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Do you believe in demonic possession?

Posted by tobr24u z6 RI (My Page) on
Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 4:30

According to Harper's Index for January 68% of Republicans do! How about you...?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

But of course, and they call them liberals!


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

I would agree when it comes to Rahm Emanuel, if he really is a liberal...


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Wow. That is nasty.


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Yes. Rahm is nasty.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Goodness no. There is no god, there are no demons.


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No I don't. Just mental illness and physical illness that causes mental problems.

I read once that the "possessions" of the young girls in the Salem witch trials was due to rye grain infected with fungus.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Well, there could be demonic spirits out there in ether, and many ill and hateful minds who possibly could be influenced by these spirits. Who knows?

I think that reason and science play a much more important role in the human world, although people seem to be more fascinated with a bizarro panoply of God(s), religions, ghosts, angels, demons, Armageddons, etc.

Frankly, battling one's OWN demons seems to be a pursuit that would be more than enough to keep most people busy.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Although I did not used to believe that, I do.

I think it is possible that some of what we label "mental illness" is in fact demonic possession, or more accurately, "evil."


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

No, I do not believe in demonic possession.


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people seem to be more fascinated with a bizarro panoply of God(s), religions, ghosts, angels, demons, Armageddons, etc.

Too much of America lost in the bubble of Hollywoodland--which supplies the drama and adrenalin missing in the real world and their dull everyday lives.

Kate


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Nope.

However, I do believe in genetic or environmental damage to the brain's amygdala, which affects the development of a social conscience in a rare subset of people -- which amounts to the same behavior typified by the religious as "possessed" or "evil". The difference being in how one approaches strategies for a cure or, lacking that, a rigorous mitigation of the behaviors.

It does not surprise me that many conservatives believe in possession, because looking at undesirable human behavior in that light allows a society to write off the mentally ill in clear conscience -- something that has often been apparent in certain Republican political platforms. As with the poor, the mentally ill are left to fall back on their own devices and/or finances and/or family. Look at the recent kerfuffle over Sandy Hook: there is no real conservative call for better and more comprehensive mental health coverage (that I've read, anyways), just calls to put the mentally ill on a "list" and/or increase gun ownership in order to better kill the mentally ill.

Perhaps I'm being unfair?


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Did you watch the Denver Broncos' secondary collapse against the Ravens?

Demonic possession is the only explanation I can find.


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lol David!


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Perhaps I'm being unfair?

I don't think so.


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I think the human tendency to be superstitious was here long before Hollywood or the Republican party, and that it's more likely these profit-driven entities are capitalizing on that tendency.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Posted by circuspeanut 5 (My Page) on
Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 9:58

Nope.

However, I do believe in genetic or environmental damage to the brain's amygdala, which affects the development of a social conscience in a rare subset of people -- which amounts to the same behavior typified by the religious as "possessed" or "evil". The difference being in how one approaches strategies for a cure or, lacking that, a rigorous mitigation of the behaviors.

It does not surprise me that many conservatives believe in possession, because looking at undesirable human behavior in that light allows a society to write off the mentally ill in clear conscience -- something that has often been apparent in certain Republican political platforms. As with the poor, the mentally ill are left to fall back on their own devices and/or finances and/or family. Look at the recent kerfuffle over Sandy Hook: there is no real conservative call for better and more comprehensive mental health coverage (that I've read, anyways), just calls to put the mentally ill on a "list" and/or increase gun ownership in order to better kill the mentally ill.

Perhaps I'm being unfair?

*

Yes. Very.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 10:30

Just another way to be intellectually lazy. It's hard to admit there are things you can't explain or that you don't have easy answers for.... requires humility, makes the "world" seem too out of control... easier to say "Look! Demons!" than to investigate, explore, ponder, debate... sometimes rational explanations leading to viable solutions require heavy intellectual lifting that some can't be bothered with... Look! Demons!


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Bob Larsons my favorite con artist doing this Hallelujah. He's got thousands of believers from the Cabbage Patch Nation.
He's been on Lots of shows Here he exorcises a HOMO!
You KIN git his kits awn line!

Here is a link that might be useful: ARRRRGH!


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That is one frightening statistic.


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labrea, those are the ones we put in the stupid category of evil walks among us.


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No, I don't. I know the Vatican does. As do some fundamentalist sects.

Esh, I think I recall an episode of a PBS show a few years ago that debunked the theory that ergot poisoning, caused by a fungus that contaminates rye and contains LSD, was the basis for the events at Salem in the 1690s. I am not positive, though, but if so, it was either Nova or Secrets of the Dead, and I recall they dug up some bone fragments and tested for LSD and Ergotamine and the tests were negative. BUT, I also seem to recall that the samples tested quite high in lead from the use of pewter dishware. Lead also affects thought and behavior.

OK, I have to qualify my primary answer -- overall, no demonic possession IMHO. But, I swear my Mastercard is possessed, and it makes me do bad things. This morning, the local Meijer has a super clearance on men's work boots and hikers, I ended up buying 10 pairs, mostly Sketchers, Avia, and Wolverine. It MADE me! ;-) Well, ok, in my defense, they were 70% off, so most were around $20 a pair now, can't beat that, I will have plenty of recreational shoes for hiking and walking for the foreseeable future. And a really nice varsity-style Michigan State jacket for $20.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

No. I would be more inclined to say that you're talking about mental or psychological issues presenting in certain people. Demonic things are religious based.


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ALot of people, years ago, were either awestruck, terrified, or laughed their a$$ off watching a little girl's head spin around and projectile vomit pea soup. What many DON'T realize is that was based on a true story.

Demonic possession is very real. THat's not to say anyone you don't like is demonically possessed. But I've seen way too much to know it's real.


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The Man has made a fortune praying on neurosis!
I think the repossessed rate is high but then again what kind of follow up is there! Documentation even among the Long Established Churches is sketchy at best!
Years ago I read Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil a rather frightening book for a young impressionable seeker! Then later I read Fordham Universities Michael Cuneo's accounts that Martin's accounts could not be verified & that a Franciscan expert had no idea what Martin was referring to.

Then you have all the Pentecostal style casting out and & from an outsider this appears to be hysteria & there may indeed be some kind of shift. What I see for the most part though are pathetic individuals supposedly possessed by supernatural powers and all they come across as being is odd theatrical or worthy of pity!

Get me a Demon who has winning lottery numbers or the burial place of Jimmy Hoffa & I might believe.
Other than that it Hokum a spiritual Carnival!

I never underestimate the power of belief even the great faker Marjoe claimed that he had inexplicable healing's every now & then at his spiritual sideshows.
There is Possession & you hear less about obsession from
from Latin obsidere (to besiege)!
Many cultures possession is seen as a positive the spirit temporarily occupies a shaman or priest bringing the benefits or messages of the other world.
"hit with the Spirit hallelujah"
These culture's appointed people are temporary Channels of a spirit that occupies them.
Rather than inspired or driven mad by the obsessive varieties "the Daemon" "The Muse" late co opted under Christianity to demons! The Idea of an inspiring muse was frowned upon remember the muses would have been considered idols benefactors of heathen faiths or competing story lines about benefits & rewards.

So what we have today is a lot of Holy..Wood a dash of scripture a little I read an article in the Reader's Digest & of Course US brand of distilled quasi theater religion carried down to us from the early Revival Shows!

This post was edited by labrea on Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 13:27


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Jodi, I'm very glad to see you participating! I was afraid you had found greener pastures for yourself.

So Demi, then when some people do very , very violently bad thing while diagnosed with diseased brain, you would still say that in some selected cases following your personal guidelines of what constitutes demonic posession, it would work for you if the accused told you, "The devil made me do it!" ?

In that case, there could be no consequence whatsoever, remember, because the person was forced into the act by an entity. The whole thing was beyond his/ her control.

You couldn't even force a physical confinement of any sort if the person displayed no further actions that would be considered by law a threat to society.

You could only punish the entity.

That's a trial I would enjoy attending! I wonder what the entity would look like? What would be his it's plea? What would the movie and book rights go for?
Who would star as the movie version of the entity if the entity itself was not interested in taking on the role?

Jack Nicholson could play it quite nicely if you want it played with broad strokes.
I would prefer the wonderful English actor with the quiet physicality who starred in 'Silence Of The Lambs'.

He is so good at that style of acting that he could perhaps even make a believer out of me!


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"The Devil made me do it!" - it always worked for Geraldine (Flip Wilson's alter ego in the early 70's).


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Other than that it Hokum a spiritual Carnival!

Amen, labrea.

Affirming demonic possession: Too many are willing to practice neurology and psychiatry without a license.


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  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 13:30

So much for personal responsibility and making the right choices..... once possessed all bets are off.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

kwoods raises an interesting point.

For those who believe in demonic possession: What causes the possession? Can it afflict anyone? Can it happen at any time? Can one be rid of the possession on one's own or is outside intervention necessary?


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Now for some US sects usually regional affairs THE POPE is the Great Satan (adversary) still for other he can perform an exorcism without even meaning to. (SUPERSTAR)

"Pope Benedict unwittingly performed an exorcism of two men possessed by the Devil in the very heart of the Vatican, according to the Catholic Church's best-known exorcist, Father Gabriele Amorth."

He described how they trembled and how their teeth chattered.
When one of the assistants asked Giovanni to control himself, he said "I am not Giovanni" in a voice that was not his own, Father Amorth claimed.
As soon as the Pope stepped down from the "Popemobile' the two men flung themselves to the floor.
"They banged their heads on the ground. The Swiss Guards watched them but did nothing," the priest wrote.
"Giovanni and Marco started to wail at the same time, they were lying on the floor, howling.
"They were trembling, slobbering, working themselves into a frenzy.
"The Pope watched from a distance. He raised an arm and blessed the four of them. For the possessed it was like a furious jolt - a blow to their whole bodies - to the extent that they were thrown three metres backwards," he continued.
"They stopped howling but they cried uncontrollably."
Father Amorth, who claims to have conducted thousands of exorcisms, wrote: "It is no mystery that the Pope's acts and words can enrage Satan...that simply the presence of the Pope can sooth and in some way help the possessed in their fight against the one who possesses them."
Federico Lombardi, the Vatican's spokesman, disputed the account, saying Benedict was not aware of the men's afflictions and had not intended to carry out an exorcism.
Father Amorth is a controversial figure whose outspoken views have embarrassed the Vatican in the past.
In November he branded yoga as "evil", claiming that it leads to a worship of Hinduism and other Eastern religions based on "a false belief in reincarnation"

Got to be careful of that there YOGA!
It gets to be a PHONE GAME jumble handed down through tha ages DAEMON (a beneficial spirit) become demon (ohhhh I'm scared throw some water on me)
Spiritus Latin for breath get's hitched to demons & devils also whatever convenient to sell a relic, cast a spell, convict a local person to steal their property !

You have Ann Glover supposedly speaking in a demonic language at Salem. It was lat & Irish!


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

kwoods raises an interesting point.

Unfortunately, there are many so called Christians who would agree with her-- it's a get out of jail free card in the eyes of "their flock". This is not something to be messed with, or taken lightly.

For those who believe in demonic possession: What causes the possession?

It can come from may sources. Sometimes, it's nothing the person invited deliberately or knowingly, such as moving into a home where for whatever reason a "portal" exists, or a demon has become attached. Sometimes, it's something like using a ouiga board, or other so called "familiar" objects (those which invite demons and give them "the right" so to speak). You want me out of a building? Produce a ouija board. I'm outa there.

Can it afflict anyone?

Yes. Including animals.

Can it happen at any time?

Yes, but it must be by an invitation, whether that invite be deliberate or by accident.

Can one be rid of the possession on one's own or is outside intervention necessary?

I'm not sure. Let me put it this way-- I've never heard of a possession being stopped without intercession.


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Why would God permit this if he really is all powerful? What would the lesson to be learned by allowing a supernatural being to remove free will from one of God's people? Why would God create this evil entity?
I'm not following this at all and don't understand where all the guidelines come from?


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According to the Bible, Lucifer WASN'T created as an evil spirit. He was originally an arch-angel, like Gabriel, or Michael. As for the questions, I'm going to pre-empt my answer by stating that I don't HAVE all the answers, but rather my answers here come from my own understanding.

We're here to learn. That's the basis of all of it. We've been given free will so as to make our own choices. We can't learn if we don't have the choice of right and wrong. That explains the "allowance" for evil to exist. For every action, good or bad, there is a consequence. Some of those consequences can be changed, or rectified, while some are hard lines, cut and dried, and that usually happens where we affect others, rather than ourselves, which is how it can happen to someone who never did anything to deserve it. We're told that in the afterlife, it'll all make sense, and I really do believe that.


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God doesn't allow demons to remove our free will mylab. Our free will allows it. Demons are fallen angels who were cast out with Lucifer. They have no power over us except the power that we give to them.


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but it must be by an invitation, whether that invite be deliberate or by accident.

What would be an invitation? Thought, word, deed? Of what type?


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Labrea mentioned Father Amorth, the Vatican's chief Exorcist. Interesting article from the telegraph.uk linked below.

The farther away I get from my childhood's faith and all the strange things that THEN made up this body of belief, it strikes me now devils and possessions make an interesting narrative to weave into what some can't grasp as products of the actions of one's own (unless diminished by defect) free will.

Surely we humans cause some ills by misusing our free will. Collectively we're free to, say, pollute the planet, but there will be natural consequences for this recklessness. This kind of sporadic - now becoming more and more frequent - evil doesn't visit everyone equally; a little chunk of the world at a time.

I suppose it would be simple to hold that God created a perfect universe and we spoiled it by exercsing our newly discovered free will to sin. So God decided to leave and the world fell into decay. And the rest, as they say, is human history.

Here is a link that might be useful: Some traditions just die hard


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bill_vincent wrote,

ALot of people, years ago, were either awestruck, terrified, or laughed their a$$ off watching a little girl's head spin around and projectile vomit pea soup. What many DON'T realize is that was based on a true story.

It was based on an actual series of exorcisms. The events you mention did not occur according to some participants, and the subject (Ronald Hunkeler of Cottage City, Maryland and future NASA scientist) was a well-known troublemaker (and accomplished long-distance spitter) in the community. His closest friends believed he was faking.

To use that story as evidence of demonic posession is absurd.


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SOrry, but I've watched A&E documentaries on the basis for the movie, as well as other cases, and that movie WAS based on a little girl, and although there was, as always, embellishments, in the movie, most of the basic premises were accurate to the facts.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

What would be an invitation? Thought, word, deed? Of what type?

It could be any of those, as well as those mentioned in my post above. Praying to spirits, earth forces, etc.. worship or idyllic ("graven") images. The one that always comes to mind is, as with many, the four women chanting around a pentagram. THat would be en example of inviting thru thought, word, and deed.


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bill_vincent wrote,

SOrry, but I've watched A&E documentaries on the basis for the movie, as well as other cases, and that movie WAS based on a little girl, and although there was, as always, embellishments, in the movie, most of the basic premises were accurate to the facts.

Completely false on all counts. This is terribly sloppy of you, Bill. Please correct your misstatements after doing just a few seconds of research.


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The catch 22 crowd claims you should have been more vigilant & so anything the devil made you do is your fault! The new apostolic hoot and holler crowd claim the statue of liberty is a demonic representation as is Columbia on top of the senate. This all feeds one or 2 things insecurity & anxiety! I can't possibly be this bad I must be possessed.
If I were an alien and read of a super being who created a world populated with beings in it's own likeness that then drowned almost all of them because this user being was moody at best then impregnated one of the survivors daughters with his son so he could have it killed to free people from a concept I would think you were all possessed !
After the reformation a lot of great art was destroyed by a lot of possessed zealots they were possessed of a new idea & purity a reformation from the evil of Rome which in turn was burning these creatures who were breaking their sacred vows to holy mother Church. This crap gets murky but they all managed to kill a lot of people ( for goodness sake)
They were possessed by goodness/hogwash
The Taliban blew up ancient statues of buddah! The Christians built atop aztec & Mayan temples the roman pantheon is a catholic church!
The egos of so many wannabees can't handle the dreamtide waking impulses of that other concept the I'd there lives your demons for the most part!
These apostolic cretins would destroy the statue of liberty & Columbia they are like the evangelicals who point to Marian devotion & call it idolatry! Igot my first Queen of heaven speech from a whacked out Jesus jumper when I was 14. She also said that Catholics referred to holy mother church were worshipping the goddess (a female demon) yak yak
Careful of ecstasy could get you a sainthood or burnt at the stake like Joan of arc. Same catholic rules different political causes.


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worship or idyllic ("graven") images

Graven images are a sticky question given that fundamentalists believe statues of Catholic saints to be graven images. Offer a prayer to Santa Rita and risk being possessed? Or does graven image refer to non-Christian images?

What would be evidence of demonic possession?


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Circuspeanut, you wrote:

'It does not surprise me that many conservatives believe in possession, because looking at undesirable human behavior in that light allows a society to write off the mentally ill in clear conscience -- something that has often been apparent in certain Republican political platforms. As with the poor, the mentally ill are left to fall back on their own devices and/or finances and/or family. Look at the recent kerfuffle over Sandy Hook: there is no real conservative call for better and more comprehensive mental health coverage (that I've read, anyways), just calls to put the mentally ill on a "list" and/or increase gun ownership in order to better kill the mentally ill.

Perhaps I'm being unfair?"

I don't think you are unfair, or wrong. Put me on a list, I'm sure they would just love to do that. Kill me? Well, I kinda wonder some days ....

Increasing the weapons stash in the US would better kill all of us, diagnoses or not.

But, hey, it's all good. If someone pops me in the head at Macy's some day, you know, I died for the 2nd Amendment. I'm sure the NRA would appreciate my sacrifice. (I don't know why I keep using Macy's as an example, other than I can see it from the office building at the end of the hall, LOL).


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  • Posted by kwoods Cold z7 Long Is (My Page) on
    Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 15:22

Spooky! I didn't realize there were so many rules... and, who knew The Excorcist was a documentary?

My daughter just got a fat scholarship to a local catholic high school.... now I'm having second thoughts.... hope I make the right "choices" dontcha know.


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Anybody seen any around here?

ole joyful


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Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, "Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many wonders?" and then I will declare to them, "I never knew you: Depart from me, you who practice wickedness."

Gee there's always that after inter oves locum parser et ab hadis me sequestra!
Just something I picked up from hanging around the Quakers !
Baaaah!


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Bill, if you believe it - it must be true, at least for you. The only thing real in the movie was the "famous" stairway at 3600 Prospect St. in Georgetown.

I do know there are some but not all that many bona fide, Church sanctioned, exorcists scattered across the globe. They don't advertise their "craft".

In today's era of me and my own can't face life's personal disenfranchisement, the Church is beseiged with requests to get rid of possessing demons.

I think some schooling was done - not to revive the practice - but to assist the clergy in determining who might benefit from an exorcism from those needing psychiatric or, at the very least, some pastoral care.


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Personally I think that the CROSS is a graven image.

""You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth...You shall not bow down to them or serve them"

Sure sounds like a graven image to me! But it's an "okay" graven image because Christians say so. (WTF???)


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Joe, I got my first intro to a wack job at age 5, in Manhattan Beach N.Y.,when there was a base there where my father was stationed and we lived.
I attended a Catholic kindergarten run by nuns, I don't know the order, I only know they scared me badly although the only actual memories I have of them are good ones.

There was the priest's rectory close to the convent.

My best friend and I were no longer allowed to play together when her mother found out that I attended that school. It seems that she had it on good authority that there was a tunnel connecting the rectory and the convent and all kinds of nastiness went on at night.

My mother was furious that she said all this in front of me. I didn't understand the implication, of course, was made to feel that I had done something terribly nasty, and evidently cried for days. My parents were stuck with having to *not* give me understandable answers about the tunnel or my place in it and I was stuck having to go to the place that woman said was so evil. Those were not the days when parents tended to have frank talks about sex, it would not have been considered good parenting and at 5 years of age that accusation wasn't understandable anyway.

Hateful nuts obsessed with sin can do real harm, I could never know how her little girl felt about it all or the damage inflicted over the years due to her mother's willingness to believe the worst or the sinfulness of others.. I only saw her from a distance down the street from that point on.

I can still remember the fumes of disgust that woman aimed at my mother and I and how ugly/nasty/guilty I felt as a result of the incident.

I heard that same theory from the Dr's wife who lived across the street when I was 17 years old, she asked my mother and I if it was true. I burst out laughing and my mother told me to stop being so rude but there was just the slightest curve of a smile to her eyes, it was a delicious moment between us.

There was a lot of sexual ugliness going on with priests during that time as it turned out, and priests and nuns probably did on occasion have an affair as all were human beings, but I really doubt here were any tunnels built in order for orgies to take place.


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"Jodi, I'm very glad to see you participating! I was afraid you had found greener pastures for yourself."

Thank you, Mylab... while I'm sure there are greener pastures to be found, no... I've simply grown tired of the constant slashing and burning, the bickering for no real reason over the same things, covering the same ground over and over with little to no reform, enlightenment, or compromise. I certainly appreciate those who bring honesty, facts, and reality to the table, but find it exceedingly more tedious to read the same expected responses from the same expected sources. It too often seems an exercise in futility. I'm sure you can understand.

As to the OP, I think Circuspeanut said it well. There hasn't been any talk of better managing and caring for the mentally disturbed or damaged within our society, and that is what may have been the catalyst in many recent events... much more so than dumping it all on "gun control" and calling it political.

I would also agree with Circuspeanut's "It does not surprise me that many conservatives believe in possession, because looking at undesirable human behavior in that light allows a society to write off the mentally ill in clear conscience -- something that has often been apparent in certain Republican political platforms."


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Do I believe in demonic possession?

Only in the case of Rush Limbaugh. Definitely possessed by something........


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Almost every Biblical scholar know the so called Lucifer Passage refers to the King of Babylon.
In fact Lucifer is never mentioned in the old testament.
The Midrash has lots of discussions about angels and how they debated if Man should be part of Creation.
Curious also in the early Church The Morning or Day star was not an uncommon name associated with Christ.
Skimming through this stuff year after year is like shoots & ladders one Saint interpretation of a text along with a local myth & a current popularly held belief carries down centuries.
Paul even warns titus "Paul warned Titus to "pay no attention to Jewish myths"
There is a notion of angels that didn't fall but ones that descended to marry with the pretty women they saw this comes out of ENOCH but that descent later becomes a fall & that was a no no creating the Nephelim.
Ya gotta Love Joseph Campbell & Mythology in general to wade through this stuff!

Even the dead sea scroll have some writing about the angels but there is tons of what is called pseudographia from that time which has cross bred for century after century transcription after translation to the fine white powder snorted by the faithful & the fitful around the world.
In the First & 2nd centuries the Book of ENOCH was hot a best seller.
Sort of the way Revelations is inexplicably popular today.
(it isn't after all the word of Jesus & comes off as rather fantastical)


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Anybody seen any of 'em hangin' around here?

ole joyful


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 16:22

No I do not.


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I will say no BUT The Exorcist did scare me. Granted I was 7 or 8 years old hiding (alone) behind a corner while my mother watched it which led me to abandon a kid I was babysitting when I was 12 because after she went to bed she started screaming and banging her body all over her bed when she went to sleep. I got scared and sat outside the rest of the night (lol) - had to explain it to the parents and got a "Oh, that is her nightly ritual." ?????? What? This is where I believe there is some imbalance going on or something else.


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Man can do evil, be tempted by evil, etc. IMO one example is believing in demonic possession today.

Now many people with unbalanced brain chemistry lead quite normal lives with the help of medication. "Possession" would have been a logical 'diagnosis' until quite recently -- and some people would have made their livings because of that popularly-held belief.


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  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 17:08

Chisue my DH told the story of a man in his community that the old folks said was "slapped by a haint" .. looking back my DH realized the poor man had a stroke which twisted his face but belief/superstition had a stronger hold than science.

Seems that belief is still alive and well today ...


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

  • Posted by vgkg 7-Va Tidewater (My Page) on
    Thu, Jan 24, 13 at 18:10

Kacee, I was thinking the same thing about Limbaugh...domie. If he's not demonically possessed I'm sure that Satan is still very proud of him.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and our growth of knowledge has quite a ways to go before catching up with the mysteries of the universe. "Demonic" might one day be defined as a fear of the unknown, sometimes remedied via burning at the stake.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

denninmi, thanks for the update on the fungus role in Salem witch trials.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Everyone Knows who Paul's Man of sin was the anti Christ in every age some idiot called some one they didn't like the anti Christ.

"I know that you live in the city where Satan has his throne, yet you have remained loyal to me. You refused to deny me even when Antipas, my faithful witness, was martyred among you there in Satan's city.
Except they have long forgotten the zealots who seized the Temple in Jerusalem and committed all manner of atrocities.
No it's like the people who have announced the rapture and all the other who have insisted their interpretations & calculations were correct.
So Hitler, Napoleon, Stalin Attila these wer all "Oh yes this is the man of Sin"

John of Gischala was a Zealot rebel against the Romans described by Josephus he is attributed with capturing some of the Leaders of Jerusalem even the Temple treasurer Antipas. The rebels considered these leaders to be in collusion with Rome and Slit their throats. They discontinued what they considered to be the corrupt lineage of the priest hood and appointed their own priests. This John is the original anti Christ many at the time of the rebellion against the Romans thought him the Messiah.
The idea of the above is a lot of substance get lost & 2 or 3 words handed down for centuries till a new zealot breaths new fire & meaning into ideas & words.
None of you nor I can know the shame & loathing that went with loaning money for interest it was about as low as you could go in Christendom for at least a thousand years.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

I don't think Limbaugh is possessed by a demon (well he probably has plenty of his own demons inside), but more likely he is suffering from early stages of dementia, maybe from chronic substance abuse.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

It will be sad day indeed when all his slop spills out on the public stage! It may be untreated addiction & hubris on a grand scale but even with all my loathing of this creature there's no other worldly happening there it's all pretty mundane stuff on a gross scale


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

From Wiki:

Aspects of the novel were inspired by an exorcism performed on a young boy from Cottage City, Maryland in 1949 by the Jesuit priest, Fr. William S. Bowdern, who formerly taught at both St. Louis University and St. Louis University High School. Hunkeler's Catholic family was convinced the child's aggressive behavior was attributable to demonic possession, and called upon the services of Father Walter Halloran to perform the rite of exorcism.[12] Father Halloran maintained until his death in 2005 that he never witnessed the boy display any of the supernatural behavior portrayed in the film; no foreign languages, changes in tone of voice, aversion to holy objects, unusual strength, vomiting or urinating, or unusual markings on the boy's body.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

jerzeegirl wrote,

From Wiki:
Aspects of the novel were inspired by an exorcism performed on a young boy from Cottage City, Maryland in 1949 by the Jesuit priest, Fr. William S. Bowdern, who formerly taught at both St. Louis University and St. Louis University High School. Hunkeler's Catholic family was convinced the child's aggressive behavior was attributable to demonic possession, and called upon the services of Father Walter Halloran to perform the rite of exorcism.[12] Father Halloran maintained until his death in 2005 that he never witnessed the boy display any of the supernatural behavior portrayed in the film; no foreign languages, changes in tone of voice, aversion to holy objects, unusual strength, vomiting or urinating, or unusual markings on the boy's body.

Bill, lead the way and show the other conservatives how a con with integrity handles it when he has discovered he posted a misstatement.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

terrene, I had the same thought a while back about Rush. All of that oxycontin abuse could not have helped the old neural pathways.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

About the forbidden "graven images," I was raised in a mainstream protestant church and taught that that refers to any image (statue) portraying God, Jesus, or any other supernatural being (pagan god, etc.). The teaching was that the cross itself wasnt' a "graven image" (nor is it "worshipped"), but protestants don't show Jesus on the cross because an image of Jesus would constitute a "graven image."

Other than that, I know little about this topic--except that I do not believe in demons and devils. I turn to psychology for explanations of why--although I love mythology. To me, it is a metaphorical/poetic form of pre-psychology -- earliest attempts to explain human psychology by use of analogy and parable and narrative example.

Kate


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Um, no I don't believe in demonic possession. The statistic of 68% in the OP shocked me. Really? Not possible. Nobody can actually believe that, could they?

Then I read the rest of the post. Based on HT, it seems to be more like 100% of conservatives.

All I can say is wow.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

This question would have to explained to me before I could answer.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Demonic possession is held by many belief systems to be the control of an individual by a malevolent supernatural being.
That Wikki Take on it.

There used to be a prayer at the end of the Mass imploring Michael The Arch Angel to defend us against the wickedness & snares of the devil & the evil spirits who roamed the world seeking the Destruction of Souls?

Pope Leo XIII wrote it after having seeing an apparition while saying Mass. He saw Michael & The Devil Battling . Hmmn.
He was one of the better popes & is known for Rerum Novarum
which addresses the evil of capital & labor.

""Let the working man and the employer make free agreements, and in particular let them agree freely as to the wages; nevertheless, there underlies a dictate of natural justice more imperious and ancient than any bargain between man and man, namely, that wages ought not to be insufficient to support a frugal and well-behaved wage-earner. If through necessity or fear of a worse evil the workman accept harder conditions because an employer or contractor will afford him no better, he is made the victim of force and injustice"

I still have a tile with a Michael on it a friend Made it for me years ago when I used to collect Michael Images.
My Favorite is Raphael's depiction.
Sounds like the Pope had a little ergot poisoning perhaps a bad communion wafer! (sorry the devil made me say it)

Then there's the famous possession of 16 Ursuline Nuns in Loudun France. (Hoot) Lots of public exorcisms went on there even supposedly a hand signed pact with the devil signed by Satand & a few other Demons. MON DEIU incroyable! Preist burnt at the stake all manner of OOHH and AHHS an oh my's!

Though it's old and really out of fashion no discussion could be complete without that good old piece of Hogoblinry which has given us so many Cheesy references.

THE

Malleus Maleficarum.... ohhhhhhhhh!

Thousands went to the stake on it's expert information!

Now the Great & Holy church said the book was a crock a few years after it was published but that did not stop it's use

Men & women could become drawn to witchcraft. Women more so because they were more susceptible to demonic temptations through weaknesses of their gender. It was believed that they were weaker in faith and more carnal than men. Oh baby, oh baby!

Here is a link that might be useful: Heres The Long Form


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

I was going to mention Huxley's Devils of Loudun -- perhaps more power and politics (and a p.o.'d Richelieu) than demonic possession. I remember being horrified while reading his account of the craziness.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Let's all carry the graven image thing to the Nth degree - how many of you (generic) anti- idolators have a creche set on display for the holidays?

Do you adore it?

Not just relegated to statuary; how about the Last Supper on velvet so prominent in many dining rooms. Or the omni-present paintings of The Good Shepherd or the endless Agonies in the Garden so beloved in Christiandom. Are those adored?

I suppose before the great iconoclast movement, image veneration got carried to extremes, but it's inconceivable that any one - except the most grossly stupid peasant, could have thought that an image could hear prayers, or do much of anything for the supplicant.

This post was edited by duluthinbloomz4 on Fri, Jan 25, 13 at 0:47


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

A quick search of the Prophet Google shows that - at least on American websites - Christians cannot be possessed. Only unbelievers. So that's ok, then.

Presumably that is why most conservative Christians believe in demonic possession - because they are not.

'Below is a partial list of forms of occult activities and movements that are Satan's domain and should be shunned by everyone, especially Christians. Failure to do so may have devastating consequences.
Acupuncture
Astrology
Biological Feedback
Black Mass
Blood Pacts
Charismatic Movements
Christian Science
Clairvoyance
Color Diagnosis
Conjuring Tricks
Cults
Death Magic
Drug Abuse
Fortunetelling and Soothsaying
Ghosts
Goblins and Elves
Group Suggestion
Healing Fanaticism
Homosexuality
Hypnotism
Iris Diagnosis
Levitation
Magic, Magic Charms
Meditation Metamorphosis
Ouija Board
Parapsychology
Peditherapy
Poltergeists
Pornography
Predictive Dreams
Rock Music
Rod and Pendulum
Satan Worship
Scientology
Sensitivity Training
Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses
Soul Force
Speaking in Tongues
Spirit of the Age
Spiritism
Spiritist Healing, Operations
Superstition
Transcendental Meditation
Translocation
Voodoo
Yoga'

Best wishes,
Jon

Here is a link that might be useful: Avoid goblins and elves, y'all


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Thank goodness alcohol didn't make the list!


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

  • Posted by ohiomom 3rdrockfromthesun (My Page) on
    Fri, Jan 25, 13 at 6:20

"should be shunned by everyone"

"goblins and elves"

Well now I will remember to avoid all the 'goblins and elves' running around :)


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Failure to do so may have devastating consequences.
Acupuncture

Acupuncture?

But even some health insurance plans cover this!

Rock music

Hmm, Paul Ryan and Rage Against the Machine...


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

What, we can dance and play cards? Bingo? Gambling? Can you say, "Good luck?" I guess 'speaking in tongues' could be possession by de debil or your god; it must depend on how the revivalist taking the collection plays it.

Citing Bible stories as 'proofs' is like depending on blood-letting and nostrums of the Middle Ages to cure illnesses. There's a *grain* of truth in most things.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Rock music? That reminds me that the generation that grew up on Elvis were repeatedly instructed by the dedicated fundamentalist types that he was devil-inspired.

Being a lover of Heart-break Hotel, I decided right then and there that I did not believe in devils.

Kate


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Wow, that list, I'm going down. Comfort in the fact that given how extensive it is everyone I know is going down with me:).


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Scripture says the only talking animal is the original wise ass belonging to BAALAM so careful with the kiddies in Disney World with talking animals & oh yeah GARDEN GNOMES.

More seriously there are jerks running around torturing children claiming they are possessed by demons. Sick fantasies of a an ill system!


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Richard, you obviously didn't read Jon's link...

This is #4 in the Five Paths to Demonic Possession:

"Use or become addicted to drugs or alcohol. Anything that alters one's senses and places him in a passive state can allow the entrance of devils. Many under the influence of drugs or alcohol have claimed to see demons or the Devil."

Tim Morton of Morton Publications wants to bestow the prestige of adding "Doctor" in front of your name.

Why futz around with the small stuff (like graduating from high school in less than seven years) especially because The Independent Institute of Advanced Degrees does not bestow the lower degrees such as Bachelor or Masters Degree because we believe you deserve the very best, the Highest Degree of Doctor.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Bill, lead the way and show the other conservatives how a con with integrity handles it when he has discovered he posted a misstatement.

Fctoman, I've already done that in another thread. Over here, if it were to happen again, I'd do it again. However it hasn't happened yet. I don't give a rats a$$ WHAT WIKI has to say about it. I know what I saw on that documentary, and I won't retract what I said. Right now, my work schedule is pretty screwy, but when I have the time, and really find the strong enough interest, I'll see if I can find that documentary and post a link to it.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

bill_vincent wrote,

Fctoman, I've already done that in another thread. Over here, if it were to happen again, I'd do it again. However it hasn't happened yet. I don't give a rats a$$ WHAT WIKI has to say about it. I know what I saw on that documentary, and I won't retract what I said. Right now, my work schedule is pretty screwy, but when I have the time, and really find the strong enough interest, I'll see if I can find that documentary and post a link to it.

From an interview with the author of "The Exorcist", William Peter Blatty:

"But I suspect that there might have been a somewhat less luminous basis for the power of "The Exorcist"'s argument for faith, which was the widespread and apparently rampant perception that the novel was based on a true story, the so-called "1949 case" of demonic possession of a young boy in Cottage City, Maryland. That perception was -- and is -- totally false. While writing the novel, the only facts that I had at hand were the classic symptoms of possession that had somehow remained an identical constant in every culture and in every part of the world going back to ancient Egyptian times.

The 1949 case was the novel's inspiration..." (emphases added)

Blatty himself says "The Exorcist"'s inspiration was the '49 case of supposed posession of a boy (Ronald Hunkeler), and that he didn't even draw on the details of that case -- or any particular case -- when he wrote the book.

I look forward to the link to that documentary.

This post was edited by Factotem on Fri, Jan 25, 13 at 12:20


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

I would say that what we're really talking about is superstition, unfounded beliefs, and paranoia. There's been no proof of gods or demons... these are man made notions based on illogical fears and/or ignorance... in my opinion.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Anyone got any warts...sure sign that you've been suckling demons at night!

What are the signs of having a demon?

Not sure what to think of the deliverance ministry?
Please take a moment to read
What the ministry of deliverance should be!
Here is a brief list of some of the areas in a persons life that a demon can affect. Please note that every time you find somebody struggling or facing one of the areas below, it's not necessarily a demon, but it's not uncommon to find a demon behind these things.

Compulsive sinning against your will: Addictions, uncontrollable anger, lust, urges to murder or commit suicide, etc.

Mental torment: Fear, depression, irrational heaviness in the soul, hearing voices in the mind, hearing auditable voices that nobody else hears, compulsive thoughts, insanity, mental illness, etc. Obsessive irrational worry is almost always a demon. People who are scared stiff over the unpardonable sin are in need of counseling and likely deliverance.

Emotional problems: Unable to get close to other people, sensing rejection for no reason, irrational emotional breakdowns, etc. Often more then just casting out demons is needed in this category, inner healing must also take place as well as tearing down strongholds.

Physical health problems: Arthritis, cancer, HIV, and a host of other illnesses are almost always caused by evil spirits. If it cannot be easily cured, then it's almost always a spirit that is causing it.

Occult powers or abilities: Anybody who can tell a fortune, lift an object through levitation, break a solid oak board with their hand, etc. using demonic powers needs a deliverance. Martial arts are known for using demonic powers to break boards, etc. Unnatural strength is a sign of demonic power, such as the man with the legion in the Bible.

Unnatural desires and feelings: Sexual attraction towards animals, unnatural sexual desires, unusually strong attractions towards somebody who is married, past lover, etc. can indicate soul ties and demonic bondage.

Experiencing the demonic: Most often (not always, but usually) when people are visited by demons, hearing them, seeing them, etc., they are in need of a deliverance.

Ancestors have similar problems: If both you and one or more of your ancestors have the same kind of problem(s), then there may be a generational spirit at work.

Obsessions: Driving interests in the occult, demons, and creatures of the dark such as wolves, owls, etc. can indicate a demonic bondage. Obsession with death is almost a sure sign of demonic bondage.

Compulsive behavior: Compulsive behavior such as cutting is a Biblical symptom of demonic bondage.

For a more in-depth list with scriptural backing, please see the teaching Do I have a Demon?

Here is a link that might be useful: Their ministries will set you free


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

I just came on this thread, and no I absolutely don't believe in demons. I've yet to decide on God. Perhaps one of my cats is occasionally possessed but no....I saw part of that Larsen video, and if anyone believes that garbage, well it wouldn't surprise me. Demographically if we took a study it would probably be more prevalent in the south among Conservative religious people.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

It IS a nice cop-out, isn't it?

I'm slow to recognize the truth in denninmi's quote from "Geraldine"(Flip Wilson). This could explain the belief as a denial of personal responsibility for yourself or another.

Perhaps my hair is possessed; I can't do a thing with it.


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RE: Do you believe in demonic possession?

Following up on K's droppings about liberals! So many of the Crazy Christians are raging on about the fly that landed on the president & are referring to him as lord of the flies ah there's joy in cabbage patch land!


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