. Religion, at least for some, is becoming more and more about advancing one's personal philosophical viewpoints than anything else.

and MrsK illustrated it by writing:

No matter what side you come down on, this fear of religion is a new phenomenon. America has always been a very religious country. And the other side of the coin, is religion feeling like it is being attacked and subjugated to 2% of the population.


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Is it safe to say that most of the contributions to this thread see Brandons concerns as the problem of an American Dark Age unconnected with any global concerns? Do people think that there is a political way out of the darkness?p> Maybe I don't believe in the prediction from Timothy that we are heading for end times but when people talk of a pendulum I wonder if we have resigned ourselves to this fate or if we can alter the course some how.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

Scope - I could be wrong about this (I have only limited information upon which to draw the conclusion), but I see the push in a backwards direction more from this country than from other places in the world. I am aware of examples where similar trends occur worldwide, but they don't appear to be as widespread or to have quite the amplitude. And, some parts of the world seem kind mired down to where an additional push backwards wouldn't be as noticeable anyway. In parts of the middle east, for instance, a push backwards is just business as usual.

Political Solution - The only solution I see is for the rational part of society to leave their easy chairs and start taking their civic duty more seriously. Unfortunately, I haven't really seen that trend start to get much traction.

Religion - I'm fine with including this into the discussion and I did bring it up, but I think it may be a mistake to put too much emphasis on it. Religion doesn't destroy society; people do. Even though some religious beliefs can be incredibly damaging, it's people who hold the beliefs and use the beliefs in negative ways that cause the problem. Few religions are comprised solely of "nut jobs".


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I am reasonably optimistic about a new Age of Enlightenment in certain areas from alternative energy to education because of the way the internet is being used as a tool to share knowledge and information, At the end of the day though, I remain very pessimistic about the structural flaws in our system of capitalism that have decimated the poor and much of our middle class.

The housing crash and foreclosure epidemic siphoned trillions of middle class money into big banks, Wall Street and the investment class. Meanwhile the value of foreclosed properties fell precipitously along with the fortunes of those whose lives have been turned around by what happened.

The reason I am pessimistic is that I do not see how we can sustain a middle class without a manufacturing base (which we have lost over the past 50 yrs.) and now without jobs in construction, housing, and all related industries. i also do not see how we can sustain a middle class by lowering wages, destroying unions, stripping pensions and health insurance benefits, and slashing salaries for teachers, firemen and police.
I just can't see how austerity will do anything but take down the middle class until the rampant income inequality reaches a critical mass.


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The only solution I see is for the rational part of society to leave their easy chairs and start taking their civic duty more seriously.

Except that republicans do not view government as a proper vehicle for economic stimulus. They do not want government to subsidize research, regulate industry, or even to build out infrastructure, unless it is for an oil pipeline.
Republicans put their faith in corporations and private industry and in the almighty dollar.
Unfortunately, that has not worked for people in the lower 50% income bracket.


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Seems like at least some of the resistance to advancement may actually be casing a lot of our economic problems. If we would work together as a society to fix some of the many problems we face, think of all the jobs that could produce.

Looking in the other direction, I think some of our "backwards" way of thinking may be largely responsible for the growing income inequality. Our society is changing, our economic philosophy is changing, but our changing philosophy is not working well with our changing society. Like in other areas, society is going to have to wake up, or things are going to get pretty bad for a lot of us in this country (and maybe for the entire country). If the country ends up as 1% well-off and 99% beggars, that isn't gonna work. Unfortunately, some would seemingly love to see it that way (and, surprisingly, it isn't necessarily just members of the 1%, like you might expect).


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Re: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

"Except that republicans do not view government as a proper vehicle for economic stimulus."

What about their opposition? What are they doing to address the problem?


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

What are they doing? What would you like them to do?
Those who have lost their jobs, their employer paid health benefits and their homes are suffering and living substandard lives. They cry, they worry about their futures and their children's futures. Are they trying to recover? Of course, but they have been beaten down so far that their situations are almost terminal.
Do you know what a foreclosure and unpaid utilities and bills or a bankruptcy does to one's credit?

I know many people who have suffered such an unfortunate fate.
Als, I have been inside countless homes that have been foreclosed on during the past three years, many of which have fallen into disrepair and need repairs to even make them inhabitable.

People who got turned around are trying to make it the best they can. Many, especially those over 50 can no longer get jobs in this job market or have a skill set that is sought after. Tradesmen? Forget it.
A lot of those young people you see at the 99% rallies are their children...kids whose parents lost their homes and can no longer help them with college tuition or in some cases, even keep them in the public schools they were in or in a decent rental with some degree of dignity.
This is a Dark Age for a growing economic underclass in this country and for many, it will consume the rest of the time they have remaining in their lives.
For these people, seeing Romney as the Republican's chosen one, touting corporations as people and making $50,000 a day while not working, has to sicken them.

I know people have heard about how bad things are for some people, but i do not think that all of them can appreciate the scope of the problem. I also believe that many who are doing fine in their own lives just don't give a sh1t.


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"Except that republicans do not view government as a proper vehicle for economic stimulus."

What about their opposition? What are they doing to address the problem?

Wringing their hands and blaming George Bush!!


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What about their opposition? What are they doing to address the problem?

They have to waste their time correcting falsehoods and lies. Just look around this board.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

Brandon:...."is our society going intellectually bankrupt."

Very well said. But apart from myself, no one but Heri has even mentioned reforming our educational system in terms of how we in the future can compete with China and Europe and other upcoming areas on the globe.

I think Obama is on the right track in at least one way, when he mentioned upgrading community colleges nationwide in order to retool young people for future jobs. With the shift from manufacturing, America needs to think outside of the box and attack change in a more creative way. I just cannot imagine most of our nation enmeshed in low paying service jobs, with seniors unable to find any work other than Walmart greeters, college educated kids flipping burgers, Ph.d's driving taxi cabs, and the rest living on the street in cardboard boxes.... That is our future, or worse, unless we wake up soon.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

Do you think that much of this process began after 9/11? I mean, paranoia made people give up so many things they shouldn't have given up, but it's almost like A) Americans are running to "momma" or B) want change. Any change that won't bring us to that point ever again. I just cannot figure out why all of this began in the first place.

Also related, sort of: There was a kid on TV last night and he had been in/out of jails since a very young age until his grand parents stepped in and took charge. He got "discipline" (his word) and was able to get on the right track. Why couldn't his parent, the child of the very same grandparents NOT raise him well enough if she received the same raising? I wouldn't say this is isolated either. The current group (of whom I am a member) of parents/young parents of today use so many bad parenting practices? I don't understandy why they turned? Why have they gone to the lazy/hands off extreme?

Why are so many Americans so polarized from the baby boomer group/their parents? I don't understand.


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It's called 'freedom' rob,this is what we wanted wasn't it ? Freedom from religion, rules, parents or anyone else telling us what to do. A free market in a free society and look out nirvana here we come,freedom with no restraint whatsoever is non creative and you don't have to look very far for examples. Truth is that most of us become self indulgent when given the freedom to do whatever we want with no reference (or reverence) to anything or anyone else and life becomes a free for all. Like I said earlier this is the attraction of fundamentalism when people crave some kind (apparently ANY kind)of direction. The right road is in the middle there somewhere but I don't think it can be found without some kind of guidance or a reversal of the trend that Thatcher set in motion with her "there is no such thing as society".


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The Republicans are trying to distance themselves from Dubya's disaster and at the same time they have the nerve to try to shove the same hands-off government and pro-corporate policies on us under a different name...Romney.

Now, tell us once again how you deeply hate government confiscating your money for taxes that go into social programs, public education, or alternative energy programs that you don't want. Tell us how you think that we need to cut social security and medicare or end it in order to cut down the debt,
explain once again, how these corporation who are holding on to an estimated 2 Trillion in cash will decide to invest in job creation
And, while you are at it, tell us how Romney proposes to solve the problem of existing foreclosures that drag down home prices and the hundreds of thousands of existing mortgages where people owe more than the amount of the note.
And what is Romney's solution for the 50 million without health insurance? He seems to think he can make private insurance companies lower prices and accept those with pre-existing conditions or keep twenty-somethings on their parents policy without a law like Obamacare that forces them to?

Perhaps you can lay on some more GOP talking points/one liners like 'Hey don't blame us or bush, after all, what the he11 did we have to do with this, it was Fannie and Freddie and Barney Frank, you know that gay Democrat, wink-wink, ahahahaha. Let's make Obama own it. After all he had 2 years that he could have fixed the global economy and the foreclosure crisis even though we were filibustering him the whole time, yuk,-yuk-yuk..."


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RE: 'Dark Age'?

heri: I assume that you are talking to Mrs K.

Now back to the OP. Do you honestly believe that the 'Dark Age' that Brandon and others have articulated here can be averted by voting Obama in November?


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

I would suggest that romney doubling down on Bush policies and making another Supreme Court appointment would absolutely take us in the wrong direction.
I would also suggest that President Obama has a much clearer idea and plan for investing in education, infrastructure, and alternative energy than any in the Rep. field.
I would also suggest that electing another silver spooner who has no idea about how middle class people live or what problems they face would be a disaster.
I would suggest that Bainsian economics, an specifically romney's plan to shuck all the mortgages where home owners are behind, under pressure and under water, is something that should make a lot of people that actually have an understanding of what is happening out there in the real world very nervous.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

I think your fixation is blinding you heri, I don't mean to be rude but you have not grasped the breadth of what is being talked about here if you think that another political soap box speech is the answer.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

Self serving rubbish.
Get over your fixation with me ink.
It's gotten old....and kind of weird .


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RE: Another 'Dark Age'?

So you really don't see it heri but fair enough as it is pointless talking with you anyway my fixation is over although it makes me sad.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

heri: I assume that you are talking to Mrs K.

I was before you started railing at me out of nowhere.
Now, fixate elsewhere unless I address you by name. ;-)


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

eedjit.


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RE: Are We Headed For Another 'Dark Age'?

I believe Heri has a right to be angry about a lot of things people are experiencing now... things they could never have imagined they'd have to deal with... because of how our elected representatives have handled things, for one... caving to greed and corruption and the wishes and promises of the industry/corporate world, cronyism.

A lot of former middle class persons are now wondering how tomorrow will play out... will there be enough for rent, food, utilities? What if one of us gets sick or injured, or loses a job? What if a job can't be found? And so many more worrying questions...

I believe we all have a right to be angry that money plays such a huge role in our campaigns and elections, and that so much white collar crime and corruption goes on unobstructed, and virtually unpunished.

An educated public is a dangerous public, someone once said... and slowly, our public educational system has been the victim of budget cuts, curriculum changes, union issues... teaching for testing instead of teaching life skills has become the norm. Critical cognitive thought and problem solving skills don't seem to be a part of education any longer. And I'm sure there's more...

As a society, there's an awful lot of complacency, entitlement, impatience, self involvement, materialism, we live lives of convenience and are continually influenced and manipulated through entertainment and biased media, we have short attention spans, and are easily distracted...

Extremism, racism, discrimination, hate, bullying... greed, war...

It's my opinion that our very social structure and how it has evolved is the source of our problems... and all of our problems are just symptoms of that warped structure. It's pretty blatant in the US, but there are global issues, too.


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