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Kitties VS guns

Posted by lily316 z5PA (My Page) on
Sat, Jan 19, 13 at 2:42

A mother of one of the children killed at Sandy Hook told an interviewer that it takes longer to adopt a kitten than to buy a gun. Our local TV station decided to do both. Entering a gun shop he passed all the background tests with no problem since he was clean and had no record. He was able to purchase a gun that day.

Then he went to a shelter and tried to adopt a cat. There was a long form to fill out including how many people live in your house, do you rent, phone number of landlord, do you have other pets, names and health records of those pets, name of veterinarian to check if animals are up to date with shots, and all your other pets must be spayed and neutered as well as the newly adopted one.(If not already).

The Connecticut mom said they even called her neighbors to find out what kind of family they were.

I can attest to all the above as I have rescued many pets including the six I have now. In fact I had to drag all four of my totally indoor cats to the vet for rabies shots before I could rescue my dog.

So the answer is even if you passed both tests with flying colors, you can walk out with a gun that day and it takes three or four days to get a cat.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Kitties VS guns

Clearly, your mistake was in not buying a cat from a private dealer or at a show, without a background check. At least you're a nice, responsible person. Think of all of the people on the prohibited list who are illegally obtaining cats on the black market or through private sales. God only knows that they intend to do with those cats.

(Just to clarify, sarcasm, not of the OP in any way, great thing you have done by helping animals in need -- sarcasm aimed at our lovely, perverted set of firearms laws that have loopholes big enough to float the USS Eisenhower through them).


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How's the 26 good deeds list coming along? :)


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So the answer is even if you passed both tests with flying colors, you can walk out with a gun that day and it takes three or four days to get a cat.

*

Yea, it should be quicker to get a cat.

Seriously, it doesn't matter to me how LONG it takes to be checked out, only that the laws are enforced to the letter of the law. We have databases set up to quickly okay someone for a background check to purchase firearms.
If that took longer, so be it. What is important is tht the check is what it should be.

One would think they could use the same database for adopting a cat--if you are deemed responsible enough to own a gun by the government, surely you are responsible enough to feed a cat and change litter.

I guess the irresponsible people can always pick up a cat off the side of the road, from a friend, or through the Thifty Nickel, or steal one--the same ways criminals procure guns.

Edited to add, I just read Denninmi's post, looks like we share that sarcasm!

This post was edited by demifloyd on Sat, Jan 19, 13 at 9:36


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ROTF~ That is too funny.


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"One would think they could use the same database for adopting a cat."
Holy smokes. How can anyone anywhere who identifies as a conservative actually propose that the government keep tabs on people in this way.
So now,besides gunfighters in every school, conservatives are calling for a national database identifying who buys what. That seems like a lot of government to me.


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I guess sarcasm is wasted on you ninamarie, even when I specifically note that fact.


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I hope something is done with the gun violence policies put forward. I do not doubt that we will still have gun deaths but if we save one life it will be worth the fight.

On the other side of the conversation "Cat" Ferdinand is a fighter you just have to catch him when he is wake. When you get out of the bed he will be somewhere waiting to jump in and take your place in the bed. It took me three months to get him. Purchased from a breeder.


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That is just too cute.


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My guns and cats adopted me: the guns were given to me when I was an older teen. The cats just showed up looking for an easy meal. After they commit to staying, they get a ride to the vet for neutering and inoculations. The guns stay in my bedroom and the cats usually do too at night when we are sleeping. The cats are free to go in and out through their cat doors. Sometimes I wake up with a surprise guest in my bed.
I've never filled out papers (other than the vet) for any of them.


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Adopting a rescue dog of specific breeds is just as onerous as described for adopting cats. My crew and I spent a lot of time and the client's money redoing her backyard to be more pet friendly so as to help qualify for adoption. Amazing.


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  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Sat, Jan 19, 13 at 11:22

Every so often see I see a "Free Kittens for Good Home" sign around the neighborhood, have yet to see a "Free Gun for Good Home" sign. Maybe if guns could self replicate? An NRA dream come true.


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Maybe if guns could self replicate? An NRA dream come true.

Good one, vg--although, strictly speaking, if it is true that the NRA is nowadays mainly run by big gun businesses out to make a big buck, they probably won't support self-replicating guns. No money in that!

Kate


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I don't know about guns, but you have to go through a similar process to get a cat/kitten around here. I tried a year ago, and gave up. Some agencies required your keep them indoors (most of my cats have gone outside). Some required you adopt 2 kittens so they wouldn't be lonely. Some were "rescues" and who knows what their backgrounds are? Frankly, I already have a cat who was rescued as a kitten, and she is neurotic and has chronic GI and urinary health issues, don't need another.

Hardly anybody seems to have "free kittens" any more. I suppose that is good, maybe it means people are being responsible pet owners and getting their animals spayed and neutered.

I suspect that this is not true in many other parts of the US and it's much easier to find a free kitten.


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Some of you seem to have oppositional disorder. Shouldn't it take longer to get a gun than a pet(lets leave specific sorts of pets out of this argument)? This post is not about the fact that YOU can easily get a pet but that it is often easier to get a gun-any sort of gun. Shouldn't it be hard to get a gun? If you make it more difficult perhaps some people will rethink killing themselves or others. I believe we would be a better country if when you decide to off your neighbor and run down to Walmart to get a gun they tell you that you have to fill out a boat load of paperwork and wait 3 days. With no gun show in town and since you are hoping to not get caught that lets out canvasing the neighbors for some one with a gun to sell..it give you time to think and that is one step forward for America. Getting a handle on gun violence, and viloence in general has to be done in steps I think.


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Getting a handle on gun violence, and viloence in general has to be done in steps I think.

Words of Wisdom. Bear repeating.

Kate


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  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Jan 19, 13 at 14:22

>That is just too cute<

Yep.


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Terrene..I forgot that requirement you mentioned. ALL cats adopted around here MUST never be let outside. This happens to be a philosophy I agree with, but it's very stringent, and how can it be enforced?

I know a wealthy woman who years ago saw a cat in Petsmart and applied to the group to adopt her. On the application she answered honestly that she would let the cat outside. She lives in the middle of eight acres and is a very kind person to all animals. She was denied and can't ever adopt from that particular group again.

A few years ago I saw a darling wirehaired mutt at my vets office when my first dog was getting a check up. Woman said she was fostering him, and I could adopted him. So I went home and put in my application only to receive a snotty reply by the group. "There are five others ahead of you on the list ,but we will not be adopting out animals to you because you don't take your cats to the vet yearly for exams". People always have said in their next life they want to be one of my cats who live very well. Some of these rescue groups are Nazi -like. I want them to screen carefully but these are animals who would be euthanized and they turn away many very qualified people because of their rules.


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Cats live longer if they are not let outside. That is true. I do not let him out willingly sometime he runs out maybe once or twice a year but he runs back scream at the door in 5 - 10 minutes sooner if he runs into a deer. One time I ran behind him and we were both facing a deer. It was like a cartoon he stopped so fast turned around and jumped into my arms screaming bloody murder.

I did not see him run for the door for a year after that incident. He does get a check up once a year along with the dog. It is just for my peace of mind that nothing is brewing that I have not detected. The check ups are cheap for both it is 50.00.

I do not have to get my gun a checkup. Maybe we should require the gun owner and their guns get a checkup once a year.


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  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sat, Jan 19, 13 at 16:30

What happens when your gun sees a deer?


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I told my husband about this thread, and he saw the show last as well( in his man cave) and said it took mere hours to get the gun ,and the guy was told the background check on the cat would be done in three or four days.

Husband also reminded me how even more stringent the rules for adopting a rescue dog are. EACH time I have adopted a dog, the rescue lady has come to my house, checked the interior and exterior, walking the fence and suggesting where it might need to be reinforced. I doubt they come to your house when you buy a gun to see how many little kids you have and how you plan to lock up your guns.


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Last year, at a 'flea market" in Florida, my DH was told he could purchase a very powerful with rifle, the fact he was a Canadian , without any licenses etc , was a non issue....lovely selling firearms to foreigners!

Same trip he came down with a cold and d@mn near has to sign his life away to get cold medication which we can buy off the shelf here....go figure.


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What happens when your gun sees a deer?
My gun has never seen a deer.


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My gun has never seen a deer either. My shotgun encountered a rabid raccoon a few years back (a danger to my cats, neighbors, and me). The danger ended suddenly, and Animal Control thanked me when they showed up 2 hours after they were called. It went into my compost pile.
Marquest, you may be right, but my cats came from the wild and would be unhappy to be trapped inside and I provide them the choice. On average, they seem to last 15 years or more and are happy. Wouldn't we be happy to choose inside or outside, at work or lazing at home? Quality over quantity.


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So the answer is even if you passed both tests with flying colors, you can walk out with a gun that day and it takes three or four days to get a cat.

Right. All persons purchasing guns should have to get a rabies shot.


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lol...Bill


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I understand a cat that adopts you would want to be both outside and inside. One adopted me and when he wanted to go outside I let him because he would get very upset if I did not. The problem I had when he came home I had to take him to the vet. He would come home beat up bleeding or hurt somewhere. After a year one night he did not come home. It broke my heart. I get to attached.


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Who was that pro-gun guy last week on TV that was ranting and raving (and later came back and calmly said he didn't mean all the ranting and raving). I have to admit that given his rabid ravings, I would have approved giving him a rabies shot!

Kate


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  • Posted by momj47 7A..was 6B (My Page) on
    Sat, Jan 19, 13 at 19:02

That's a good idea Bill, seeing as how you all are out there in the woods with all those wild animals. No telling when one will turn on you.


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I think you will find that the requirement that cats are confined inside has to do with the fact that cats hunt and kill native wildlife.
its for the safety of the wildlife.


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As a bird and nature enthusiast I am 100% behind youngquinn. Cats will do just fine in the house. Songbirds do not do as well with the nonnative cats outside (just my opinion).


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marquest, you have a good heart. I lost 1 cat years ago to a pack of neighborhood dogs. I ran out and tried to save it - got bit myself - the cat was dead.
I made a point of speaking face-to-face with each neighbor who owned a dog and promised them next time I would shoot and kill any dog intent on killing an animal of mine on my property, and then shook their hand because I was sincere. That was the last cat I have had damaged because of outside exposure.
YQ, you make a good point but my bird feeders are full of hungry birds and my birdbath is used by birds, cats, opposums, raccoon's, etc. Wildlife seems to have struck a good balance here.


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If ours get hold of one we are all in big trouble...


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Yeah, but it's not written into the Bill of Rights that you can own a cat.

Just read this today, "Three hurt in firearm accident at North Carolina gun show."

Wonder how often cats kill people...uh, I mean people with cats kill people.

-Ron-


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There are hazards for the cats outdoors, the biggest is probably cars. The cat love of my life was a big male who was indoor/outdoors for 19 years, both in the city and country. When he wanted to go out, there was no getting in his way. Went through his 9 lives, no doubt about it, but he was smart as a whip and died on the kitchen floor while I stroked him, of plain 'ole old age.

Most people freak out about outdoor cats because they kill pretty birds and cute baby bunnies. I consider my current cat (and her predecessors) to be working animals, as well as pets. They have a job, and that is to be a mouser, both inside and out the house. Without them, this property would be overrun with chipmunks, voles, and mice. You should have seen the DISGUSTING insulation I had to replace due to the previous owner having let mice overrun the basement. My little girl took care of that problem!

My back yard is flourishing bird habitat (partly by design), despite the fact she catches an occasional bird. Besides, humans are BY FAR the biggest threat to bird populations. The 2 biggest causes of bird mortality are 1) destruction of bird habitat and 2) collisions with man-made structures (mostly windows).


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Let's not pretend that outdoor cats don't cause massive damage to the songbird populations, even if we don't notice it at our feeders or birdbaths.


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Ask my cats how rough their life is lying by the woodstove when it's 21 outside and the wind is howling. I have had cats who wanted out, none were ever allowed except the first one when I was young and naive. He went missing for two days in our old neighborhood and everyone was looking for him. When he returned from God knows where, he was hurt badly and then grounded, and all cats since then have been. The present four have not ever been outside except for the formerly feral female who remembers how starved and cold she was. None ever try to escape, even if the door is wide open. Too many people hate cats, poison them or shoot them. Cars, antifreeze, others cats, dogs and disease are other reasons and I'd never be able to sleep knowing my cats weren't in the house.

My yard is a certified backyard wildlife area(National Wildlife Association), and I have a gazillion squirrels, one a pet one I raised, many birds such as cardinals , chickadees, titmouse, three kinds of woodpeckers cat birds, doves. I found a dead female cardinal last summer under the feeder and the male sang for days for her. I want this not to happen in my yard or anywhere. Birds have a tough enough life.

.We loaded up tonight on birdseed at the store, and husband said we spend more feeding the birds , cats, and dogs than ourselves.


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Let's also not pretend that too many humans and our rampaging development, and perverted ways of landscaping our own little properties, are not a much more massive and urgent problem for songbirds.

This post was edited by terrene on Sun, Jan 20, 13 at 4:38


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Lily, there are so many ways that I could respond to your post, but I don't want this thread to digress into a cat debate. BTDT. Believe me I read and think very seriously about the issue.

However, IMO even our pets and the way we "feed" the birds are problematic. Do you think about how many livestock animals suffered and died so you could have pampered house pets? How about the hazards of bird feeders? How about the natural resources used and carbon emissions associated with such luxuries? How about the fact that chipmunks (whose population is controlled by my cat) are a major predator of bird eggs and nestlings?

No issue is black and white.


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It does not take much to find a page that details the destruction of your outdoor kitties.

Here is a link that might be useful: Are cats bad for the environment


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Frank that article is hardly comprehensive. It also discusses feral cats, which is whole 'nother complicated subject. Do more research.

Funny the cat in the picture of that article has a house sparrow in its paws. Good kitty! House sparrows are highly invasive in the North America (and around the world), now the most populous bird in the US, and are also a cause of the decline of native songbirds.


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I have done plenty of research on it. Luckily, I have not let my love of cats blind me to the truths of the situation.
You only know a fraction of the animals that your cats take out. There is no doubt that humans' destruction of ecosystems is the #1 cause of songbird and small natives' deaths. I consider cat predation to be a contributing factor to that very problem.


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"A new report gives new meaning to the old phrase, "Look what the cat dragged in."

Researchers from the University of Georgia recently took a deeper look into the predatory lives of house cats by putting cameras around their necks. About 60 cat owners in Athens, Georgia enlisted their pet cats for the study.

For about four to six hours per day for seven to 10 days, pet owners would place kitty cameras, which were made by the National Geographic CritterCam team, around their cats' necks and let them free outside. During that period of time outdoors, the camera would record all of the cats' activities. Later, the cats would be let back in and owners would download the footage.

According to the National Geographic CritterCam team, which makes mobile data gathering systems to record animal behavior, these kitty cameras were the smallest they've created to date.

The study found that only 30 percent of the 74 million U.S. house cats prey on smaller animals, but this 30 percent is taking part in much more outdoor hunting than previously thought. According to study leader Kerrie Anne Loyd, previous numbers were likely lower because "they didn't include the animals that cats ate or left behind."

While the study didn't give a total number of prey killed by the house cats, about 49 percent of critters killed by house cats were left for dead, 30 percent were eaten and just under 25 percent were brought home.

Of the total critters killed, 41 percent were lizards, snakes, and frogs; 25 percent were mammals like chipmunks; 20 percent were insects and worms, and 12 percent were birds. In fact, house cats are one of the reasons that one in three American bird species are becoming endangered.

In addition to killing prey, the house cats were taking part in dangerous activities like crossing roads, playing in storm drains, entering crawl spaces and eating/drinking things they found."

Here is a link that might be useful: link


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Well aren't you special, assuming others are blind because they have a different perspective from you. I am well aware that cats kill birds and eat/kill many other species, some estimate over 100 different species, from insects, reptiles and snakes, mammals, etc. It is estimated that cats kill anywhere between 50-300 million birds per year in the US, which is not good. But compare that to up to 1 Billion that are killed by collisions, and how many billions due to human development.

I have ONE cat, she hunts mostly rodents, but occasionally kills other creatures too. It does bother me, but it's a balance. She's a wonderful pet but cats have another important purpose, the same purpose they have had for humans for over 10,000 years when cats were domesticated as a working companion animal. As a mouser.


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My sweetie pies are ( actually one is a "were") both indoor cats. Life sport for them was coming up to the cottage, when it was still a very rustic cabin, and "mousing".

They would drop their "trophies" at my feet and look for praise...uuuuggggh. My DH ,who was otherwise the resident "mouser", appreciated their "skill" much more than I!


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"the same purpose they have had for humans for over 10,000 years when cats were domesticated as a working companion animal. As a mouser."

Yes that is why cats were domesticated, on other continents where the other animals had the opportunity to evolve next to them.


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Uh, yeah, when humans were limited to a narrow range on the earth as well. Then humans (who are the #1 most invasive species on the planet) migrated around, and brought the cats and ultimately thousands of other invasive species with them.

Where ever humans settled, they created dwellings and structures that then created ideal habitat for rodents and other undesirable species. So the cats continue to have that purpose.


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The things that you just said are true. It does not make it "right". If you want to get snippy, I can accommodate. I just find it odd that you find being able to limit chipmunks in your garden more important than the lives of the native species. Doesn't it ever feel like you are drawing the native wildlife into your ambush of a garden for your cat?


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I didn't think this thread would evolve around cats. I was being facetious in the title. HOWEVER...my wildlife is supremely important to me. I feed the birds seed and suet, I have 14 birdbaths, much brush , many trees and two ponds, and nesting boxes. I would never let the cats out after I invite these creatures to my yard...and yes that includes chipmunks.

However, first and foremost, the health and well being of my cats are my reason for never letting them outside. I live on a busy street, so cars are the number one threat as well as a loose dogs, malicious boys or cat haters. It's not like I live in a small trailer or one room flat. They have a big house and basement to run around in plus 50 windows to look outside. They are my fur kids and I try to keep them safe.


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  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 20, 13 at 13:57

Outdoor cats decimate bird populations, are preyed on by coyotes, crap in flower and vegetable beds, sand boxes and even lawns, get run over by cars, may be shot by neighbors or others who do not appreciate them, and are exposed to feline AIDS and parasites like fleas and worms.

Other than that, no problem.

An outdoor cat at a house I visit more or less weekly first became attached to the current owner after they saw it outside, covered in oil and brought it in, cleaned it up.

It apparently had fallen into an oil drum.


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I consider the integrity of my dwelling, my food source, and even the other gardens to be more important than the lives of chipmunks, mice, voles, moles, rabbits, and the occasional bird. However, the rest of the property (1.25 acres) is designed to provide resources for other species and believe me all the above are quite abundant here despite an outdoor cat!

I have gone to great lengths to make the bird feeders, bird baths, and property as safe as possible for the birds. This means having clearance around these features, shrubbery for them to escape to, and limbing up trees and shrubs so the cat can't hide, and the hawks can't sneak up too. Is it perfect? No. It's an attempt at balance.

This is my last post on this subject on this thread. I didn't want to digress this much. It annoys me when it happens on other topics. Maybe we could start a topic devoted to outdoor cats.


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bboy..I found a cute little tabby cat floating dead in one of my ponds a few years ago. Apparently he was trying to kill my tame frog. I called the police, and he came and took it away. I said I felt sorry for the owner who will never know what happened to his cat. Policeman said .."I don't. Cats should be kept indoors. We have a law for them running loose as well as dogs"


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Lily I am amazed you can leave your door open. If my cat sees a door open he is going to run out. We have to take extra care to make sure he is far away from the door when we leave and enter. It is amazing he does not get out more than he does we have to be very vigilant. He was never raised as a outdoor cat but he loves to run out there for a few minutes and run back in.

He does not kill mouse when he finds one he brings them to you alive. He always try to hold them as loosely in his mouth as possible which is why he looses them so often.


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Marquest, I don't deliberately leave my door open, but there have been times. Once husband went out the side door assuming I was behind him. I went out the back door and we went to the store. When we came home our side door was wide open which was scary since there is no storm door...just this old 1720 door(gotten from a Lancaster County farmhouse). One cat was on the welcome mat, two more were standing there looking out, and I freaked out about the last one until I saw her snoozing in the sunroom.

But that said I did have one who wanted out. Louie, the orange tiger ,used to try to bolt every time someone opened the door. My daughter has one that really tries hard to get out and seldom makes it.


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  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Mon, Jan 21, 13 at 1:16

Saw a clip tonight of a cat using a Shiatsu massage unit.


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  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Mon, Jan 21, 13 at 13:27

It was a home video shown on TV, by the way, not some contrived (fake) internet thing. There would of course be no point in mentioning that here. The cat was sitting in a chair, partly under a blanket, and holding its head against the massage unit, which was in an upright position.


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